26 Member of COREN = 23NSE + 1NATE + 1NISET + 1NAEC

Nigerian Engineers focus was only on CIVIL ENGINEERING contracts and civil engineers form highest percentage of NSE about 70%. Is this the only engineering discipline needed? A lot of energy was spent by NSE/COREN leadership of the past to put the vocational training under the carpet, when the health sectors allowed more council for Pharmacists, Nurses and Laboratory group. Only COREN under the control of NSE was in place with the sole aim of fighting the YABA boys.

I spent all my time trying to be relevant doing NSE graduate exam as with others trying to cross over with PGD. Now that I can call myself a registered engineer my stamp became useless as Agricultural engineer what do I need the stamp for?

For the past 32 years the leadership of NATE was fighting for recognition over the heavy weight of NSE, no time for their national role, NATE took NSE/COREN to court this affected both NSE and NATE along the line they all left the nation building and the white men came back, Today most of NSE members are drafted from NATE aimlessly just to have MNSE in front of their name, thereby swelling the NSE population in Engineering family; 23 FNSE are COREN council members representing the 17,000 NSE Engineers in COREN out of 26 available seat with only one for the 400 registered technologists, one each for Technicians and craft men. What a balance.

We in engineering family should stop deceiving ourselves; we should stop blaming the leadership. We are aware that all Nigerian engineers are fighting for their purses, not the love for the profession. Why do I have to cross over to engineer cadre? As Nigerian firms demand skilled workers.

Nigeria needs skilled manual workers as never before. Some young Nigerians refuse to become bricklayers, mechanic etc, Fiona Ledger a BBC reporter in Lagos saw it all, and he knew that Communications, electricity and power are crying out for upgrading and better maintenance.

But the idea of a vocational education is looked down upon by many young people just because of discriminations against this group of professionals that was dedicated to putting young Nigerians through vocational courses and preparing them for jobs in the office and on the building site. Today Technologists a member of engineering family feel discriminated against, they considered that saying in this group will not be enough if they are to compete effectively in the market place for jobs.

The technological area was known as Middle-level disaster no wonder parent do not want their children in there "Parents will come and tell you they just want their children to be there for one year because they missed university admission for that year and don't want their children sitting around at home." Says a Rector of a Polytechnic. Now we have nobody in the technological field. Can the engineers alone cope as technician, craftsman as well as his role as engineer? No wonder buildings are collapsing. We need to work harder for the government to take us serious; Engineers should be honest with other member of the family. "No gratification in this project" should be followed to letter

WHY NIGERIAN ENGINEERS MUST LEAVE TECHNOLOGISTS ALONE

http://www.ipet.co.za/faq.htm

International Engineering Technologist (IntET) Register

This Register is governed by the Engineering Technologists' Mobility Forum, which consists of the national engineering organisations of Canada, Hong Kong, Ireland, New Zealand, South Africa, and UK.

Entry to the Register, which began operation in late 2007 - the UK section of the Register opened on 1st January 2008 - is open to engineers who:

· have an academic qualification equivalent to an engineering technology degree/diploma/certificate



· have seven years post-graduation experience



· have two years in responsible charge of engineering work



be maintaining continuing professional development

PROFESSIONAL TECHNOLOGISTS (ENGINEERING)

What are they in South Africa?

They are first and foremost persons who are registered with the Engineering Council of South Africa (ECSA), as Professional Technologists (Engineering).

In order to register, the applicant must provide proof of having obtained a qualification at a Technikon (POLYTECHNIC) in South Africa and a period of practical experience in industry, acceptable to ECSA. Qualifications obtained elsewhere will also be considered. Acceptance for registration is at the discretion of ECSA.

Professional Technologists (Engineering) are required to exercise mature judgments in the workplace and expected to have the ability to conceive, identify and optimize solutions to complex engineering problems. Above all, they are prepared to accept full professional responsibility for their engineering decisions.

In its Constitution and Bylaws, the South African Association of Consulting Engineers (SAACE) fully recognizes the status of the Professional Technologist and no distinction is made between PrEng and PrTech(Eng). The SAACE's primary requirement for a firm to become and remain a member is that at least 50% of its principals shall be consulting engineers. The definition of a consulting engineer being a professional engineer or a professional technologist who is registered in terms of the Act, is practicing and, as his / her principal occupation, is rendering a professional engineering service to others.

What work do they do?

Engineering technologists apply their expertise in any combination of the engineering functions in all branches of engineering. These functions include conceptualizing, design, project or construction management, commissioning, measurement and testing, quality assurance, costing and estimating, production, the collection and analysis of data, maintenance, teaching, research and the modification and development of technologies for the solution of complex engineering problems. They may work on their own or can be part of a team.

What positions do they occupy?

They may be:

· Consultants in their own right or members of firms of engineering consultants,



· A senior manager in central, provincial or local government, or in private practice,



· A contractor,



· An advisor in a company, practicing a high level of technical expertise.



Official International Engineering Glossary

http://www.engology.com/enggglossary.htm

Engology * means: International Professional ' Engineering Science/Technology '.

* Engineer * means: An Approved International ' Graduate/Professional Engineer ' - (Er).

* Engologist * means: An Approved International ' Engineering Technologist ' - (Egt).

* ETechnician * means: An Approved International ' Engineering Technician ' - (ETn).

HND IS OUT DATED

NATE as the only HND holders association is happy that government is borrow a leaf from a country like Japan whose philosophy and objective of education is, 'aggressive survival technology and effective use of adapted technology', that is useful to humanity.

Developed countries of the world do not believe in this old style of middle level slaves. Applied courses in Canada and USA are never called middle level. The practice whereby the polytechnics award HND is outdated in Africa; South Africa change from HND to B.Tech in 1996 and Ghana in 2005, and no British colonized African countries offer HND again.

Some Nigerian ministers and professors obtained their degrees from British polytechnic. Tertiary institutions abroad afford HND holders from this country admission for post-graduate studies without any discrimination. The middle level disaster was inherited from the British which computer world has eliminated.

The British government scrapped HND education years back, because the purpose was defeated and replaced with degrees, old ideas of master and slave drags British back ward, USA today is helping them to put the British ideas on wheel.

Nigeria cannot afford to remain the only country in Africa with HND and still looking for paid employment that requires middle level celebration of passing papers around the offices.

Nigeria wants to produce those that can use their hands. And be able to work in another country, Nigeria need to grow technologically and be able to work elsewhere with globally acceptable certificate, HND is never known in USA Or Canada.

Right now some Federal Ministries and Parastatals are gathering data for the next promotion exercise but the HND holders on SGL 14 are completely excluded. We do not know why Middle level slaves are still wanted when those in the streets with HND are not getting jobs.

It has been a long drawn battle from NATE because of the manner of job placement, promotion prospects and the practice of placing university degree graduates over and above HND holders from university or polytechnic even with additional qualification. This new life for HND holders, took many unawares.

We really support the effort of the government for phasing out the HND from our education.

Over the years, there has been a lot of segregation in the labour market between polytechnic HND and university graduates. (Note that the polytechnic middle level manpower stops at ND, and Universities too had some HND courses apart from Bsc, Msc and PhD) why should the polytechnic HND graduates play second fiddle to the university degree graduates? The HND has always been here with us, what has been the contribution of those falling in love with it now, to reduce the stress of HND holders? Although the change has not gone down well to some as they still argued that the colleges were established to provide mid-level manpower for the country.

Now that government has given approval for polytechnics and colleges of technology to award degrees they should support the move.

Yakubu(NBTE boss) had urged all the heads of polytechnics and colleges of technology to prepare ground and brace up to the challenges of awarding Bachelor of Technology (B. Tech) in their institutions as approved by the government. Inside the same government instrument that approved the award of degrees by the polytechnics, made HND to be equal to a degree, removing the ceiling on the salary grade level and rank that holders of HND could attain in the public service, and made the Ordinary National Diploma (OND) the new minimum entry point into the service.

Nevertheless, many polytechnics and colleges of technology have initiated a flurry of activities to accommodate the directive from the Executive Secretary of the National Board for Technical Education (NBTE) Dr. Nuru Yakubu.

NATE has advocated for the parity of the degree certificate and the Higher National Diploma, and also for the approval to award degrees. We in NATE are so grateful to the government that the struggle for award of degrees by the polytechnics has finally been granted; we are in hurry to see the implementation of the federal government's good gesture towards the polytechnics.

thnks hndholder, i am sure most of the nairalanders have been enlightened as regards this very topical issue, i know i have. pleas give in your view , theres another aspect not being concidered, the issue of technology streamlining, i.e simply put 'tech for the masses',

Science, Engineering and Technology


Nigerian government need to address this issue now, as it is becoming a thing of concern. Engineers newly registered may be lucky if treated well thank to our senior colleagues in service but Registered Technologist means nothing to the government.
The council of the establishments last month made the (HND/Bsc) ANAN members a king to behold in civil service while asking the stakeholders to look at the rest of other profession. Engineering personnel are the poorest paid in the country so they must inflate contracts or combine with others to cheat the Government.

COREN felt not concerned with the decision of the federal government to allow polytechnics to award Bachelor of Technology Degree, which is being received with skepticism by some Engineers.
Many engineers are not impressed with the directive; despite the facts that NATE and the Academic Staff Union of Polytechnics, (ASUP) and the Senior Staff Association of Polytechnics (SSANIP) have been calling on the federal government to allow polytechnics to award degree. Engineer Femi Omokungbe, (Chairman ASUPYaba College of Technology) in his on case would like to see the policy document to back it up. Yaba College of Technology and Kaduna Polytechnic was converted to universities of technology on paper but died silently now to be mere degree awarding institutions. Another Engineer Omokungbe wondered what would happen to those who are already on the Higher National Diploma (HND) programme. It will be recalled that Engineers in the house of representative were happy to kill the bill on HND/Bsc, The ANAN are happy now while the technologist who are member of the same family are not cared for.

The issue of Engineering and Technology
There is no law yet to back up this new policy. The polytechnic graduates are not happy. So migration to Engineers cadre is still on and the nation is loosing. Of what value is a degree holder without a job?

Let COREN speak now as no time was set for the commencement of the policy. NATE wants a specific policy backed by appropriate legislation. There may be more discrimination against the Bachelor of Technology degree awarded by polytechnics. What happen to those B.Tech run by some Nigerian universities?

The polytechnics are ready and fully prepared for the degree awarding status with adequate facilities and manpower. They are only waiting for government to back the decision with appropriate legislation, and the Government will not just embark on a course of action unless it is convinced that the people will benefit.

What are the differences
B.Tech,
Bachelor of Technology
Bsc,
Bachelor of Science
B.Eng
Bachelor of Engineering?

Nigeria is a country with laws but without order, it is a country with COREN decree, yet cannot practice engineering the subject of the profession because of the lack of its enforcement. Unless, there is law and order, respect for humanity and accountability, the nation cannot save itself from its current calamitous technological decline.

“TECHNOLOGY FOR ACTUALISATION OF VISION 2020”
The Nigerian Association of Technologists in Engineering (NATE) held its 25th Technologists Talk and Annual General Meeting (TTAGM) at the Women Development Centre, Central Business District, Abuja on Thursday, 28th and Friday, 29th August 2008. The theme of the Technologists Talk was “TECHNOLOGY FOR ACTUALISATION OF VISION 2020”. Resource persons and participants discussed issues affecting the country and the engineering profession in the effort at “Actualisation of Nigeria’s Vision 2020” and resolved as follows:
1. THE VISION 2020 STATEMENT: “By 2020 Nigeria will be one of the 20 largest economies in the world able to consolidate its leadership role in Africa and establish itself as a significant player in the global economic and political arena”. NATE commends the Federal Government for the VISION 20/2020 and strongly pledges to join hands in its actualisation. NATE observes that this is not the first time that a target date is set for the industrial and economic development of this country. Technology being the bedrock of engine of growth of any nation, NATE considered the non-inclusion of its representative in the National Steering Committee as an oversight and calls on the Federal Government to request the Association to appoint a nominee for inclusion in the National Steering Committee, as our presence and input will constitute a big boost to the realization of Vision 2020.
2. REMOVAL OF CAREER CEILING ON HND HOLDERS: The Nigerian Association of Technologists in Engineering being the professional body comprised mainly of HND (Engineering) holders commends the Federal Government for accepting the recommendations in Section 6. 2 of the recently published White Paper on the Report of the Presidential Committee on the Consolidation of Emoluments in the Public Sector. The removal of “the undue dichotomy and ceiling on the Salary Grade Level/Rank attainable by Higher National Diploma holders” in the civil service has been the thrust of NATE’s struggle since 1976 and finally gives due recognition to the Higher National Diploma as a professional qualification. The Association appeals to the Federal, State and Local Governments to commence the implementation of this policy without delay so that it is achieved on schedule in the medium term.
3. THE TERTIARY INSTITUTIONS: The conference noted that the number of graduates produced by the technological institutions is a far cry from that required for our technological growth. To produce the right calibre of professionals for the actualisation of the VISION 20/2020 of the Federal Government, the conference recommends that HND holders should be engaged and designated as lecturers in the polytechnic system. Conference further recommended that polytechnics and Universities of Technology should be better funded and equipped. Participants also opined that polytechnics should focus on their areas of strength and observed that with the new policy to replace the HND with BTech. Our Polytechnics and Universities of Technology should revise their curricula and make them more relevant.
4. TECHNICAL & VOCATIONAL EDUCATION: This sector is not receiving the level of encouragement required for it to play its role as the feeder to the Technological Educational sector and the producer of the technical and artisan manpower for the actualisation of Vision 20/2020. Conference therefore recommends that the various levels of government should encourage this sector by investing heavily in its development.
5. MANPOWER UTILISATION: Participants called on the Federal Government to fully utilize indigenous engineering manpower in the design and execution of engineering contracts as no nation can attain technological self dependence with the use of expatriate manpower. The common practice of awarding engineering contracts to non-engineering professionals is a major cause of the collapse of our infrastructures – industries, buildings, roads, etc.
Professionally registered HND holders should be certified as consultants. The conference called on the Federal Government to sponsor a well-researched bill for the amendment of COREN Decree to grant full professional status to HND holders. NATE will forward its proposals in this regard to the Federal Government.
6. POWER & ENERGY: The conference identified the pivotal role of power and energy in the actualisation of Vision 20/2020 and decried the currently deplorable level of electricity power supply in the country in spite of being so richly endowed with the resources required for its generation. After an extensive survey of technological and environmental factors, conference recommends that, in the long term, Nigeria seriously embarks on the development of renewable energy resources, especially nuclear energy, as a means of power generation. As a short term measure, the Federal Government should encourage the state governments and FCTA to each construct power stations capable of generating 1,500Megawatts of electricity. This will deliver a total of 55,500 MW into the national grid.
7. SAFETY & ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION: As a national professional association, NATE is concerned with the need to preserve our environment for sustainable economic growth. In this regard, it supports government’s directive to key players in the petroleum industry to stop gas flaring soon. It also calls for more proactive stance on oil spillage in the Niger Delta and desert encroachment in the savannah. Government is implored to beef up measures for protecting lives and properties of Nigerians and expatriates to ensure peace and prosperity, the offshoots of VISION 2020.

@HND-holder

Have Government implemented any of those things above??

For where

The problem of cheap decimator attitudes of those saddled with the responsibilities of our education in the past must stop; this could bring the negative thinking of technical education to an end.

it's really an amusing issue. what you don't know is that some universities don't give HND holders the chance of getting Msc. what do you you think would happen to HND holders in the academic sector who are lecturers with only HND or highest PGD?? Will they still be relevant??

HND holders should agree with GOD re write their papers

Hnd-holder:

HND holders should agree with GOD re write their papers

How?? go back and do Bsc in the university? may be dat will help.

Everything as GOD want it.

@HND-holder

Have you come across this post? it's very important that you read it, cos it makes sense.

sendtodeji

Re: B. Sc. vs HND: An Unsettled Case?
« #214 on: Yesterday at 06:37:05 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's being a very long discussion. I just stumbled on it today (November 26th, 2008) and I was able to follow the discussion from when it started. As you might have guessed, I am also a product of the Polytechnic institution. I graduated in 2003 and completed my mandatory NYSC in 2004 before moving to the US in the same year. When I completed my ND, I had attempted to go to OAU to obtain a BSc. However, the prevalent admission politics stopped me from achieving that. I went back to the Polytechnic to complete my HND. Today, I am glad that I did. Some of my colleagues who had the patience and wherewithal to deal with the admission process got admitted a year after. Unfortunately, majority of them didn't graduate until 2007, 4 years after I completed my HND! Who has that time to waste?

I am currently pursuing a Masters in Information Technology with concentration in Telecommunications Management at a University in the US. One of the entry requirements for getting an admission for graduate studies is to first have your credentials evaluated by a Credential Evaluation agency like www.wes.com To my surprise, my HND evaluation came back as "Equivalent to a US 4 year BS degree". Now, someone else who comes from Nigeria to pursue a Masters degree over here who has a BSc from Nigeria will also get the same I evaluation that I got. The point is, the discrimination we are experiencing is an evil offspring of bad government educational policy. By the way, is the university becoming a cult system? How else can we explain the term "convocate"? I will prefer to define it as a University cult system for students who passed through a university educational system in Nigeria. If our dear friend HND-Holder was able to distinguish himself with Ph.D in Engineering, while should someone with inferiority complex and low self-esteem criticize him for passing through a Polytechnic? It's utter nonsense which I think should stop. I'm confident that it will eventually stop as we continue to have more and more Ph.Ds like HND-holder who are willing to stand up for the cause.

In the US, they also have a system of Colleges, Polytechnics and Universities. Some colleges award degrees up to BS. You achieve an Associate degree when you complete a 2 year course in a college, which is equivalent to our ND. Then you can proceed to the University to complete an additional 2 years to obtain a BS. You can enter directly to the university from year one to end but it's more expensive that way. That's why most people opt to college first and then transfer to a university to finish up. Putting that in perspective, I am for the idea of preserving the Polytechnic system for awarding ND as "mid-level manpower" producing institution. HND should be scraped and replaced with BS or cease to exist.

We are all a victim of a faulty system where some people just want to feel superior at someone else's expense even though everything about them says otherwise. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this crime. Yes, it's a crime. The system is so worse now that you can only gain admission to most universities only if you are willing to "buy" it. Some people will demand up to NGN 80,000 to offer you admission. What for? That's the reason why our university system keeps churning out mediocres. A director at a major oil company recently made a remark about the university system producing first-class graduates who don't even understand basic concepts of Geology. I was expecting the University community to put up a logical defense. The few responses I read in the Newspapers then was further disappointing. A lecturer from LASU wrote that there are not enough fund to carry out research. I think you can only get funds when an entity realizes the potentials of your research. The reality of the matter is, majority of our academicians are not keeping up with recent developments in their fields. They are relying on archaic knowledge and principles, further passing that on to their students. By the time the students graduate and get into the field, they soon discover that things are different from what they are thought.

I also have a thing against going from classroom to classroom to become a lecturer/professor. The crucial industrial experience element is missing! How can you teach a concept that you do not have a hands-on experience with like it should be thought? It's not possible! Let our professors go and compare their credentials with that of their foreign counterparts, they will realize that their foreign counterparts have industrial experience first before opting for the academics. That's the route that the Polytechnic system follows. Make no mistakes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Polytechnic system. The problem is the system in which it is being run. The Polytechnic system, if given its due recognition, is the system that will take us to the technological level that we put us at par with developed nations like the US and UK. What is killing us in Nigeria is the denial of our own ability. If we embrace home-grown technology and encourage people to be creative like it's done in countries like India, China and Japan, we would realize that we can compete favorably at all levels with those countries technology-wise. The lecturer at LASU claiming that they don't have funds and equipments to work with in order to perform meaningful research is very wrong in his argument. We want government to provide everything. An academic community should be able to improvise. What happened to reverse-engineering? If government is able to buy one of an equipment, I think the best thing should be for them to disassemble it and come up with a means of producing a similar technology and even refine it to make it better. This is what we can do with even the little resources that we have in that country. If a computer science professor is doing a research in clustered or grid computing and he is complaining about not having enough resources to perform a research, how about him putting up a Beowulf cluster with scraps from computer village and good old Linux OS?

I must confess to the person reading this that the knowledge and experience that I am using at work right now is a knowledge that I acquired while I was a student. It is easy for me to transfer that knowledge to any area of IT. I was trained on DOS, now I work on Linux and Unix. The transition was seamless and have even come to enjoy it more than Windows! One thing that I also have to say is that what you become after school is not a function of who taught you at school. It's not a function of being taught by a professor or a "Mister" (I wonder what that means). It's a function of who you are. Those people are not meant to be "all-knowing". There role is to guide your learning and answer your questions. That's another problem that we have in the Nigerian educational system. Our professors and "Misters" think their role is to exact their academic prowess by failing students. Well, I don't think that's what they should be doing. The government should institute a policy that will enable students too to evaluate their teachers. I can tell you that not all the "misters" that taught me knew so much about what they were teaching. In fact, most times, I get more confused after a lecture. Which is why at times, I prefer to skip some classes (little confession) because I am way ahead what the "mister" was going to teach. The "mister" is relying on solution from a lecture not to grade my work whereas I am giving him a practical approach which could be different from the book or lecture note solution. I can't tell you how many times I was bitten before I realize the truth. What's the point, what you become after school is not and will never be a function of what you were taught in school. It's more a function of who you are and what you can do with what you learnt in school.

I hope to some day retire from the industry to the classroom to teach after obtaining my Ph.D like HND-holder. The one and only place I would like that to happen is in Nigeria. I hope I will not be discriminated against by my academic colleagues too. If that happens, I will start a technology institute that will bring "real" people together to produce solutions that will affect our system. At this age in Nigeria, we should have our own home-made car. Someone attempted that recently but he was also sabotaged. We should have our own home made electronics. A lot of Nigerians are involved in the design and development of such things outside the country. I wonder why they can't do that within? Sabotage! As any one read the story of Jelani Aliyu, the guy that designed the GM next generation electric car? Has anyone heard about Emeagwali? Google this names and see what they are doing in diaspora. They are like you and I. Jelani Aliyu is also a Polytechnic product. He had the opportunity to go to a University both chose a Polytechnic instead. He wanted practical experience and the Polytechnic system suits his purpose and vision. Look what he's doing today.

I rest my case for today.

Another testimony of real people.

May God help us o. Pls HND holder wats ur e-mail address? i need to send a mail to u.

nate88et76@yahoo.com

thanks all, for your most appreciatied contributions, but currently a new aspect has been introduced to the subject , the current global economic crisis. in view of this 'abnormal situation' the enterpreneur is the master. in this light , wouldnt we say the Hnd has an advantage (solely the concidering technology sector)?

HND is not good

I don't know where you guys say you went to school.
In Nigeria of today, technical education is nonexistent. Bsc is poor, and HND is total crap.
The way forward for Nigeria's technology sector lies in the government reviving the manufacturing sector through fixing the power problem. HND or Bsc has nothing to do with it.

i will explain as it applies to engineering which i know very well and conversant with their syllbus\course outline,
a graduate of university in the engineering field has underdone a different curriculum trainning from that which comes out from the polytechnic. according to the NSE and COREN, these are the classifications/ qualifications
1, engineer, bsc and above
2, technologist, hnd
3, technician, ond
4, craftmen, nabtech, waec tech and other techical cert.
5, artician, practitionls who have learnt the trade with many years of experience
everybody has its own job to do in the field of engineering.
in western world, this disparity does not exist because the need of everybodies job is specified.
an engineer designs, and most cases supervies a project. they also uses time study and work study to increase production, reduces cost and thus are more of management in the eng field. they also discover new methods of achieving the same goal or attaining a better goal. a technologist is somebody that understand the current methodlogy. he works based on the engineers specification and supervises the craftmen and technicians. this is the reason why he must have years of experience which is the reason you must do your IT before doing your hnd. a tecnician and craftmen are practical people. they are the people you see on the field of engineering carring out one task or the other.

We’re removing disparity between HND, varsity degree’
By Oluwole Josiah, Abuja
Published: Wednesday, 13 May 2009

http://www.punchontheweb.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200905134362621
The Minister of Education, Dr. Sam Egwu, has said that the Federal Government has begun the process of eliminating the discrimination against polytechnic graduates in the public service.


He stated this during an interactive session between the ministry officials and the Senate Committee on Education on Tuesday.

According to him, the disparity was affecting staff moral and productivity within the service, noting that the government is concerned about it.

He said, “We are addressing the problem, because when a staff with HND does not earn the same recognition that his counterpart from the university earns, it creates problems.

“Right now, we have removed the barriers. By the time we present our overall blue print you will see how far we have gone.”

Chairman of the committee, Senator Joy Emordi, expressed satisfaction over the development, saying that her office had been inundated with petitions from Nigerians complaining about the adverse effects of the disparity.

But Senator Iyabo Obasanjo-Bello, a member of the committee, noted that polytechnics had created more problems by admitting too many students in the business courses while only a few were admitted into engineering.

According to her, the polytechnics have deviated from their initial mandate of focusing on technical courses.

Senator Omar Hambagdar, a former university lecturer, however, disagreed with Obasanjo-Bello, arguing that the initial design of the polytechnic system included both technical and business courses.

He said only polytechnics initially offered business courses and that it was only recently that universities in Nigeria started offering business courses.

The truth is that both HND and Bsc Technology/Engineering holders in nigeria have failed the nation. The so-called Engineers should come out with designs for the so-called Technologists to implement rather than fighting and querelling over who is superior and who is not important. At the moment we need both the engineers and technologists to make things work. Even Technicians and craftsmen are important too; try carrying out any engineering project without them and see if it will work out well.

thanx for your contribution zebra, the point uve raised is tru, but i wud like to come in here and say, we r not arguing about the superioirity of one over the other but the possibility of scholars of one side providing basic simple technology solutions for the country. we r not asking for rocket scientist, but take for instance the idea of the e-taxi, see how it harmonises the gsm with automobiles, u see, its not about hyped-technology,but technology tailored to solve basic problems, thnx anyway

HND=B.Tech now. Circular on parity expected from head of service at 34th NCE meeting Uyo before Decenber 2009.
We are grateful to Naira land

We’re removing disparity between HND, varsity degree’
By Oluwole Josiah, Abuja

Published: Wednesday, 13 May 2009

The Minister of Education, Dr. Sam Egwu, has said that the Federal Government has begun the process of eliminating the discrimination against polytechnic graduates in the public service.

He stated this during an interactive session between the ministry officials and the Senate Committee on Education on Tuesday.

According to him, the disparity was affecting staff moral and productivity within the service, noting that the government is concerned about it.

He said, “We are addressing the problem, because when a staff with HND does not earn the same recognition that his counterpart from the university earns, it creates problems.

“Right now, we have removed the barriers. By the time we present our overall blue print you will see how far we have gone.”

Chairman of the committee, Senator Joy Emordi, expressed satisfaction over the development, saying that her office had been inundated with petitions from Nigerians complaining about the adverse effects of the disparity. But Senator Iyabo Obasanjo-Bello, a member of the committee, noted that polytechnics had created more problems by admitting too many students in the business courses while only a few were admitted into engineering. According to her, the polytechnics have deviated from their initial mandate of focusing on technical courses.

Senator Omar Hambagdar, a former university lecturer, however, disagreed with Obasanjo-Bello, arguing that the initial design of the polytechnic system included both technical and business courses.

He said only polytechnics initially offered business courses and that it was only recently that universities in Nigeria started offering business courses.

applause for all floor members!!
whosoever dares to argue the fact that 'little drops of water, make a mighty ocean'
As we go further we see that the disparity btw hnd and the bsc only exist in the realm of the 'prejudiced-mind'
i even recall a floor member saying even 'technitians' are of use, when we come to the matter of 'nation biulding'
renown economists have proven that the energies that drive the asian economies are derived from SME's and rarely
white collar 'bank jobs'
well, this is another perspective to view from,

God bless you my brother

Ref:NATE/AGM/09.02 29TH August, 2009


To
………………………………………………………,


INVITATION TO ATTEND
26TH TECHNOLOGICAL ENGINEERING CONFERENCE, AND ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING (TECAGM 2009)

This is to Invite you to attend the TECAGM 2009 scheduled to hold on the 15th and 16th of October 2009 at the Women Development Center, opposite Central Bank Hqts, Central Business District, Abuja; Time 8.00am prompt daily. TECAGM 2009 provides a forum for professional interaction necessary for members and others in Engineering family to keep abreast of the current trends in their chosen carrier. Please be informed of the following:

THE ASSOCIATION.
The Nigerian Association of Technologist in Engineering is a professional body of practical Engineers established in 1976 and incorporated in 1988 with the aim of fostering self-reliant Technological development in Nigeria.

THEME FOR TECAGM 2009
The theme for this year’s conference is:
TECHNOLOGY –ROADMAP TO ACTUALIZATION OF 7 POINT AGENDA.

MEMBERSHIP OBLIGATION
As a registered and intending Member you are obliged to attend. Attendance, Presentation of Technical papers and/or Participation in the discussions attract appropriate scores for admission and for your membership continuity and progression.

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