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The Mormon Religion - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: The Mormon Religion by Duncan(m): 1:12pm On Oct 12, 2005
Hnd-holder:

Some people got it wrong. I pity them.

You are the one that got it wrong Mr. HND. The bible says god of this system of things(satan D Devil) has blinded the eyes of some so they wont see the illuminations of God's glory safe they benefit from it. Believe Christ in totality else you'll be damned....(no offence intended)

Shalom
Re: The Mormon Religion by Hndholder(m): 5:07pm On Oct 12, 2005
You are welcome.
Cool down as we are not in church here.
Dogman is an infectious thing so it blinds peoples face.
You see God talk to people after the last chapter of the bible. He spoke in HOLY Koran, Grail message, ECkanker, God spoke to Kristina as well. Non of this people come here to speak evil of the so called " BORN AGAIN" who were all disturbing people with small thing they were permitted to hear. You over play on some issues as if you knew any thing more than what you were told basing your life on opinion of others. What is BIBLE? Just a book collection of Europe adopted scrolls.

Let every one face his own God. If you try me again you will be exposed.
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 3:52pm On Oct 13, 2005
By their fruits you sahll know them. I knew i wasnt talking to a christain allthe while. I knew it in my heart. i just wanted to give you time to expose yourself.

Any religion that includes Jesus as a prophet, magician, healer, good man, and not as The son of God with power is false.

the bible is not just a collection of letters, it is the inspired word of God my friend.

All the other books talked about Jesus ...only as a fraudulent way to give credence to thier lies.

So examine yourself!
Re: The Mormon Religion by Hndholder(m): 3:59pm On Oct 13, 2005
Pharisees claim to be the most clean person they pray so that people can see them. Dogman will not permit some good thinking for some self acclaimed Christian. Who is a Christian? not a Dogmatic fellow anyway.
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 11:55am On Oct 15, 2005
When it comes to truth, there are no grey areas. Because truth is absolute.

How do you know Jesus was Born of a Virgin? Why don't you also try to reason that out? How do you know Jesus was raised from the dead bodily? Were you there?

...Anyway, you probably don't believe, because there is no way you could prove that anyway except by a humble acceptance of that message as truth. Only then can you experience the power of that truth.

There is nothing like relative truth...so don't try to bring disgrace by camoflagging as a christain only to speak against th foundamentals of our faith which we all have accepteed as truth.
Re: The Mormon Religion by Hndholder(m): 8:27am On Oct 17, 2005
Seun, better tell this impostor to conform to rules by following the threads. I will open up for this blackfame rs o. Nairaland is not for one church or religion.
Re: The Mormon Religion by nferyn(m): 9:53am On Oct 17, 2005
donnie:

When it comes to truth, there are no grey areas. Because truth is absolute.

How do you know Jesus was Born of a Virgin? Why don't you also try to reason that out? How do you know Jesus was raised from the dead bodily? Were you there?

...Anyway, you probably don't believe, because there is no way you could prove that anyway except by a humble acceptance of that message as truth. Only then can you experience the power of that truth.

There is nothing like relative truth...so don't try to bring disgrace by camoflagging as a christain only to speak against th foundamentals of our faith which we all have accepteed as truth.

What do you mean? Only Christians can discuss their beliefs? No criticism is allowed because the Bible cannot be proven to be history? Contradictions should be overlooked because they come from non believers?

What kind of attitude is that? Leave me with my precious beliefs because they are too fragile to stand questioning?

If that is the case, than your stance is intellectual laziness of the highest order.
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 2:03pm On Oct 17, 2005
Please understand that i am not against any religion... neither am i against anyone. I really do not have the time for that. In fact i have personal friends who belong to other religions and we respect each others opinions.

My concern here is not about non-christains but about those who come under the guise of practicing believing christians only to speak carelessly and contradict God's word. If you are not a christian, simply say so. If you are a theologian, let us know because i know that there are many theologians who though they have been sudying the scriptures for years,  do not believe in Jesus.

And i, like Jesus, will not allow these truths which have been handed down through many generations to us, to be diluted and wattered down by anyone in the name of intellectualism.

Jude 1:3 - Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.   

Matthew 11:25 - At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 

Corinthians 1:20 - Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?   

1 Corinthians 2:6 - Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:   

1 Corinthians 3:19 - For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.   

I am simply making clear to you what we as practicing christians believe. Do not be mistaken, i sincerly love u guys. I am just defending my faith.

Maybe if we happen to meet some day, u will understand better.
Re: The Mormon Religion by Duncan(m): 5:33pm On Oct 25, 2005
Hey, dont let us mix something up here, Please kindly tell us about this Mormmon of a Religion so one can actually have the knowledge about them. Thank you.
Re: The Mormon Religion by pie1ect(m): 8:52pm On Nov 18, 2005
I don't know much about the Mormon religion but I tell you guys something, and this one I know 100%.

There was a time my dad was kind'a getting interested in Mormon and he bought a handful of their books, including their "Bible" and something about the founder. One day when I was at home alone, I decided to read these two books and get a feel of what the religion was about. Trust me guys, I fell asleep and when I woke up, those two books had disappeared. God knows where they went.
B4 you start assuming, I'll tell you I was at home alone, not even the "gateman" was in. The only other people with their own keys,apart from me, were my parents and they were out of town together. Moreover, I only slept for 30mins max. The House was securely locked, as I did not want anybody popping in and finding me on the couch reading Mormon books. I searched everywhere I could, nothing. When we moved houses, I had my eyes out for these books, but they was nowhere to be seen.

I am not attempting to pass any judgement on them, but that's the strangest thing that ever happened to me. My HOLY BIBLE never bailed out on me b4.
My dad never asked b'cos my mum and me had been giving him serious grief about his interest in Mormon. I guess he concluded I had burnt the books or whatever.
Re: The Mormon Religion by nferyn(m): 9:11pm On Nov 18, 2005
donnie:

Please understand that i am not against any religion... neither am i against anyone. I really do not have the time for that. In fact i have personal friends who belong to other religions and we respect each others opinions.
Thank you for making that clear. I'm quite sure you're a swell guy to meet in person wink The impersonal aspect of the internet and the lack of nuance makes people express their emotions a little more harshly than they would in a face to face conversation.

donnie:

My concern here is not about non-christains but about those who come under the guise of practicing believing christians only to speak carelessly and contradict God's word. If you are not a christian, simply say so. If you are a theologian, let us know because i know that there are many theologians who though they have been sudying the scriptures for years, do not believe in Jesus.
I think you have a wrong understanding of the breath of opinions among Christians. For example, many Ethiopian Christians have never used the Bible, they were not even aware of it's existence until recently. Are they not Christians?
If so, why can one not be Christian without taking the Bible as the literal word of God?
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 6:50pm On Nov 21, 2005
That they did not have access to the bible shouldnt be seen as a recommendation but as a subject of great concern requiring swift response/action.
Re: The Mormon Religion by nferyn(m): 9:47pm On Nov 21, 2005
donnie:

That they did not have access to the bible shouldnt be seen as a recommendation but as a subject of great concern requiring swift response/action.
So you honestly, truly believe that your tradition is more valueable than theirs

Their tradition is probably much closer to the original christian churches than yours as it has not been watered down by countless political interventions.

Maybe you should read a bit about the council of Nicea and the establishment of the Catholic Church as state church in the Roman Empire to understand the roots of the Bible as a book
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 6:19pm On Nov 22, 2005
If it were just for the written Word, maybe i will not be as sure as i am now. but you see, i have the Spirit of truth whom Jesus promised to come and guide us into all truth, living in me. He confirms the written Word in our hearts.

You ask me to prove that? It is like asking me to prove the exixtence of God. I will not need to because it takes the same Spirit of truth with his convicting power and with the miracles that he does to convict any man of his reality.
Re: The Mormon Religion by nferyn(m): 10:59pm On Nov 22, 2005
donnie:

If it were just for the written Word, maybe i will not be as sure as i am now. but you see, i have the Spirit of truth whom Jesus promised to come and guide us into all truth, living in me. He confirms the written Word in our hearts.

You ask me to prove that? It is like asking me to prove the exixtence of God. I will not need to because it takes the same Spirit of truth with his convicting power and with the miracles that he does to convict any man of his reality.

Thus closing all discussion, as you have a personal experience that validates your position. It is beyond scrutiny. What about people that have exactly the same kind of experience, only using different sources (such as the gnostic gospel by Thomas)?
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 4:00pm On Nov 23, 2005
How do you know it is the same experience?

And besides, god's Word commands us to follow th written Word as a light that shines in the dark. If not, how can we know the way...or how can we distinguish b/w what is right and what is wrong if the scriptures do not shed light on it?

Thw Word is as light to our path.
Re: The Mormon Religion by nferyn(m): 4:23pm On Nov 23, 2005
donnie:

How do you know it is the same experience?

Nobody can ever know and that's precisely the problem. You cannot scale or compare these experiences, so for someone that did not have these experiences, their subjectivity means that it cannot be a basis for comparison or a basis for evidence. Only a shared [i]language [/i]can settle the dispute.

donnie:

And besides, god's Word commands us to follow th written Word as a light that shines in the dark. If not, how can we know the way...or how can we distinguish b/w what is right and what is wrong if the scriptures do not shed light on it?

Thw Word is as light to our path.

I guess your falling in the trap of using something that is not shared (the place/position of the Bible) to prove a position on what is shared (the belief in Christ). You do not even communicate with these people like that, because they have a different frame of reference. You can only use what you share to communicate

Could you tell us what's your position on the gospels that were not cannonised or the dead sea scrolls?
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 5:06pm On Nov 23, 2005
What if i demostrated the power of what i believe for you to see?

I guess you will call me a magictian.
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 5:09pm On Nov 23, 2005
I know i cannot communicate with those people like that. That is why we were commanded by the scriptures to preach the Word, not with mere words but with the demonstration of the Spirit and of power.
Re: The Mormon Religion by goodguy(m): 10:03pm On Nov 23, 2005
This is interesting. cool
Re: The Mormon Religion by Ajisafe: 11:03pm On Nov 24, 2005
What if i demostrated the power of what i believe for you to see?

I guess you will call me a magictian.


@ donnie, what else are you going to do? Can you do better than Jesus of old? Please, let's have a breathing space! All your so-called miracle workers are themselves in need of miracle -- a good example will be Pastor Obadare. Please, Donnie, restore Obadare's eyesight first before you even worry about being called a magician. Even that Ayefele singer of a guy can use a pair of good legs; at least, it will enable him to churn out more "gospel records." What says you, Donnie boy?
Re: The Mormon Religion by goodguy(m): 12:00pm On Nov 25, 2005
Even in the Bible, there were people who had disabilities and God knew about it. Does that mean God cannot heal them or what? There's always a reason for everything ok?


Genesis 32:21-32.

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.."
Re: The Mormon Religion by nferyn(m): 12:33pm On Nov 25, 2005
donnie:

I know i cannot communicate with those people like that. That is why we were commanded by the scriptures to preach the Word, not with mere words but with the demonstration of the Spirit and of power.
Donnie, i have the feeling you're circling around the issues here. Maybe we do not share a common language undecided Can you reply to my simple questions?

1. Is your Christian tradition more valueable than the Ethiopian one? If so, what makes it more valueable?
2. Is the Bible:
a. the word of God?
b. inspired by God?
c. Allegorical?
d. Literal?
3. Do you consider the apocrypical gospels (such as the Gospel by Thomas)
a. as valuable as the canonized gospels?
b. less valuable than the canonized gospels?
c. inspired by God?
4. If you consider the apocryphical gospels as less valuable than the canonized gospels, on what basis do you make that distinction?
5. What is the root source of your belief:
a. the Bible?
b. experience with the holy spirit?
c. a combination of both
d. something else?
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 2:47pm On Nov 25, 2005
You see, the reason it seems as though i am not answering straightforward is that you really cannot put God in a box...of sense knowledge. So trying to carve my belief or rather this discussion in those outlines, questions and/ sentenses just wouldnt work for me. Jesus was that way. His words sounded like parables to those that did not believe. i am not a theologean. i am a christian.

However, let me respond to some of them:

1. What we cherish in chistianity is not just the traditions or religion. It is more than that. Christianity is not a religion...it is the pulsating life of God in a human person. There is religion in Christainity... but christainity is not a religion! This is all that pure religion is about:

James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jeus did not come to introduce another religion to us. He came to give us life: "i am come that they might have life and that they might have it to the full."

2. The bible contains the Word of God. Men of God spoke as they were moved of the Spirit of God. Jeus, Paul, Peter and the rest of the Apostles esteemed God's Word highly as authority and quoted from the same. We cannot do less. Infact, we are told to stick to the sciptures as a light that shines in a dark place.

2 Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

3. Have you read the gospel of thomas before? I have said before that the reason many of those books were not recognised is because hey did not have any evidence of divine inspiration. No prophesies concerning the messiah. There were no connections to or quotaion from any of the known prophets of God. The Jews themselves never considered these books to be God-inspired. There were seveal poetic books at the time which contained contemporary wisdom written by poets of their time. (REf: write to Loveworld School of Ministry- www.loveworldchistiannetwork.net)

They were introduced and added much later ...several years after the books as we have in the King James version of the bible were chosen as canonical. Only the catholic church recognised those other books even as at the time.
Re: The Mormon Religion by nferyn(m): 3:16pm On Nov 25, 2005
donnie:

You see, the reason it seems as though i am not answering straightforward is that you really cannot put God in a box...of sense knowledge. So trying to carve my belief or rather this discussion in those outlines, questions and/ sentenses just wouldnt work for me. Jesus was that way. His words sounded like parables to those that did not believe. i am not a theologean. i am a christian.
That's exactly what it sounds like to me: some parables which are a source for a moral foundation. I just think we're occupying different realms here. No intellectual underpinning of the Christian faith has ever been convincing to me. Even the proof of the existence of God by Thomas Aquinas was sloppy, circular thinking.
Let's just say that I cannot understand your belief just as a human cannot understand the way a bat [i]sees [/i]through sound.

Let me tell you that I'm baffled by the number of people that follow orthodox religions (especially the different branches of Christianity). I cannot understand how adult, thinking humans can come to such positions and that's why I try to learn and understand their motivations and thiinking as much as possible. That's also why I like to participate in those threads about religion. I want to learn about and from those people that have these very different modes of thinking.

donnie:

However, let me respond to some of them:

1. What we cherish in chistianity is not just the traditions or religion. It is more than that. Christianity is not a religion...it is the pulsating life of God in a human person. There is religion in Christainity... but christainity is not a religion! This is all that pure religion is about:

James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jeus did not come to introduce another religion to us. He came to give us life: "i am come that they might have life and that they might have it to the full."
Can you explain that to me? Did he give us life by taking away the original sin by dying on the cross? It really seems quite nonsensical to me. I just cannot get my head around it.

donnie:

2. The bible contains the Word of God. Men of God spoke as they were moved of the Spirit of God. Jeus, Paul, Peter and the rest of the Apostles esteemed God's Word highly as authority and quoted from the same. We cannot do less. Infact, we are told to stick to the sciptures as a light that shines in a dark place.

2 Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.
So then you're of the opinion that the Bible should be taken literally. If that is the case, why is it so full of contradictions?

donnie:

3. Have you read the gospel of thomas before? I have said before that the reason many of those books were not recognised is because hey did not have any evidence of divine inspiration. No prophesies concerning the messiah. There were no connections to or quotaion from any of the known prophets of God. The Jews themselves never considered these books to be God-inspired. There were seveal poetic books at the time which contained contemporary wisdom written by poets of their time. (REf: write to Loveworld School of Ministry- www.loveworldchistiannetwork.net)
I have, but it's been a long time.
How exactly do you determine divine inspiration? Who judges of whether or not something is divinely inspired?

donnie:

They were introduced and added much later ...several years after the books as we have in the King James version of the bible were chosen as canonical. Only the catholic church recognised those other books even as at the time.
Most apocryphical gospels and texts were written in the same time period as the canonical gospels. Can you be a little more specific concerning your timesframe. I don't understand your point
Re: The Mormon Religion by elbaron(m): 6:28pm On Nov 25, 2005
Just a quick one reading the heading of this thread. Mormonism is not a religion. It is sect of the Christian RELIGION
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 11:37am On Nov 26, 2005
Can you explain that to me? Did he give us life by taking away the original sin by dying on the cross? It really seems quite nonsensical to me. I just cannot get my head around it.

Not only did he take away iooriginal sin,; He gave us the life that is in the father. That is eternal life. The very essencce of life that makes God God. For which reason he is called God. He did not just save us from original sin. But he destroyed the power of sin thereby leaving the christian with dominion over sin, condemnation and death. This is what the gospel is all about. I t is not mere religion. It is the pulsating life of God in Man.
Re: The Mormon Religion by donnie(m): 11:55am On Nov 26, 2005
1Jn 5:11,-12 -"And this is the record, that God hath given to  us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.  He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." This is what christianity is all about. That a man can have the God-life in him. This life is not subject to sin, disease, defeat or death. This is the gospel. Nonsensical you say hun?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.     No hard feelings plsss.
Re: The Mormon Religion by goodguy(m): 8:41pm On Nov 26, 2005
@nferyn,
"A 'mystery' in Scripture is a previously hidden truth, now divinely revealed, but in which a super-natural element still remains despite the revelation" (Dr. C. I. Scofield).

In studying God's Word we should always remember: "The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever. . ." (Deut. 29:29).

To really understand the word of GOD, you need to believe in HIM. If you don't believe in HIM, his word will continually seem to be 'nonsensical' to you.

Mark 4:11-12: Unto you, (believers) it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but unto them that are without, (unbelievers) all these things are done in parables; that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them”.
Re: The Mormon Religion by nferyn(m): 9:41pm On Nov 26, 2005
Sorry, goodguy, but this is pathethic self-serving teleological circular reasoning. It explains nothing and only puts any belief beyond questioning.

Only belief will make you understand the word of God? This means that in each and every instance where something nonsensical or contradictory in the Bible is met, only the believers can even discuss it.

I rather rely on logic, history and evidence to find truth than on a self-defined, self-reliant and unquestionable revelation that only considers itself authoritarian.
Re: The Mormon Religion by elbaron(m): 9:50pm On Nov 26, 2005
@ Nferyn, this is exactly my point and what I have been trying to explain in another thread: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-3284.0.html. Someone actually told me that I see the mentioned descrepancies as contradiction because God has confounded me for my unbelieve. Can you imagine?
Re: The Mormon Religion by goodguy(m): 10:01pm On Nov 26, 2005
@Elbaron, Do you believe in God? rolleyes

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