I have seen men fervently defending our "lovely" culture against the influence of westerners. I always wondered where this passion of theirs originated from, then one day I woke up from a disillusioned dream. These guys were fighting the culture because it's the most beautiful in the world but merely because it was all at their own advantage. And I said ohhhh!

Hence I don't even bother to argue with a guy who tries to "help" me to regain my roots because he and I know he is doing it so he can maintain his status.

Therefore I want to invite all the ladies to do the same. If they see say nobody dey mind their yarn they'll get tired besides, who likes to yarn in vain?

You're not making your post clear.

You find them suspicious because they're defending their culture. . . .why is that?
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, am just trying to see if your idea agrees with mines.

Maintain what status? As the head of the house? superiority to women?

.

it is common among even the educated ones too. a friend once told me of how in her neighborhood she heard a naija guy called his wife ashewo. the neighbors heard it too. imagine your own wife for that matter, the mother of your 3 kids you abused her in public or to public hearing. what do you expect the public to do?

true, they like that keep quiet of ladies back home. who is she to talk back to him? he is her godfather.

osisi*:

are you trying to tell us why a Nigerian man would open the mouth he uses to eat yam and cocoyam and call his wife and mother of his children ewu in public, punch her in the face and even threaten her with marrying a new wife if she doesn't behave and society expects her to stay on and endure it.
I'm not saying all but these things are  common especially amongst illiterates

A few questions. . .
1) Is this behavior shared by all the ethnic groups?
2) Is this behavior mutually exclusive of certain ethnic groups?
3) Do, at least, the majority people that claim culture participate in this extreme behavior?
4) Is this extreme behavior common and a norm?

Now to respond, I do not know why a Nigerian man would raise his hand like that, or speak to his family in such a way. I cannot answer that, because I come from a completely different family than that. I can safely say that our family is very traditional. We are traditionally modern. We do modern things, but how we run and govern our family is still traditional (in terms of greetings, in terms of respect, in terms of acknowledgement of elders, and all other things associated with family management). My uncle that lives here in the US. (only a few minutes away) is the same way in his family. My uncles and aunts that live in Naija, it is the same way with them. My father would flog us whenever we didn't do something correct and we knew we did not do something  correct. My father would also talk and reason with us when we did things wrongly. Same with my mother. Yet, through all that traditional culture, my father has, not once, lifted his hand against my mother. My father has, not once, yelled at my mothers. If anything, my mother is the one that has yelled, but no one has hit the other. So I cannot give you any reason, or justification as to why they do what they do. Maybe my family is strange and on the other extreme end. Maybe I'm just fortunate to live in a household where things like that are not the norm. Yet, we still function as a traditional, cultural family unit.

tpia:

actually, the Romans did withdraw suddenly from parts of Europe. Great Britain in particular.

Really? Maybe I don't remember my history courses well enough. I'll have to go back and reread.

.

I agree with what the OP is implying.

If a culture favors your kind, wouldn't you want to fight to keep the power structure as is? As much as most African men may not like to admit this, the OP is right. I'd say the same would occur if women were in charge. No gender bias.

The dangers manifest when the strong take advantage of the weak. Typical of patriarchal societies are bullying, beatings, chauvinism. Hey, we may not like to admit it but it is true. Back home, a majority of Nigerian men abuse the power they wield (yep, you heard me right).

really though the title states africa, not sure why dudes are screaming about Naija "does it only happen in Naija" well seeng that the thread title specifically states AFRICAN then no it's not just Naija. Infact it's not just Africa so quit getting defensive/\

I'm sure people like their cultures for various reasons. The most obvious one is that the culture is "theirs." duh! why won't you like your own culture? it's part of your identity. I do agree though that our cultures are chauvinistic and most African men LOVE that aspect of it because it favors them.

for proove, go to any thread with sexist topics ex. King of Swaziland and the Reed dance. Most of the men support the exploitation of the young girls paraded naked in front of the old king and call it part of "tradition." ie we should embrace our sexist culture as opposed to western less sexist cultures.
sexuality board has some similar topics as well (virginity, gender roles in marriage etc).

Every African men should like there culture because it is by culture we no who you are and where you came from, so i can see the reason while Africans should not like there cultures, African culture is the best.

The OP's view is true only for a fraction of African men, however, her broad generalization, which implies that African men love African culture because it favors them, extinguishes whatever truth the statement was trying to echo. In summary, the statement is false and holds no truth because it is just too broad.

African culture has several components and the different subcultures (by region, ethnic group, nationality, etc.) within what we refer to as African culture put different emphasis on these components:
1. Seniority (wisdom, authority)
2. Communal life (emphasis on being your brother's keeper)
3. Oral traditions (the main conduit of cultural continuity)
4. Family (basic unit of society)
5. Respect for elders (even if the elder has no formal authority)
6. Moral code of conduct (e.g., Omenala in Igbo, the concept of "abomination", etc.)
7. Respect and acknowledgment of the dead (reverence for ancestors)
8. Spirituality (belief in the after life, the supernatural, etc.)
9. God (central to all African subcultures)
10. Patriarchy ("the structuring of society on the basis of family units, where fathers have primary responsibility for the welfare of, and authority over, their families" --Wiki)

Of the ten components of African culture listed above, the OP reasoned that African men that like African culture, only like it for one reason - the patriarchal nature of the culture.

To further stress the absurdity of the OP's assertion, let's focus for a moment on the major monotheistic religions: Christianity, Islam and Judaism. These religions, like African culture, all have patriarchy as a major component. Based on the OP's reasoning, any man who loves his religion, only loves it because of the patriarchal nature of the religion.

Logically, the fundamental flaw in this type of reasoning is the assertion of causality - the patriarchal nature of African culture (cause) is the reason African men love African culture (effect). Correlation, a cousin to causality, is easier to establish, however, not even a high correlation is sufficient to establish causality. Causality has to be established either by construction or by a formal/scientific experimental study.

Me I will not speak about Africans but rather Nigerians. We are the greatest hypocrites in the world

We speak about protectin our women but would rather fornicate and impregnate our neighbours daughter or housemaid.
We speak about political reform but continuous praise worship our leaders (political and spiritual ) without any form of accountability for their actions ala third term.
We sspeak against 'western' corrupt acts such as lesbianism, homo acts and etc but we have them here albeit hidden in private
We rail our hands against women who are abused by their husbands and say 'barren'women deserve being sent off for being barren or could not giuve their husbands sons

The reality is that comparing us to asians is Arrow as our women are not better off
There are still women who enter disputes with inlaws on possessions of their husbands and even end up dispossessed and the children abandoned

so david do not pretend not to understand the points being raised or say it is due to a justice system
or why will there still be killings with impunity still being carried out in parts of the country,

Sage, not to be rude, but you couldn't be more wrong. The only reason why Africa is in the shape that it is in is because of European Imperialism and Colonization.

chinenye the whites may have bastardised africa but what we have done to ourselves is still no excuse.
our leaders pander to western influence who, facing facts are only interested in raping us further and selling arms to us
we are the architects of our misfortune.

Michelin,but u know now , . . .

RichyBlacK:

The OP's view is true only for a fraction of African men, however, her broad generalization, which implies that African men love African culture because it favors them, extinguishes whatever truth the statement was trying to echo. In summary, the statement is false and holds no truth because it is just too broad.

African culture has several components and the different subcultures (by region, ethnic group, nationality, etc.) within what we refer to as African culture put different emphasis on these components:
1. Seniority (wisdom, authority)
2. Communal life (emphasis on being your brother's keeper)
3. Oral traditions (the main conduit of cultural continuity)
4. Family (basic unit of society)
5. Respect for elders (even if the elder has no formal authority)
6. Moral code of conduct (e.g., Omenala in Igbo, the concept of "abomination", etc.)
7. Respect and acknowledgment of the dead (reverence for ancestors)
8. Spirituality (belief in the after life, the supernatural, etc.)
9. God (central to all African subcultures)
10. Patriarchy ("the structuring of society on the basis of family units, where fathers have primary responsibility for the welfare of, and authority over, their families" --Wiki)

Of the ten components of African culture listed above, the OP reasoned that African men that like African culture, only like it for one reason - the patriarchal nature of the culture.

To further stress the absurdity of the OP's assertion, let's focus for a moment on the major monotheistic religions: Christianity, Islam and Judaism. These religions, like African culture, all have patriarchy as a major component. Based on the OP's reasoning, any man who loves his religion, only loves it because of the patriarchal nature of the religion.

Logically, the fundamental flaw in this type of reasoning is the assertion of causality - the patriarchal nature of African culture (cause) is the reason African men love African culture (effect). Correlation, a cousin to causality, is easier to establish, however, not even a high correlation is sufficient to establish causality. Causality has to be established either by construction or by a formal/scientific experimental study.

hmnn. . . . . . . you've succeeded in putting together, and in a fancy way, what the rational guys/ladies have been saying ever since. Nice one.

Richy is an elede that supports FGM so nothing he ever says in matters like this counts IMO

biolabee:

Me I will not speak about Africans but rather Nigerians. We are the greatest hypocrites in the world

We speak about protectin our women but would rather fornicate and impregnate our neighbours daughter or housemaid.
We speak about political reform but continuous praise worship our leaders (political and spiritual ) without any form of accountability for their actions ala third term.
We sspeak against 'western' corrupt acts such as lesbianism, homo acts and etc but we have them here albeit hidden in private
We rail our hands against women who are abused by their husbands and say 'barren'women deserve being sent off for being barren or could not giuve their husbands sons

The reality is that comparing us to asians is Arrow as our women are not better off
There are still women who enter disputes with inlaws on possessions of their husbands and even end up dispossessed and the children abandoned

so david do not pretend not to understand the points being raised or say it is due to a justice system
or why will there still be killings with impunity still being carried out in parts of the country,

there you go.

Men Don't Think African Culture Is The Best


They Like It Because It Favors Them
in which way?

I can't speak for all african/naija men, but I am certain there are loads of these men that do not fall under your some of your descriptions.
The westerners you so adore are really not different in their thinking, the only difference would be the presence of a viable justice system which make such sexist actions unlawful. Take away these laws, U'd be amazed at what these societies can do.

Nigerian men respect their women, _{at least some do, lol}

1. Seniority (wisdom, authority)

If I don't err, the elders of a community are always men and you'll never see a woman sitting in their midst. How come?

2. Communal life (emphasis on being your brother's keeper)

It's a pity though that in some cultures when property are to be shared, the male are always the first to remind their sisters that women don't get inheritance. And it's marrying your deceased brother's wife also a form on upkeep?

3. Oral traditions (the main conduit of cultural continuity)

I guess it's time they started writing their down traditions. Why do you think constitution were made?

4. Family (basic unit of society)

Where the man is the head, the woman the neck and every responsibility concerning the success of that marriage depends on her.

5. Respect for elders (even if the elder has no formal authority)

This translates to elders abusing their authority, as usual.

6. Moral code of conduct (e.g., Omenala in Igbo, the concept of "abomination", etc.)

Of course. Unfortunately we are not considering the double standards.

7. Respect and acknowledgment of the dead (reverence for ancestors)

An excuse to rip people of their hard earned money over burials where people come to eat your food and maybe say "sorry" after they have finished.

8. Spirituality (belief in the after life, the supernatural, etc.)
9. God (central to all African subcultures)

In my opinion these are the evils of any society.

10. Patriarchy ("the structuring of society on the basis of family units, where fathers have primary responsibility for the welfare of, and authority over, their families" --Wiki)

No comment on this!

Tpia: There is still a difference between how Nigeria received it's independence and how Britain received it's independence. Britain fought for it, because they had been developed enough that they could be a sovereign nation. Nigeria on the other hand (as well as many other African countries, if I'm not mistaken) were handed their independence. Even when their independence was handed to them, they were not developed enough to be considered sovereign. Most were severely underdeveloped. Europe more or less abandoned African countries while they were still in development. It left things to run themselves. Which is exactly what led to small conflicts which then led to larger problems. A comparison cannot be made between Britain gaining its independence and Nigeria gaining its independence.

biolabee:

chinenye the whites may have bastardised africa but what we have done to ourselves is still no excuse.
our leaders pander to western influence who, facing facts are only interested in raping us further and selling arms to us
we are the architects of our misfortune.

Which is exactly what I said after making that comment. I also said I wasn't using it as an excuse. I also said that there is no excuse as to why people are corrupt the way they are. Here are some things I said that you may have missed:

How can you claim that the problem is culture in Nigeria. If anything, as stated before by me and Daviddylan, the problem is the corruption in government. Nigeria's inability to effectively manage itself as a country. People not following the laws, mandates, and codes set in place so that all can be safe. That is the problem. Culture or no culture, people will still do what they [feel] they must to survive. Culture or no culture, people will still do what they [feel] they must to maintain their status and power in a nation. Culture or no culture, prejudice, stereotypes, unacceptable behavior still exists. You cannot blame culture (that is misunderstood and misinterpreted) as the sole reason for why Nigeria (as well as Africa) is the way it is.

Until we start questioning the way our country is run/managed/governed, our misunderstanding, and the country's social ills, we will keep wallowing in darkness.

The problem is that Africa has  yet to get a hold of itself in terms of proper management, government, and other systems that run the countries. For that reason, Africa is the way it is. Culture has very little to do with it.

Maybe you might want to read through those, biolabee.

RichyBlack, thank you for that post.

You find them suspicious because they're defending their culture. . . .why is that?

More specifically on issues where suggestions about reviewing the roles of the sexes in a particular matter are generally unaccepted.

Maintain what status? As the head of the house? superiority to women?

Being head of the house, always getting the longer stick are all part of privileges granted to them solely for being men. Not because they have been proved to deserve that position. Of course it human to selfishly hold on to a position when it favors you even though clearly you are not fit for it.

And if people around me even encourage me, that's a plus.

Who wouldn't like to be president of a country where s/he recieves his salary every month and has people who do the job he was elected to do?

michelin89:

If I don't err, the elders of a community are always men and you'll never see a woman sitting in their midst. How come?

So you take this to mean that senior and elderly women were not respected for their wisdom and whatever authority they might have had in the household?

It's a pity though that in some cultures when property are to be shared, the male are always the first to remind their sisters that women don't get inheritance. And it's marrying your deceased brother's wife also a form on upkeep?

In traditional societies (that I know of), the woman is married into the man's house. As a result, the man and his family have a responsibility towards taking care of the woman. So if the man dies, it is understandable how and why his brother would take the woman into his household. Whereas for westerners, the woman will return to her family. Consider the ideologies.

Where the man is the head, the woman the neck and every responsibility concerning the success of that marriage depends on her.

From what I've heard, the man is the head and the woman is the backbone. Every married man that I know of makes that comment. "The man is the head, the woman is the backbone". Where did you get neck from? Maybe I live with and know people that are extremely different from what you're describing.

This translates to elders abusing their authority, as usual.

This abuse argument will not even fly. If you judge everything solely because it is/can be abused, then you might as well refrain from engaging in alot of the things you do in life, because virtually any and everything is subject to abuse.

[QUOTE]
Of course. Unfortunately we are not considering the double standards.[/quote]
I agree, to some extent there are double standards. Do you understand why though? It is because men and women are different and made differently. Consider what life was/could have been like in the past. There are double standards because men and women traditionally do not share the same roles. Would you blame an accountant for management's failures? No. Two different roles. Two standards for measurement and judgement.

An excuse to rip people of their hard earned money over burials where people come to eat your food and maybe say "sorry" after they have finished.

Again, another abuse argument. It will not fly. Do you understand the relevance of life in the past, as well as today? Did you even stop to consider why things were structured the way they were and the premises under which African societies structured their society? It seems as though you did not. You want to take the introduction of, as well as effects of capitalism and add it to the structure of most traditional life saying that they are part of each other. That doesn't work.

In my opinion these are the evils of any society.

Again, another abuse argument.

the OP and many of those posting in support have no idea what they are talking about. RichyBlack said it best - Of the ten components of African culture listed above, the OP reasoned that African men that like African culture, only like it for one reason - the patriarchal nature of the culture.

To further stress the absurdity of the OP's assertion, let's focus for a moment on the major monotheistic religions: Christianity, Islam and Judaism. These religions, like African culture, all have patriarchy as a major component. Based on the OP's reasoning, any man who loves his religion, only loves it because of the patriarchal nature of the religion.

Logically, the fundamental flaw in this type of reasoning is the assertion of causality - the patriarchal nature of African culture (cause) is the reason African men love African culture (effect). Correlation, a cousin to causality, is easier to establish, however, not even a high correlation is sufficient to establish causality. Causality has to be established either by construction or by a formal/scientific experimental study.

How about role reversal here? Ask a Nigerian woman that she will pay for a dinner and see if you can get a date. Let us look at African culturre with holistic mirrow. Would African women agree to pay for wedding 100%? Or no wedding at all?

davidylan:

the OP and many of those posting in support have no idea what they are talking about. RichyBlack said it best - Of the ten components of African culture listed above, the OP reasoned that African men that like African culture, only like it for one reason - the patriarchal nature of the culture.

To further stress the absurdity of the OP's assertion, let's focus for a moment on the major monotheistic religions: Christianity, Islam and Judaism. These religions, like African culture, all have patriarchy as a major component. Based on the OP's reasoning, any man who loves his religion, only loves it because of the patriarchal nature of the religion.

Logically, the fundamental flaw in this type of reasoning is the assertion of causality - the patriarchal nature of African culture (cause) is the reason African men love African culture (effect). Correlation, a cousin to causality, is easier to establish, however, not even a high correlation is sufficient to establish causality. Causality has to be established either by construction or by a formal/scientific experimental study.

Yeah yeah! Na una know pass, as usual. The more they try, the more they prove us right.

Isn't that fantastic?

michelin89:

Yeah yeah! Na una know pass, as usual. The more they try, the more they prove us right.

Isn't that fantastic?

I know, right? lol

Enuf said on this one. Time to move on to something else.

ono:

enough said on this one. Time to move on to something else.

abi o!!!

This thread is very true! Thats why many Nigerian men think that when they commit adultry it is "ok" bc  thats the african culture!! FUCKING BULLSHIT.
So on Saturday they are messing with a co-worker and on sunday they are catching the holy ghost.UNBELIEVABLE. You know what I feel very sorry for African women and middleeastern women especially, I really don't know how they endure the things they go through.

This is just an example o, I'm not saying our men should do the cooking,far from it.
.

Ok so ur saying women should KILL themselves cooking and cleaning and all that crap and still take care of kids and manage a caeer too right? what the mess is wrong with a man going into the kitchen and cooking instead of his wife? don't WIVES NEED BREAKS TOO? ARENT THEY FUCKING HUMAN BEINGS?U just pissed me off with that  comment. ur dismissed! keep cooking till ur hands fall off

ah here comes another mistaken individual:

Janeesa:

This thread is very true! Thats why many Nigerian men think that when they commit adultry it is "ok" bc thats the african culture!! FUCKING BULLSHIT.

I dont know which "Nigerian men" you are talking about . . . there is NOTHING in our culture that allows adultery . . . maybe your own village culture.

daviDslyn pr whatever the FUK they call u, who the Bleep are u kiddin?! if a women were to cheat on her man, the whole motherfuckin village must hear about it, infact call the chief and the freakin president, if a man did it, they are BEGGING THE WOMAN TO STAY in the marriage! so dont give me that BULLSHIT. keep that BULLSHIT TO UR SELF AND SWALLOW IT