In recent times Nigeria have been studded with 'Men of God' men and women alike, each with his own ministry and message. According to their presumed 'calling' and convinctions you see them bear various titles like reverend,pastor,prophet,apostle,grand father and so on; numerous to mention. Needless to add that they all claim to be called by God . I'm not here to critisize anybody, ministry faith or gathering but my question is: how does a man know he is called by God. Please do not hesitate to lend your voice, perhaps your pastor, reverend,prophet etc shared this with you or you even have first hand experience/encounter .It is open to all.

We are all called.

Tallesty1: We are all called.

great , so how did yours happen? Tell us bro

It depends on how you are called, na flash dem flash many people( dem go say na call) . some na hunger make dem dey hear tinz inside dem ear(dem go say na call). d true call na when u see say na Unkown number, u come pick am and d person no talk..know god don call u b dat



@Op, u sef don dey hear call by God shey? u wan begin open church abi? dey plan on how u go take buy jet and open universities abi?

mscheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew

@Op, u sef don dey hear call by God shey? u wan begin open church abi? dey plan on how u go take buy jet and open universities abi?

mscheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew[/quote]hahahaha abegoo. But seriously i need to know

poster, the fact you have to even ask the question means no one is ''called by God'' in the sense you imagine.

sexyseun: It depends on how you are called, na flash dem flash many people( dem go say na call) . some na hunger make dem dey hear tinz inside dem ear(dem go say na call). d true call na when u see say na Unkown number, u come pick am and d person no talk..know god don call u b dat


@Op, u sef don dey hear call by God shey? u wan begin open church abi? dey plan on how u go take buy jet and open universities abi?

mscheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew

Seun,u shud chk ur email..u av a message fm me and if u avnt seen it,u shud chk my profile and send a mail to dat effect,pls..tanks

Please follow this same discourse here: https://www.nairaland.com/1809614/pastor-called

There's nothing like "special" calling for any man in the new testament. Any man that says he's called into ministry is either ignorant or a liar. Every Christian is called but what you're "sent" to do is what differs. A pastor is not a title, neither is a prophet but it is ministry GIFT by Christ to the church.

Also, permit me to say this: 90% of what the institutionalized church taught us is wrong. We need to sit down with the word ourselves and give ourselves to ministry of the word and prayers.

New American Standard Bible
"But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."

King James Bible
But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

Goshen360: Please follow this same discourse here: https://www.nairaland.com/1809614/pastor-called

There's nothing like "special" calling for any man in the new testament. Any man that says he's called into ministry is either ignorant or a liar. Every Christian is called but what you're "sent" to do is what differs. A pastor is not a title, neither is a prophet but it is ministry GIFT by Christ to the church.

Also, permit me to say this: 90% of what the institutionalized church taught us is wrong. We need to sit down with the word ourselves and give ourselves to ministry of the word and prayers.

New American Standard Bible
"But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."

King James Bible
But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

They are ministry gifts but they are also Callings. They are given to some, not all. They are given to some people without their asking as God sees fit, something present with them at birth. Any Calling into the fivefold ministry is the grace of God to the Church.

Everybody is called but very few are chosen by God into the fivefold ministry. You either have it or you don't. You cannot pray to God to make you a Pastor or Prophet when you don't have the Calling. The Calling to teach the body of Christ is a special one reserved for some.

Seek to know the gift(s) God has given you and use it for the benefit of the Body of Christ rather than self.

The fivefold ministry gifts are not more important than the singing gift or serving gift or praying gift God gave to others. They are also callings but what makes them different from ministry Calling is that they do not occupy the position of responsibility as seen in the fivefold ministry gifts.

@ Torchwave, this is coming a bit late but thanx v.much for that insightful explanation. The way u speak u are either a pastor or sometin close. Please if u can, how does one know he has this calling maybe from birth as u claimed or know when he is called or even get called? How are these guys so sure?

DEagle1: In recent times Nigeria have been studded with 'Men of God' men and women alike, each with his own ministry and message. According to their presumed 'calling' and convinctions you see them bear various titles like reverend,pastor,prophet,apostle,grand father and so on; numerous to mention. Needless to add that they all claim to be called by God . I'm not here to critisize anybody, ministry faith or gathering but my question is: how does a man know he is called by God. Please do not hesitate to lend your voice, perhaps your pastor, reverend,prophet etc shared this with you or you even have first hand experience/encounter .It is open to all.

The fact is, all who have heavenly hope are called to that inheritance. The word "calling" is used for these group of anointed ones. The other sheep invitation to true worship is in no way to be exempted though.

This present claim that you are called to be a Pastor or Bishop is a deception. Granted, in the case of Paul, Jesus appointed him specifically for a ministry, but this is not going to be a pattern for all. Secondly, his appointment was to go and preach, not to separate himself and form/build his own church with his wife, with a contradictory doctrine, thereby creating a division among the body of Christ. The gifts are meant to strengthen the body, not to divide it.

Someone being an elder or overseer (which has been given a titular name Bishop/Pastor), is through appointment. 1 Tim 3:1-12 shows the quality one is to possess before appointment as an Elder or Overseer. (Note: a pastor is a spiritual shepherd. In the bible, it is the Elders that are assigned to perform that duty. Elder and Pastor are not meant to be a separate offices. The congregation is cared for by the elders/pastor[b]s[/b] NOT Pastor). So, when someone meets these qualifications as stated in the scriptures, he is appointed as an elder or shepherd/pastor. He does not need to stay and wait for when a "voice" will come and tell him that he has been appointed.

Again, all those saints with a heavenly hope are called into that privilege, to share as rulers with Christ. They also have to preach as ambassadors of Christ and invite others. that is the sense the word is used in the bible. You can not now become a pastor/bishop by special calling. You meet a certain scriptural requirement before you are appointed. Of course, in the beginning of Christianity, it is understandable that Jesus has to select people to start off the work. When Timothy started to preach and became an elder/pastor, Jesus didnt give him a special revelation, rather he accepted the goodnews by Paul, and was latter appointed to be an elder. And none of them went and established there own church, breaking away from there previous church.

Someone will say, didn't the bible say that some were gifted as prophets, evangelizers, shepherds and teachers. Eph 4:11. Yes, when Jesus ascended, he sent out the holy spirit, and people got different gifts. All those who got that holy spirit are called. However, this does not mean that they have all assumed dictatorial offices, nor does it now allow them to go and establish there own churches. No. In fact, when Paul sent Timothy to different congregations to make appointments of elders and "deacons", those he was going to appoint had received the different gifts by virtue of the holy spirit given them when they were born again. Yet, Timothy was going to appoint elders/pastors/shepherds from among them. It is these appointed men that take the lead in teaching and shepherding the "church". If timothy appoints based on the guideline given him, it is believed that God approves of the appointment. This madness of establishing man-and-wife family churches we see these days in the name of calling is so pathetic.

DEagle1: @ Torchwave, this is coming a bit late but thanx v.much for that insightful explanation. The way u speak u are either a pastor or sometin close. Please if u can, how does one know he has this calling maybe from birth as u claimed or know when he is called or even get called? How are these guys so sure?

You're welcome.

DEagle1, I really need you to open your mind just as you did with my previous post because of what I'm about to say.

There are a few ways one can know he or she is called by God into any of the fivefold ministry. Even though they are different methods, what they all share in common is the fact that God initiates them, He is the One who makes you know your Calling through any of the methods. No man can know his Calling by human knowledge.

I shall list the methods for now because listing and explaining them will be lenghty; explanation will be reserved for another post, another time.

The methods:

A. Revelation knowledge from God Himself

B. Personal Prophecy

C. Dream and

D. Vision

All are reliable but the best way to be certain that they are from God is to seek confirmation from other Spirit-filled Christians or Leaders (Pastors, Apostles or Prophets). That way, you can avoid deception.

About the bolded, God knows

Torchwave thanx for sharing that,though not detailed I think it helped.

sexyseun: It depends on how you are called, na flash dem flash many people( dem go say na call) . some na hunger make dem dey hear tinz inside dem ear(dem go say na call). d true call na when u see say na Unkown number, u come pick am and d person no talk..know god don call u b dat



@Op, u sef don dey hear call by God shey? u wan begin open church abi? dey plan on how u go take buy jet and open universities abi?

mscheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew

I've never met an African female skeptic. You guys must be the real silent minority.

torchwave:
The methods:

A. Revelation knowledge from God Himself

B. Personal Prophecy

C. Dream and

D. Vision

How is A different from B?

DEagle1: great , so how did yours happen? Tell us bro

He heard a voice in his head.

torchwave:

They are ministry gifts but they are also Callings. They are given to some, not all. They are given to some people without their asking as God sees fit, something present with them at birth. Any Calling into the fivefold ministry is the grace of God to the Church.

They're ministry GIFT.....and they're also callings. Can it be white and also black? Many things we're wrong taught but we questioned none, that was when we're children. This might be a play on words depending on your understanding but speak bible language.

They are given to some, not all.>>>>>>If they are given to some...what is it? Calling or GIFT? Reconcile this your statement here below:

torchwave:

Everybody is called but very few are chosen by God into the fivefold ministry.

. Each one of the fivefold ministry is A GIFT....for purpose of ministering to God's people. That's why it is called ministry gift. You just said everyone is called....into the one fold and body of Christ but what each person is assigned to do is not the calling anymore because we are all called but it is what we're SENT to do....an assignment within the body we're called into. It's as simple as that.

torchwave:

They are given to some people without their asking as God sees fit, something present with them at birth. Any Calling into the fivefold ministry is the grace of God to the Church.

Grace is what is given to all Christians and if you're saying it is given to some without asking, then you're saying all men have the ministry gift. If they're grace of God to the church, that will mean every Christian is functioning under one fivefold ministry or another but scripture proves you wrong>>>>>>Are they all prophets? Are they all apostles?....they answer is no.

2. It is wrong to measure old testament heroes with the standard of new creatures - Scripture says, without us (who Christ died for), the old testament heroes cannot be complete\made perfect. Hebrews 11:40. You'll have to show a scripture that a new testament believer can have calling from birth, otherwise, I don't buy into that and don't believe such teachings.

torchwave: I said I'd further explain the methods through which God's Calling is known to the people He has chosen, so here it is.

A. Revelation knowledge from God Himself: This means God making known His Calling to the individual. He could choose to talk to the person through an audible voice or through the still small voice; whichever way, He makes His Calling and plans known to the person. In that case, it doesn't matter where the person may be. He or she may be alone or among family or friends or on their way to a place when the voice of God comes into their consciousness, but they (the ones being called) are the only ones who hear the voice.

B. Personal Prophecy: This is the most common method of knowing the mind of God concerning an individual. God's Calling to people can also be known through individuals with the gift of prophecy. He also makes known His Calling or intentions to those He calls through someone operating the gift of prophecy. Like I said, it is the most common method of knowing if one is called or not. For it to be reliable, it should be confirmed by different Christians or Leaders with the same gift of prophecy because in the mouths of two or three witnesses a word is confirmed. @ Weah96, this is where direct revelation knowledge from God differs from personal prophecy though both are from God.

C. Dreams: Another way by which God makes known His Calling to people is through dreams. When they were very young, many Pastors, Apostles Prophets and Evangelists received dreams from God indicating they were called to be servants of God. It is not unusual for them to receive such kind of dreams repeatedly over the years. A very funny fact is that if they were the kind of people who normally have difficulty recalling their dreams after they are awake, they will always recall the dreams related to their Calling accurately.

D. Vision: this is another method by which God makes His Calling known to the individuals He has chosen into the fivefold ministry. The vision usually comes to the individual unexpectedly. The person will not be aware of his surroundings and may find it difficult to understand the meaning of the pictures before him or her, but one thing is certain, he/she will see himself or herself ministering to a large crowd of people, performing healings by the Spirit of God, people rising from wheelchairs, the blind receiving their sight, and many creative miracles taking place in the gathering. Such people would keep their visions to themselves for fear of being labeled crazy and would seek someone they can confide in, someone they can trust to listen to them before they can open up concerning their visions.

No matter the method God chooses to make His Calling known, it is dangerous to rely on your experience alone. You could be walking in the imagination of your heart or, worse, be deceived by a lying spirit. That's why it is pertinent to confirm the Calling through other Spirit-filled Christian Leaders to be safe and certain of the Calling from God. Remember, the Word says, 'In the multitude of counselors, there is safety.'

DEagle1, once again you're welcome. I hope this explanation of the methods is helpful in understanding how God calls people into the ministry.

All of these said void of one single bible verse? You try no be small.

Goshen360:

They're ministry GIFT.....and they're also callings. Can it be white and also black? Many things we're wrong taught but we questioned none, that was when we're children. This might be a play on words depending on your understanding but speak bible language.


They are given to some, not all.>>>>>>If they are given to some...what is it? Calling or GIFT? Reconcile this your statement here below:

To begin, a gift is different from a Calling. The fact that God gave you the gift of speaking in tongues does not mean you have the Call to be an Evangelist or a Prophet. A gift is something given to you to be used for the profit of others i.e singing, mercy, serving, giving. If God gave you a gift, like His Calling, He expects you to use the gift. A Calling, on the other hand, is a duty God wants a person to perform. Everybody has a calling, the duty to preach Christ. We are all called to preach Christ to the world because it is the great Commission. EVERYBODY is called to preach Christ, to show love to others, to forgive.

HOWEVER, NOT everyone is called into the fivefold ministry. It is specially reserved for the people God has chosen to occupy the different positions of leadership and ministerial responsibility in the Church. God made it clear in Ephesians 4:11 which says, "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" that it is not everybody that is called to occupy a ministry office. Ephesians 4:11 did not say, "And he gave all, apostles; and all, prophets; and all, evangelists; and all, pastors and teachers;"

Each one of the fivefold ministry is A GIFT....for purpose of ministering to God's people. That's why it is called ministry gift. You just said everyone is called....into the one fold and body of Christ but what each person is assigned to do is not the calling anymore because we are all called but it is what we're SENT to do....an assignment within the body we're called into. It's as simple as that.

This is where you are confused. Each one of the fivefold ministry is a gift to the Church in the sense of grace. It is first of all grace to the Church before any other thing. All gifts and Callings are grace to the Church. What does it say in the book of Ephesians 4:8 - "Therefore He says: 'When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men.' Did it say, 'and gave gifts to the ministry?' They are ministry gifts but GIVEN to some PEOPLE! Not ALL! Why did Jesus give the gifts to some people? For the equipping of the saints, for the WORK of the MINISTRY, and for the edifying of the body of Christ. Now, when God gives someone a Calling into any of the fivefold ministry, He chooses the gift among the five ministry offices to give the individual according to His purpose and design. This really does not need much explanation to understand. Just as in the Old Testament, not everyone was called to be a Prophet or Priest, it is the same in the New Testament.

I think you might want to rethink the bolded in your post I quoted. If what we are assigned to do, a duty, is no longer calling then what is it? Are you trying to say God has or did not send everybody to preach the gospel all over the world? When someone is given an assignment to perform a task or a mission, does it not suggest the person is sent to perform a task? Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah, etc were sent by God, called as Prophets to perform duty for God which became their mission or assignment. Same for Peter, Paul, James, the disciples. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ASSIGNMENT AND CALLING. The only difference between the general calling to everybody and the specific Calling to certain people is the role of leadership in the Church they occupy which is connected to the reason Jesus Christ gave gifts to some men in Ephesians 4:12. We all have assignment from God; we are all sent into the world to preach Christ but few are specifically sent to be shepherds of the flock of Christ who is the good Shepherd.

Grace is what is given to all Christians and if you're saying it is given to some without asking, then you're saying all men have the ministry gift. If they're grace of God to the church, that will mean every Christian is functioning under one fivefold ministry or another but scripture proves you wrong>>>>>>Are they all prophets? Are they all apostles?....they answer is no.

Obviously you misunderstand the meaning of grace. Grace is God's favour and blessing. It is a gift to the body of Christ and to the Church. It is undeserved that is why it is grace. Grace does not mean ministry gift but it also manifests as ministry gift to the Church of Christ. Grace can be anything, any blessing from God to man.

]2. It is wrong to measure old testament heroes with the standard of new creatures - Scripture says, without us (who Christ died for), the old testament heroes cannot be complete\made perfect. Hebrews 11:40. You'll have to show a scripture that a new testament believer can have calling from birth, otherwise, I don't buy into that and don't believe such teachings.

Really? So Old Testament servants of God like Jeremiah and Isaiah were called from birth while New Testament believers are called from...please remind me again. What God told Jeremiah is the same thing He told Paul, Peter and the disciples, it is the same thing He tells His chosen leaders in the Church past and present, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you came to birth I consecrated you; I appointed you as prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5)

@torchwave

Review the subject once more. People are called to be Christians, saints. But the different gifts like speaking in tongue, healing etc, are not calling, but a gift meant to strengthen build up the body and for preaching the goodnews. And this gifts are received when someone is baptised by the spirit, not when someone has been a particular church for a long time, he will say he is called. Next, you see him establishing his own church.

How can Jer. 1:5 apply to all, are all servants of God to be prophets to the nations from birth? And dont choose what you like from that scripture and leave the other. Their are words that are specifically meant for some people, it will be wrong to use it for all. Nowhere did God say the same thing to Paul, Peter, and others. However, remember that God said what he did because he used His foreknowledge in his case. He knows he would be a prophet, but he actually became the prophet after he heard God's voice, not before. There is no way you can use the method used on the OT prophets to compare what happens to Christians who are baptized with water and spirit.

Please try and research how the bible used the word "calling", if not this discussion wont end. Quote where the bible used calling to refer to the gift. Ephesians you quoted show it to be a gift not a calling.

torchwave: I said I'd further explain the methods through which God's Calling is known to the people He has chosen, so here it is.

A. Revelation knowledge from God Himself: This means God making known His Calling to the individual. He could choose to talk to the person through an audible voice or through the still small voice; whichever way, He makes His Calling and plans known to the person. In that case, it doesn't matter where the person may be. He or she may be alone or among family or friends or on their way to a place when the voice of God comes into their consciousness, but they (the ones being called) are the only ones who hear the voice.

B. Personal Prophecy: This is the most common method of knowing the mind of God concerning an individual. God's Calling to people can also be known through individuals with the gift of prophecy. He also makes known His Calling or intentions to those He calls through someone operating the gift of prophecy. Like I said, it is the most common method of knowing if one is called or not. For it to be reliable, it should be confirmed by different Christians or Leaders with the same gift of prophecy because in the mouths of two or three witnesses a word is confirmed. @ Weah96, this is where direct revelation knowledge from God differs from personal prophecy though both are from God.

C. Dreams: Another way by which God makes known His Calling to people is through dreams. When they were very young, many Pastors, Apostles Prophets and Evangelists received dreams from God indicating they were called to be servants of God. It is not unusual for them to receive such kind of dreams repeatedly over the years. A very funny fact is that if they were the kind of people who normally have difficulty recalling their dreams after they are awake, they will always recall the dreams related to their Calling accurately.

D. Vision: this is another method by which God makes His Calling known to the individuals He has chosen into the fivefold ministry. The vision usually comes to the individual unexpectedly. The person will not be aware of his surroundings and may find it difficult to understand the meaning of the pictures before him or her, but one thing is certain, he/she will see himself or herself ministering to a large crowd of people, performing healings by the Spirit of God, people rising from wheelchairs, the blind receiving their sight, and many creative miracles taking place in the gathering. Such people would keep their visions to themselves for fear of being labeled crazy and would seek someone they can confide in, someone they can trust to listen to them before they can open up concerning their visions.

No matter the method God chooses to make His Calling known, it is dangerous to rely on your experience alone. You could be walking in the imagination of your heart or, worse, be deceived by a lying spirit. That's why it is pertinent to confirm the Calling through other Spirit-filled Christian Leaders to be safe and certain of the Calling from God. Remember, the Word says, 'In the multitude of counselors, there is safety.'

DEagle1, once again you're welcome. I hope this explanation of the methods is helpful in understanding how God calls people into the ministry.

100 likes for u, u too much

JMAN05:

Please try and research how the bible used the word "calling", if not this discussion wont end. Quote where the bible used calling to refer to the gift. Ephesians you quoted show it to be a gift not a calling.

Thank you bro. The brother you talking to is just not getting it so I stopped talking to him. In today's Christianity, people "choose" what they want to believe and discard the truth in their face. Many had been wrongly taught but refused to admit the fact they're wrongly taught but will never take a second thought to pause and take a second look by themselves when they become mature in the faith. I was also taught the same thing torchwave was teaching and I can recognize it.

A. Revelation knowledge from God Himself: This means God making known His Calling to the individual. He could choose to talk to the person through an audible voice or through the still small voice; whichever way, He makes His Calling and plans known to the person. In that case, it doesn't matter where the person may be. He or she may be alone or among family or friends or on their way to a place when the voice of God comes into their consciousness, but they (the ones being called) are the only ones who hear the voice.

@torchwave

I am yet to come across where God says He will speak in any voice to any Christian today.. If you know of one, please let me know.

I have other questions for you, but I will keep it for later, prolly after I am clear with this. Thanks

Goshen360:

Thank you bro. The brother you talking to is just not getting it so I stopped talking to him. In today's Christianity, people "choose" what they want to believe and discard the truth in their face. Many had been wrongly taught but refused to admit the fact they're wrongly taught but will never take a second thought to pause and take a second look by themselves when they become mature in the faith. I was also taught the same thing torchwave was teaching and I can recognize it.

I want to ask you a question. How do people discover their gifts and Callings? If you have answered that before, please be kind to do that once again. I'd really appreciate it. I decided to let the argument with JMAN05 rest because I also perceived it would be endless.

shdemidemi:

@torchwave

I am yet to come across where God says He will speak in any voice to any Christian today.. If you know of one, please let me know.

I have other questions for you, but I will keep it for later, prolly after I am clear with this. Thanks

You are convinced God spoke in the past but He is dumb today, right?

torchwave: You are convinced God spoke in the past but He is dumb today, right?

No, He isn't dumb today but He speaks through His Word(Jesus)
Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Please show me where He promised to speak to you or me today through any voice.

Goshen360: Please follow this same discourse here: https://www.nairaland.com/1809614/pastor-called

There's nothing like "special" calling for any man in the new testament. Any man that says he's called into ministry is either ignorant or a liar. Every Christian is called but what you're "sent" to do is what differs. A pastor is not a title, neither is a prophet but it is ministry GIFT by Christ to the church.

Also, permit me to say this: 90% of what the institutionalized church taught us is wrong. We need to sit down with the word ourselves and give ourselves to ministry of the word and prayers.

New American Standard Bible
"But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."

King James Bible
But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAD MISSED CALL.
The question is 'how does one know that he/she is call by God'? Stop blabbing, go straight to the point if you have any.

torchwave: You're welcome.

DEagle1, I really need you to open your mind just as you did with my previous post because of what I'm about to say.

There are a few ways one can know he or she is called by God into any of the fivefold ministry. Even though they are different methods, what they all share in common is the fact that God initiates them, He is the One who makes you know your Calling through any of the methods. No man can know his Calling by human knowledge.

I shall list the methods for now because listing and explaining them will be lenghty; explanation will be reserved for another post, another time.

The methods:

A. Revelation knowledge from God Himself

B. Personal Prophecy

C. Dream and

D. Vision

All are reliable but the best way to be certain that they are from God is to seek confirmation from other Spirit-filled Christians or Leaders (Pastors, Apostles or Prophets). That way, you can avoid deception.

About the bolded, God knows

EXCELLENT!
THANK YOU!!
BUT,
what is fivefold ministry, sir.

^^^cool it down for this your excellent remarks oo... There are holes in the 'excellent' piece that needs filling up.

Goshen360:

They're ministry GIFT.....and they're also callings. Can it be white and also black? Many things we're wrong taught but we questioned none, that was when we're children. This might be a play on words depending on your understanding but speak bible language.

They are given to some, not all.>>>>>>If they are given to some...what is it? Calling or GIFT? Reconcile this your statement here below:

. Each one of the fivefold ministry is A GIFT....for purpose of ministering to God's people. That's why it is called ministry gift. You just said everyone is called....into the one fold and body of Christ but what each person is assigned to do is not the calling anymore because we are all called but it is what we're SENT to do....an assignment within the body we're called into. It's as simple as that.



Grace is what is given to all Christians and if you're saying it is given to some without asking, then you're saying all men have the ministry gift. If they're grace of God to the church, that will mean every Christian is functioning under one fivefold ministry or another but scripture proves you wrong>>>>>>Are they all prophets? Are they all apostles?....they answer is no.

2. It is wrong to measure old testament heroes with the standard of new creatures - Scripture says, without us (who Christ died for), the old testament heroes cannot be complete\made perfect. Hebrews 11:40. You'll have to show a scripture that a new testament believer can have calling from birth, otherwise, I don't buy into that and don't believe such teachings.

YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN!

The spirit of the Almighty God in me agrees and bears witness with TORCHWAVE's position and totally disagree with your defensive position. Scripture or no scripture, he's on point. Its people like you that repent today and in two weeks time, he'll start dragging pulpit with the pastor that he's been called by God.

shdemidemi:

No, He isn't dumb today but He speaks through His Word(Jesus)
Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Please show me where He promised to speak to you or me today through any voice.

I'll show you, not just one but five promises of God to speak to us through His Spirit today:

John 14:26  But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:3 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

2 Corinthians 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Revelation 2:7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says...

I have more Scriptures to prove that God wants and is perfectly capable of speaking to us today as He did yesterday but these should be enough. I shall not go into details because they are pretty self-explanatory, however, I shall briefly dwell on 2 Corinthians 13:14. The word 'fellowship' is what I want to draw your attention. What does it mean to fellowship with the Holy Spirit? How do you fellowship with the Holy spirit? It is a deep subject that will require much space which I'm sorry I do not have at the moment.

That notwithstanding, I shall not leave you without an idea what that verse means because it is germane to this discussion as well as proving the fact that God speaks (just as He promised) to us today.

In a nutshell, fellowship with the Holy Spirit simply means friendship, companionship with the Holy spirit. I hear you ask how I arrived at that meaning. Let me put it this way, when the Bible said we should fellowship with each other, what did the Scriptures mean by that? We come together, know each other, help each other, praise God together, read and listen to the Word of God, listen and talk to each other as friends, brothers, companions...we no longer become strangers but friends and friends know and talk to each other. That is EXACTLY what it means to fellowship with the Holy Spirit. We develop friendship with Him, we TALK and listen to each other, He helps us because He is our Helper, He teaches us the Word of God, we know each other, do things together, pray to God together, praise God together...that is basically what 2 corinthians 13:14 means.

Are you convinced or there are some questions that still linger in your mind? Please feel free to air your opinion.