kpawoosay: 11:52am
Hi pals. I was going through a thread that
discussed about the sinful nature of donating egg
or sperm to sperm bank. the arguments there
was so intense that it finally became a choice
that pleases the mind. They mentioned that for a
child to grow in a womb of a woman. that must
come from a union of male an female which is
marriage. and also for you to give out your sperm
dat maybe misused and even if a child is been
created but u dont have the knowledge and the
condition of the child whether the child is been
brought up Godly. then it has become a sin.
Then I tel u. if sperm donation to couples dat are
in need of it is a sin,then donation of blood
should become a sin too. instead of splitting it on
the ground or inside condom for nothing but
waste.
we should be thankful to science and technology
dat has aided in savin marriages that couldn't
have offsprings due to one handicap or the other.
that my own view.

I believe for now it is wrong to donate such.

striktlymi: I believe for now it is wrong to donate such.

why? the self-service?

striktlymi: I believe for now it is wrong to donate such.

Valid logical Reason?

AlfaSeltzer:

why? the self-service?

That is the least of the issues I have with the donation. I am almost certain that one can get access to another's semen without the need for m*sturbation. My concern is actually the implication it has for IVF.

Apatheist:
Valid logical Reason?

The question was direct. I don't see why I can't give a direct answer without the need to grace my answer with an explanation.

striktlymi:

That is the least of the issues I have with the donation. I am almost certain that one can get access to another's semen without the need for m*sturbation. My concern is actually the implication it has for IVF.

the same implication as if he bleeped the woman.

striktlymi:

The question was direct. I don't see why I can't give a direct answer without the need to grace my answer with an explanation.

I am not the OP.
I'm asking in my capacity.
Why do you say so?
Surely there must be a reason?

Apatheist:
I am not the OP.
I'm asking in my capacity.
Why do you say so?
Surely there must be a reason?

With respect to the OP, semen is need for IVF. IVF necessarily implies the death of one or more embryos. Human life starts at conception. The death of embryos implies the death of humans but in this case it is done deliberately. I have a problem with that.

striktlymi:

With respect to the OP, semen is need for IVF. IVF necessarily implies the death of one or more embryos. Human life starts at conception. The death of embryos implies the death of humans but in this case it is done deliberately. I have a problem with that.

the bolded is great prob because there is no general agreement on when is conception.

however without digressing, I would say that 75% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. So should we all stop fucking?

striktlymi:

With respect to the OP, semen is need for IVF. IVF necessarily implies the death of one or more embryos. Human life starts at conception. The death of embryos implies the death of humans but in this case it is done deliberately. I have a problem with that.

LMFAO.
You're kidding, right?
What about wet dreams?
That's the "death of humans"? Self-service too?

AlfaSeltzer:

the bolded is great prob because there is no general agreement on when is conception.

however without digressing, I would say that 75% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. So should we all stop fucking?

I quite agree that the exact time when conception takes place is very open to speculations and hence the disagreements that may arise but the point (not time) when human life begins really shoudn't be subject to debate because of its clarity.

It is generally accepted that human life and bodily formation begins at the point where the male and female gametes are fused at fertilization (conception), thus necessitating the formation of the zygote. I am not sure if there is any 'medical scientist' who would hold a contrary opinion to this.

Miscarriages unlike abortion are not deliberate, though some miscarriages are a direct result of the carelessness of one or more of the parents. In the event that the parents were carelessness, then manslaughter would be to murder what miscarriage is to abortion.

However, in the case where the parents did everything right and still end up (regrettably) in miscarriage then it will not be their fault just like one who kills in self defence; neither of which is a sin nor a crime.

So just like we can't stop defending ourselves from all aggressors because of the fear of killing someone out of self defence, we can't also stop getting involved in the conjugal act because we are afraid of having a miscarriage.

Apatheist:
LMFAO.
You're kidding, right?
What about wet dreams?
That's the "death of humans"? Self-service too?

What's the correlation between m*sturbation and wet dreams with the deliberate killing of the unborn?

striktlymi:

What's the correlation between m*sturbation and wet dreams with the deliberate killing of the unborn?

You said:

striklymi:
IVF necessarily implies the death of one or more embryos. Human life starts at conception. The death of embryos implies the death of humans but in this case it is done deliberately.

No, IVF does not imply the death of embryo.
Do you know what an embryo is?
Embryo is what you get after successful fertilization. That is, sperm from the man, and ovum from the woman joined together.
IVF is injecting sperm alone into the woman's ovum outside the body.

IVF is not abortion. IVF is fertilization outside the body.
So I do not understand what ivf has to do with death of embryo.

Now to your question: sperm can die during ivf, it also happens during wet dreams.

Apatheist:
You said:
No, IVF does not imply the death of embryo.
Do you know what an embryo is?
Embryo is what you get after successful fertilization. That is, sperm from the man, and ovum from the woman joined together.
IVF is injecting sperm alone into the woman's ovum outside the body.

IVF is not abortion. IVF is fertilization outside the body.
So I do not understand what ivf has to do with death of embryo.

Now to your question: sperm can die during ivf, it also happens during wet dreams.

Sorry brah but I believe you have some research to do. Do that research and correct some of the comments you made up there, then we can have the 'logical' discussion you set out to achieve.

striktlymi:

Sorry brah but I believe you have some research to do. Do that research and correct some of the comments you made up there, then we can have the 'logical' discussion you set out to achieve.

Mention the wrong part(s) of my comment.

Striklymi is just dodging.


As usual, his unintelligent christian views have exposed him as someone who doesnt know what he is talking about.


embryo death

Subscribing to thread...

Apatheist:
Mention the wrong part(s) of my comment.

this:

So I do not understand what ivf has to do with death of embryo.

Now to your question: sperm can die during ivf, it also happens during wet dreams.

Statistically, only 8% of fertilized eggs end up in actual pregnancy. More than 90% are destroyed. This is what bothers striktly.

He never said anything about sperm dying.

TheBigUrban2: Striklymi is just dodging.


As usual, his unintelligent christian views have exposed him as someone who doesnt know what he is talking about.


embryo death

Stop shaming atheists.

Apatheist:
You said:
No, IVF does not imply the death of embryo.
Do you know what an embryo is?
Embryo is what you get after successful fertilization. That is, sperm from the man, and ovum from the woman joined together.
IVF is injecting sperm alone into the woman's ovum outside the body.

IVF is not abortion. IVF is fertilization outside the body.
So I do not understand what ivf has to do with death of embryo.

Now to your question: sperm can die during ivf, it also happens during wet dreams.

Probably you may want to start with the implication of 'embryo selection' in IVF.

AlfaSeltzer:

this:



Statistically, only 8% of fertilized eggs end up in actual pregnancy. More than 90% are destroyed. This is what bothers striktly.

He never said anything about sperm dying.

At least someone knows my issue with IVF.

Would it be ethical "Sacrificing" a few embryos if that will bring joy and smile to the never ending tears and agony of the childless?

The answer to this question appears obvious.

AlfaSeltzer:

this:



Statistically, only 8% of fertilized eggs end up in actual pregnancy. More than 90% are destroyed. This is what bothers striktly.

He never said anything about sperm dying.

My apologies.
It seems I misunderstood.

Also, the success rate is actually 30%, depending on the woman's age.

For women younger than 35, the percentage of live births per cycle is 39.6%.
For women ages 35 to 37, the percentage of live births per cycle is 30.5%.
For women ages 38 to 40, the percentage of live births per cycle is 20.9%.
For women ages 41 to 42, the percentage of live births per cycle is 11.5%.
For women ages 43, the percentage of live births per cycle is 6.2%.
After age 44, little more than 1% of IVF cycles with non-donor eggs lead to live birth.

www.infertility.about.com/od/ivf/f/ivf_success.htm

The percentage of live births per cycle when using donor eggs is 55.1% with fresh embryos.
The percentage of live births per cycle when using donor eggs is 31.9% when using frozen embryos.

Apatheist:
My apologies.
It seems I misunderstood.

Also, the success rate is actually 30%, depending on the woman's age.

www.infertility.about.com/od/ivf/f/ivf_success.htm

You are confusing two separate statistics.

The success rate you quoted is the percentage of women that succeed in getting pregnant through IVF.
My rate was the percentage of embryos in IVF that actually result in pregnancy.

striktlymi:

Probably you may want to start with the implication of 'embryo selection' in IVF.

You can read my reply to Alfa for the success rate.
The rate for miscarriage is almost as high as that of the failure of IVF.
But the success rate of AI is higher. Is this allowed?

AlfaSeltzer:

You are confusing two separate statistics.

The success rate you quoted is the percentage of women that succeed in getting pregnant through IVF.
My rate was the percentage of embryos in IVF that actually result in pregnancy.

Read the link.
The first statistics is for when the woman is not using her own eggs, and it is dependent on her age.
The second is when she's using her own eggs and it is not dependent on age.

Apatheist:
Read the link.
The first statistics is for when the woman is not using her own eggs, and it is dependent on her age.
The second is when she's using her own eggs and it is not dependent on age.

You are still confusing things.

Let me illustrate what we are saying.

If 100 women go for IVF, statistically, 30 of them will end up giving birth. But they must have created 380 embryos. So 350 embryos is destroyed.

You get it now?

AlfaSeltzer:

You are still confusing things.

Let me illustrate what we are saying.

If 100 women go for IVF, statistically, 30 of them will end up giving birth. But they must have created 380 embryos. So 350 embryos is destroyed.

You get it now?

No, it doesn't work like that.

Apatheist:
You can read my reply to Alfa for the success rate.
The rate for miscarriage is almost as high as that of the failure of IVF.
But the success rate of AI is higher. Is this allowed?

I read through your response to Alfa but it still does not address my concerns.

Apatheist:
No, it doesn't work like that.

How does it work?

striktlymi:

I read through your response to Alfa but it still does not address my concerns.

What are your concerns?