There is only one god

wahabian:

There is only one god

Well you should've said which God is the real God and provide proof to prove why all the other Gods are fake!

What i know is that there is one and only independent GOD.

The issue of Father, Son Holy Spirit is complicated to me.

That means Father will need assistance of Son to do somethings. e.g help me fetch water etc.
So the Son also depends on father for things like school fees.
Holy spirit nko?

please explain

The God of the bible is the Abrahmic God, so also is the God of the koran it only begs that it is the same god both religions are talking about. But then one question arises: were did abraham come from? The bible tells us that Abraham came from the land of Ur which as in ancient babylon present day Iraq.
Genesis 11:27-28:
27 This is the account of Terah’s family. Terah was the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran was the father of Lot. 28 But Haran died in Ur of the Chaldeans, the land of his birth, while his father, Terah, was still living.

Since Abraham was from Ur in Babylon, logic stands to reason that other people from that region must have known and worshipped Abraham's God. Could it be that other religions in that area(babylon) in biblical times were also worshipping the same God albeit tainted by tribe and tradition to look and seem diffrent from the God of the Bible?

KunleOshob:

Since Abraham was from Ur in Babylon, logic stands to reason that other people from that region must have known and worshipped Abraham's God. Could it be that other religions in that area(babylon) in biblical times were also worshipping the same God albeit tainted by tribe and tradition to look and seem diffrent from the God of the Bible?

There were indeed some besides Abraham who worshipped the same God. But if the Babylonians all worshipped the same God, He would not have asked the patriarch to leave his pagan background to a place that God would reveal to him.

yeah!

I don lost oooooooooooo

pilgrim.1:

There were indeed some besides Abraham who worshipped the same God. But if the Babylonians all worshipped the same God, He would not have asked the patriarch to leave his pagan background to a place that God would reveal to him.

So what happened to the descendants of these other people from where Abraham came from. There is no record in the Bible or in history that i am aware of that another group of people apart from the Israelites were worshipping the God of Abraham. Babylon (were Ur was) was always associated with paganism.

Hi Kunle,

KunleOshob:

So what happened to the descendants of these other people from where Abraham came from. There is no record in the Bible or in history that i am aware of that another group of people apart from the Israelites were worshipping the God of Abraham. Babylon (were Ur was) was always associated with paganism.

Actually, I believe that there are references in the Bible that some other people apart from the Israelites were worshipping the same God as Abraham did. Off my head, let me name just a few (I'll double-check later and perhaps add some more, correct me where I may be wrong):

■ Melchizedek - Genesis 14:18-20

There is no doubt that Melchizedek's pronouncements of "the most high God" points
to the same affiliation that would make Abraham recognize that he worshipped the
same God.

■ Jethro - Moses' father-in-law and priest of Midian (Exo. 18:1)

The Biblical narratives point me to the fact that, though he was not an Israelite or
one of the priests of Israel, he yet worshipped the same God as they did. How?
Well, first he recognized God's hand in their history and rejoiced in it (Exo. 18:9);
then also he called God by the same covenant name that was familiar to them in
their redemptive history (Exo. 18:10-11); we see him also offering burnt offerings
to the same God, and he had fellowship with the elders of Israel (verse 12).

■ Balaam - a prophet who knew the LORD, Numbers 22-24

It would seem clear that Balaam knew and communed with the same God that was
know to the Jews. The only problem was that he abused his gift - the gift of prophecy
and was consequently punished for it. However, several times before that, he had
clearly pronounced that he would consult with the LORD (Num. 22:8 -
"as the Lord shall speak unto me"; and when he would initially not succumb to their
requests, he declared: "I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God,
to do less or more."

I may be wrong; but these are the few that I remember just off my head (if the references may not be accurate, I think all the same that they point to the same thing, though - please check). There are a few others; but that will wait until I check my study notes.

Shalom.

pilgrim.1:

(if the references may not be accurate, I think all the same that they point to the same thing, though - please check).

Okay, I just checked and the references are so.

@pilgrim.1
I checked out you references and they check out, but the question still remains who are the descendants of these people today? What religion are they practising? I asked this questions cuase i read of other ancient religions in the mesopotanian area that date back 6000 years( aroud the time of genesis) that have certain similarites with the Judaism and christian faith. My question is could it have been the same religion that was later corrupted into other religions? After all even the children of israel attempted to also corrupt their faith by worshipping idols while Moses was on mount sinai. This is how religion get corrupted.

KunleOshob:

@pilgrim.1
I checked out you references and they check out, but the question still remains who are the descendants of these people today? What religion are they practising? I asked this questions cuase i read of other ancient religions in the mesopotanian area that date back 6000 years( aroud the time of genesis) that have certain similarites with the Judaism and christian faith. My question is could it have been the same religion that was later corrupted into other religions? After all even the children of israel attempted to also corrupt their faith by worshipping idols while Moses was on mount sinai. This is how religion get corrupted.

@KunleOshob,

Perhaps the query was not actually to find out if indeed there were people besides the Jews who worshipped the same God as did Abraham. I long suspected that was where you were going, but did not want to anticpate you. All the same, let me point out something to you:

Whatever God has committed to man, he has always corrupted - it doesn't matter whether it was Judaism, Christianity or any other faith. By "any other faith", I presuppose the understanding and revelation that people had back then before the emergence of Judaism and then Christianity. But although this is troubling to a lot of Christians, I don't have any problem with that fact.

Why and How?

Because in the first place we have noted that there are people knew and worshipped the same God as did Abraham. But let's go back long before Abraham - to Genesis 4:26 - "then began men to call upon the name of the LORD."

Now, hang on a minute or two. If men were calling upon the name of the LORD as far back as such an early period, what then are we to make of this? Granted, some Bible scholars understand the verse to read rather as "men began to call themselves by the name of the LORD" - that is, they gave names to their generations as derived from the LORD. Examples?

One possible understanding of this is the idea that certain people at that time appended the name of God to their own names, such as -

■ Mahal'ale-el (praise of God) - Gen. 5:15

■ Methu'sa[b]el[/b] (man of God) - Gen. 4:18

■ Mehu'ja[b]el[/b] (smitten by God) - Gen. 4:18

'El' is the simple derivative of the word or appellation "God", and it was not strange to find people naming their kinfolks by appending 'EL' ('God') to their names. This culture was not just for a season - because it continued even after the Flood. That is why we find Daniel was named "Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god" (Dan. 4:8.)

However, before Abraham, we now several people knew the LORD God - only, as you noted, they corrupted the worship of that God. It is not different even today - whatever has been committed to man's trust in the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, man has corrupted. But it doesn't mean that man cannot know Christ in spite of all the corruption. We can know and enjoy fellowship with Him: for that is why God gave us the Scriptures.

yes o.one GOD.any other one is a god

pilgrim.1:

We can know and enjoy fellowship with Him: for that is why God gave us the Scriptures.

This brings us to the issue we are arguing on another thread. How do we know which scripture is from God and which is not. (There were over 600 books claimed to be scripture by the 4th century AD.)

KunleOshob:

This brings us to the issue we are arguing on another thread. How do we know which scripture is from God and which is not. (There were over 600 books claimed to be scripture by the 4th century AD.)

Now Kunle, you were asking about who would have been worshipping the same God as Abraham did. This was what you were mainly concerned about:

KunleOshob:

There is no record in the Bible or in history that i am aware of that another group of people apart from the Israelites were worshipping the God of Abraham.

You were convinced that there is no record, either from -
- the Bible
- history
that others besides the Israelites were worshipping that same God. Now, in the last two replies, I have shown that there were. If that would not do, I really don't know what you're hoping me to assert beyond "Bible" or "history".

Cheers.

My darling Pilgrim.1: KunleOshob's question above, should be easy for you to answer. Please answer it and don't beg the question. He wants a direct answer from you. Your docking this question does not fit the quality of a religious pundit, like yourself.

there are so many gods, allah,jesus,skivsna,balahugen,kameinsur,omigiusdasis etc. . . .

olabowale:

My darling Pilgrim.1: KunleOshob's question above, should be easy for you to answer. Please answer it and don't beg the question. He wants a direct answer from you. Your docking this question does not fit the quality of a religious pundit, like yourself.

If Mr Kunle has not seen my answers, he clearly would have said I didn't answer to his questions on the Bible and the history just as he had asked. I have answered those questions:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-190428.0.html#msg3052436

He raised the issue of what books are included in the Bible and referred to the "other thread" - I have also been to that thread.

If you are the only ignorant muslim on the forum, others have seen it so many times it is hardly necessary to prove the fact.

@Pilgrim.1: « #8 on: November 07, 2008, 10:28 AM »

Hi Kunle,

Actually, I believe that there are references in the Bible that some other people apart from the Israelites were worshipping the same God as Abraham did. Off my head, let me name just a few (I'll double-check later and perhaps add some more, correct me where I may be wrong):

■ Melchizedek - Genesis 14:18-20

There is no doubt that Melchizedek's pronouncements of "the most high God" points
to the same affiliation that would make Abraham recognize that he worshipped the
same God.

And during the time of Abraham and Melchizedek, there could never have been a people known as Israelites. Israelites, a name known for the collective children of Jacob (a man renamed Israel because of his tussel with an angel of God), must have come much later. Considereing that the generation of Prophet Joseph, and his siblings will be the first people to actually be accurately named. If they are great grandchildren of Abraham, then Abraham could never be called an Israelite!

■ Jethro - Moses' father-in-law and priest of Midian (Exo. 18:1)

The Biblical narratives point me to the fact that, though he was not an Israelite or
one of the priests of Israel, he yet worshipped the same God as they did. How?
Well, first he recognized God's hand in their history and rejoiced in it (Exo. 18:9);
then also he called God by the same covenant name that was familiar to them in
their redemptive history (Exo. 18:10-11); we see him also offering burnt offerings
to the same God, and he had fellowship with the elders of Israel (verse 12).

Belief in One God was not limited to these people. Prior to the birth of Isaac, in the journey of Abraham and sarah to Egypt, one will see from the interraction of the Phraoh at that time, that he believed in One God. His simple request to Abraham to supplicate to his Lord and then giving him Hagar in marriage are both proofs.

I am sure that the Bible accused Abraham, a man declared as His Friend of adultery. Even the Pharaoh of the period of famine, when Joseph was the treasurer believed in One God.

■ Balaam - a prophet who knew the LORD, Numbers 22-24

It would seem clear that Balaam knew and communed with the same God that was
know to the Jews. The only problem was that he abused his gift - the gift of prophecy
and was consequently punished for it. However, several times before that, he had
clearly pronounced that he would consult with the LORD (Num. 22:8 -
"as the Lord shall speak unto me"; and when he would initially not succumb to their
requests, he declared: "I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God,
to do less or more."

A person who says he cannot go beyond the word of Lord my God, to do less or more, if true to his word, should not abuse the gift from God on him. There is a problem here, if one simply observe the fact that the two ideas are incongruent!

@Pilgrim.1: « #11 on: November 07, 2008, 02:16 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: KunleOshob on November 07, 2008, 12:42 PM
@pilgrim.1
I checked out you references and they check out, but the question still remains who are the descendants of these people today? What religion are they practising? I asked this questions cuase i read of other ancient religions in the mesopotanian area that date back 6000 years( aroud the time of genesis) that have certain similarites with the Judaism and christian faith. My question is could it have been the same religion that was later corrupted into other religions? After all even the children of israel attempted to also corrupt their faith by worshipping idols while Moses was on mount sinai. This is how religion get corrupted.

@KunleOshob,

Perhaps the query was not actually to find out if indeed there were people besides the Jews who worshipped the same God as did Abraham. I long suspected that was where you were going, but did not want to anticpate you. All the same, let me point out something to you:

Whatever God has committed to man, he has always corrupted - it doesn't matter whether it was Judaism, Christianity or any other faith. By "any other faith", I presuppose the understanding and revelation that people had back then before the emergence of Judaism and then Christianity. But although this is troubling to a lot of Christians, I don't have any problem with that fact.

The questions were not just about corruptions of man on the religion(s) what is entrusted to him from God. Kunle asked about the descendants of people who he assumed worshipped the One God before Abraham, and them later worshipped by the Israelites. And if such religion(s) that were pure but after the corruptions still managed to remain, even up to now, or at least to the advent of Christianity?

Interesting that you observe that Christianity may have been corrupted. Please tell us if there is a sect of Christianity that survives all the tormoil of man's influences, and still pure, as "Christ" would have left a religion and hoped that people after him would have worshipped?

Could there be from God a more than one pure religion, that He would accept worship from man, at the same time? Could you assume that Judaism is still pure, if it was what Moses brought from God, while at the same time Christianity is pure if it is what Jesus brought from God?

Why and How?

Because in the first place we have noted that there are people knew and worshipped the same God as did Abraham. But let's go back long before Abraham - to Genesis 4:26 - "then began men to call upon the name of the LORD."

Now, hang on a minute or two. If men were calling upon the name of the LORD as far back as such an early period, what then are we to make of this? Granted, some Bible scholars understand the verse to read rather as "men began to call themselves by the name of the LORD" - that is, they gave names to their generations as derived from the LORD. Examples?

One possible understanding of this is the idea that certain people at that time appended the name of God to their own names, such as -

■ Mahal'ale-el (praise of God) - Gen. 5:15

■ Methu'sael (man of God) - Gen. 4:18

■ Mehu'jael (smitten by God) - Gen. 4:18

'El' is the simple derivative of the word or appellation "God", and it was not strange to find people naming their kinfolks by appending 'EL' ('God') to their names. This culture was not just for a season - because it continued even after the Flood. That is why we find Daniel was named "Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god" (Dan. 4:8.)

One should wonder if El is not part of Eloi that sounds like what came out in the crying out on the cross? But interestingly, one should note that Jehovah and Yahweh, the names that Jews and Christians want people to accept as the Lord my God's name, do not be derived from the names of persons listed above.

My quick comment is this: Emmanu el seems to have the same underpinning as the other names. Yet, none of them is construed as god incarnate. Praise of God as a name is stronger than God is with us.

However, before Abraham, we now several people knew the LORD God - only, as you noted, they corrupted the worship of that God. It is not different even today - whatever has been committed to man's trust in the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, man has corrupted. But it doesn't mean that man cannot know Christ in spite of all the corruption. We can know and enjoy fellowship with Him: for that is why God gave us the Scriptures.

Blind leap of fate. Has we see, there was nothing leading anyone to a sudden change of Lord my God becoming lord Jesus Christ! You see a corruptive game in play, without any doubt. The game is stale.

olabowale:

@Pilgrim.1: « #11 on: November 07, 2008, 02:16 PM »
The questions were not just about corruptions of man on the religion(s) what is entrusted to him from God. Kunle asked about the descendants of people who he assumed worshipped the One God before Abraham, and them later worshipped by the Israelites. And if such religion(s) that were pure but after the corruptions still managed to remain, even up to now, or at least to the advent of Christianity?

Interesting that you observe that Christianity may have been corrupted. Please tell us if there is a sect of Christianity that survives all the tormoil of man's influences, and still pure, as "Christ" would have left a religion and hoped that people after him would have worshipped?

Could there be from God a more than one pure religion, that He would accept worship from man, at the same time? Could you assume that Judaism is still pure, if it was what Moses brought from God, while at the same time Christianity is pure if it is what Jesus brought from God?

All your effort is to discredit Christianity. This attitude of hypocrisy was why I examined Islam and dumped it. The questions Kunle asked have been answered and he did not disagree thereto.

olabowale:

One should wonder if El is not part of Eloi that sounds like what came out in the crying out on the cross? But interestingly, one should note that Jehovah and Yahweh, the names that Jews and Christians want people to accept as the Lord my God's name, do not be derived from the names of persons listed above.

My quick comment is this: Emmanu el seems to have the same underpinning as the other names. Yet, none of them is construed as god incarnate. Praise of God as a name is stronger than God is with us.

Muhammad did not know the God worshipped by the Jews - that is why the Muslim hate continues till this very day.

olabowale:

Blind leap of fate. Has we see, there was nothing leading anyone to a sudden change of Lord my God becoming lord Jesus Christ! You see a corruptive game in play, without any doubt. The game is stale.

There are over 72 sects in islam which have also corrupted Islam. Are you the only ignorant Muslim oblivious of that fact?

@Pilgrim.1: « #17 on: November 07, 2008, 10:33 PM »  

Quote from: olabowale on November 07, 2008, 09:19 PM
My darling Pilgrim.1: KunleOshob's question above, should be easy for you to answer. Please answer it and don't beg the question. He wants a direct answer from you. Your docking this question does not fit the quality of a religious pundit, like yourself.

If Mr Kunle has not seen my answers, he clearly would have said I didn't answer to his questions on the Bible and the history just as he had asked. I have answered those questions:

        https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-190428.0.html#msg3052436

He raised the issue of what books are included in the Bible and referred to the "other thread" - I have also been to that thread.

If you are the only ignorant muslim on the forum, others have seen it so many times it is hardly necessary to prove the fact.

lol. At least am not the smart person, who will not answer a direct question. I also see that you are too sensitive. I am hoping you will just answer questions, instead of telling us stories. I don't have stomach for any.

olabowale:

lol. At least am not the smart person, who will not answer a direct question. I also see that you are too sensitive. I am hoping you will just answer questions, instead of telling us stories. I don't have stomach for any.

I answered his questions. If your understanding misses them, no worries.

@Pilgrrim.1: « #20 on: Today at 01:21:57 AM »  

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:17:03 AM
@Pilgrim.1: « #11 on: November 07, 2008, 02:16 PM »
The questions were not just about corruptions of man on the religion(s) what is entrusted to him from God. Kunle asked about the descendants of people who he assumed worshipped the One God before Abraham, and them later worshipped by the Israelites. And if such religion(s) that were pure but after the corruptions still managed to remain, even up to now, or at least to the advent of Christianity?

Interesting that you observe that Christianity may have been corrupted. Please tell us if there is a sect of Christianity that survives all the tormoil of man's influences, and still pure, as "Christ" would have left a religion and hoped that people after him would have worshipped?

Could there be from God a more than one pure religion, that He would accept worship from man, at the same time? Could you assume that Judaism is still pure, if it was what Moses brought from God, while at the same time Christianity is pure if it is what Jesus brought from God?

All your effort is to discredit Christianity. This attitude of hypocrisy was why I examined Islam and dumped it. The questions Kunle asked have been answered and he did not disagree thereto.

Everyone can see your "good answer (lol)" to my statement above. I do not have to discredit Christianity. And hypocrisy is not coming from me. Everyone who know me will tell you where I stand. I am sure when you find a religion that promises you that there is no judgement day, because none can promise you that you will not die, you will "examine Christianity, too, and dump it" If one observes you enough, the traces of not wanting to be spiritually resposible is why you dump Islam for christianity, since you "think" that Jesus will bear your day of Judgement burden.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:17:03 AM
One should wonder if El is not part of Eloi that sounds like what came out in the crying out on the cross? But interestingly, one should note that Jehovah and Yahweh, the names that Jews and Christians want people to accept as the Lord my God's name, do not be derived from the names of persons listed above.

My quick comment is this: Emmanu el seems to have the same underpinning as the other names. Yet, none of them is construed as god incarnate. Praise of God as a name is stronger than God is with us.

Muhammad did not know the God worshipped by the Jews - that is why the Muslim hate continues till this very day.

Yet Muhammad (AS) proposed the worship of a singular God, who is complete in every respect and not sharing His Majesty with any. Is Allah in Arabic not equal in meaning to Olodumare of Yoruba "The Only God", while it is equal and sounds like Eloi, instead of Yahweh or Jehovah? Unless you are a great linguist in Arabic language, then you will see that you have no argument.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:17:03 AM
Blind leap of fate. Has we see, there was nothing leading anyone to a sudden change of Lord my God becoming lord Jesus Christ! You see a corruptive game in play, without any doubt. The game is stale.


There are over 72 sects in islam which have also corrupted Islam. Are you the only ignorant Muslim oblivious of that fact?

I never denied the 72 sects. But you do remember the 73rd sect as the sect that will never enter hell? Or dont you? But the irony of all of this is that you will note that in that very hadith, the whole 71 sects of Jewish (yahuud), and, the 72 sects of Christianity (nasara) will enter hell, without any having the same mercy as the 73rd sect from Islam, on the day of judgement.

Infact, they will not even in the long run have the same mercy from Lord my God as the 72 sects of muslims in hell, who will be forgiven, in as long as they were not Munafiiq. And we know that the Mushrikun were already counted among the inmates of hell. I don't have to repeat them since we are talking about Alul Kitab. And being people of the book does not mean people of intelligence. If that was the case, Judaism would have been the only religion and Christianity would never have been a relation that ever existed. lol.

Aburo, Oo tii sun ni dayi. O daaro. lol.

I answered his questions. If your understanding misses them, no worries.

lol; another broken record gimmick.

I answered his questions. If your understanding misses them, no worries. As long as you play the ignorance game, you keep getting the same answer.

And I just finished my Isha prayer. Your understanding can take it. No worries. lol. Bi asha awon badan; Oo bami nbe. You are feisty tonite. the big time player of game of ignorance is none other than lady pilgrim.1 herself.

I answered his questions. If your understanding misses them, no worries. As long as you play the ignorance game, you keep getting the same answer.