Based on the NFL player that left scars on his 4 year old boy, there's been a lot of debate about the rightfulness of beating/abusing a child.

I notice most black people believe there's a correlation between the amount of beating you get when growing up and how well you turn out in life.

"My dad beat me and I turned out just fine."
"My mum rubbed pepper in my privates and I became really successful in life. "

If there's indeed a positive correlation between beating and turning out fine, how come black people aren't the most successful group of people on the planet?

Because they are the rejected souls of their God's heaven!
The MARK of Cain they will forever bear!

"I notice most black people believe there's a correlation between the amount of beating you get when growing up and how well you turn out in life."
Not necessarily true.
I believe talking "senses" into a child and leading by example is the best method of correction.
Spanking the kid once in a while ain't bad though; after all the bible taught us not to "spare the rod and spoil the child".

Do whites beat also...

pickabeau1: Do whites beat also...

Whites rarely beat compared to blacks. Beating is a norm among blacks, not spanking o, border line child abuse kind of beating; it's something we gloat about.

I hate to make it a racial issue, but it is what it is.

BABE3:

Whites rarely beat compared to blacks. Beating is a norm among blacks, not spanking o, border line child abuse kind of beating; it's something we gloat about.

I hate to make it a racial issue, but it is what it is.

Why make an extreme case like Adrian p the norm
So the success of the whites has nothing to do with their greater wealth n military might?

Nothing to do with slavery n colonialism but because they don't beat their kids...

OK..

BABE3:
Whites rarely beat compared to blacks. Beating is a norm among blacks, not spanking o, border line child abuse kind of beating; it's something we gloat about.

I hate to make it a racial issue, but it is what it is.

All races of people beat their kids, and it's not just a black thing. I believe with white folks, especially the religious ones, it has more to do with the bible passage about "spare the rod and spoil the child." And Asians do beat the crap out of their kids.

Also, the Adrian Peterson thingy (NFL player) that inspired you to create this thread, is more of an American South culture - and not just exclusive to blacks.

This is Tony Blair here talking about smacking his kids (excerpts):

Tony Blair has owned up to smacking his three elder children, but said that he had never hit his five-year-old son Leo.

The Prime Minister disclosed he had changed his attitude to corporal punishment as he launched the Government's action plan for restoring a sense of respect to society, including extra help for parents.

Questioned by BBC2's Newsnight over whether he smacked his children, he said: "I'm probably different with my youngest than I was with my older ones."

Previously Mr Blair has backed parents' right to use corporal punishment to discipline their children.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/i-smacked-my-elder-children-but-never-hit-leo-reveals-blair-522494.html


Not saying I support it, but it isn't just a black thing.

Back to your thread:

With all due respect - I honestly think you're trying to find a non-existent correlation between two conflating issues here. While I'm not in a position to speak for blacks in Africa, I think I can speak about an experience I understand - and other experiences I can somewhat relate to.

Personally, I'd say the reason why blacks aren't as successful as other races has more to do with the systematic dehumanisation of black people in general. And also the degeneration of the black family structure, which has more or less become a vicious cycle. Coupled with the fact that most times, as a black person, you have to always work twice as hard as everyone else, for recognition - and the institutional racism which has preferences based skin shades(the lighter your shade is, the better) also doesn't help.

Also, once you look at the dysfunctional family structure of most black families, in which most kids were raised in - and also the environment - you'll actually laud the achievements of black people in general. Especially those folks who have been able to go against all odds to achieve greatness. Regardless, there's still a great deal of improvement that needs to be made. And I believe as humanity continues to progress, black folks will eventually reach their rightful place, where they belong.

Let me cite an example by using America, which has one of the largest black diaspora population. Ever wondered why whenever there's white flight in any America city - businesses/companies, good public schools (due to the lack of good teachers) etc. also follow suit, and most of these cities always turn to rundown cities, especially in a country that's still deeply segregated? And when companies and businesses leave due to flight of white folks who have the higher purchasing power (black folks are far below white folks when it comes household income disparities) - unemployment rate and lack of quality education/social-facilities will increase. Thus, affecting the chances of success for any kid raised in that type of environment. Also, in the UK for example, there aren't that many opportunities in areas dominated by blacks. Ditto dearth of good public schools in such areas. So, how do you expect folks from such disadvantaged backgrounds to be able to compete with other folks - from a far better background? That's basically one of the aspects of white privilege most folks allude to. A privilege black people don't have.

Moreover, white folks have been at the top for more than 400 years, and despite the fact that they built today's "civilisation" in which we're all governed by, on the backs on black folks - they had an head-start 400 years before black folks. And you don't expect them to give that up easily, do you?

pickabeau1:

Why make an extreme case like Adrian p the norm
So the success of the whites has nothing to do with their greater wealth n military might?

Nothing to do with slavery n colonialism but because they don't beat their kids...

OK..

Isn't it the norm? Isn't that how africans beat their kids on the regular.... "spare the rod and spoil the child".

but, africans/AAs always claim they turned out to be wonderful people thanks to the good ol' âss whooping they got.

These same wonderful black individuals make up the black communities that make up arguably the most backward race.

Why is that so?

ok...


i think you have another agenda...

i will sit this one out

BABE3:
Isn't it the norm? Isn't that how africans beat their kids on the regular.... "spare the rod and spoil the child".
but, africans/AAs always claim they turned out to be wonderful people thanks to the good ol' âss whooping they got.
These same wonderful black individuals make up the black communities that make up arguably the most backward race.
Why is that so?

Shymexx,

When I talk about beating, I'm not talking about smacking; I'm talking about belt, koboko, wire, shoes, iron sort of beating.

the correlation does exist among black people; they claim they're better than the whites because they got beat. I hear that alot from africans and african-americans.

"Those white kids are so rude and spoilt; thank God my mama whooped my ãss. "

If they are "better" than the white and unruly kids, shouldn't that reflect in the black society in some way? Shouldn't that give us an edge over them in some way?

pickabeau1: ok...
i think you have another agenda...
i will sit this one out

My agenda is to know how beating has helped the black community (how it makes them better than the whites).

I want to know if there's really a logic behind aggresive beating or if it's just a therapic way to release anger and frustration.

Sitting..

na wa o, probably we should stop eatin eba because whites dnt eat it nd are yet successful

BABE3:


Isn't it the norm? Isn't that how africans beat their kids on the regular.... "spare the rod and spoil the child".

but, africans/AAs always claim they turned out to be wonderful people thanks to the good ol' âss whooping they got.

[s]These same wonderful black individuals make up the black communities that make up arguably the most backward race. [/s]

Why is that so?

How did you come about that? @emboldened...

BABE3: Based on the NFL player that left scars on his 4 year old boy, there's been a lot of debate about the rightfulness of beating/abusing a child.

I notice most black people believe there's a correlation between the amount of beating you get when growing up and how well you turn out in life.

"My dad beat me and I turned out just fine."
"My mum rubbed pepper in my privates and I became really successful in life. "

If there's indeed a positive correlation between beating and turning out fine, how come black people aren't the most successful group of people on the planet?

the black people have been subjugated & have not been fully allowed to reach their potential apart from entertainment(sports & music)

slavery took black people backwards by about 1,000 years and they are still playing catch-up. i am not really sure the cane had something to do with this - i am sure cameron & his mates got caned in school cos corporal punishment was a norm back then.

coogar:

the black people have been subjugated & have not been fully allowed to reach their potential apart from entertainment(sports & music)

slavery took black people backwards by about 1,000 years and they are still playing catch-up. i am not really sure the cane had something to do with this - i am sure cameron & his mates got caned in school cos corporal punishment was a norm back then.

Were the ones in africa subjugated too?

You'd agree with me that child abuse (what African parents call discipline) affects kids negatively. Kids that are inquisitive are considered "rude". Kids can't question their parents. The parents are never wrong; then on top of that you add the senseless beatings.

if we change our method of "training", don't you think we'll be a lot better off?

Plus, when black people say they turned out wonderful coz of the beating they got, what do they mean then?

crackhaus:
How did you come about that? @emboldened...

Go on any thread here about beating and notice the comments. Kids that aren't beaten are considered "spoilt and rotten" to a typical african.

BABE3:
Were the ones in africa subjugated too?

slavery screwed africa - the best of the best human resources got carted away on slave ships. they only took youths & left the old folks in the villages.

You'd agree with me that child abuse (what African parents call discipline) affects kids negatively. Kids that are inquisitive are considered "rude". Kids can't questions their parents. The parents are never wrong; then on top of that you add the senseless beatings.

it goes both ways. the african discipline definitely limit kids to fully explore his creative mind & at the same time, it limits them to fully explore their destructive nature.

for the white kids, there's no limit to what they can do creatively & destructively. so which is the best? i dunno......however, if kids in africa have the freedom like their peers in the west, africa would be an animal kingdom.

if we change our method of "training", don't you think we'll be a lot better off?

freedom brings all sorts of nonsense along. where do you then draw the line? you want our teenage girls to bring their boyfriends in their bedroom & have sex while the parents are listening to their moans & groans?

Plus, when black people say they turned out wonderful coz of the beating they got, what do they mean then?

they mean they didn't chart the destructive course of their white counterparts who seem to have drug problems, teenage pregnancy, lack of respect for the authorities, college drop-outs, etc.

They mean they didn't chart the destructive course of their white counterparts who seem to have drug problems, teenage pregnancy, lack of respect for the authorities, college drop-outs, etc

and you think we dont have these problems in black communities? We respect authority? Lets use the most populous black nation (nigeria) as an example; which one of those things you listed isn't prevalent?

We know the actual number of drug problems, drop outs and teenage pregnancies in white countries. Do we have such numbers in NIgeria? Do you know how many of us are dealing with drug problems in NIgeria and hide under the umbrella of "satanic attack"? It will shock you that we're not any better; we just pretend more.

"it goes both ways. the african discipline definitely limit kids to fully explore his creative mind & at the same time, it limits them to fully explore their destructive nature.

for the white kids, there's no limit to what they can do creatively & destructively. so which is the best? i dunno......however, if kids in africa have the freedom like their peers in the west, africa would be an animal kingdom. "

When I say change our method of discipline, I don't mean switch to white method. But personally I''ll have an extreme white method over the extreme black one any day any time.

Haven't you seen black kids that are perfectly balanced without little or no beating/child abuse? I have cousins and friends that were never beaten and they're respectful and morally upright than most "battered" people I know.

I also know / and there are a lot of white people that turned out wonderful and respectful to people and their parents.

I gave two examples that have "little or no beating" as a common denominator. If kids can be well trained without beating you'd agree with me that beating is a lazy form of parenting and a way for blacks to vent off their anger and frustration at the world on poor kids.

BABE3:
and you think we dont have these problems in black communities? We respect authority? Lets use the most populous black nation (nigeria) as an example; which one of those things you listed isn't prevalent?

we do have that problem in nigeria but it's mostly because of poverty. if we are given handouts like western kids, i strongly believe the social ills would be nonexistent. 90% is the reason we commit crimes in nigeria. nigerians don't just kill people cos they are mentally-ill, financial benefit has to be involved.

We know the actual number of drug problems, drop outs and teenage pregnancies in white countries. Do we have such numbers in NIgeria? It will shock you that we're not any better; we just pretend more.

we both know the number would have been way higher without corporal punishment. the system works - it's just that it limits the creativity & the destructive nature of children. africans believe once the destructive side is curbed, the rest is tolerable even if that child's creativity has been numbed.

When I say change our method of discipline, I don't mean switch to white method. But personally I''ll have a extreme white method over the extreme black one any day any time.

we don't even have the resources to deal with the consequences of the extreme white method. imagine having intelligent serial killers like ted bundy in nigeria, he would kill billions of women & he would never ever be discovered. a country with no forensic science, no effective police force, etc - how would they catch a serial killer?

Haven't you seen black kids that are perfectly balanced without little or no beating/child abuse? I have cousins and friends that were never beaten and they're respectful and morally upright than most "battered" people I know.

even the ones that were never beaten must have seen their mates getting thrashed. the fear alone is enough reason to hold them back. when you see how thieves are beaten in the market, you don't need to be told you should never steal in a naija market.

I also know / and there are a lot of white people that turned out wonderful and respectful to people and their parents.

some of them get spanked too. some white parents still make use of corporal punishments. it's not just prevalent like ours in africa.

I gave two examples that have "little or no beating" as a common denominator. If kids can be well trained without beating you'd agree with me that beating is a lazy form of parenting and a way for blacks to vent off their anger and frustration at the world on poor kids.

beating works, my friend.
the defining line is don't overbeat - this is where some african parents generally get it wrong. they cross the line between beating to correct & beating to totally abuse a child.

BABE3:

Whites rarely beat compared to blacks. Beating is a norm among blacks, not spanking o, border line child abuse kind of beating; it's something we gloat about.

I hate to make it a racial issue, but it is what it is.

It isn't a racial issue at all. Many white people beat their kids, too. It has changed in some white countries, not all.

Coogar, When I say "beating", I'm not talking spanking or smacking; some.kids do need that at some point. I'm talking belt; shoes; koboko; pepper; iron kind of beating at every opportunity.

What brought about this topic was that I was on an African american forum and most of them didn't see anything wrong in what that NFL player did to his little man.

Overbeating is what is becoming the norm even in this day and age. I am very confident that a good 80% of african parents won't find anything wrong in what the man did. Isn't That a problem?

I gave examples of kids and people that weren't beaten and are better than the ones that were beaten.

My conclusion is It's easier to beat a child than to train a child; and since black people are generally mentally lazier, it makes sense that they overuse/overdo the beating. Any objections?

carefreewannabe:

It isn't a racial issue at all. Many white people beat their kids, too. It has changed in some white countries, not all.

yes, I know white people smack/spank their kids.

My point is, like coogar rightly said, black people cross that line of "spanking" and "child abuse". Agree?

BABE3: Coogar, When I say "beating", I'm not talking spanking or smacking; some.kids do need that at some point. I'm talking belt; shoes; koboko; pepper; iron kind of beating at every opportunity.

we are saying the same thing. using belt & shoes, horsewhip & pepper is an overkill. it wouldn't achieve more than the normal spanking or smacking. one shouldn't even use the belt on animals, let alone one's kids.

What brought about this topic was that I was on an African american forum and most of them didn't see anything wrong in what that NFL player did to his little man.

and that's because they were trained that way. a man who was beaten all his life and turned out good would easily think beating his child would achieve the same results. we are a product of our environment.

Overbeating is what is becoming the norm even in this day and age. I am very confident that a good 80% of african parents won't find anything wrong in what the man did. Isn't That a problem?

they won't find a problem with it cos that was how they were raised too. as far as they are concerned, it's the surest way of setting their kids straight.

I gave examples of kids and people that weren't beaten and are better than the ones that were beaten. It's easier to beat a child than to train a child.

stop assuming all children are the same.

some kids are generally quiet & docile, abeg. you would never have any caste to smack them because they do what they are told 95% of the time.

there are some kids who are generally troublesome. nah, you cannot handle those with soft hands. they will kill you before your time if you allow them. definitely, those ones need their bütts whacked till it turns red.

BABE3:

yes, I know white people smack/spank their kids.

My point is, like coogar rightly said, black people cross that line of "spanking" and "child abuse". Agree?

Define child abuse, please.

BABE3: Based on the NFL player that left scars on his 4 year old boy, there's been a lot of debate about the rightfulness of beating/abusing a child.

I notice most black people believe there's a correlation between the amount of beating you get when growing up and how well you turn out in life.

"My dad beat me and I turned out just fine."
"My mum rubbed pepper in my privates and I became really successful in life. "

If there's indeed a positive correlation between beating and turning out fine, how come black people aren't the most successful group of people on the planet?

U will be surprise we do OK, find out victims of child abuse most dat ended up as serial killers and rapist are white.

shymexx: Back to your thread:

With all due respect - I honestly think you're trying to find a non-existent correlation between two conflating issues here. While I'm not in a position to speak for blacks in Africa, I think I can speak about an experience I understand - and other experiences I can somewhat relate to.

Personally, I'd say the reason why blacks aren't as successful as other races has more to do with the systematic dehumanisation of black people in general. And also the degeneration of the black family structure, which has more or less become a vicious cycle. Coupled with the fact that most times, as a black person, you have to always work twice as hard as everyone else, for recognition - and the institutional racism which has preferences based skin shades(the lighter your shade is, the better) also doesn't help.

Also, once you look at the dysfunctional family structure of most black families, in which most kids were raised in - and also the environment - you'll actually laud the achievements of black people in general. Especially those folks who have been able to go against all odds to achieve greatness. Regardless, there's still a great deal of improvement that needs to be made. And I believe as humanity continues to progress, black folks will eventually reach their rightful place, where they belong.

Let me cite an example by using America, which has one of the largest black diaspora population. Ever wondered why whenever there's white flight in any America city - businesses/companies, good public schools (due to the lack of good teachers) etc. also follow suit, and most of these cities always turn to rundown cities, especially in a country that's still deeply segregated? And when companies and businesses leave due to flight of white folks who have the higher purchasing power (black folks are far below white folks when it comes household income disparities) - unemployment rate and lack of quality education/social-facilities will increase. Thus, affecting the chances of success for any kid raised in that type of environment. Also, in the UK for example, there aren't that many opportunities in areas dominated by blacks. Ditto dearth of good public schools in such areas. So, how do you expect folks from such disadvantaged backgrounds to be able to compete with other folks - from a far better background? That's basically one of the aspects of white privilege most folks allude to. A privilege black people don't have.

Moreover, white folks have been at the top for more than 400 years, and despite the fact that they built today's "civilisation" in which we're all governed by, on the backs on black folks - they had an head-start 400 years before black folks. And you don't expect them to give that up easily, do you?

I like how your brain works these days your trying!

BABE3:
Coogar, When I say "beating", I'm not talking spanking or smacking; some.kids do need that at some point. I'm talking belt; shoes; koboko; pepper; iron kind of beating at every opportunity.

What brought about this topic was that I was on an African american forum and most of them didn't see anything wrong in what that NFL player did to his little man.

Overbeating is what is becoming the norm even in this day and age. I am very confident that a good 80% of african parents won't find anything wrong in what the man did. Isn't That a problem?

I gave examples of kids and people that weren't beaten and are better than the ones that were beaten.

My conclusion is It's easier to beat a child than to train a child; and since black people are generally mentally lazier, it makes sense that they overuse/overdo the beating. Any objections?

True