adeoladrg:

You brought a brilliant argument, which I expected from a brilliant doctor.

About them consulting, you need to know that consultant status is not exclusively for therapeutic fields, it's very diverse. From community to industry to the psychiatric homes to the hospitals.

Somehow, I'm disappointed with your 7th paragraph. If you were a MD, you would know what they call therapeutic monitoring. I admit it's strange to you Nigerian medics that why I'm not surprised by your ignorant contributions.

The key part of your argument says:
Remember the pharmacist is not making the diagnosis and even if he is brought to see every patient for himself, he isn't trained as a doctor to know the pathophysiology, progression, complications and even varying presentations of the same condition!

Yes! Pharmacists are trained in pathology, pathophysiology, progression, complications of the conditions. For those that acquired the PharmD degree. Then undergoing residency is even more training in that same aspect. Pls use Google!

You yourself have not used the google well... stop stating theoretical situations and show us real life human examples of your hospital consultant pharmacists... not should, could be

bigass:
In other news, The CMD of LUTH Mrs Cassey Agreh, A consultant Nurse, has fired all the Gynecologist in LUTH for insubordination and incompetence owing to refusal of the gynecologists to reply the query she issued them 2 weeks ago. Medical news headlines in few years time

Make all nurses consultants and CMDs We will love it.

You're so fucking stupid its unbelievable. First of all the Chief medical director of luth is prof akin oshibogun . And secondly federal workers are not just fired anyhow ( the most alluring aspect of federal jobs is job security ) so before you start spreading falsehood , get your facts straight

Fernandez01:

You're so fucking stupid its unbelievable. First of all the Chief medical director of luth is prof akin oshibogun . And secondly federal workers are not just fired anyhow ( the most alluring aspect of federal jobs is job security ) so before you start spreading falsehood , get your facts straight

Jesus man cool it. She was being sarcastic.

Nigerian Doctors b Like: leave us alone n let us keep experimenting on our rats(uneducated and powerless patients).
Arrogant cowards.. Killing patients since God knows.. No problem continue.Daris God.
I pray soon enough that medical litigations will take a strong effect in this nation and when most of u (doctors) start losing ur license n cough out big money from ur empty pockets then U will see the need for the expertise of oda health care professionals in achieving improved and wholistitic patient care...

[quote author=speckless]I wonder what kind of spirit that has descended on Nigerian pharmacist of this days. can't imagine an Indian pharmacist thinking this way struggling with doctors in the hospital where their main role is actually a dispenser?
it was initially a title fight pharm wazobia, now they want to be Dr pharm so and so, of late consultant pharm Dr..........
You guys should get busy and focus on drug manufacturing and research.
we are still waiting for oral insulin hmmm.


spread ur mat there...sit and keep waiting for oral insuling. when u ve reduced them to only drug dispenser in ur write up. If their MAIN ROLE, lik u said is to dispens drug then wait no more.

plendil: FIGHT! FIGHT!! FIGHT!!!

E don do naaa. . . Haba!!

This is actually my first post on this matter. I have kept a steady silence, observing from sidelines, [s]not because my babe is a pharmacist - their babes can fine sha!![/s], but because I see the whole episode as totally unnecessary, distracting, and not auguring well for the progress of the health sector.


I think the FG is also not helping matters. Why the apparent silence over the issue? Pls the fighting is enough ooo

lol! Your babe dey deny you punny/?

funny i know of some doctors married to nurses and pharmacist. I wonder if Na so Dem go fight for house. .

among the health people, Na nurses fine pass with dia big yanshes which they always shake. Followed by pharmacists, but una dokinta babes dey worwor shaa

sisiafrika: yes o. We enjoy it dat way, we never complain but some silly. Insecure people won't let us be. If e pain u, commit suicide, d point is, stop killing patients up and down. Certified killers.

r u a pharmacist? That fine profile pic was yours right??

dumodust:
oh... so you admit, why argue like a fool... I bet you're one of those timid , insecure quacks with 'online' mouth...
if u are satisfied with ur dumb mediocrity and national quota job, please remain there beneath me... you can never rise above the people you constantly talk about here... now I guess thats a chilling thought eh

i'm yet to see a happy medical doctor. Dey mostly look sad, dejected and depressed. Tell me why dey won't stagnate d progress of others? I no envy dem o. I even pity most of dem sef. Real pity. I no blame dem, dey thought dey would be rich by studying the course. Sorry! Channel your aGgression towards somewhere else.

adeoladrg:

Unnecessary surgery, wrong prescription, and always referring patients to India.

Only if they took half of the energy they exude hating fellow health professionals to improve their practice, we won't be wasting our money on Indiana trips.

Medical errors are not the exclusive preserve of doctors alone, errors in drug dispensing in the pharmacy department of most hospitals is quite common for the same reasons you adduced for wrong prescriptions by doctors.

Similar researches in better climes have unearth near similar results even though the have better institutional framework. Hence modalities have been drawn to mitigate the risks of medical errors which include Communication, competence, compassion, charting, and confession.

Like one follower of this thread asked, must you be a consultant to detect medical errors( slips and mistakes) ?

Consultants in the medical parlance is a person with a wealth of knowledge in his field of specialization to whom referrals can be made from other consultants or junior doctors. Can this layman definition be applied to a consultant pharmacist with regards to drugs?

On the subject of medical tourism, I believe every man is entitled to seek medical help where ever he or she likes and it does not belittle the expertise of health personel in that country. Afterall American have also been caught in the recent medical tourism to India due to cheap costs of services in India. The late Pharm. Dora is a classic example of medical error from America even when she was correctly diagnose of a malignancy here in Nigeria.

Hahaha....more of this humour more punny n nyasnh the thread ws becoming too boring.
In fact,research shows that nurses have the biggest Nyansh in d health sector.

bjtinz:

lol! Your babe dey deny you punny/?

funny i know of some doctors married to nurses and pharmacist. I wonder if Na so Dem go fight for house. .

among the health people, Na nurses fine pass with dia big yanshes which they always shake. Followed by pharmacists, but una dokinta babes dey worwor shaa

sisiafrika: i'm yet to see a happy medical doctor. Dey mostly look sad, dejected and depressed. Tell me why dey won't stagnate d progress of others? I no envy dem o. I even pity most of dem sef. Real pity. I no blame dem, dey thought dey would be rich by studying the course. Sorry! Channel your aGgression towards somewhere else.

@sisi bring back that pic naa, biko.

FEMIMACRO: Nigerian Doctors b Like: leave us alone n let us keep experimenting on our rats(uneducated and powerless patients).
Arrogant cowards.. Killing patients since God knows.. No problem continue.Daris God.
I pray soon enough that medical litigations will take a strong effect in this nation and when most of u (doctors) start losing ur license n cough out big money from ur empty pockets then U will see the need for the expertise of oda health care professionals in achieving improved and wholistitic patient care...

FEMIMACRO: Nigerian Doctors b Like: leave us alone n let us keep experimenting on our rats(uneducated and powerless patients).
Arrogant cowards.. Killing patients since God knows.. No problem continue.Daris God.
I pray soon enough that medical litigations will take a strong effect in this nation and when most of u (doctors) start losing ur license n cough out big money from ur empty pockets then U will see the need for the expertise of oda health care professionals in achieving improved and wholistitic patient care...

This is sad part. This is probably why they don't want other health professionals to become consultant. Asiri ma tu! All the death coverups would result to revoked licenses. I can't wait.

Mishydoo: Hahaha....more of this humour more punny n nyasnh the thread ws becoming too boring.
In fact,research shows that nurses have the biggest Nyansh in d health sector.

no be lie. Even without research one can easily tell. I was at esut in Enugu recently and i saw where d new recruits at dia school of nursing were being shown around. Meeeen come see bakassi, see figure eight, see boobs dancing up and down.

Na so i come . . .

bjtinz:

lol! Your babe dey deny you punny/?

funny i know of some doctors married to nurses and pharmacist. I wonder if Na so Dem go fight for house. .

among the health people, Na nurses fine pass with dia big yanshes which they always shake. Followed by pharmacists, but una dokinta babes dey worwor shaa

Smh

[quote author=sisiafrika][/quote]

This is the most stupid comment I've read in recent times...
#pathetic!

bjtinz:
lol! Your babe dey deny you punny/?
funny i know of some doctors married to nurses and pharmacist. I wonder if Na so Dem go fight for house. .
among the health people, Na nurses fine pass with dia big yanshes which they always shake. Followed by pharmacists, but una dokinta babes dey worwor shaa

#pervert alert! anyway no prob btwn my babe and me. we have been careful to separate work from romance so no cause for alarm, at least yet.

Just FYI, the nurses uniform naturally accentuates their curves, giving them a more voluptuous look. Female doctors, on the other hand, are usually on their white coats, and so their curves will be hidden from your likes.

@ topic, My concern is this battle has gone on for too long. Taking a peek at the see the kinds of invectives being used at the other NMA vs JOHESU threads is really a cause for concern. Its the type you'd expect to see in the politics section or tribalism section, and my fear is that irreparable damage is being done to the health sector with this protracted bickering.

Govt need to come in urgently and get all parties to dialogue.

Naija doctors are overrated and non of them is worth the title consultant they are fighting to have the exclusive sole right to!!
A lot of people die everyday and this people don't care about their patients. No health worker in nigeria deserves the title consultant. Mtcheewwww

adeoladrg:

Okay, I graduate from a pharmacy school, undergo the compulsory internship and NYSC. Then I got a job in a teaching hospital. While at that, I applied to the West African Postgraduate College of Pharmacy for a specialty in say Paediatrics or CVD. I spend 6 years undergoing the process and graduate from the college.

I noticed you medical doctors are emphasizing the nursing home thing, that's misplaced thinking. The advent of consultant pharmacy started in nursing home, yes! But the roles of consultant pharmacists have since expanded.

You said this urself:

Consultant Pharmacists are now practicing in a
wide variety of other settings, including subacute
care and assisted living facilities, psychiatric
hospitals, hospice programs, and in home and
community-based care --

Go to YouTube and see what obtains, and let me clear another misconception you guys have held on tightly to.

Been a consultant pharmacist doesn't destroy the doctor-patient link. The doctor everywhere is the owner of the patient, as u like to say it. It only makes pharmacist more knowledgeable and be a force in his specialty. Never have I seen or heard that a consultant pharmacist changed a prescription, never! It's not allowed. You guys never even bothered to ask what the synergistic effect takes place. The practice is to confer recommendations on the prescription(myt be change in dose or suggest a more effective drug or delete an unnecessary drug, or correct drug interactions, suggest alternative therapy and lot of other things) with good reason and document the intervention. I tell you what? A doctor must therefore be cocksure of his prescription b4 the pharmacist comes to scrutinize. Those documented interventions are even more dangerous for the arrogant doctors cos if anything worse happens to the patient and the consultant pharmacist decides to publish his recommendation that wasn't taken by the doctor, he could lose his job or even his license.sss

Meanwhile, it's feel different when a doctor seeks an opinion from a consultant pharmacist, other than an ordinary pharmacist who just dispenses.

That's the reality of things. Our doctors want to boss everything, now tell me how this is unnecessary and won't help patient care.

Thanks for your contributions. I don't agree docs are irrational human beings like the world is being made to believe. Most will not refuse quality advice and input to patient care. Even now, I call pharmacist for advice and information but what I get in return is appalling so I've learnt to stop. What obtains in most centres today is health professionals working at cross purposes. There is so much antagonism in the care delivery process with every category in a hurry to assert their superiority. I do not have problems with any one being tagged a consultant in as much as the system requires his/her services but with only ADVISORY roles. This will prevent duplication and/or conflict of roles. The doctors should take responsibility for patient care. Anyone may refuse to get or accept advice to his own peril.
I think the fundamental problem with the JOHESU agitation is in the gang up against doctors and their quest to pull them down to get their demands met. That probably explains NMA's opposition to some of the requests. Doctors won't reasonably stop anyone from progressing, getting to the peak or acquiring more knowledge through the right channels. I will be glad to work with you with your postgraduate fellowship of 6years as a pharmacist once it is for the good of my patient and of course myself. Lol

ogawisdom:

If d doctors prescription is final in all medical conditions then why call a pharmacist a consultant. Wat role exactly is he expected to play or is he looking for titles without role. I believe we r on d same page nw

A doctors prescription is not final. I had a pharmacist recommend/change a different prescription from that of the doctor here in Canada, that was after he asked more questions about my medical history.

bigass:

When did pharmacist become a title?. You are Mr Sesan Kareem.

You are an illiterate madam.

How do you address a Lawyer, Architect?
Mr?

Must you see all titles before you know the right way to addess yourself?

Fernandez01:

You're so fucking stupid its unbelievable. First of all the Chief medical director of luth is prof akin oshibogun . And secondly federal workers are not just fired anyhow ( the most alluring aspect of federal jobs is job security ) so before you start spreading falsehood , get your facts straight

Don't Be too stupid don't tell me you cant understand this? Who says prof akin oshibogun isnt the Current CMd? read everything you will understand i am being futuristic in My statement. Too sad that you didnt get the drift

I had been weeping about our health sector years before this ridiculous arguments started coming to limelight. That has been because our medical practitioners barely face their duties solely. They do their jobs and do jobs meant for others. I have been to hospitals where the medical doctors carried out lab analysis and prescribed drugs to patients ( even nurses do that now), so what becomes the fate of the pharmacists and the lab scientists? I believe that the health sector is so broad to accommodate all health workers, be it a doctor, lab scientist, pharm., medical biotechnologists, public health worker, the list is just too long. But some of the above mentioned professions are marginalized by those who think they are the masters of all. And I think that's the major reason why our health sector is not so successful (besides d problem of awful practice environments). I read a post hear where sum1 typed that only doctors should b commissioners/ministers of health and I shook my head 4 dis country. Sum1 should tell me why a qualified health worker (eg. a well qualified epidemiologist) shouldn't be a minister in his own field of specialization. Lastly: u should be learned enof as medical practitioners 2 knw dat all these insults against yourselves are so irrelevant and doesn't speak well of you. I stand to b corrected if I have spoken wrongly. Thanks.

Acidosis:
You are an illiterate madam.

How do you address a Lawyer, Architect?
Mr?

Must you see all titles before you know the right way to addess yourself?

you are silly.

Aside from Royal titles. The Other Titles you have are Prof, Dr, Mr Mrs Miss And Master
There is nothing like Pharm Arch. Engr etc. You only see these in Nigeria. Please Google is your friend.
Have you ever Seen anywhere while filling forms where you see this titles?

Bros Travel and see whats done where all these professions are imported.
So Teacher should be called Teacher Oluwasola and Scientist,Scientist Bangbose

bigass:

When did pharmacist become a title?. You are Mr Sesan Kareem.

Lol. Na so I see am. Have you seen Builder John Ibu? I have. I'm sure we'll soon have Accountant Timothy Oche and Secretary Sophia Malik.

But the way, your username is turning me on.

adeoladrg:

Okay, I graduate from a pharmacy school, undergo the compulsory internship and NYSC. Then I got a job in a teaching hospital. While at that, I applied to the West African Postgraduate College of Pharmacy for a specialty in say Paediatrics or CVD. I spend 6 years undergoing the process and graduate from the college.

I noticed you medical doctors are emphasizing the nursing home thing, that's misplaced thinking. The advent of consultant pharmacy started in nursing home, yes! But the roles of consultant pharmacists have since expanded.

You said this urself:

Consultant Pharmacists are now practicing in a
wide variety of other settings, including subacute
care and assisted living facilities, psychiatric
hospitals, hospice programs, and in home and
community-based care --

Go to YouTube and see what obtains, and let me clear another misconception you guys have held on tightly to.

Been a consultant pharmacist doesn't destroy the doctor-patient link. The doctor everywhere is the owner of the patient, as u like to say it. It only makes pharmacist more knowledgeable and be a force in his specialty. Never have I seen or heard that a consultant pharmacist changed a prescription, never! It's not allowed. You guys never even bothered to ask what the synergistic effect takes place. The practice is to confer recommendations on the prescription(myt be change in dose or suggest a more effective drug or delete an unnecessary drug, or correct drug interactions, suggest alternative therapy and lot of other things) with good reason and document the intervention. I tell you what? A doctor must therefore be cocksure of his prescription b4 the pharmacist comes to scrutinize. Those documented interventions are even more dangerous for the arrogant doctors cos if anything worse happens to the patient and the consultant pharmacist decides to publish his recommendation that wasn't taken by the doctor, he could lose his job or even his license.

Meanwhile, it's feel different when a doctor seeks an opinion from a consultant pharmacist, other than an ordinary pharmacist who just dispenses.

That's the reality of things. Our doctors want to boss everything, now tell me how this is unnecessary and won't help patient care.

For the 1st time I think someone has said something meaningful and convincing. In view of your explanation above, I think having consultant pharmacist will help improve the quality of healthcare. I just wish the nurses and lab scientists could come up with their own logical reasons too. And honestly, I think the pharmacists (perhaps unknowingly) made a mistake of joining forces with nurses to form JOHESU. I mean, u guys ain't on the same level at all.

bigass:

you are silly.

Aside from Royal titles. The Other Titles you have are Prof, Dr, Mr Mrs Miss And Master
There is nothing like Pharm Arch. Engr etc. You only see these in Nigeria. Please Google is your friend.
Have you ever Seen anywhere while filling forms where you see this titles?

Bros Travel and see whats done where all these professions are imported.

And do you also know that some countries address their Med Doctors as Physicians, why is ours different? and here in Nigeria, even 200l medical students are already claiming the title (we have some of them here on Nairaland).

I am not sure other developing countries address Lawyers (Barr) as Mr.

Besides, since you are wise enough to adopt the title system from the outside world, why do you (and your colleagues) undergo much pain at the sound of "Consultant Pharmacy/Pharmacist"? A term that was coined since 1990 (24years ago).

In year 2000, another branch of pharmacy was coined called "Internet Pharmacy". Its already working for Indians
I am very sure plenty Nigerian physicians will commit suicide if we introduce this system
(lol).

Acidosis:

And do you also know that some countries address their Med Doctors as Physicians, while is ours different? and here in Nigeria, even 200l medical students are already claiming the title (we have some of them here on Nairaland).

I am not sure other developing countries address Lawyers (Barristers) as Mr.

Besides, since you are wise enough to adopt the title system from the outside world, while do you and your colleagues undergo much pain at the sound of "Consultant Pharmacy/Pharmacist"? A term that was coined since 1990 (24years ago).

In year 2000, another branch of pharmacy was coined called "Internet Pharmacy". Its already working for Indians
I am very sure plenty Nigerian physicians will commit suicide if we introduce this system
(lol).

In medicine, You have Physicians Surgeons. Its not Title, Its determined by chosen specialty.

A physician is a professional who practices medicine, which is concerned with promoting, maintaining or restoring human health through the study, diagnosis, and treatment of disease, injury, and other physical and mental impairments.

In medicine, a surgeon is a specialist in surgery. Surgery is a broad category of invasive medical treatment that involves the cutting of a body, whether that of a human or other animal, for a specific reason such as the removal of diseased tissue or to repair a tear or breakage.

i dont have any problems with "Consultant Pharmacy/Pharmacist"

saxywale:
A doctors prescription is not final. I had a pharmacist recommend/change a different prescription from that of the doctor here in Canada, that was after he asked more questions about my medical history.

Nigeria is nt canada

bigass:


In medicine, You have Physicians Surgeons. Its not Title, Its determined by chosen specialty.

A physician is a professional who practices medicine, which is concerned with promoting, maintaining or restoring human health through the study, diagnosis, and treatment of disease, injury, and other physical and mental impairments.

In medicine, a surgeon is a specialist in surgery. Surgery is a broad category of invasive medical treatment that involves the cutting of a body, whether that of a human or other animal, for a specific reason such as the removal of diseased tissue or to repair a tear or breakage.

i dont have any problems with "Consultant Pharmacy/Pharmacist"

alright madam
pls accept my apology
Do take care

Acidosis:
alright madam
pls accept my apology
Do take care

You days will be long, Wow

bigass:

When did pharmacist become a title?. You are Mr Sesan Kareem.

/
The problem of Nigerians is way beyond corruption.
Corruption is external problem. But the internal problems (ego, pride, low self-esteem) supersede all.

Pharm Musa, Arch. Yinka, Alhaji Dotun.

And to crown it all ---Chief (Dr) Alhaji Eng. Festus Kayode Musa. All for one person?

\