davidylan:

More proof of baseless bias. Do you have concrete proof that NOT A SINGLE ONE of the apostles ever went to China, India or the Americas? Or are you one of those slow witted ones who believe the hubris that a european explorer by name columbus "discovered" America?

- You initially included the middle east in your allegations, now that i provide proof suddenly you turn full circle and drop the middle east to cling to china and India . . . it is sufficient proof to anyone interested that you don't really have full grasp of what u're arguing about since you didnt know that Paul actually travelled as far as Syria, Lebanon, what is known as Jordan today and that Phillip preached as far as the horn of Africa.

There were so many other apostles whose journeys are not highlighted in the bible . . . do you have proof to show they went no where?

The bible is common knowledge in every nation on earth . . . tear your hair out all you want.

you clearly didnt understand my post and you mixed it up completely. if you read clearly you will understand what i was saying but in your rush to defend christainity and the bible you did'nt wait to understand what you read, who told you i didnt know that paul went to the middle east? i clearly stated that is the middle east the entire world? read up and you will see. you clearly didnt understand my post but any way thats your problem. the bible is not common knowledge in every nation, people know the bible as a book of the christains simple not as the word of allah,buddah,zues,kirisnah etc. so they look at it and understand it differently as you do. a moslem does'nt understand the bible the way a christain does because islam tells him not to accept the bible but moslems keep claiming they know the bible like the christains do(a christains entire life revolves around the bible). just as some christains do not understand the koran(a moslems entire life revolves around the koran) the way the moslems do but keep claiming they do. by the way if there is a god then which is it? is it allah buddah,hinto, shinton, phallangon etc? i know you will say that the choice is mine but then why is the choice mine?

tear my hair out? i don't believe in all those fables and you are telling me to tear my head out are you kidding me? i have stated so many times that i have nothing against religion, i have considered it a necessary evil. but the way religious people go around fighting each other and treating those that do not belief in their faiths condencendingly is what annoys me most of the time. i have also said that trying to convince a religious person that there is no god is a fight no body can win here on nairaland. i have christains and moslems all around me even though i live in an atheist country and i like them and encourage them to practice their religion because they respect my beliefs and i respect theirs.they don't spend day and night fighting each other like what goes on here on nairaland. what i find annoying is when nigerians spend day and night trying to prove that my god/holy book is better than your god/holy book which are all fables as far as i am concerened.

mazaje:

you clearly didnt understand my post and you mixed it up completely. if you read clearly you will understand what i was saying but in your rush to defend christainity and the bible you did'nt wait to understand what you read, who told you i didnt know that paul went to the middle east? i clearly stated that is the middle east the entire world? read up and you will see.

Did you also know that Apostle John Mark was born in Tunisia and that Apostle Andrew evangelized from Greece to modern day southern Russia to romania and Armenia?

Did you also know that Apostle thomas evangelized southern India and that Paul travelled as far as Ephesus (modern day turkey), Greece, Italy, Malta and Spain?

mazaje:

the bible is not common knowledge in every nation, people know the bible as a book of the christains simple not as the word of allah,buddah,zues,kirisnah etc. so they look at it and understand it differently as you do. a moslem does'nt understand the bible the way a christain does because islam tells him not to accept the bible but moslems keep claiming they know the bible like the christains do(a christains entire life revolves around the bible). just as some christains do not understand the koran(a moslems entire life revolves around the koran) the way the moslems do but keep claiming they do.

convoluted diatribe that essentially communicates nothing. The bible (as a book) is common knowledge in every nation on earth . . . full stop.

mazaje:

by the way if there is a god then which is it? is it allah buddah,hinto, shinton, phallangon etc? i know you will say that the choice is mine but then why is the choice mine?

Back to the red herring "if there is a god which is it"? I have no business with allah, buhdda and the rest . . . u're best served forwarding your question to those who worship those "gods" . . . but as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow hypocrites like you wont be doing that to the muslims anytime soon.

The choice is yours because you have an inherent freedom of choice.

mazaje:

iwhat i find annoying is when nigerians spend day and night trying to prove that my god/holy book is better than your god/holy book which are all fables as far as i am concerened.

what most of us find equally annoying is when nigerians spend day and night trying to prove that the bible is a compilation of myths and fables . . . especially when it turns out such people have a very poor understanding of the book they seek to disparage.

Did you also know that Apostle John Mark was born in Tunisia and that Apostle Andrew evangelized from Greece to modern day southern Russia to romania and Armenia?

Did you also know that Apostle thomas evangelized southern India and that Paul travelled as far as Ephesus (modern day turkey), Greece, Italy, Malta and Spain?
 

and where is the book of thomas in the bible? why was'nt it included in the bible? did i know? do i care? how do you know ?where you there? have you ever seen paul. you just have faith and thats what excatlt what it is. faith end of story.

na waooo dis argument is serious oooo

davidylan my loff i hail u oooo

mazaje:

and where is the book of thomas in the bible? why was'nt it included in the bible? did i know? do i care? how do you know ?where you there? have you ever seen paul. you just have faith and thats what excatlt what it is. faith end of story.

it is the reason we have archeological and historical evidence to prove that indeed these apostles existed and they visited those places, some mentioned in the bible and some left out.

Thomas does not need a book in the bible to prove that he evangelized India duh!!!

Let us digress a bit, i never saw Paul . . . now that's true. Bro Mazaje the hypocrite . . . have you ever SEEN EVOLUTION occur before your very eyes? Yet you believe it? why?

davidylan:

it is the reason we have archeological and historical evidence to prove that indeed these apostles existed and they visited those places, some mentioned in the bible and some left out.

Thomas does not need a book in the bible to prove that he evangelized India duh!!!

Let us digress a bit, i never saw Paul . . . now that's true. Bro Mazaje the hypocrite . . . have you ever SEEN EVOLUTION occur before your very eyes? Yet you believe it? why?

i have seen evolution occured in your bible. the old and new testament that is evolution. the bible evolved from the jewish text(primitive laws and mode of life) to a text that will be universally acceptable(with so many changes). it is still undergoing evolution hence the over 30,000 sects in christainity each evolving in its own way to conform to the way of life of a civilized world whilst disagreeing and knocking heads with each other. global warming is evolution and it is happening right now.

you talked about thomas, but you bible compliers fought day and night to discard and not include his book in the bible. why is that so?

mazaje:

i have seen evolution occured in your bible. the old and new testament that is evolution. the bible evolved from the jewish text(primitive laws and mode of life) to a text that will be universally acceptable(with so many changes). it is still undergoing evolution hence the over 30,000 sects in christainity each evolving in its own way to conform to the way of life of a civilized world whilst disagreeing and knocking heads with each other.

What a load of bull. I mean "evolution" in scientific terms not the silly wool you're trying to pull over our eyes here. Did YOU truly evolve from an ape? any scientist to show us a demonstration?

mazaje:

global warming is evolution and it is happening right now.

How can you be so uneducated? Global warming has nothing to do with "evolution", rather it is the earth's natural response to increased production of heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere.

mazaje:

you talked about thomas, but you bible compliers fought day and night to discard and not include his book in the bible. why is that so?

It still does not invalidate the fact that thomas was an apostle and evangelized India . . . what are talking about? where EVERY SINGLE book by all the apostles to be accepted in the bible do you know we'd need a wheel barrow to take it to church?

davidylan:

What a load of bull. I mean "evolution" in scientific terms not the silly wool you're trying to pull over our eyes here. Did YOU truly evolve from an ape? any scientist to show us a demonstration?

How can you be so uneducated? Global warming has nothing to do with "evolution", rather it is the earth's natural response to increased production of heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere.

It still does not invalidate the fact that thomas was an apostle and evangelized India . . . what are talking about? where EVERY SINGLE book by all the apostles to be accepted in the bible do you know we'd need a wheel barrow to take it to church?

what do you know  about evolution? all you know is that apes turned into men keep it up. global warming has nothing to do with evolution? ohhh is that what you believe? as i said earlier on you know nothing about evolution.

how do you know that thomas evangelised indai? have you read his books? why was there a battle not to include his books in the bible? why do some people believe that his messages were anti christain?

a

I don't get that. The sole purpose of holy books is that their gods might be found therein. I doubt there'd be any god to find and follow if there weren't holy books trumpeting their existence. I cannot pray for my friend or commit him to God or some other religious exercise because I find that some of his questions are also mine.

it is amazing that it is the professed christians that have been quick to bandy words like ignorant, arrogant, proud around. it is the normal resort when you don't have answers to questions.

Davidlylan,
using HIV/AIDS as an example is quite dishonest of you in this argument. Is AIDS the only killer? Or are you saying diseases have been the cause of a shortened life span? Give me a man in the perfect environment/setting (devoid of all the hustle and bustle of city life and take away any diseases), are you telling me he will live up to 800 calendar years?

puhleease!!!!!!!

Buttressing your points from a book, emperor Constantine and the 70 wise men decided was good enough for you, dayumm!!!!

Le Moor:

it is amazing that it is the professed christians that have been quick to bandy words like ignorant, arrogant, proud around. it is the normal resort when you don't have answers to questions.

Davidlylan,
using HIV/AIDS as an example is quite dishonest of you in this argument. Is AIDS the only killer? Or are you saying diseases have been the cause of a shortened life span? Give me a man in the perfect environment/setting (devoid of all the hustle and bustle of city life and take away any diseases), are you telling me he will live up to 800 calendar years?

puhleease!!!!!!!

Buttressing your points from a book, emperor Constantine and the 70 wise men decided was good enough for you, dayumm!!!!

when did the bible become the bible? who where those that complied ,editted and complied it and made it what it is. why was the book of thomas that discarded by the compliers? why was it considered anti christain?

mazaje:

what do you know about evolution? all you know is that apes turned into men keep it up.

lame attempt at a pun. The main crux of evolution is that man EVOLVED from early ape-like ancestors. Some of us actually went to school.

mazaje:

global warming has nothing to do with evolution? ohhh is that what you believe? as i said earlier on you know nothing about evolution.

More evidence that you really dont know what you are talking about . . . in the last 100 yrs . . . earth's temperature has only increased 0.7 degrees centigrade (also known as global warming) . . . just to enlighten you here is what the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has to say about global warming:

most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-twentieth century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic (man-made) greenhouse gas concentrations via an enhanced greenhouse effect. Natural phenomena such as solar variation combined with volcanoes probably had a small warming effect from pre-industrial times to 1950 and a small cooling effect from 1950 onward.

Greennhouse gases include carbon dioxide, methane, chloroflourinated hydrocarbons and nitrous oxide. Nothing to do with evolution but more to do with the increase in the release of these gases into the atmosphere with increasing industrialization.

I sometimes wonder what they teach some people in school.

mazaje:

how do you know that thomas evangelised indai?

Do a simple google search, there is ample archeological and historical evidence. Enough of this lazy noise making.

mazaje:

have you read his books?

How does that prove that he didnt go to india? You believe Paul travelled to Syria, did you read any of his books?

mazaje:

why was there a battle not to include his books in the bible?

would that have validated his missionary journey to India?

mazaje:

why do some people believe that his messages were anti christain?

What is the relevance of this to the topic?

More clueless grasping at straws here methinks.

Le Moor:

it is amazing that it is the professed christians that have been quick to bandy words like ignorant, arrogant, proud around. it is the normal resort when you don't have answers to questions.

Professed christians are also humans and have a right to call things as they see it. If i think you are ignorant i will tell you flat out. You havent asked any SERIOUS questions that have not been answered because i cant see any relevant questions here to stimulate deep thinking. What you have produced is a plethora of incoherent hubris that have been shown up to be devoid of substance.

Le Moor:

Davidlylan,
using HIV/AIDS as an example is quite dishonest of you in this argument. Is AIDS the only killer? Or are you saying diseases have been the cause of a shortened life span? Give me a man in the perfect environment/setting (devoid of all the hustle and bustle of city life and take away any diseases), are you telling me he will live up to 800 calendar years?

Using AIDS as an example is not dishonest sir, rather it is an attempt to show how invalid your claims are. You make a point about why man's lifespan has suddenly shortened in the last 6000 yrs . . . and i ask you to show me whether HIV existed 6000yrs ago.
That is not to mean that HIV is the sole reason for the shortened lifespan, it is simply to show you that the earth (man inclusive) has evolved slowly over the last thousands of yrs . . .

You believe man originated in Africa, can you conclusively tell us WHY we have black skinned folks and white-skinned folks? how did asians evolve their strikingly different features? When you answer all that we can have a chat on why lifespan became short.

You people love to ask silly questions, ask you just one and you start blabbing about dishonesty. Shebi na only athiests dey go school.

Le Moor:

Buttressing your points from a book, emperor Constantine and the 70 wise men decided was good enough for you, dayumm!!!!

You have been reading textbooks in school, did they drop down from heaven or are they not the texts the white man decided was good enough for you? Who wrote your physics textbook? How do you know that he is the only one who is right? dayumm to you too!!!

This mazaje just keeps swinging from one tree of indecision to another. Looking desperately for something to stick to:

mazaje:

when did the bible become the bible?

When someone decided to collect all the letters of the apostles, the torah and the gospels written in parchments together in one form for easier access.

mazaje:

who where those that complied ,editted and complied it and made it what it is.

compiling the bible has nothing to do with its content. In case you are reluctant to read the bible pls go ahead and purchase copies of the original parchments on which they were written - many are in greek, aramaic and hebrew . . . find an interpreter and then suit urself.

mazaje:

why was the book of thomas that discarded by the compliers? why was it considered anti christain?

The book of Philip is also not in the bible, that of Simon the Cyrene is also not there, we dont know where the parchment of Stephen is . . . we really dont need every single book . . . the book of thomas is not destroyed . . . find an original copy and read it.

the book of Enoch is not in my bible but out of curiosity i went searching for it and have a copy that i found great pleasure in reading.

dont be lazy, go and read.

More evidence that you really don't know what you are talking about . . . in the last 100 years . . . earth's temperature has only increased 0.7 degrees centigrade (also known as global warming) . . . just to enlighten you here is what the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has to say about global warming:

most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-twentieth century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic (man-made) greenhouse gas concentrations via an enhanced greenhouse effect. Natural phenomena such as solar variation combined with volcanoes probably had a small warming effect from pre-industrial times to 1950 and a small cooling effect from 1950 onward.

Greennhouse gases include carbon dioxide, methane, chloroflourinated hydrocarbons and nitrous oxide. Nothing to do with evolution but more to do with the increase in the release of these gases into the atmosphere with increasing industrialization.

I sometimes wonder what they teach some people in school.

and what is all this things you copy and pasted sound to you? ohh so evolution is all about people turing into humans from their ancestoral apes? sannu

 Do a simple google search, there is ample archeological and historical evidence. Enough of this lazy noise making.

why are you insisting on referring me to some one that was considered a heretic by your bible compliers?

How does that prove that he didnt go to india? You believe Paul travelled to Syria, did you read any of his books?    

who the Bleep is paul? who told you that i believe in paul and his fables? i was only referring to what the bible said about him that doesnt mean i believe any of it. why dont you believe in jospeh smith. both of them claimed to have recieved their visions from the christain god. why should jospeh smith revalatiosn be discarded? and as far as i care they were both deranged if they ever existed that is.

 would that have validated his missionary journey to India?

why was his missionary journey not included in the bible? why are  you accepting his story and not that of jospeh smith? why are you even referring to some one who's account of events were discarded by the bible compliers?

What is the relevance of this to the topic?

More clueless grasping at straws here methinks.

 

it is relevant because you are referring to some one who you bible compliers and edittors considered his messages and account of events to be anti christain.

davidylan:


You believe man originated in Africa, can you conclusively tell us WHY we have black skinned folks and white-skinned folks? how did asians evolve their strikingly different features? When you answer all that we can have a chat on why lifespan became short.

There is tonnes of evidence the confirm that Humans originated in Africa. I have many of these on Nairaland before but as per usually you guys just ignore it, preferring to go to myth of Genesis.

You indicated in one of your post that there was a pre-Adamite world and that clues to this is even given in the bible. I asked you for chapter&verse but you failed you provide such.

huxley:

There is tonnes of evidence the confirm that Humans originated in Africa. I have many of these on Nairaland before but as per usually you guys just ignore it, preferring to go to myth of Genesis.

You indicated in one of your post that there was a pre-Adamite world and that clues to this is even given in the bible. I asked you for chapter&verse but you failed you provide such.

I would just ask Davidlyan for his own expalnation. So did God create the different races? Or one race? if he created one race, how did the other races come about? And which one did he create?
And if he created many races? at what point did the deviation come? And knowing the prejudice/devastation racial matters would cause, why did he create us in different races?

Just questions

mazaje:

and what is all this things you copy and pasted sound to you? ohh so evolution is all about people turing into humans from their ancestoral apes? sannu

- They simply prove your poor scholarship, that you don't know what "global warming" is despite you mentioning it so many times is incredulous.
Now as regards evolution, may i suggest you read up on Darwin's theory of evolution . . . you can find it in any biology textbook for 12 yr olds. Evolution essentially deals with inherited traits/mutations in genes producing heritable differences in phenotype among organisms.

Even an 8yr old would know that, but well Mazaje isnt 8 . . .

mazaje:

why are you insisting on referring me to some one that was considered a heretic by your bible compliers?

I wasnt refering you to anything since u're incapable of doing independent search besides just spouting athiest drivel. The bible compilers did not leave out the book of thomas because they considered him a heretic (wherever you got that nonsense) . . . the book of Enoch isnt in the bible . . . was he regarded as a heretic too?

mazaje:

who the Bleep is paul? who told you that i believe in paul and his fables? i was only referring to what the bible said about him that doesnt mean i believe any of it. why don't you believe in jospeh smith. both of them claimed to have recieved their visions from the christain god. why should jospeh smith revalatiosn be discarded? and as far as i care they were both deranged if they ever existed that is.

don't break your jugular vein in annoyance.   Paul's books may be fables to you but they form the bedrock of the new testament today and is relevant to the rest of us who make a conscious choice to follow the bible.

mazaje:

why was his missionary journey not included in the bible?

Daft question . . . if they put the missionary journeys of every tom, privates and harry in the bible we'd need a lorry to carry the bible to church. Is every physics theory in your textbook?

mazaje:

why are  you accepting his story and not that of jospeh smith?

another daft question - thomas was one of the original 12 disciples, joseph Smith was not. Thomas's beliefs dovetailed with that of others in the bible, Joseph Smith makes claims that are extraneous to the bible.

mazaje:

why are you even referring to some one who's account of events were discarded by the bible compliers? it is relevant because you are referring to some one who you bible compliers and edittors considered his messages and account of events to be anti christain.

you've asked this question 1200 times, do you even read the responses you get or u're just too blinded by your own unbelief?

so dis arguement is still on?

huxley:

There is tonnes of evidence the confirm that Humans originated in Africa. I have many of these on Nairaland before but as per usually you guys just ignore it, preferring to go to myth of Genesis.

I firmly believe that is true. The bible talks of two completely different worlds . . . one pre-adamite and the other from Adam.

huxley:

You indicated in one of your post that there was a pre-Adamite world and that clues to this is even given in the bible. I asked you for chapter&verse but you failed you provide such.

you're not blind, i gave you an assignment to go read GENESIS 1 very carefully and come back with your opinion.

Le Moor:

I would just ask Davidlyan for his own expalnation. So did God create the different races? Or one race? if he created one race, how did the other races come about? And which one did he create?
And if he created many races? at what point did the deviation come? And knowing the prejudice/devastation racial matters would cause, why did he create us in different races?

Just questions

dont ask me anything . . . when i ask my own questions you pretend not to see it and then rush back with more "questions".

I asked you earlier . . . forget the bible, assume it is false . . . now pls EXPLAIN TO ME IN LUCID DETAIL how did we evolve to different races knowing full well that science proves that man must have evolved from Africa?

How did the Asians get their strikingly different features?

Answer me first!

Micro-evolution.  Google it. The bible claims that we all came from Adam & Eve, so you'll have a harder time explaining it.

Seun:

Micro-evolution. Google it. The bible claims that we all came from Adam & Eve, so you'll have a harder time explaining it.

Micro evolution is a fact that you can observe in the laboratory, science is yet to conclusively explain how exactly macro evolution occurs.

The bible claims we all come from Adam and Eve, i tend to believe that is true. Science has a harder time convincing me it is not so.

This is Genesis 1. Can you point us to where there is reference to a pre-Adamite world?

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

what language did god speak? hebrew?

Huxley, read verses 1 and 2 of that chapter VERY CAREFULLY.

Then read Jeremiah 4:23 - 27

mazaje:

what language did god speak? hebrew?

Igbo.

in the koran it is written that god cearted the world giving commands in arabic. why didnt god speak my native language while giving out the creation orders?

mazaje:

in the koran it is written that god cearted the world giving commands in arabic. why didnt god speak my native language while giving out the creation orders?

You know the muslim section . . . go make a thread and ask them there.

mazaje:

in the koran it is written that god cearted the world giving commands in arabic. why didnt god speak my native language while giving out the creation orders?

sorry to say dis but smtimes ur questions can be so childish and meaningless

Can you explain how a pre-Adamite interpretation can be construed from reading Jeremiah 4 in conjunction with with Genesis 1. This is Jeremiah 4.


1If thou wilt return, O Israel, saith the LORD, return unto me: and if thou wilt put away thine abominations out of my sight, then shalt thou not remove.

2And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

3For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.

4Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

5Declare ye in Judah, and publish in Jerusalem; and say, Blow ye the trumpet in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defenced cities.

6Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.

7The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant.

8For this gird you with sackcloth, lament and howl: for the fierce anger of the LORD is not turned back from us.

9And it shall come to pass at that day, saith the LORD, that the heart of the king shall perish, and the heart of the princes; and the priests shall be astonished, and the prophets shall wonder.

10Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.

11At that time shall it be said to this people and to Jerusalem, A dry wind of the high places in the wilderness toward the daughter of my people, not to fan, nor to cleanse,

12Even a full wind from those places shall come unto me: now also will I give sentence against them.

13Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.

14O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?

15For a voice declareth from Dan, and publisheth affliction from mount Ephraim.

16Make ye mention to the nations; behold, publish against Jerusalem, that watchers come from a far country, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah.

17As keepers of a field, are they against her round about; because she hath been rebellious against me, saith the LORD.

18Thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee; this is thy wickedness, because it is bitter, because it reacheth unto thine heart.

[b]
19My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.

20Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.

21How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?

22For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

23I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

29The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.[/b]

30And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.

31For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.