To start with, the topic should say "Some Men", not just "Men". Some of us don't think that women are naturally subordinate.

Again, I think some women make themselves inferior. You are inferior only when you see yourself as it. Can what someone thinks of you change who you are? Hardly.

Michelin, I think you're just generalizing. And wrongly so.

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Hence I don't even bother to argue with a guy who tries to "help" me to regain my roots because he and I know he is doing it so he can maintain his status

What makes you think african women hate their culture. I love my culture, and would defend it from the westerners. I have never seen a culture that values women more. What we think may be right for us may not be so.
The american women wanted their liberation and in with that came deadbeat dads and STDs off the ying yang. Stay there thinking that american women or westerners have it better. There is a reason their women are fighting us for our men.

Michelin still has a lot of growing up to do so i'm not overly bothered about the thread.

tpia:


its a myth, you say?

Like I pointed out on the masquerade thread, there are many parts of Nigeria where masquerades openly set out to terrorize women and children. And yes, its part and parcel of our culture.

Women and children in the vicinity are expressly threatened with flogging, chased till they find shelter somewhere, and harassed in various ways by men/boys dressed up as masquerades. Some women are threatened with dire punishments if they confront one or learn any of the 'secrets" of the cult.

can you explain how this mentality doesnt become engrained in the minds of most Naija males especially when it comes to gender relations? And how such a culture of flogging women doesnt favor men?

i am sure these  masquerades drove our women to italy for ashewo work abi?

davidylan:

Michelin still has a lot of growing up to do so i'm not overly bothered about the thread.

you can say that again

davidylan:

Michelin still has a lot of growing up to do so i'm not overly bothered about the thread.

Oh please help me in my growth.

What's so special about this culture anyways that you would die for it?

i am sure these masquerades drove our women to italy for ashewo work abi?

Oh shut the Bleep up. Wetin concern this and the matter at hand?

you can say that again

Na una know. You never give up on this "growing up" card, right? When someone speaks, instead of you to object you rather say: oh she is still young. How sad!

michelin89:

Oh please help me in my growth.

What's so special about this culture anyways that you would die for it?


Oh shut the Bleep up. Wetin concern this and the matter at hand?

Na una know. You never give up on this "growing up" card, right? When someone speaks, instead of you to object you rather say: oh she is still young. How sad!

Wetin concern this and the matter at hand?

cant you work out how oppressed / repressed women managed to become millionaire hookers. tot you were old enough to know all things

michelin89:

Oh please help me in my growth.

What's so special about this culture anyways that you would die for it?

I've been trying to help but you wont let me.  

My culture is special to be because it is an inalienable part of my identity. There is this unfortunate idea gaining ground here (which is why if anyone notices majority of the popular posters on this forum dont live in Nigeria) that our local culture is one to be ashamed of, that foreign culture is more "civilized" and thus the thing to be emulated if you are to show everyone else that you have "arrived".

What's so "nice" about European culture that you think is good for you? The large number of single parents, skyrocketing divorce rates e.t.c. are indicators that the foreign culture isnt any better than ours anyway.

Yes our culture is built around respect and courtesy . . . so what?

Like I pointed out on the masquerade thread, there are many parts of Nigeria where masquerades openly set out to terrorize women and children. And yes, its part and parcel of our culture.

Women and children in the vicinity are expressly threatened with flogging, chased till they find shelter somewhere, and harassed in various ways by men/boys dressed up as masquerades. Some women are threatened with dire punishments if they confront one or learn any of the 'secrets" of the cult.

can you explain how this mentality doesnt become engrained in the minds of most Naija males especially when it comes to gender relations? And how such a culture of flogging women doesnt favor men?

My argument borders on economic independence not on masquerades. I don’t know about you, it is ludicrous to think the mentality of most Naija males is formed by the idea of seeing a menacing masquerade in your town. How about Nigerians raised in urban areas most of whom did not have anything in common with these menacing masquerades? I am of the opinion that we should balance this. Do not put so many financial burdens on the men  in order to run the family. Marriage should de-emphasize man as a sole provider and define it as a family of equal providers not in principle.
A lot thing about African culture in the context of role of women and men would need to be carefully redefined in order to fit into modern ways of doing things.

I am yet to see anyone tackle the issue of letting the man pay for everything which makes some men to think that they should have a lot of control. I think pitching in makes a woman assert more independence.

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tpia:

my point here is the culture.

A culture that tolerates and even encourages violence in this manner, towards women.

The subjugation of women is a bedrock of many societies including Nigeria and this attitude shows itself in various ways, not only at masquerade time.

Where do these folks come up with such inane ideas?

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tpia:

from personal interaction with fellow Nigerians maybe?

Not to mention seeing plenty of masquerades at some time or the other?

What about the millions of folks like me who werent priviledged to see masquerades flogging women?

Its absurd that you make sweeping generalisations about a culture based on masquerades . . .

@tpia:Remember these women weren't forced into into prostitution,they felt it was the best way out of poverty.

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tpia:

And I didnt see masquerades flogging women (though I heard of some instances). But the message is very clear when they carry whips. I know a couple of people who were so incensed by the harassment that they had to unmask one or two masquerades. Or at least threaten them with unmasking. I also know someone who fell sick as a result of being flogged by a masquerade, decades ago before independence even. Just an example.

and this isolated examples define a culture?

tpia:

And yes, the culture is heavily paternalistic. Deny it all you want- its a fact and it can be a postive or a negative depending on what someone experienced in it. Everyone didnt experience the culture in the same way.

The masquerade example is simply to show the culture is a male dominated one. Unless you feel masquerades arent part of our culture?

The US is also a male dominated culture but with no masquerades . . .

1. What is wrong with a male-dominated culture?

2. What have masquerades got to do with it?

tpia:

based on what the pimps told them.

And sometimes they were lied to about the kind of work they'd be doing in Italy.

[color=#000099][/color]

Most of them,knew what they were getting into,and lots of them were prostitutes already,so they mind doing it on the international level.

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bottomline tpia, you really have no clue what you're talking about.

tpia:

Culture is made up of many different pieces that all fit together to make up the whole picture. Masquerades are one of the pieces.

Pretty silly to be honest . . . this masquerade example.

tpia:

Women have the same feelings as men, so receiving the short end of the stick in the name of culture, isnt always an option. When you hit pinch a woman, does she not hurt?

Who are you blaming here? Males, the culture or feelings?

How do females recieve the short end of the stick in Nigeria?

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How do females recieve the short end of the stick in Nigeria?

Ok claiming now that there is no such thing as gender inequality in Nigeria is playing dumb and doesn't fit someone of your status David. So cut it and discuss reality objectively. Denying what is real is not what makes a debate but rather finding solid reasons to justify it and also ascertain its right to be so. That's what I call a debate.

May the show begin. *pop corn please!*

michelin89:

Ok claiming now that there is no such thing as gender inequality in Nigeria is playing dumb and doesn't fit someone of your status David.

me sef Im flabbergasted by the statement

michelin89:

Ok claiming now that there is no such thing as gender inequality in Nigeria is playing dumb and doesn't fit someone of your status David. So cut it and discuss reality objectively. Denying what is real is not what makes a debate but rather finding solid reasons to justify it and also ascertain its right to be so. That's what I call a debate.

May the show begin. *pop corn please!*

I have not said there is no such thing as gender inequality in nigeria. What i have said is that it is not specific to Nigerian culture alone.
Do you claim then that there is nothing like gender inequality in Italy?
Even here in the US, the buzzword during the campaign was "sexism".

There is gender inequality everywhere . . .

davidylan:

There is gender inequality everywhere . . .

True but unlike Naija if proven, it can get you into serious trouble

Take the whole bosses firing female employees for not sleeping with them. In Naija, it's whatever. Here, it's a huge lawsuit

KarmaMod:

True but unlike Naija if proven, it can get you into serious trouble

Take the whole bosses firing female employees for not sleeping with them. In Naija, it's whatever. Here, it's a huge lawsuit

That is a failure of the justice system not a problem with culture.
Just like corruption here will land Blagojevich in prison but move Achike Udenwa to the post of minister . . . we have plenty of laws but no one enforces them. Shld we always blame culture?

there are few topics that get me to post on nairaland and this is one of them.

It is inarguable that there is gender inequality in most parts of the world and it's manifested in different ways, the wage gap in Western cultures, female genital mutilation in lovely Africa, forced marriages and trafficking, some lovely chauvinist pigs here on nairaland .

OK you've got it, women get shafted all over the world. So why is it such a big deal if women are saying. Enough with this nonsense, women are essential part of the homo sapiens species, stop treating us like crap and take us seriously

p.s if anyone goes on about how women don't pay during dates and the like, SHUT IT. From my experience, just this past weekend I went to drinks and a movie with a guy and he paid for the drinks, I paid for the movie and it was not a big deal.

OK i should be working but I'm bored, so fire away

Um. it's the annoying complacency of people like davidylan that will keep us in the dark ages.

Someone I know was being beaten by her husband like a dog. She went to the police to complain and the police man said and I quote

"Go back to your husband you useless woman. Wetin, you no fit cook soup"

beebop:

Um. it's the annoying complacency of people like davidylan that will keep us in the dark ages.

Someone I know was being beaten by her husband like a dog. She went to the police to complain and the police man said and I quote

"Go back to your husband you useless woman. Wetin, you no fit cook soup"

Na me beat the woman?

I'm willing to stay at home, prepare food for my wife, raise our kids and always look good for my wife. As long as I can spend 1/3 of the money she makes shopping and buying stuff to make me look good. I also only need 2 vacations anywhere in the world every year alone. Any fine and strong wife out there for me?