Religion is bogus bogus bogus. Believe and don't ask questions. Sacrilege to ask questions.

@Mad_Max
The book mysteriously disappeared oh my sister handi work of my mum and sisters who think I have gone bonkers plus I have been derailed by some issues here on nairaland.
What I believe for now is the bible is 50 percent history 40 percent man's thought and 10 percent inspired.

Chrisbenogor:

@Mad_Max
The book mysteriously disappeared oh my sister handi work of my mum and sisters who think I have gone bonkers plus I have been derailed by some issues here on nairaland.
What I believe for now is the bible is 50 percent history 40 percent man's thought and 10 percent inspired.

Inspired by who?

Well jesus was in the bible I kinda like the guy.

Olumitide:

Religion is bogus bogus bogus. Believe and don't ask questions. Sacrilege to ask questions.

It all depends on which 'religion' you had in mind. I wonder why people already make up their minds even before they examine their own default assumptions. We (or should I speak for myself), I know that Christianity does not project the idea of 'believe and don't ask questions'. The question is whether the enquirer is willing to engage his presumptions honestly and intelligently.

Chrisbenogor:

@Mad_Max
The book mysteriously disappeared oh my sister handi work of my mum and sisters who think I have gone bonkers plus I have been derailed by some issues here on nairaland.
What I believe for now is the bible is 50 percent history 40 percent man's thought and 10 percent inspired.

They think you've gone bonkers? I had to laugh. Couldn't help it.

@Mad_Max
well after all that's said and done, is your friend any better now. I would suggest though that he start from the very begining and examine if he really believes that God exits because I think his trouble is reconcilling his idea of who most religions say God is. So the journey should start from there. Does God exist?

Chrisbenogor:

@Mad_Max
well after all that's said and done, is your friend any better now. I would suggest though that he start from the very begining and examine if he really believes that God exits because I think his trouble is reconcilling his idea of who most religions say God is. So the journey should start from there. Does God exist?

which of the gods?. . . . .

@mazaje
Lol , Personally I think he should start from the one he has beef with

I haven't asked for an update on the God he has issues with. His issues are there, but so are mine. I did indicate that those questions in the post are our queries combined. I want to know why Salvation is unfair and why it appears to be an accident of birth. He wants to know the rest. He's been following this thread,but since I've issues myself I'm not as confident as I used to be about things God-ish. I'm stunned to realise exactly how little Iknow for sure about the God I'm supposed to have faith in. Knowledge has to come first.It's a love relationship.Love your God with all your heart and all your soul. But you can't love someone you don't know and don't understand,can you? I don't know him. I've little first-hand dealing with him, but plenty of second-hand experiences. But other's people's faith and other people's knowledge cannot save me, can it? They certainly won't save him,and he's a cynic to boot.

@max
I dey feel you jo me I no understand too. I finally found that book oh, read the first 4 chapters and became even more confused, I asked m_nwankwo some questions and I am awaiting his reply. Now book wey I leave for my bed don disappear before I come back from work which kind wahala be this!

Your sisters and your mum.

how is Salvation unfair?

Jesus died for everyone na?

@Gamine
Eh all of we? If na so no wahala na make everybody for religion forum go sleep why we dey worry we self

Yes o.

Why you dey worry yasef.

@max
He finally sent me the answers to my questions, and maybe you will see the light in what he tried to explain, let me know if you want forwarded copies of our discourse.

Chrisbenogor:

@max
He finally sent me the answers to my questions, and maybe you will see the light in what he tried to explain, let me know if you want forwarded copies of our discourse.

You have to ask? Where is it already?

@max
They are the guys private views oh not so sure if he want them posted on here, send me your private email or just create one for this purpose so you don't get spamed, I will send them to you and we can analyse them on the side too.
Cheers

Chris! Spill it already. They're his religious views, not his private views. I sort of get what you mean, though. You might ask if he minds having his views posted here. You assume he'll mind, but what if he doesn't?

Mad_Max:

Chris! Spill it already. They're his religious views, not his private views. I sort of get what you mean, though. You might ask if he minds having his views posted here. You assume he'll mind, but what if he doesn't?

I do not want email exchanges between me and any enquirer posted here. If enquirers want my answers to be posted on nairaland, they should ask the questions on nairaland. If however the questions or issues are sent to my email, the answers will also be by email. Best wishes.

@max
Hope the post above answers your questions, you know them hawks are around waiting to pounce.

Na real wah be dis one.

Mad_Max:

Na real wah be this one.

You don see am finish

Saw this at http://biblestandard.com/questions/QA_d.htm
Intriguing answers,though Ecclesiastes isn't strictly scripture: They're merely the observations of the wisest man who ever lived on life and other things. That's why some of the things he writes contradicts what God himself says.Eccl reads like poetry and wisdom is to be found there,which is probably why it was included in the Bible. So I am always wary of teaching that are based on Eccl. But it gives food for thought on the Fairness of Salvation question, and furnishes its own answer.

Dead—The Unsaved.
Question (1972)—Does the Bible hold out hope for any of the unsaved dead?

Answer.—We answer Yes to the question, first, because of the promises of God (Gen. 12: 3; 18: 18; Isa. 60: 14, 15; 29: 18, 24; Luke 2: 10, 34; John 1: 9); second, the Ransom (John 12: 32, 33; Rom. 5: 18, 19; 1 Tim. 2: 4-6); third, the forgivableness of all sins, except sins against the Holy Spirit (Mark 3: 28, 29; Matt. 12: 31, 32); fourth, the reformability of the characters of most of the dead, in view of God’s character and the Ransom (Rev. 15: 3, 4); fifth, the object of election (Rom. 11: 25-32); sixth, the double experience for mankind (Rom. 8: 20, 21; 11: 32; 5: 18, 19); seventh, the facts of the case (Ezek. 16: 46-63). ’72-71

Dead—God’s Provision For The Unsaved.
Question (1974)—Will the unsaved dead have a chance to be saved to everlasting life?

Answer.—Obviously, all of Adam’s race have not been given the opportunity in this life to benefit from these three great favors. Most people have died without ever hearing of them, let alone deriving therefrom their intended blessing. This is manifest from many facts. All the heathen who died before Christ came, and almost all of them who have died since He came, never heard of God’s love for them unto salvation, of Christ’s death for them unto salvation, and of the Spirit’s work for them unto salvation, and therefore never benefited therefrom; for there is no salvation possible apart from hearing and accepting the Gospel. Many hold that these as a result have been condemned unto eternal torment; and they even affirm of those of them who died before Christ came and of the majority of the Jews who died before Christ came, that though He later died for them, yet they will never get any benefit therefrom, but that at the time of Christ’s death for them were irretrievably lost in eternal torment. From such a standpoint, what possible purpose could He have had in dying for them; if beforehand they were irretrievably lost? But not only the vast majority of the heathen never heard of these three favors; but many others likewise have died in the same condition. Three-fourths of the human family died in infancy, and therefore never derived the blessings of these favors. Many others died in childhood, not enjoying these blessings. Untold numbers of insane persons lacked them also, while Judaism and Mohammedanism have blinded many other billions to these favors. Sectarianism has darkened these subjects so that still other billions have been so confused on these matters as to have gotten but little of the intended blessings there from. Thus we see that the vast majority of the race died in ignorance of the only name under heaven whereby we must be saved, if saved at all—Acts 4: 12.

Therefore, in this life they had no opportunity of obtaining the blessings that these three favors vouchsafe every human being. Nor can they obtain these blessings while dead; for the Scriptures expressly teach that in death there is no change or reformation, or opportunity of salvation: “In the place where the tree falleth, there shall it be” (Eccl. 11: 3). There is no change in the death state for the good reason that “there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave” (Eccl. 9: 10). It being a condition in which nothing is known, seen, felt, done, received, or endured (Eccl. 9: 5, 6), there can be no change there. Consequently, for the billions who have died without Christ, without hope and without God in the world, as strangers from the covenants of promise (Eph. 2: 12), in ignorance or confusion as to the only name whereby salvation is possible, if they are to have an opportunity at all to obtain the benefits of God’s grace for all, Christ’s death for all and the Spirit’s work for all, in order to their salvation, this must be after they are awakened from the dead—during our Lord’s Second Advent and the Judgment Day, i.e., during the Millennium. And it is to make possible to the billions of earth’s non-elect, who died without having had such an opportunity, that God must have made some kind of arrangement such as we believe the Millennial Kingdom will be, in order to give all a fair chance for gaining everlasting life.

Let us not be misunderstood; we are not advocating a second chance. Emphatically we say that the Bible does not teach a second chance for the individuals of the human race. Aside from the fact that they lost their first chance collectively in Adam, they would not have an individual chance at all unless that chance, wrecked by Adam before his descendants were born, would be followed by another chance, which would be the first chance for the individuals of the human race to gain salvation. But while we do not teach a second chance for the individuals of the human race, apart from Adam and Eve, we do not teach less than one chance for each individual. The difficulty with those who seek to make the above teaching opprobrious by calling it a second chance, is that they do not teach even one individual chance for everybody. They claim that whoever did not have an opportunity to obtain salvation in this life will get none at all. Therefore they teach that the overwhelming majority of the race will never get a chance at all, despite the Biblical teachings that God’s love, Christ’s death and the Spirit’s work are for all men in order to salvation! And to them this means that these untold billions are at death handed over to fireproof or otherwise torture-proof devils for eternal torment! Theirs is the opprobrious doctrine, not ours.

We teach, in harmony with the Bible, only one individual chance for all Adam’s descendants. We further teach according to the Bible that a small number of the race, the Church of the Firstborn, gets that chance in this life, that all who make shipwreck of the present opportunity to gain life are everlastingly lost, and that all others are debarred from the present salvation, because they lack the necessary kind of faith to qualify them for becoming of Abraham’s pre-Millennial Seed. We also teach, according to the Bible, that all the rest—the non-elect—will get their chance—their first individual, not their second individual, chance— after the elect are all in the Kingdom with our dear Lord Jesus Christ. Unless some such arrangement should prevail, it would be impossible for the practical application of God’s love, Christ’s death and the Spirit’s work, to all for salvation. And God is too practical, as well as too wise, just, loving and powerful, not to have arranged a feasible way of realizing for all an opportunity for those whom He in the present life excluded from opportunity of the elective salvation with the express purpose of giving them one later (Rom. 11: 30-32). Such an opportunity we must all recognize is fair and Godlike, and therefore is certainly to be expected from God’s love, Christ’s death and the Spirit’s work for all men unto salvation. ’74-70

@ mad-max
na english essay be this

I,m shocked at what i've read so far on this thread. Listen people, it were better to have no opinion of God at all, than such an opinion as is unworthy of him.
The bible is the only book in which God reveals his mind. Happy is he to whom God has given grace to read, to fear, to obey its content.
And better had they never been born who read to doubt or read to scorn. It is the book that reveals the mind of God, the state of man,
the way of salvation, the doom of sinners and the happiness of believers.

God's word (the bible) is supernatural in origin, eternal in duration, inexpresssible in value, infinite in scope, regenerative in power,
infallible in authority, universal in application and inspired in totality. Read it through, pray it in, work it out and pass it on.

May Almighty God have mercy on us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

@origina9ja
Na im o! I copi the thing from the website ho-ha.

I think your friend need a spiritual help

.

LeMoor:
It is always amazing how quick people are to tear down others who have questions. And follow it with subtle threats of Hell Fire, despite the fact that even they do not have answers to the questions asked.

The poster asked why God created the devil, with the Omnipotent knowledge that the devil was going to rise up and challenge him and attempt to turn his creatures (humans) to hell (a word whose entymology predates christianity and comes from Hades, the greek god of the underworld). Assuming this account was true ( I am not saying it is, neither am I saying it is not), but does that make God an egotist? who lacked any worthy challenges, and relishes defeating the devil?

Back to the other questions, Someone also said the poster should hand his friend a bible. The bible isnt without its own holes (and please spare me the 'old backdoor excuse' that I should accept everything by blind faith).

The greatest evils ever known to man, have been perpetrated using religion (take your pick, the crusades, the jihad, slave trade (arabic and european), because religion ascribes superiority over adherrents of any other religion. I know most religious people will claim they are humble, but yet will 'pity' anyone who doesnt follwo their one true God.

Now lets go back to the bible that has been touted as the TRUTh. The bible is a historical account of a specific people (in this case the Jews?), to the exclusion and later inclusion of other people that also existed. There are a couple of literatures that predate the bible and have correlating stories.

If we arent allowed to question the accounts we have been given, so are we saying we accept God isnt perfect? and that his word actually changeth? How do I reconcile my scientific knowledge that proves that in-breeding within families will lead to children with weaker immune systems, yet absorb the fact that God allowed incest when he only 'created' two beings.

if there were only 4poeple on earth when cain killed his brother and attempted to run from God. Who was he scared off when he asked God, 'what if the 'others' find him? And who was God protecting him from when he put a mark on him and proclaimed that "ANYONE that found cain' should not harm him. Bear in mind that Adam only went back to 'know' his wife after this accounts and bore seth. yet Esau went east and managed to raise a whole family unto himself. (Note, I am not questioning God, I am questioning the accounts that have been handed to me). Why give me a brain if I am not supposed to apply it to question things that dont add up? I personall dont think this is a sin.

I personally dont argue religion, and try not to convince anyone to see things or question them the way I do, cause religious pple cop out and tell me it is all 'by faith', and you couldnt argue with that. But when people have questions, let them be, answer the questions, if you can, and if you cant shut up. But quit with all the condescending, hand the soul on the highway to hell a bible talk. Most people dont even know why they believe what they believe, except that they were born into it and have been indoctrinated with it, yet, they look down on other similar people born and indoctrinated into something different, and pity them because they are not 'saved'.

I will stop for now. But please let the poster be. He has questions in his mind, let him ask,

The greatest conflict to ever occur in the entire Universe is
the conflict of Good &Evil(God & Satan) everyliving that has
ever existed has been a partaker in this conflict .
The question is how did this conflict start and why did God allow this conflict and Human suffering did God create Evil what is God's plan and purpose for the Universe? We will look at this
issues critically with the Bible as our guide.
In the begining God made the Heavens(Universe) and the
entire hosts of Heaven, Gensis1:1 the entire Universe were governed by Divine laws of God (Law of love) which ensured
perfect peace and Harmony in the entire Universe so long as
all created beings acknowledged & observed and loved God's law there was peace it was joy and delight of the Heavenly Host to fufill the purpose of their creator they delighted in reflecting his glory and praising him, that was all God required in return for his gift of freewill to all his
creations for God took no pleasure in forced obedience/
alliagance.
Sin(breaking of God's Divine Laws) originated from One
(Satan/Lucifer) who was next to Jesus in Power,Honour & glory.
Using what we call symbolism God asked Prophet Ezekiel to
prophicse against Satan(King of Tyrus)
Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus and say unto himThus saith the Lord GOD;Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz,
and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the
sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the
workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in
thee in the day that thou wast created. 28:14 Thou art the
anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou
wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up
and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 28:15 Thou
wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast
created, till iniquity was found in thee. 28:16 By the
multitude of thy merchandise thou have filled the midst of
thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast
thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will
destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones
of fire. 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy
beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy
brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee
before kings, that they may behold thee. 28:18 Thou hast
defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by
the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire
from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring
thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that
behold thee.
From this Bible verse we can see that Lucifer was one of the
covering Cherub who stood in the presence of God,he was created perfect,beautiful and had great power and Authority but he desired the throne of God his maker, rather than exalt
God he desired his own exaltation, inorder to acheive his
selfish desire Satan accused God before the angels of been
selfish desiring praise from his creations why not willingly to
make any sacrifice for others.
He attacked God's divine laws as been too restrictive and
unattainable, he used decit & lies to challenge God's
authority & Soveriegnity over the Universe pretending to be
fighting for all the Host of the Heaven but he was fighting for
his selfish desire to become like God. Isaiah14:12 How art
thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how
art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the
nations! 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will
ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of
God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in
the sides of the north: 14:14 I will ascend above the heights
of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 14:15 Yet thou
shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 14:16
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and
consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to
tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 14:17 That made the
world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that
opened not the house of his prisoners?
Satan accusation against God's divine law can be also be
found in Job1:6-21 and in Genesis3:1Where he told Eve you shall not die contrary to God's
command to Adam and Eve that they will die if they ate from
the tree of knownledge.
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall
not surely die: 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat
thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as
gods, knowing good and evil.
Satan also uses false myths like
Darwnism,Evolution,bigbang and all false religeons to blind
people from knowning the truth about God even in christendom Satan's influence can be seen in wrong teachings like the worship of mary,Clergy men,sunday
worship,teachings of immortality of the Soul,an Eternal Hell
fire,fake prophets and pastors,fake miracles e.t.c all this are done to decieve people he promises freedom(irony bondage)
claiming that people will be free if they disregard God's laws. today most drug addicts,sex perverts,money chasers,serial killers,masturbaters and other vices can attest to the fact that they are enslaved or are in bondage to sin.
Legalisation of same-sex
marriage,Feminism,Socialism,communilism,multiculturalism
are part of the Devils agenda to acheive a United world
government with him as the Head in rebellion against God.
From the book of isaiah14:12 we can see that it is the Devil
who weakens the Nations he is responsible for all the
calamity and suffering that has ever befallen Man.
God could have destroyed Satan than, but it could have
caused most Heavenly beings to serve God out of fear rather
than love secondly Satan accusations against God could
have seemed true to other heavenly beings.
God is a god of love,Justice,& truth. Deut.32:3-4
Justice requires a defendant to present fully his case for all
to see and judge hence God allowed Satan to continue to
exist and show his true nature & motive.This rebellion in
Heaven by Satan lead to war and disharmony in Heaven.
In luke10:18 & Rev12:7-9 we are told that the Devil with
1/3angels of Heaven he decieved were cast out of Heaven to Earth.
When God made man, Satan desired to enlist Man to his
side in his rebellion against God this he successed in doing
by convincing Eve &Adam to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and bad,which God forbid them not to touch or eat.
Man lost his Dominion over the Earth Genesis1:26-28 to
Satan as a result of Man's sin Satan became the god of this
world john14:3
Satan's rulership of this world is what we see today in form of
wars,Chaos,famine,corruption,genocide,earthquakes,injustice, poverty as we read before he weakens the Nations.
It was imperative for God to allow all this to happen inorder
to unreval the true nature of Satan and to show the entire
Universe what the Universe will be like when things are done
outside his divinelaws,
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the
soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the
simple. 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing
the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
like i said before Justice requires that a defendant(Satan)
will fully present his case.
Numbers 14:18 The LORD is LONGSUFFERING and of great
mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression.God only
intervenes to avoid the total destruction of man under
Satan's rule.God was willingly to make the greatest Sacrifice
ever made he gave his Son's life as a ransom for the fallen
world.john3:6. Since divine law prescribes death for its
offenders only the death of Jesus could rescue Humanity.
God has proved to all the Universe his love & just nature he
has proved his selfless nature by giving his Son's life for his
creations & also that his divine laws are immutable and are
there for the benefit of all the inhabitants of the Universe.
In Conclusion
God has allowed all this to happen out of his loving and just
nature so that all his creations can appreciate his gift of
freewill.
God has promised to destory Satan,Sin and all the sufferings
it brings.mal 4:1 & Ezeikel 28:18-19.
He has promised to do everything new.
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new
earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come
into mind. You can be a partaker of God's divine plan by
accepting Jesus .