bigfrancis21:



My question specifically is, is Okoli a name borne by Arochukwu people today?

Don't get me wrong or think I'm having underlying assumptions. I'm just curious because the moment I saw the name, it was striking to me.

Odumchi may be in a better position to answer this. But based on what I know 'Okoli' is not an Arochukwu name. 'Okorie' is. In some Aro history monographs that I've read, Okoli Ijoma's name is even rendered as Okoro Ijoma.

bigfrancis21:


So in essence you're saying Okoli Ijeoma had already been naturalized in Anambra (as his name tells) but might have still maintained contacts with his Aro brothers down south to be able to mediate between Nri and Aro raiders?

'Naturalized in Anambra'? He was born there. He was born in Ndikelionwu. It's not like he migrated and settled there. He was a third-generation Northern-Axis Aro man.

Trying to give a full answer to this question will involve going into complicated details about Aro Diasporic history. I'll try to give an answer without going into all that kind of detail.

I didn't say he mediated between Nri and Aro raiders down south. (The Aro were not raiders, in any case). He himself was hiring raiders directly from Abam/Okafia region and sending them to attack towns in the Nri-Awka area. In fact, at a point, some towns around Isu-Aniocha area were sending him tribute to avoid being raided. Some Nri ritual agents were sent to him (at Ndikelionwu) by the Eze Nri to plead with him to stop the raids, and he declined.

In his relations with Nri, he wasn't acting as an intermediary between Nri and the Aro farther south as your question seems to imply. It was purely an Nri-Ndikelionwu, or Nri-Ndieni thing. (Ndi-Eni is the common name for the Aro colonies in the Orumba zone of Anambra).

bigfrancis21:


It might be interesting to add that Oti is not common only to Arochukwu. During my stay in Nsukka, I met Nsukka natives who bore 'Oti' as surname of which one of them was my lecturer in 3rd year. See his profile below:

http://www.unn.edu.ng/profile/engr-se-oti


.

Names that are predominantly associated with a particular region do also pop up here and there outside the region they are associated with. I have encountered Oputa in Nnewi, and Ossai in Enugu-Ezike and (in what seems to be one isolated incidence) Awka, even though these names are typical of Ukwuani people more than any other group. In, at least, the case of Awka and Nnewi, this can be explained by contact between the peoples.

The Aro were active in Nsukka, and there were Nsukka traders who (in the past) were trading partners with the Aro. Name-borrowing could have formed part of the kind of relationship they had.

I'll still say that Oti is a name one would closely associate with the Aro people.

Radoillo:



Names that are predominantly associated with a particular region do also pop up here and there outside the region they are associated with. I have encountered Oputa in Nnewi, and Ossai in Enugu-Ezike and (in what seems to be one isolated incidence) Awka, even though these names are typical of Ukwuani people more than any other group. In, at least, the case of Awka and Nnewi, this can be explained by contact between the peoples.

The Aro were active in Nsukka, and there were Nsukka traders who (in the past) were trading partners with the Aro. Name-borrowing could have formed part of the kind of relationship they had.

I'll still say that Oti is a name one would closely associate with the Aro people.

Yes Oti is more or less Crossriver Igbo name found in Abia State or Ebonyi and not specifically Aro. All the names you mentioned as Ukwuani are common Oguta names as well. I think it is borne by Igbos with Benin link just like Oti is borne by Igbos with Crossriver links.

bigfrancis21:


It might be interesting to add that Oti is not common only to Arochukwu. During my stay in Nsukka, I met Nsukka natives who bore 'Oti' as surname of which one of them was my lecturer in 3rd year. See his profile below:

http://www.unn.edu.ng/profile/engr-se-oti

Interestingly, Nsukka people believe they are from Nshi(Nri), with inputs here and there from Igala and Idoma.

My maternal cousins from Enugu have their surname as 'Okoli', and it is quite a popular one in Enugu.

The creation of Abia state has been interesting in that it initially contained Afikpo (one of the 4 areas that make up the acronym - Abia ie Aba, Bende, Isiukwuato and Afikpo) a NI area and surrounding villages and much later during the creation of Ebonyi state in 1996, Afikpo was shifted to this newly created state. Abia state today isn't homogeneous linguistically as several unrelated dialects exist in that state(from NI and SI alike). It is not surprising if some people bear Okoli are from that state (my guess would be they are from those areas up north close to Ebonyi state which were not moved to Ebonyi state). Another reason Aba, originally Ngwaland, is the melting pot of many people and dialects today. My question specifically is, is Okoli a name borne by Arochukwu people today?

Don't get me wrong or think I'm having underlying assumptions. I'm just curious because the moment I saw the name, it was striking to me.

Hey.... you getting it wrong with afikpo, don't categorize them with them abakiliki/ wawa people. Afikpo is like a compilation of ohafia, edda and the rest. Most people around that area use 'h' in place of 'f'

Abagworo:


Yes Oti is more or less Crossriver Igbo name found in Abia State or Ebonyi and not specifically Aro. All the names you mentioned as Ukwuani are common Oguta names as well. I think it is borne by Igbos with Benin link just like Oti is borne by Igbos with Crossriver links.

Whenever I say 'Ukwuani' I always also have Ugwuta and Ndoni in mind. As far as I'm concerned, they are more or less Ukwuani communities on the other side of the Niger.

bigfrancis21:


It might be interesting to add that Oti is not common only to Arochukwu. During my stay in Nsukka, I met Nsukka natives who bore 'Oti' as surname of which one of them was my lecturer in 3rd year. See his profile below:

http://www.unn.edu.ng/profile/engr-se-oti

Interestingly, Nsukka people believe they are from Nshi(Nri), with inputs here and there from Igala and Idoma.

My maternal cousins from Enugu have their surname as 'Okoli', and it is quite a popular one in Enugu.

The creation of Abia state has been interesting in that it initially contained Afikpo (one of the 4 areas that make up the acronym - Abia ie Aba, Bende, Isiukwuato and Afikpo) a NI area and surrounding villages and much later during the creation of Ebonyi state in 1996, Afikpo was shifted to this newly created state. Abia state today isn't homogeneous linguistically as several unrelated dialects exist in that state(from NI and SI alike). It is not surprising if some people bear Okoli are from that state (my guess would be they are from those areas up north close to Ebonyi state which were not moved to Ebonyi state). Another reason Aba, originally Ngwaland, is the melting pot of many people and dialects today. My question specifically is, is Okoli a name borne by Arochukwu people today?

Don't get me wrong or think I'm having underlying assumptions. I'm just curious because the moment I saw the name, it was striking to me.

Hey..... you're getting it wrong about afikpo. Afikpo is like a compilation of ohafia, edda and the rest. Stop categorizing afikpo with them abakiliki/ wawa. Most people around that area make use of 'h' in place of 'f'.

Danrizzle:
Hey..... you're getting it wrong about afikpo. Afikpo is like a compilation of ohafia, edda and the rest. Stop categorizing afikpo with them abakiliki/ wawa. Most people around that area make use of 'h' in place of 'f'.

Afikpo speaks Ehugbo. The language is closely related to all the Crossriver Igbo languages like Abiriba, Aro, Ohafia, Nkporo etc. and is generally difficult for Northern Igbos from Enugu/Anambra area to comprehend. However it is related to Owerri dialect or even Rivers.

Here is an excerpt from slightly diluted Ehugbo dialect and judge where it leans. I sincerely think its more like modified mix of Owerri, Ikwerre and Ika.

"o gini mediri umu nwanyi ehugbo aatogu uhu n'emeri umu nwoke ehugbo shakara Taa emeduzuenwe n'waa aja daari nde mba n'ali jugujugu n'egwukozuwori wayo."

Abagworo:


Afikpo speaks Ehugbo. The language is closely related to all the Crossriver Igbo languages like Abiriba, Aro, Ohafia, Nkporo etc. and is generally difficult for Northern Igbos from Enugu/Anambra area to comprehend. However it is related to Owerri dialect or even Rivers.

Here is an excerpt from slightly diluted Ehugbo dialect and judge where it leans. I sincerely think its more like modified mix of Owerri, Ikwerre and Ika.
"

Cross riverian igbo language is not similar or related to Owerri dialect. I believe it stands on its' own.

bigfrancis21:

My question specifically is, is Okoli a name borne by Arochukwu people today?

Radoillo:

Odumchi may be in a better position to answer this. But based on what I know 'Okoli' is not an Arochukwu name. 'Okorie' is. In some Aro history monographs that I've read, Okoli Ijoma's name is even rendered as Okoro Ijoma.

Both 'Okoli' and 'Okorie' are foreign to the Aro of Arochukwu. The home-based Aro answer 'Okoro', which is the name of a male born on Orie market day. Mind you, this 'Òkóòrò' (male born on Orie day) is pronounced differently from the 'Òkóró' ('young man') that other Igbo peoples answer. The 'northernization' of this name would be 'Okoli', hence why Okoro Ijoma is known as Okoli Ijoma amongst the 'l'-speaking peoples of the Nri-Awka axis.

Danrizzle:
Hey..... you're getting it wrong about afikpo. Afikpo is like a compilation of ohafia, edda and the rest. Stop categorizing afikpo with them abakiliki/ wawa. Most people around that area make use of 'h' in place of 'f'.

You're right. The dialects of the Cross River area are on their own 'branch' of the Igbo language tree, and are not to be grouped with northern dialects. However, if there were to be a comparison, they would lean towards southern Igbo as opposed to northern Igbo, not necessarily on the basis of a preference of 'h' over 'f' (because there are dialects in Abia that use 'f' instead of 'h' [ex: Ohafia; ife (thing), ifere (shame), ifu (to see)], but on the common preference of 'r' over 'l' and many other factors.

[quote author=odumchi post=27472964]

odumchi:



You're right. The dialects of the Cross River area are on their own 'branch' of the Igbo language tree, and are not to be grouped with northern dialects. However, if there were to be a comparison, they would lean towards southern Igbo as opposed to northern Igbo, not necessarily on the basis of a preference of 'h' over 'f' (because there are dialects in Abia that use 'f' instead of 'h' [ex: Ohafia; ife (thing), ifere (shame), ifu (to see)], but on the common preference of 'r' over 'l' and many other factors.

Yeah, CR lgbo dialect sounds exotic to the average Owerri man.
E.g Afikpo dialect - Nde Nwonmi unu kaa,olu ayi dikwele uto.

odumchi:



Both 'Okoli' and 'Okorie' are foreign to the Aro of Arochukwu. The home-based Aro answer 'Okoro', which is the name of a male born on Orie market day. Mind you, this 'Òkóòrò' (male born on Orie day) is pronounced differently from the 'Òkóró' ('young man') that other Igbo peoples answer. The 'northernization' of this name would be 'Okoli', hence why Okoro Ijoma is known as Okoli Ijoma amongst the 'l'-speaking peoples of the Nri-Awka axis.

.

I always wondered why some of the books 'translated' 'Okoli Ijoma' as 'Okoro Ijoma' instead of 'Okorie Ijoma'. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

So, what we've basically learned today is that none of the Aro (neither in Arochukwu nor in diaspora) recognized Nri at any time in their history. I just hope some people are taking notes here.

I think we all knew that from the onset. Including Odenigbo himself. I still refuse to think he wasn't kidding all along.

I'd hope so, because otherwise, I'd be tempted to approach this based of my interaction with other Igbo here on NL over the years.

interesting thread.

Ihuomadinihu:

Cross riverian igbo language is not similar or related to Owerri dialect. I believe it stands on its' own.

I wrote a mix of Owerri, Ikwerre and Ika.

Example the use of

1)Ali for Ala/Ana is also found in Ikwerre

2) The use of Mini for Miri is also found in Ikwerre

3) The use of "mi" for "mu" is also an Ikwerre thing

4) The use of enya for anya and eka for aka sounds like Ogba dialect of Rivers.

This is Ehugbo

"Saa enya na mini soro wo"

When I hear people speak Ehugbo, it usually sounds like a mix of several down South Igbo dialects because I'm very conversant with them.

Abagworo:


I wrote a mix of Owerri, Ikwerre and Ika.

Example the use of

1)Ali for Ala/Ana is also found in Ikwerre

2) The use of Mini for Miri is also found in Ikwerre

3) The use of "mi" for "mu" is also an Ikwerre thing

4) The use of enya for anya and eka for aka sounds like Ogba dialect of Rivers.

This is Ehugbo

"Saa enya na mini soro wo"

When I hear people speak Ehugbo, it usually sounds like a mix of several down South Igbo dialects because I'm very conversant with them.

You also find ali, enya, eka, etc in the North [Nsukka zone], and the North-East [Ezza-Izi-Ikwo zone]. I'll check again, but I think mini also occurs in the North-East, too.

These are 'Peripheral Igbo' usages. Not in any way peculiarities of the Ikwerre, Owerri and the Ika, or of dialects of the south.

Abagworo:


I wrote a mix of Owerri, Ikwerre and Ika.

Example the use of

1)Ali for Ala/Ana is also found in Ikwerre

2) The use of Mini for Miri is also found in Ikwerre

3) The use of "mi" for "mu" is also an Ikwerre thing

4) The use of enya for anya and eka for aka sounds like Ogba dialect of Rivers.

This is Ehugbo

"Saa enya na mini soro wo"

When I hear people speak Ehugbo, it usually sounds like a mix of several down South Igbo dialects because I'm very conversant with them.

Alright. It doesn't sound that way to me though. I will just leave it as a Southern igbo dialect(regionally), but strictly a part of the CR dialect cluster.

Radoillo:


You also find ali, enya, eka, etc in the North [Nsukka zone], and the North-East [Ezza-Izi-Ikwo zone]. I'll check again, but I think mini also occurs in the North-East, too.

These are 'Peripheral Igbo' usages. Not in any way peculiarities of the Ikwerre, Owerri and the Ika, or of dialects of the south.

You're right and that is why it is likely the earliest form of Igbo is preserved in the Afikpo area. I've always wondered why Afikpo at the extreme end will have similarities with Ikwerre at another extreme and Ika at another extreme.. If Nsukka at another extreme has same similarites then I will have to believe that earlier versions of Igbo language is preserved at the periphery contrary to most beliefs that the centre is core.

Abagworo:


You're right and that is why it is likely the earliest form of Igbo is preserved in the Afikpo area. I've always wondered why Afikpo at the extreme end will have similarities with Ikwerre at another extreme and Ika at another extreme.. If Nsukka at another extreme has same similarites then I will have to believe that earlier versions of Igbo language is preserved at the periphery contrary to most beliefs that the centre is core.

I hold a similar belief about the dialects spoken on the Igbo periphery. I expressed that on one of the threads here recently.

Radoillo:


I always wondered why some of the books 'translated' 'Okoli Ijoma' as 'Okoro Ijoma' instead of 'Okorie Ijoma'. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Wa ntakala hwe ta o bu! (No problem!)

odumchi:


Wa ntakala hwe ta o bu! (No problem!)

Nwa ntakari ihe ka o bu?

Ihuomadinihu:

Nwa ntakari ihe ka o bu?

O nnaa. (Yup!)

Ide nnaa, always ruffling these people's feathers, haha! See as nwa ngwa,nwa Awka and nwa aro carry pestles on top of Nri mata! *grins*

Radoillo:


'Naturalized in Anambra'? He was born there. He was born in Ndikelionwu. It's not like he migrated and settled there. He was a third-generation Northern-Axis Aro man.

Trying to give a full answer to this question will involve going into complicated details about Aro Diasporic history. I'll try to give an answer without going into all that kind of detail.

I didn't say he mediated between Nri and Aro raiders down south. (The Aro were not raiders, in any case). He himself was hiring raiders directly from Abam/Okafia region and sending them to attack towns in the Nri-Awka area. In fact, at a point, some towns around Isu-Aniocha area were sending him tribute to avoid being raided. Some Nri ritual agents were sent to him (at Ndikelionwu) by the Eze Nri to plead with him to stop the raids, and he declined.

In his relations with Nri, he wasn't acting as an intermediary between Nri and the Aro farther south as your question seems to imply. It was purely an Nri-Ndikelionwu, or Nri-Ndieni thing. (Ndi-Eni is the common name for the Aro colonies in the Orumba zone of Anambra).

I'd attribute the complacency of the Nri people and placating of Okoli Ijoma by the same Nri people and axis to being peaceful in nature so as to avoid violence, wars etc.

Danrizzle:
Hey.... you getting it wrong with afikpo, don't categorize them with them abakiliki/ wawa people. Afikpo is like a compilation of ohafia, edda and the rest. Most people around that area use 'h' in place of 'f'

I don't think I ever categorized them with Abakaliki people nor insinuated such in my post. I was reeling off history of the unique movement of Afikpo(NI) into Abia state(SI) initially and back into NI(Ebonyi state). My aim of the recall was to demonstrate the heterogenity of the dialects of Abia state (NI and SI alike) and why it might explain, in part, the reason for Okoli names in Abia state. I'd suggest that you read my post again.

bigfrancis21:


I'd attribute the complacency of the Nri people and placating of Okoli Ijoma by the same Nri people and axis to being peaceful in nature so as to avoid violence, wars etc.

Well, that can't be argued. The Nri were not a militarized people. The whole point of bringing up the Okoli Ijoma story was to explain to Odenigbo that at no point did the Aro, both Aro Uno and Aro Ezi (as we call them) acknowledge Nri's leadership, whether in a spiritual sense or in a political sense.

Radoillo:
I think we all knew that from the onset. Including Odenigbo himself. I still refuse to think he wasn't kidding all along.

So,you actually believe yourself?
I dont understand why people need to lie to themselves....Aro,Onitsha and many major town brought gift to greet the Eze Nri during coronation. Eze Nri Obalike revealed this himself.

In the book,Religion,dreaming and society in Africa by M. M Charles Jedrej and Rosalind Shaw it revealed how these major towns brought gifts to Agukwu.

pazienza:
Ide nnaa, always ruffling these people's feathers, haha! See as nwa ngwa,nwa Awka and nwa aro carry pestles on top of Nri mata! *grins*

Alangwa and Awka boy must pay homage to Nri decendants,or Udo will keep haunting them...lol