Q. What's your opinion about whether women can have it all?

I don't think women can have it all. I just don't think so. We pretend we have it all. We pretend we can have it all. My husband and I have been married for 34 years. And we have two daughters. And every day you have to make a decision about whether you are going to be a wife or a mother, in fact many times during the day you have to make those decisions. And you have to co-opt a lot of people to help you. We co-opted our families to help us. We plan our lives meticulously so we can be decent parents. But if you ask our daughters, I'm not sure they will say that I've been a good mom. I'm not sure. And I try all kinds of coping mechanisms.

I'll tell you a story that happened when my daughter went to Catholic school. Every Wednesday morning they had class coffee with the mothers. Class coffee for a working woman—how is it going to work? How am I going to take off 9 o'clock on Wednesday mornings? So I missed most class coffees. My daughter would come home and she would list off all the mothers that were there and say, "You were not there, mom."

The first few times I would die with guilt. But I developed coping mechanisms. I called the school and I said, "give me a list of mothers that are not there." So when she came home in the evening she said, "You were not there, you were not there."

And I said, "ah ha, Mrs. Redd wasn't there, Mrs. So and So wasn't there. So I'm not the only bad mother."

You know, you have to cope, because you die with guilt. You just die with guilt. My observation, David, is that the biological clock and the career clock are in total conflict with each other. Total, complete conflict. When you have to have kids you have to build your career. Just as you're rising to middle management your kids need you because they're teenagers, they need you for the teenage years.

And that's the time your husband becomes a teenager too, so he needs you (laughing). They need you too. What do you do? And as you grow even more, your parents need you because they're aging. So we're screwed. We have no... we cannot have it all. Do you know what? Coping mechanisms. Train people at work. Train your family to be your extended family. You know what? When I'm in PepsiCo I travel a lot, and when my kids were tiny, especially my second one, we had strict rules on playing Nintendo. She'd call the office, and she didn't care if I was in China, Japan, India, wherever. She'd call the office, the receptionist would pick up the phone, "Can I speak to my mommy?" Everybody knows if somebody says, 'Can I speak to mommy?' It's my daughter. So she'd say, "Yes, Tyra, what can I do for you?"

"I want to play Nintendo."

So she has a set of questions. "Have you finished your homework?" Etc. I say this because that's what it takes. She goes through the questions and she says, "Okay, you can play Nintendo half an hour." Then she leaves me a message. "Tyra called at 5. This is the sequence of questions I went through. I've given her permission." So it's seamless parenting. But if you don't do that, I'm serious, if you don't develop mechanisms with your secretaries, with the extended office, with everybody around you, it cannot work. You know, stay at home mothering was a full time job. Being a CEO for a company is three full time jobs rolled into one. How can you do justice to all? You can't. The person who hurts the most through this whole thing is your spouse. There's no question about it. You know, Raj always said, you know what, your list is PepsioCo, PepsiCo, PepsiCo, our two kids, your mom, and then at the bottom of the list is me. There are two ways to look at it. (laughing) You should be happy you're on the list. So don't complain. (laughing) He is on the list. He is very much on the list. But you know, (laughing) sorry, David.

ireneidiva: Did she resign at the end of the day? No. So I don't get.

alutacontinua:

I was also waiting to see the part where she had to quit her job or leave her home, lol

You might be
president of PepsiCo. You might be on the board
of directors. But when you enter this house,
you're the wife, you're the daughter, you're the
daughter-in-law, and you’re the mother. You're
all of that. Nobody else can take that place. So
leave that damned crown in the garage. And
don't bring it into the house.

alutacontinua:



I was also waiting to see the part where she had to quit her job or leave her home, lol

damiso: When it comes heading big business it is not even a gender specific thing.You just have to sometimes sacrifice that recital, that parent teacher meeting, that school play and one way or the other let down your children.That is not necessarily black and white good or bad because every good thing or anything of value tends to come with sacrifices..

Its easier when you have a great support network like she did in her mum (and my mum had her in her own mum before she passed on as my dad was also on the move alot) but she does have a point that it's sometimes hard to manage a work life balance when you get to the peak of certain proffessions.Its the same for men too but it just tends to be women who feel a bit more guilty about it.

I know a family where the kids have travelled to most of the countries in the world with their mum on vacation but were sooo thrilled when their Dad was finally able to join them on a family holiday to Gambia.But the truth is Daddy has to sacrifice that time with them to pay for a very expensive education and lifestyle.

sauer: She apparently has a good support system in place. Plus an understanding husband.

As far as I can tell, the best gift a career woman can ever have is an understanding husband. Any other thing is secondary.

cococandy: I didn't read your thread
But in response to the topic only.

No one can have it all.
Even successful career men.
It's fallacy thinking one can.
The idea is to get as good of both worlds as possible.
And it is possible when you have a partner who's dreams and goals align with yours.
There for each other. Back to back.
And a successful career woman can have it good.

Bigsteveg:

Wish u could, the main message being passed to her from her mom is "You might be
president of PepsiCo. You might be on the board
of directors.But when you enter this house,
you're the wife, you're the daughter, you're the
daughter-in-law, and you’re the mother.You're
all of that. Nobody else can take that place. So
leave that damned crown in the garage. And
don't bring it into the house."

crackhaus:
In reference to the emboldened, I believe that is the message to be passed across here or maybe the most important one....and coming from a woman just makes it much more credible.

If a man (or her husband) had said that, I believe this thread would have taken a different turn by now. Some would have lambasted him for not getting the milk because he came home earlier, some would be quick to label him dominant, some might even go as far as calling him a caveman....but this here spoken by an experience woman speaks volumes.

A woman married into a home remains a woman with roles; she is a wife, a mother, a housekeeper, and a caretaker. It really doesn't matter if she earns a six-figure salary as the CEO in the article probably does or if she earns a few thousand.
I get irritated sometimes when I have to read some comments here by females claiming that if their husbands get home before them, he has to fix everything and not wait for her to come back and do it herself...that just speaks volumes in bad upbringing, and like the mother to the CEO in the article rightly put, once a woman is inside her home, she is first a mother and wife before she is whatever she is at her workplace.

bukatyne:

Hunger never wire the man!

A man gets home like 2hrs before his wife and waits for her to come back before eating?

If he cannot fix dinner for his wife because he is the head/man/oga or she is the tail, can't he get something for himself?

Like I said, hunger never wire am.

Bigsteveg:

U and ireneidiva are missing out on the point, who says she has to quit her job, there are answers in that little post yet u couldn't see it

crackhaus:
Missing the point again.. A hungry man who knows how to cook will prepare something for himself to eat or probably bring out something from the freezer already prepared and just heat it up.

Now you brought up the fixing dinner for his wife thing, this here is the misunderstanding. If he does it, nice, no stress...but a man who doesn't do that should not be labelled or attacked for it.
It is solely his prerogative to make dinner or not to, whether women like to hear it or not...that's just how it's been.

Also, if he decides to wait up for his wife and doesn't eat anything (maybe hunger never wire am)...will a good wife come back and go straight to bed without fixing dinner all because she wants to prove a point? like really?

bukatyne:

This is not about proving a point.

If we do not have a joint/project account, I will never wait for my hubby to come back home before paying Light/Water/refuse etc. fee when I have the money with me. If my hubby waits for me to come back home to fix a meal when he is not ill or very busy, I will not be pleased.

Marriage is a partnership and I do not see the reason A or B should wait for B or A before doing something that can be handled by either party

But then again, we all see things differently.

crackhaus:
And when either A or B decides to wait and does not handle that thing before the other gets back, what happens then? Is it to be a cause of grudges and resentment?

Your example about paying bills is somewhat besides the point, but I'll indulge it by asking this question...
"How many men have you heard/seen/come across complaining or harboring a grudge because their wives did not pay the light/water/refuse bill compared to the number of women who complain and resent the idea that their husbands don't help out with house chores/cooking?"

I'll give a clue to the answer, no reasonable man would dare open his mouth to complain of such to anyone because he knows that by default, it's his responsibility.

This is my point... There are gender-specific roles, it's the reality whether we like it or not because thousands of years of evolution has made it so. The world is not ideal, heck nothing tangible in the world follows the laws of ideality except the intangible (gravity, mass, light, etc).

If a woman is lucky enough to have a husband who satisfies her in every nook and cranny of her life (still highly unlikely as y'all always find something to complain about), then good for her.
But for women married to men who find sharing the responsibility of chores/cooking/cleaning unimportant whether or not the wife works as much as he does (best believe, they many), then it's not a bad thing either because by default it is not what naturally comes to him.....thus, a sensible woman who values her marriage must not make it a big deal but instead try to get her husband to do little by being polite, respectful and humorous...this is how smart women deal with it, I've seen it happen a lot..sometimes the man even sees it as a new challenge and deliberately does the chore/cooking just to lighten the mood and get good laughs.

The summary is that a woman should not be making it like it's a must or a responsibility to do those.....I repeat, it is his prerogative just as it's a woman's prerogative to pay bills without waiting for her man to do it.

cococandy: Doesn't that contradict the topic sentence?
being a wife,mother,daughter,care taker,home keeper is a beautiful position to be in.

Leave what crown at the garage?
This where you guys get it wrong.
'Wifehood' 'motherhood' is a crown itself.

What you just said makes it sound like all the above are lowly positions and once a woman who's CEO in any big shot company gets home what she need to do is remove the crown.
and become what??

I think I get the message you guys are wrongly trying to pass accross.
It's the right message.
But it's being passed the wrong way. Being the caretaker and the mother and wife in a home is a very exulted position. And unless a woman is confused about her role in the family,she won't see it as not having it all.


If I can rise to be a CEO and a leader in any public outfit with the respect and benefits that goes with it. Then on reaching home,I'm the undisputed mother,wife and care giver. Taking care of my family and trying as much as possible to give them my best.
Then I will count myself as someone who has it all.it may not be 100 percent. And some days might just be hell.
But that's as close to perfect as life can be.

So one can't say a woman who's the CEO in her workplace and the woman/wife/mother/caregiver in her home is not having it all.if anything,it is the dream of most women.

Bigsteveg: Well, dat maybe u..av seen cases of women who are not even managers, who even when dey get home, wanna dictate....check out most of our celebs (i have seen diff cases), most of them are more concerned about their public image dan their home.

cococandy:


this part is not true. Not with the present crop of men floating everywhere now. It's no longer her prerogative. It has become the expected. And MANY men these days WILL and do complain when wifey isn't matching up financially to him. Believe it or not.it is true. So I can undersatnd a wife complaining too when the man isn't helping out in the house. Because we have seen and still keep seeing situations where the man complains wifey isn't helping financially. He expects her to pick up bills too and work.there's nothing wrong with her expecting him to chip in with home keeping too.
All I see with men who do that are those who want to eat their cakes and have it back. Plus some extra.

When they are expecting and even demanding money from wives,they don't remember it is their god-given duty to provide but when it's time to play house because madam is out there making that money they want badly,then they remember it is her role to take care of the home.

That being said,I don't think there should be any fixed rule for that.

Any man who can(for example) cook but won't cook to relieve wifey of stress because he's a man or any woman who has the money but won't pay bills to relieve hubby of the burden just because she's a woman have no business getting married.

bukatyne:

@ Bolded,

What if the couple have a joint account they both must fund? What if the wife must contribute a certain percentage towards the upkeep of the home? Is it still his prerogative to do chores when he 'likes'?

Like 2Buff said in a thread he condemned housewives who were complaining that their husbands did not help them with chores when they go home, marriage is a partnership where the two join hands together to make it work. They may both work/share chores or one works and the other holds the home front.

Anyways, that's why we have courtship; everybody should know themselves and know their intended

crackhaus:
Your post @emboldened is not entirely right.
Pray tell, what is the present crop of men? And did you say MANY will complain about their wives not helping to pay bills?
You can't possibly believe this, because this situation you just described is very much in the minority...thus you can't say MANY.

I believe it. It is true. It is happening

Besides, it's highly probable that it's only a man with a lesser paying job or with no job at all who can openly complain about bills not being paid by his wife.

that's it. Are there not many men with lesser paying jobs? That's your answer. There are many such men and yes they complain. So it is not a thing of minority

I'm honestly yet to come across a working man who would see the bills piling up and wait for his wife to pay it or get angry and complain about her not paying it.

he might complain about her not contributing.

Bukatyne made a good point with the 'mutual agreement' to share bills, but in a case where this agreement Isn't made formally, a normal working man making his money will not fuzz about paying bills...it's not even conceivable.

not concievable to you that is. But have you asked what all the noise about marrying an independent woman is all about?.

You spoke about men wanting to eat their cake and have it? What cake exactly? Having a shared responsibility in paying bills and still leaving the house work to the woman? Is this what you mean?
Well that doesn't even fit logically, because at the end of the day it's the woman while still wants to be treated like a queen after the man decides to help with housework. Now who wants to eat their cake and have it?

everybody wants to eat their cakes and have it. It's human nature

And no you're wrong, MANY men don't complain that their wives don't match up financially to them...as a matter of fact, that's the kind of position MANY men enjoy being in to avoid a woman getting the impression that she brings exactly or close to what he brings into the home.

so I'm still asking what the 'independent' woman thing is all about. That's all I hear from men these days.

As for men who are expecting and demanding money from their wives, again this your theory is very much localized to men with no job or a very little income stream....NO MAN with a job and steady source of income that exceeds that of his wife will expect money from her, not to mention demand...the exception to this is if they both agreed to jointly share a certain task as regards money

.exception? Na. It's the in things.they both agree to share certain tasks as regards money because the man sees the need for her to contribute.

With regards to your last paragraph, a man such as that will still get married...they're getting married everyday and their wives have learned and understood the man they married.

that is correct. So also are women who don't want to spend a dime in their marriages getting married because the (few) men are fine with the arrangement..


So here is a question women find hard to understand...Maybe you can answer it,
"when a man decides that he cannot share household chores with his wife, maybe not explicitly but noticeably...what should/will the woman do about it?"
Let's be realistic here and for once remove the NL cloak.

Do you advice her to divorce or start sulking or start squeezing her face or begin disrespecting her husband because he refused to yield to her?
Will the marriage not go on in peace while that woman finds a way to go about it if it bothers her so much?

It is not a competition, the moment a woman starts to act forcibly and pressuring her husband about chores, that marriage starts on a downward slope...because whether we like it or not, MOST men don't like being told what to do or how to do it especially by their wives.
They may not show it and go ahead to obey for peace sake, but it bothers them within...and the more the wife stresses him over sharing chores, the closer it is for him to start having an excuse to staying out late just to balance out the 'who comes home first' problem. This is even the mild one, some would even become nonchalant and turn a deaf ear to that woman until she gets tired of talking.

you're asking me to answer honestly? Well each case will be treated according to it's own merit.
It's not a big enough issue to cause divorce or that kind of rancour. What should she do?
1) communicate: "honey you don't like to do house work. You hardly take care of anything around the home and you wait for me to get back before anything gets done even though I'm always stressed out and tired from work.even the kids are always unfed,wet nappies and all the week load of laundry is waiting for me.
well I think I can try reducing my work hrs so that I can be home more often to take care of it while you get a better job or 2 jobs even so that you can make enough money to cover for my reduced income"

2: if she is career oriented and can't imagine slowing down or stopping,they get a house keeper. See? Win-win

3: or they both live in the filth. I know one family that does that fine
If the man is above house work. But not making enough to cover should the wife stop work and maybe they can't afford a house keeper,what else can they do?
Live in the filth!

.