The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. - Car Talk - Nairaland
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| The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 10:25pm On Jul 31, 2014 |
I started a Toyota Hybrid thread recently, recent enough to have fallen foul of Nairaland's data loss and attack. So it disappeared. Hence The need to start a new thread! As some may know, I have gotten involved with Toyota, being contracted to Toyota UK. I have come to understand a bit more about these underrated cars. While Audi is my firm favourite, there's no denying Toyota are pretty innovative. Hybrid technology from Toyota / Lexus is second to none. Audi, Honda, Peugeot and a host of others have dabbled in Hybrid Technology. But one thing's for certain - Toyota are light years ahead. No other manufacturer has come close in terms of Hybrid Tech, Toyota / Lexus are the ONLY manufacturer that have made it work. Full Hybrid, not parallel or series. Toyota is the BOSS. I'm still not a fan of Toyota regular family sedans, I find them lacking soul. But their RWD Sport Coupes, light pick-up trucks, and their Hybrid models are interesting. I am also a qualified Toyota Diagnostic Technician, with Hybrids a speciality. I am an approved THS (Toyota Hybrid System) tech. I will be documenting Hybrid issues here, starting with the replacement of a Hybrid inverter in a 2012 Toyota Prius, with pictures. And the precautions that MUST be taken. We're talking HV (High Voltage) here. And mistakes can be costly. And fatal, or at least close to it. I will post details, in text and pictures over the weekend. In the meantime, please feel free to share your Hybrid experiences, and trials, if any. 6 Likes |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by GAZZUZZ(m): 3:31am On Aug 01, 2014 |
Following............. |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 3:36am On Aug 01, 2014 |
Me too  |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by micklplus(m): 8:03am On Aug 01, 2014 |
following bumper to fender. |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by kablooee: 8:41am On Aug 01, 2014 |
Staying tuned! I'll eat, sleep and party on this thread. |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by lonelydora: 11:58am On Aug 01, 2014 |
*Spreads mat waiting for Siena to hype Toyota* No offence intended. |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by yungboss(m): 9:44pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
Much respect for Toyota for what they are, and its achievement. 1 Like |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 10:43pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
My dealership maintains, and carries out warranty work on the Toyota Prius. Both privately and company owned. One of our biggest Prius clients are Green Tomato. This is a private Taxi firm, running the 2009 - 2014 Toyota Prius. There was recently a recall on the Prius. Not as in the cars are dangerous, more of a software update on the Hybrid Control. This update is known internally by the code AGG09. Most Prius from 2009 - 2013 are now up to date with mostly the later cars still pending. As many are aware, the Hybrid cars run a CVT transmission. Though not the convention CVT as we know it. It is unique to Hybrid cars, and though Hybrid cars can reverse like any other car, there is no reverse gear. Reverse is ALWAYS carried out by one of the electric motors mounted in the transmission. And another misconception - the Toyota / Lexus are FULL Hybrid, so ALWAYS in electric mode. The gasoline engine cuts in to boost output when required. So when you hear what seems like the gasoline engine running at low road speeds, it's NOT driving the car. It is simply being turned by the electric motor. The gasoline engine is not a conventional motor, a conventional gasser is an Otto-Cycle engine. The engine used in Toyota / Lexus is unique. It is an Atkinson-Cycle engine. In simple terms, it has an offset crank, meaning the intake. Laces are not fully closed on the power stroke. This allows for an engine that is extremely efficient, creating very little vacuum, so less internal friction (which a Hybrid doesn't need). The downside is an engine which produces very low torque for a given capacity, and has less engine braking than an Otto cycle gasoline engine. The Atkinson engine can NOT be replaced with a conventional Otto motor, and vice versa. Unlike the rest of the Toyota / Lexus Hybrid models, the Prius was designed from the onset as a Hybrid. The low-drag bodyshell, the shape and chassis were were not designed to be beautiful to behold. It was designed to cut through the wind with the least resistance. It was designed to be fuel-efficient. 1 Like |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 11:03pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
The Prius design is complex, though once you understand how it all works, pretty simple. It has a 12V battery, a 200V HV (high voltage) battery, a DC to AC inverter, and regenerative brakes. The AC voltage is around 630 volts. The aircon compressor is fed AC voltage, though it has a built in converter, bringing it back to DC voltage. There are precautions that need to be taken with a Hybrid. If having a jump start, the other vehicle must NOT have the engine running. It must NOT be towed. The motor in the transaxle will generate an AC voltage, with the driven wheels turning. The aircon must NOT have regular PAG oil injected. The compressor is AC, PAG oil is conductive. And the controls will become live with PAG oil in the system. Hybrids require a special oil mixed with the refrigerant. Zero rated electrical gloves MUST be worn when working on the HV system, and the service plug on the HV battery MUST be removed, and 10 minutes MUST elapse, before work commences. This allows the inverter capacitors to discharge. 1 Like |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 11:21pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
Last week, a 2011 Toyota Prius was recovered in on a flat bed truck. It was dead. Dash showed "Check Hybrid System". I pulled codes from Hybrid Control, using Techstream, which is Toyota's diagnostic tool. The dreaded code - POA94 came up. This is a pretty generic code "DC-DC Converter Performance". Generic enough to prompt me to carry out further tests, using prompts from TechDoc. All tests were conclusive, and pointed to a dead inverter. As this car had a 5-year warranty, the owner could heave a sigh of relief. Toyota UK would be picking up the tab. We were given the go ahead to replace the inverter. And I had the privilege of being the Tech to carry out this task. This was to be my first inverter replacement. 1 Like |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 11:34pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
First, zero-rated gloves MUST be worn.  ... The 12V battery is disconnected:  ...Then the gloves are donned, and the HV batter Service Plug is removed:     |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 12:06am On Aug 02, 2014 |
10 minutes at the very minimum MUST be allowed to elapse, before any work on the HV system can commence. Even after 10 minutes, the inverter MUST be checked for residual voltage, with a digital multimeter. The front panel trim is removed:  ...The inverter front retaining bracket bolts are removed:  ...The inverter LV / HV access panel is removed. This is secured with nine 10mm bolts:  The access panel is removed. Despite 20 minutes having elapsed since the HV battery service plug was removed, I prefer to err on the side of caution, and assume there is still residual voltage. So I don the gloves, and check the terminals with a multimeter. Looking from left to right, there are 3 sets of terminals to check - 200V DC terminals, this is from the HV battery. Then middle and right, 630V AC terminals.    |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 12:30am On Aug 02, 2014 |
Air box removed for easy access to inverter left hand side coolant hose. First, engine cover removed, to gain access to the top 10mm bolt:  ...Air filter removed:  ...Air cleaner upper 10mm bolt:  ...Air cleaner lower 10mm bolts x2:  |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by kablooee: 7:54am On Aug 02, 2014 |
Thumbs up man, so much inspiration, I've worked on a couple of highlanders 06-08 here in Nigeria too, changed HV battery, inverters and the hybrid ecu as d case may be. Learning more from here. Tnx Siena. Please continue |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by skyfall: 9:21pm On Aug 03, 2014 |
Thank you for this educative thread. |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by kablooee: 1:12pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
Siena what happened to this thread? |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 1:26pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
Inverter coolant pipes are removed:   |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 1:42pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
The HV power-down process has long been completed, no residual voltage is present. This is very important. 630 volts AC can kill. Those with heart problems, using pace makers etc are particularly vulnerable. 200V DC from HV battery removed, as well as 630V AC from the inverter. They are then placed out of the way. They are secured by M8 bolts, accessible via the inverter access panel:  12V feed from fuse box disconnected:  |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 1:53pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
The inverter is secured to the car by 4 M8 bolts 2 either side, 1 at the rear, and the 4th at the front of the car, on the bracket, as previously shown. Once all these are removed, and all connections are free of the inverter, the whole assembly is lifted out. Leaving a space like this one:   |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 2:03pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
The replacement inverter:   Old versus new inverter:  |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 2:13pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
Fitting is a reversal of the removal process. Once fitted, the inverter coolant must be refilled with fresh coolant, and the system bled using Toyota Techstream. All codes must be cleared too, and in the case of this car, it had the AGG09 recall outstanding. This is the Hybrid Control ECU flash. On any car with the DTC P0A94, the inverter assembly MUST be replaced, even if the car still drives. The ECU for Hybrid Control will NOT accept a flash update otherwise. |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 2:20pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
The car modelled here in this write-up was a 2011 a Toyota Prius.   |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 2:35pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
On a typical day at work, there are never less than 4 Toyota Prius on site, or in the workshop. Proof that Hybrid Technology is gaining popularity, and is one of Toyota's best selling models in Europe.      1 Like |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by sultaan(m): 6:15pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
If its one of the the best in Europe it is also the same in US , at a time there was a 4 month delivery wait time. Sales have slowed down a little because the new compacts are getting mileage close to hybrids like the Mazda2, Cruze eco, Corolla etc. The Volt is not selling as much because of price, Prius V is cheaper, even Nissan now has a cheaper Leaf that is very popular. When they can sell the hybrid for $2k-$3k lower than current price it will bring more on the road the main problem is getting parts and services after warranty . Can the engine bay be safely washed with all these electronics? |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 7:01pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
I understand, Sultaan. The Nissan Leaf is not a common sight on British roads. From what I gather, the fact it's purely electric, rather than a Hybrid is hampering sales. The range is limited, though improved on later models. Hybrids are popular, not just due to great gas mileage, but running costs. Owners or drivers of Toyota Prius are exempt from paying London's daily Congestion Charge (Central London). This is usually £11 per day. If your work takes you into Central London on a daily basis, or you operate a fleet of taxis, then this is a massive saving. The Toyota Prius costs around £24,000 new. But buyers receive a Government Grant of £5,000 towards the purchase cost, making the purchase cost £19,000. Then there's the issue of the annual Road Tax / Excise Duty. Owners of Toyota Prius still have to obtain Road Tax, but it's free. That saves around £230 per year. Add all this to the other savings, we're talking a heap of dough. The Other Toyota Hybrid models sold in the UK are: Auris Hybrid 1.8 VVT-I. Yaris Hybrid 1.5 VVT-I. Other models may follow, right now, the Yaris Hybrid is the latest Toyota model sold here to gain Hybrid Technology. |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 7:04pm On Aug 10, 2014 |
With regards to washing the engines in Hybrid models, we do carry out Service Washes, with the owners sometimes requesting we steam clean the engine bay too. So far, there have been no issues. The connectors in Hybrid models are as Military spec, with particular attention being paid to the HV circuits. Extremely waterproof. |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by AEOBabel: 9:26am On Oct 23, 2014 |
Hello All, Please i am about paying for a Used Toyota camry hybrid 2007 model. The reviews i'm getting (although published years ago), is indicating this is going to be an unpalatable experience. Please who has used this vehicle and should a young chap gets this as his first car? maintenance being taken into consideration.
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| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 11:39am On Oct 23, 2014 |
AEOBabel: If you reside in Nigeria, please DON'T go near a hybrid. 1 Like |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by chukel(m): 3:28pm On Oct 23, 2014 |
AEOBabel:that looks like a park in cotonou. Meaning dat spider hybrid is Nigerian bound. Guy, no try am. If u read sienna's procedure, ask yourself where such can be done in Nigeria. My neighbor's hybrid Honda has been parked for 8 months. I believe all the mechanics in my town kn the Honda cos all have been brought to make the car start. All to no avail. I laugh when he keeps bringing mechanics to work on it. From battery to plug to fuel pump to ecu to coil to airflow meter sensor... name it. I guess that's not the type of life u want. Hear word. |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Carshopper(m): 9:14am On Oct 26, 2014 |
lomomike: Please y do u say this? |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Nobody: 9:34am On Oct 26, 2014 |
Carshopper:Why do you ask, do you sell any hybrid (I know you import from cotonu), or you wish to use a hybrid? |
| Re: The Toyota / Lexus Hybrid Thread. by Carshopper(m): 11:14am On Oct 26, 2014 |
lomomike: I don't import from cotonou  .... have 2 hybrid vehicle ( highlander and rx400h)... jus want to know reasons so I can educate my clients |
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