This is in response to your statement that you're always sincere in your discussions with me.

Well, this is my own way of testing if you can actually be consistently sincere.

1. What is your opinion of the Catholic Church, its doctrine... and actively practising Catholics?

Following

*spreads hausa mat*

I was here

SalC: I was here

we were here

KiddaBlingzz: we were here

Ok

italo: This is in response to your statement that you're always sincere in your discussions with me.

Well, this is my own way of testing if you can actually be consistently sincere.

1. What is your opinion of the Catholic Church, its doctrine... and actively practising Catholics?

Hmm, testing my sincerity? U definitely know this won't work 'cos ur summation would only be based on my agreement or disagreement with u, bt i will oblige u anyways n leave others to judge us both.

My tot on catholism; I believe, though from history, that it was the only church there was then n it started well, bt when the papacy started ursurping the sovereign authority then things started getting out of hand. Then anyone n everyone that goes contrary to the church govt was termed heretic n burned in the stake, anyways that's a can of worm no one wants to open.

But along the line idolatry came in, whereby saints are being venerated n statues erected in their honor taking the place of Christ n Holy Ghost, also Mary became more important than Christ n prayers must pass thru her for it to be legitimate. The bible no longer became the final authority bt some several other write ups by the popes n some peeps with some oral traditions passed down.

There is so much to say bt let me stop here, now its not like i don't see faithful practicing Catholics as xtians, at least the sincere ones 'cos i have met quite a few n they are good people. Bt this doesn't change all those unscriptural doctrines practiced in the church which are detrimental to the soul.

U asked for my opinion n I sincerely gave (though few) what I think n know about catholism which not just me bt many.

So u judge my sincerity according to ow I agree with u? Bt remember this is a public forum n many are reading our posts.

*observing*

Following.

Perhaps, I'll contribute...if need be.



Thanks for the invite, Italo.

PastorOluT:

Hmm, testing my sincerity? U definitely know this won't work 'cos ur summation would only be based on my agreement or disagreement with u, bt i will oblige u anyways n leave others to judge us both.

My tot on catholism; I believe, though from history, that it was the only church there was then n it started well, bt when the papacy started ursurping the sovereign authority then things started getting out of hand. Then anyone n everyone that goes contrary to the church govt was termed heretic n burned in the stake, anyways that's a can of worm no one wants to open.

But along the line idolatry came in, whereby saints are being venerated n statues erected in their honor taking the place of Christ n Holy Ghost, also Mary became more important than Christ n prayers must pass thru her for it to be legitimate. The bible no longer became the final authority bt some several other write ups by the popes n some peeps with some oral traditions passed down.

There is so much to say bt let me stop here, now its not like i don't see faithful practicing Catholics as xtians, at least the sincere ones 'cos i have met quite a few n they are good people. Bt this doesn't change all those unscriptural doctrines practiced in the church which are detrimental to the soul.

U asked for my opinion n I sincerely gave (though few) what I think n know about catholism which not just me bt many.

So u judge my sincerity according to ow I agree with u? Bt remember this is a public forum n many are reading our posts.

SMH,YOU TALK ABOUT HHISTORY AS IF DEM DON BORN YOU THEN, YOU NEVER WITHNESSED HOW "CATHOLICS BURNT DOWN HERETICS".
YOU SIMPLY BELIVED IT BECAUSE YOUR PROTESTANT PASTORS TOLD YOU THOSE TALES TO PAINT CATHOLICCS BLACK AND YOU HURRIDLY BELIVED IT .

tobechi20:


SMH,YOU TALK ABOUT HHISTORY AS IF DEM DON BORN YOU THEN, YOU NEVER WITHNESSED HOW "CATHOLICS BURNT DOWN HERETICS".
YOU SIMPLY BELIVED IT BECAUSE YOUR PROTESTANT PASTORS TOLD YOU THOSE TALES TO PAINT CATHOLICCS BLACK AND YOU HURRIDLY BELIVED IT .

do you even know what "protestant" means and why it was used to address 19th century Christians then. In this age and time, you don't have to be born in an era to be well versed in the history of events that took place at that time. Google is your friend.

PastorOluT:

Hmm, testing my sincerity? U definitely know this won't work 'cos ur summation would only be based on my agreement or disagreement with u, bt i will oblige u anyways n leave others to judge us both.

My tot on catholism; I believe, though from history, that it was the only church there was then n it started well, bt when the papacy started ursurping the sovereign authority then things started getting out of hand. Then anyone n everyone that goes contrary to the church govt was termed heretic n burned in the stake, anyways that's a can of worm no one wants to open.

But along the line idolatry came in, whereby saints are being venerated n statues erected in their honor taking the place of Christ n Holy Ghost, also Mary became more important than Christ n prayers must pass thru her for it to be legitimate. The bible no longer became the final authority bt some several other write ups by the popes n some peeps with some oral traditions passed down.

There is so much to say bt let me stop here, now its not like i don't see faithful practicing Catholics as xtians, at least the sincere ones 'cos i have met quite a few n they are good people. Bt this doesn't change all those unscriptural doctrines practiced in the church which are detrimental to the soul.

U asked for m y opinion n I sincerely gave (though few) what I think n know about catholism which not just me bt many.

So u judge my sincerity according to ow I agree with u? Bt remember this is a public forum n many are reading our posts.

Thanks for your reply. Just to let you know that I have no problem whatsoever with people with differing opinions from mine. What I have a problem with is insincerity and hypocrisy.

Allow me to ask you more questions based on this reply of yours.

1. When you say the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed, you agree it was founded by Jesus Christ?

2. You claim the Church was good until the Papacy ruined it. When did this happen? Give us a date or a timeframe at least...and tell us where you got the information from.

3. Are you serious and sincere when you say "anyone" against the papacy was burned? If you are, please give us the date the papacy went bad and I will provide evidence that what you said is false.

4. You said idolatry came in with veneration of saints. Give us the date when this came in.

5. where did you learn that Mary and statues take God's place...and who told you that prayers must pass through Mary to be legitimate and that she became more important than Christ to the Catholic Church? Pls tell us where the Catholic Church teaches that?

6. You said "The bible no longer became the final authority." Please tell us the date the bible came about, who brought about it, and when was the Bible ever the final authority?

Thanks.

voxpopp: do you even know what "protestant" means and why it was used to address 19th century Christians then. In this age and time, you don't have to be born in an era to be well versed in the history of events that took place at that time. Google is your friend.

Protestantism started centuries before the 19th century.

You see that you can use google yet be wrong?

It depends on what sources you're learning from.

adsonstone: Following.

Perhaps, I'll contribute...if need be.



Thanks for the invite, Italo.

You're welcome. Pls feel free.

italo:

Thanks for your reply. Just to let you know that I have no problem whatsoever with people with differing opinions from mine. What I have a problem with is insincerity and hypocrisy.

Allow me to ask you more questions based on this reply of yours.

1. When you say the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed, you agree it was founded by Jesus Christ?

2. You claim the Church was good until the Papacy ruined it. When did this happen? Give us a date or a timeframe at least...and tell us where you got the information from.

3. Are you serious and sincere when you say "anyone" against the papacy was burned? If you are, please give us the date the papacy went bad and I will provide evidence that what you said is false.

4. You said idolatry came in with veneration of saints. Give us the date when this came in.

5. where did you learn that Mary and statues take God's place...and who told you that prayers must pass through Mary to be legitimate and that she became more important than Christ to the Catholic Church? Pls tell us where the Catholic Church teaches that?

6. You said "The bible no longer became the final authority." Please tell us the date the bible came about, who brought about it, and when was the Bible ever the final authority?

Thanks.

Yes Mr Arguementator.Let the arguement begin.Sincerity my foot.I wouldn't waste my time if I were pastor Olu.We are on another "repeat" while this section is filled with it.

italo:

Thanks for your reply. Just to let you know that I have no problem whatsoever with people with differing opinions from mine. What I have a problem with is insincerity and hypocrisy.

Allow me to ask you more questions based on this reply of yours.

1. When you say the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed, you agree it was founded by Jesus Christ?

2. You claim the Church was good until the Papacy ruined it. When did this happen? Give us a date or a timeframe at least...and tell us where you got the information from.

3. Are you serious and sincere when you say "anyone" against the papacy was burned? If you are, please give us the date the papacy went bad and I will provide evidence that what you said is false.

4. You said idolatry came in with veneration of saints. Give us the date when this came in.

5. where did you learn that Mary and statues take God's place...and who told you that prayers must pass through Mary to be legitimate and that she became more important than Christ to the Catholic Church? Pls tell us where the Catholic Church teaches that?

6. You said "The bible no longer became the final authority." Please tell us the date the bible came about, who brought about it, and when was the Bible ever the final authority?

Thanks.

This is funny, asking me to provide dates n time to all these well known facts? Anyways ow I got to know them is not hearsay bt what I read myself over the years, i have read different write ups over the years bt would mention the few I remembered. The foxes book of martyrs among many others, bt as for the acts of the papacy, got info from many different places even online.

Bt wait are u arguing that these things never took place during the dark years? Even the catholic church never denied it 'cos its an open fact what was done during those period n no one wants to go into that.

Coming to the present about the veneration of saints, Mary, n statues, I am confused what evidence u need here 'cos everyone sees this. Even in some faithful houses u find all sort of statues which they bow to n kiss. Or is it the prayer? 'oh Mary mother of God pray for us sinners' does this not clearly negate the scriptures? Yet millions of adherents make this prayer daily. Does the bible not expressly say we have only one mediator which is Christ Jesus?

So u want proofs as to exactly when all these started, I tell u d truth, I don't know when exactly bt I sure know they are. Even if u counterclaim yesteryears events, what about what is happening now that I have listed?

Who knows maybe if Christ tarries n u die someday u will be venerated n people will ask u pray for them sinners? 'cos as it were anyone can become a saint.

tobechi20:


SMH,YOU TALK ABOUT HHISTORY AS IF DEM DON BORN YOU THEN, YOU NEVER WITHNESSED HOW "CATHOLICS BURNT DOWN HERETICS".
YOU SIMPLY BELIVED IT BECAUSE YOUR PROTESTANT PASTORS TOLD YOU THOSE TALES TO PAINT CATHOLICCS BLACK AND YOU HURRIDLY BELIVED IT .

Hmm, so they must have given birth to me before I talk about history, so pls why do people study history?

So much for all these overzealous impulsive kids on NL, this might be one of the reason I will be opting out of the thread. Bt i will be honoring Italo by continuing as long he doesn't follow this kind of rationale.

PastorOluT:

Hmm, so they must have given birth to me before I talk about history, so pls why do people study history?

So much for all these overzealous impulsive kids on NL, this might be one of the reason I will be opting out of the thread. Bt i will be honoring Italo by continuing as long he doesn't follow this kind of rationale.

Pastor Olu it amaze me that you believe the crap that the catholic church is the first church.what i know is that the first church started in the book of Acts when the disciples of Christ recieved the Holy ghost.The Catholic church we know today was founded in Rome.

lastmessenger:
Pastor Olu it amaze me that you believe the crap that the catholic church is the first church.what i know is that the first church started in the book of Acts when the disciples of Christ recieved the Holy ghost.The Catholic church we know today was founded in Rome.

No don't get me wrong, what I meant by the first church was that it was the only available church after the first century church that was started by d Apostles in the book of Acts.

It even surprised me ow it all phased out n came into one as they were many as at the time of creation? Well I believe there is so much to history that isn't recorded.

lastmessenger:
Pastor Olu it amaze me that you believe the crap that the catholic church is the first church.what i know is that the first church started in the book of Acts when the disciples of Christ recieved the Holy ghost.The Catholic church we know today was founded in Rome.

Thank you my brother. You have said it all. I knew this thread will go this way. With this truth you have said, I hereby exit the thread with joy in my heart. God bless you.

PastorOluT:

No don't get me wrong, what I meant by the first church was that it was the only available church after the first century church that was started by d Apostles in the book of Acts.

It even surprised me ow it all phased out n came into one as they were many as at the time of creation? Well I believe there is so much to history that isn't recorded.

Ok.i understand the angle you are coming from but like i said earlier,the first church was founded by Jesus christ and it took off in Jerusalem,then when paul came he was given the mandate to go and preach to the Gentiles.

italo:

Protestantism started centuries before the 19th century.

You see that you can use google yet be wrong?

It depends on what sources you're learning from.

that is irrelevant to the point am trying to make and besides, I didn't google it, just said off the top of my head. The protestant movement was born out of the fact that the orthodox people turned themselves into blood thirsty dictators and most of their teachings and practises were not fully grounded in the bible.

alexleo:

Thank you my brother. You have said it all. I knew this thread will go this way. With this truth you have said, I hereby exit the thread with joy in my heart. God bless you.

YOU CAN ONY COUNTER IT BY GIVING US THE NAME OF THE CHURCH WHICH PRECEDED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.IF YOU SAY THE CHURCH OF THE APOSTLES ,I HOPE YOU DONT MIND RFFERING ME TO WHERE I MAY FND I TODAY.IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE CLAIMS OR REFUTALS,RATHER ADDUCE HISTORICAL FACTS

voxpopp: that is irrelevant to the point am trying to make and besides, I didn't google it, just said off the top of my head. The protestant movement was born out of the fact that the orthodox people turned themselves into blood thirsty dictators and most of their teachings and practises were not fully grounded in the bible.

Both protestants and catholics alike were guilty of persecution of one another.The inquisition was not restricted to the catholic church alaone as protestants equally persecuted their opponents.Key protestantleaders including Martin Luther had their hands soiled in blood.You may chose to google the anti-semitic book "on the jews and tehir lies" written by martin luther

lastmessenger:
Ok.i understand the angle you are coming from but like i said earlier,the first church was founded by Jesus christ and it took off in Jerusalem,then when paul came he was given the mandate to go and preach to the Gentiles.

the churches the apostles founded where is it today?

PastorOluT:

No don't get me wrong, what I meant by the first church was that it was the only available church after the first century church that was started by d Apostles in the book of Acts.

It even surprised me ow it all phased out n came into one as they were many as at the time of creation? Well I believe there is so much to history that isn't recorded.

they didnt phase out.St Ignatius of Anthioch in 107 CE was the first person to apply the term Catholic to descrbe the entire church.later the name stuck and the church came to be known as the catholic church to seperate it from the heretics of the second,third and fourth centuries.But at inception,the name catholic church was not meant to be used as a debomination.

The catholic church today is a contunation of the Nt church you have in your bible.We can provide an unbroken line of succession from the apostles to the present pope.

My tot on catholism; I believe, though from history, that it was the only church there was then n it started well, bt when the papacy started ursurping the sovereign authority then things started getting out of hand. Then anyone n everyone that goes contrary to the church govt was termed heretic n burned in the stake, anyways that's a can of worm no one wants to open.

The papacy was created by christ himself.He created the church on the authourity of the apostle Peter,the authourity was never usurped but has been there right from the creation of the church.it is this same authourity that has been passed down over the years

The bible no longer became the final authority bt some several other write ups by the popes n some peeps with some oral traditions passed down.

THE BIBLE DID NOT EXIST FOR ALMOST 400 YEARS AFTER THE CHURCH BEGAN.THE IDEA OF SOLA BIBLE IS NOT A SCRIPTURAL TEACHING,IT WAS A CREATION OF MARTIN LUTHER.IT WAS EVEN THE ORAL TRADITION THAT FURTHER DEFINED THE BIBLE BY GIVING US THE NAMES OF SOME BIBLE AUTHOURS WHO WERE ANONYMOUS LIKE THE ENTIRE GOSPELS AND THE LISTS OF BOOKS TO BE INCLUDED IN THE BIBLE AMONGST THE MYRIADS OF WRITINGS THAT WAS THEN EXTANT.

THERE IS NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE THAT BIBLE ALONE DOCTRINE IS TAUGHT.THE BIBLE EVEN TELLS YOU IT DOES NOT CONTAIN EVERYTHING AND QUOTES AND REFERS US TO BOOKS OUTSIDE THE BIBLE

Mary became more important than Christ n prayers must pass thru her for it to be legitimate

THIS IS A FIGMENT OF YOUR IMAGINATIONS AND NOT A TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

chukwudi44:
Both protestants and catholics alike were guilty of persecution of one another.The inquisition was not restricted to the catholic church alaone as protestants equally persecuted their opponents.Key protestantleaders including Martin Luther had their hands soiled in blood.You may chose to google the anti-semitic book "on the jews and tehir lies" written by martin luther

The Holy Inquisitions
The Church
"Anyone who attempts to construe a personal
view of God which conflicts with Church
dogma must be burned without pity."
- Pope Innocent III
The Inquisition was an ecclesiastical court and
process of the Roman Catholic Church setup for
the purpose towards the discovery and
punishment of heresy which wielded immense
power and brutality in medieval and early modern
times. The Inquisitions function was principally
assembled to repress all heretics of rights,
depriving them of their estate and assets which
became subject to the ownership of the Catholic
treasury, with each relentlessly sought to destroy
anyone who spoke, or even thought differently to
the Catholic Church. This system for close to over
six centuries became the legal framework
throughout most of Europe that orchestrated one
of the most confound religious orders in the
course of mankind.

The inquisition put their victims to the test using the rack

Most defendants confessed in the long run in order to escape the great anguish and bitter torture.

Once found guilty (regardless) they were
handed over to the civil authorities to be
"relaxed" (that is of course, burnt alive)


The basis and foundation of roman catholism to me is purely political. It is not a pure form of christianity

Read more here

www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm