WORLD BANK AND IMF WANTED US TO REMOVE
PETROLEUM SUBSIDY - MUHAMMADU BUHARI (Culled from
The Cable's Exclusive Interview) 25TH OCTOBER 2014

THE CABLE: A lot of people are saying the problems of Nigeria
are so many now, more than what you met in 1983 as military
head of state. If you were elected president, what would you
do differently from President Jonathan on power supply, for
instance? How can we tackle this problem?
BUHARI: It cannot be done overnight. The hearings conducted
by the National Assembly on NEPA or Power Holding
Company of Nigeria, of blessed memory, pension fund and
petroleum industry show the extreme mismanagement of what
Nigeria stands for… because if you remove petroleum
industry, if you remove the organisation of pension funds and
power, Nigeria will collapse. I refer you to my declaration that
in 1999 when the PDP came, power generation was hovering
between 3,000 and 4,000 megawatts. It is now hovering
between that number again after $20 billion had been spent.
This is what the hearings exposed. And nobody has been
punished. What happened to the $20 billion? What happened
to pension funds?
What happened to another $20 billion exposed by a former
governor of the Central Bank of Nigeria [Lamido Sanusi]? All
these things the PDP governments between 1999 and now
have not been able to explain to Nigerians. And the
remarkable thing about Nigeria is that: because having been
a minister, governor and head of state, you do not go to any
parastatal or any ministry without meeting financial
instructions and administrative instructions, but Nigerians
have the audacity at each level to cast that away and keep
doing what they like. And no one is being punished.......
THE CABLE: Would you like to dig up the report before we
move forward?
BUHARI: If you try to do that, the state will immediately
collapse because a lot of the institutions have been
compromised. With whom are you going to work? My own
belief now is that you just have to draw a line and move
forward. But since cases are in the court no matter what, you
have to allow the judiciary to do its job. We can hurry them
up a bit, but we must allow the judiciary because it is not a
profession you can take over their duties. It is the third arm of
government. We can come as the military as we did and
remove some parts of the constitution, but most of the
constitution have to remain and again it is the judiciary that
will have to interpret what remains.
But in a democratic setting, you cannot do what the National
Assembly and the Judiciary are empowered by law to do. It is
impossible. And look again, when our soldiers started giving
interviews to the foreign press that they were being sent to
the war front [against Boko Haram] with obsolete weapons,
the National Assembly attempted to call the service chiefs
and show them the budgets they have been approving over
the years for arms and ammunition and for military hardware
and software. Where is the money? Have you heard of the
hearing again?
THE CABLE: What do you think they are doing wrong in the
power sector?
BUHARI: If you could recall, after 1983 elections, NEPA
virtually collapsed. But when we came in 1984-1985, we had
the late Lukman, an engineer. He was in Plateau when I was
working as GOC 2 Armoured Division. I got to know him. He
was an extremely truly hardworking engineer of great
integrity. I put him in charge of NEPA. If you could recall, I did
the tour of NEPA installations and some industries. And we
ordered some spare parts mostly of the thermal station and
we were using the military C130 aircraft to bring spare parts.
By the time we were removed in August 1985, blackout in
Lagos had been forgotten because the thermal station had
been made functional. Lagos was the home of industries.
Industries were given priority because of employment. If you
close the factories, as they have done now, there will be no
goods and services. Power is the most important thing for our
sustained development. But unfortunately, the PDP
government has failed to understand or accept that. Hence
money, billions of dollars, goes down the drain.
If from 1999 till now, in my own perception, Kainji, Jebba,
Shiroro had been repaired and brought to optimal usage, and
we do the thermal stations… it is a question of changing
spare parts because the gas is there. The studies of Nigerian
petroleum, the studies of 1970s when I became minister of
petroleum, showed that Nigeria was a petroleum country in
name; mostly it is a gas country. In the east of the Niger, the
gas reserve there was fantastic. That was why LNG project
was initiated. You cannot initiate LNG except you have a 30-
year reserve to back you up. But this means nothing to the
PDP government. It is not a priority. That’s why we find
ourselves where we are.
THE CABLE: What’s your position on petroleum industry bill?
BUHARI: I know the PIB is a non-issue as far as this
government is concerned. So I am telling you practical things
that will transform the economy [beyond the PIB]. I will tell
you one thing about industries. The Nigerian textile firms in
Ikeja, Aba, Kaduna, Kano, they used to employ over 300,000
Nigerians in the 1980s. Now they employ less than 30,000. A
serious government would get worried if over 250,000 in one
industry are put out of job. Because behind every Nigerian
worker are five dependants. This is my problem with PDP
government. Unseriousness. That is the textile industry
alone.
THE CABLE: Part of the key recommendations in the PIB is
deregulation that will lead to the removal of petrol subsidy.
Removal of subsidy is sensitive issue. How do you hope to
handle that if you are elected president?
BUHARI: When we came into power, technically in December
1983 but we started in 1984, I had been part of Obasanjo’s
government in petroleum. Nigeria handed over to the second
republic government a relatively physically-secure and
economically-safe country. I can’t recall exactly how much
foreign reserve we had, but there was physical security and
the economy was good. That is what the military handed over
to the second republic.
By the time the military came back and I happened to be the
head of state, if anybody told you that he knew how much
Nigeria was owing, it was a lie. So we had two committees,
one international and the other local, to find out the debt
Nigeria had accumulated over those years and how. This
report has never seen the daylight because up to the time we
were removed, it was not brought to us. But when it was
eventually brought, by which time I was safely under lock and
key, nobody could do anything about it.
Secondly the American president then, Ronald Reagan, sent
his friend, General Walters, to me saying we should accept
the IMF programme. What was the IMF programme then?
World Bank and IMF wanted us to remove the so-called
petroleum subsidy, to devalue the naira, to remove the
subsidy on flour, as they perceived it. But what we knew was
that in some of the states, workers were being owed nine
months salaries. I was in Plateau state and I saw the so-
called progressive governors crisscrossing this country
almost every other month, making a lot of noise when the
ordinary worker was not being paid.
I told Walters we were not going to devalue the naira; we
were not going to remove any subsidy. And if you recall by the
time we were removed, one naira was equal to 1.2 or 1.5
dollars. The naira was run down to N80 to a dollar by General
Babangida’s regime. I refused to remove the so-called
petroleum subsidy. I said I had been in the petroleum industry
for three and a quarter years. I signed the contracts for Warri
and Kaduna refineries. I signed the contract for more than 20
depots, from Makurdi to Ilorin to Gusau to Kano to Maiduguri.
And then pipes were laid over 3,200 kilometres. Nigeria didn’t
borrow a kobo.
I can understand Nigerians being charged the cost of
petroleum if you can work it out… because we know how
Nigerian crude costs per barrel from the world market, the
transportation cost to the refinery, the money for refining and
then the transportation to the filling station. I agree Nigerians
should pay for that to sustain the industry.
But for someone to say they are subsidising, who is
subsidising who? This industry, the prospecting and
development, were paid for by the Nigerian people. We spent
money to discover the oil. Who then is subsidising who? To
come and kill Nigerians, you know, to put that amount of
burden on them when their salary is hardly enough for them
to eat, pay for their bill of their healthcare, and education of
their children. Who are you subsidising? It is Nigerian petrol,
it is Nigerian capital that was used to mine it, it is Nigerians
doing most of the work, so who are you subsidising? Subsidy
for what?
And even then, if you go and interview Tam David-West, when
I came back as head of state, and we stopped [illegal]
bunkering, Nigeria was choked with product. We were
exporting 100,000 barrels per day of refined products because
Warri, Kaduna, Port Harcourt alone was doing 250,000 a day,
the old refinery and the new one built… and we found out
Nigeria was normally consuming about 300,000 barrels a
day. All the people that were doing the [illegal] bunkering
abandoned their jetties, their barges, because they knew who
were sending them to jail or beyond. But now, Nigeria goes to
world market and buys petrol as much as any other person
does with all the infrastructure in place. That is how efficient
the PDP government is (laughter).
THE CABLE: Some of your allies in APC believe in fiscal
federalism, resource control and restructuring of the
federation. What is your position on these issues?
BUHARI: The important thing is to change Nigeria. And with
the economy which is almost down and out, how can you
bring sustainable economic development? There is the
terrible problem of youth unemployment. The first one is
security. Nigeria has to be secure and efficiently managed.
This cannot be done overnight. Nigerians have to be
prepared, at least from 2015 to maybe about 2018 to really
work extremely hard. We have to work extremely hard
because a lot of institutions have been compromised.
Education down, infrastructure down, security almost non-
existent.
So for anybody to come and create the impression that he can
work wonders [is a lie]. Nigerians have to be prepared to
suffer for at least five straight years before we can stabilise
this country, security wise and economically because so
much damage has been done. And Nigerians are feeling it. No
matter how much you like Nigerian voters, if you lie to them
they will know, because so much damage has been done. But
we can quickly recover as we showed between 1984 and 1986
until the naira was killed, literally. We were recovering.
THE CABLE: Do you believe in resource control?
BUHARI: Who is to control what? All this is said mainly on
petroleum because it is what Nigeria depends on. It gives us
at least 90% of our foreign revenue at the great danger of
ignoring agriculture and solid minerals, which Nigeria has
great potentiality in. In fact, in my declaration speech, I
emphasised the question of agriculture and solid minerals.
For employment of youth generally, we have to go into
agriculture very fast and solid minerals to complement the
petroleum industry and stop the illegal oil bunkering and
outright theft.
And we see what we can do with education, the standard of
education, and the lack of it in parts of the country, especially
the north. I believe some generations have been betrayed
because if people fail to go to school or become dropouts
before they go to university or tertiary institutions, and
without going to training schools to become electricians,
bricklayers, mechanics, and so on, we have really destroyed
their lives. I was listening to a programme now, from the BBC,
there are 64 million Nigerians that have missed education. 64
million.
Now, out of the population of a 160 or 170 million, you have a
youthful chunk that has missed education. We can only take
them to agriculture, solid minerals, give them quick training,
for them to get employment and a means of living because
you can’t say you’re going to send them to polytechnics, and
universities that are overcrowded, lack of infrastructure, no
equipment, no qualified teachers. Oh God! We’re in very, very
bad shape. Nigerians need to know we are in very, very bad
shape.........
THE CABLE: Some people say the quota system and federal
character no longer have a place in Nigeria, that originally
they were meant to equalise the states, but that now virtually
every state has educated people, that the field should be
thrown open. What’s your position on this?
BUHARI: I think it is important in the federation when you
come to the centre, it is better for people to feel that they too
are participating at the centre. But it must not be at the
expense of standards. Any geopolitical zone or state, if they
want their people to participate at the centre, must ensure
they can compete professionally. You can’t take somebody
who did not go to school or who said he went to the university
but cannot write a two-page memo, to become a permanent
secretary. How will he do it? How can he articulate policies
that will be taken to executive council to be debated by
ministers? We really have a problem. We have to remove
sentiments and not excite or provoke our constituencies that
they have to participate. You can only participate if you
develop the capacity to participate.
THE CABLE: So it should not be at the expense of merit?
BUHARI: Exactly! If you want your state to participate you
must make sure you do something about education in your
state. That you can produce qualified people to participate.
But because you are part of Nigeria, you kill education in your
state and you want your child to be taken and made
permanent secretary even though he cannot write his name.
THE CABLE: We know you as an honest and upright man but
in a democratic setting you have to deal with the National
Assembly and the judiciary. How do you fight corruption
within these constraints?
BUHARI: As I just mentioned to you, if you go to any ministry
or parastatal in Nigeria you will not fail to find out financial
instructions and administrative instructions. Schedule of
officers, expenditure, tenders board, but Nigerians put it in the
waste basket and do their own thing. And because leadership
has been compromised at various levels, if you are a personal
assistant and chief clerk and your head of department knows
that you are a thief, he cannot stop you from stealing. These
are Nigerians, we know what is wrong with us. That is why I
am putting the blame squarely on the shoulders of the elite.
We have a constitution and all sorts of laws… let us revisit
them. Let us move forward and stabilise the system. I am very
concerned about stabilising this system........
THE CABLE: And there is this sensitive issue of Muslim-
Muslim ticket…
BUHARI: You see, Nigerians will always discover impossible
room for manoeuvre for politicians. I had to face one of the
governors in our party’s meetings. I told you I joined partisan
politics in April 2002. In 2003, I was given a ticket. Whom did
I chose as my running mate? Chuba Okadigbo. He was
brought up by Zik. And he was senate president and was a
serving senator when he accepted to be my running mate. He
was a Roman Catholic. He was an Igbo. In 2007, whom did I
pick? Edwin Ume-Ezeoke. He was a Roman Catholic. He was
an Igbo. And in 2010, I even chose a pastor. Pastor Tunde
Bakare. Honestly, what do Nigerians want me to do? If they
don’t believe I’m not a fundamentalist, what also can I do?
In any case, who attempted to kill me? Is it Boko Haram or
who because I told them they were ungodly? Again I repeated
it during my declaration that they are ungodly. Because no
religion advocates hurting the innocent. No religion. So if you
go and kill children while they are sleeping, blow people up in
churches, in mosques, in the market place, and motor park,
you can’t say “Allau Akbar”. Because “Allau Akbar” means
God is great. Now if you believe God is great, he says you
must not hurt the innocent. There must be a justice system,
investigations… if you find people guilty, punish them. So, you
either don’t believe that God is great, or you don’t know what
you are saying. Is it for this that they attempted to blow me
up? Or somebody else did it?
So the question of this Muslim-Muslim ticket, although it was
a long way from Abiola and Kingibe [in 1993], all the same, I
have not absolutely closed my mind to picking a Christian or
Muslim as running mate if I get the ticket. Because I firmly
believe that Nigerians, having gone through what they have
gone through, realise it is not a matter of religion, but a
matter of Nigeria. And the main religions, Christianity and
Islam, they know and they believe in the almighty God. The
question of stealing and short-changing people in the name of
religion should stop. Why did Nigerians line up and elect
Abiola and Kingibe, both Muslims? The late Joseph Tarka, in
a clearly Roman Catholic environment, brought Ibrahim Imam
from Borno, to his constituency to represent Tivland in the
Northern House of Assembly in 1961. This new phenomenon
of religion is another blackmail political confusionists in
Nigeria are bringing to the fore.
I will tell you something. Tinubu’s wife is a Christian,
Governor Fashola’s wife is a Christian, Governor Amosun’s
wife is a Christian, Bisi Akande’s wife is a Christian, Governor
Ajimobi’s wife is a Christian. For goodness sake, the children
of these political leaders in Nigeria were bred and brought up
by Christian mothers. You think those people, wherever they
participate, they will bring a religious issue? What kind of
people are we? Nigerians will always bring something to
cause confusion while we are trying to stabilise the syste

Format your post, OP.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1896066_4_jpeg9679ccb5a92f650b83fcf29e0a6a6775

"Change is hard because people overestimate the value of what they have - and underestimate the value of what they will gain by giving that up."
James Belasco and Ralph Stayer - Flight of the Buffalo (1994)

Sorry to say buhari has no solution. All he is saying is u will recall u will recall. They asked him what he will do different from Gej he started talking of the past.

Ok pple say he will fight corruption, they asked him if he will dig up the files and prosecute the people, he said he will draw the line and move on. This is because when he starts to dig up stuff, he will find his own dirty secrets.

Dude gat brains

mekaboy:
Sorry to say buhari has no solution. All he is saying is u will recall u will recall. They asked him what he will do different from Gej he started talking of the past.

Ok pple say he will fight corruption, they asked him if he will dig up the files and prosecute the people, he said he will draw the line and move on. This is because when he starts to dig up stuff, he will find his own dirty secrets.

If you try to do that, the state will immediately
collapse because a lot of the institutions have been
compromised. With whom are you going to work? My own
belief now is that you just have to draw a line and move
forward.

This cannot be done overnight. Nigerians have to be
prepared, at least from 2015 to maybe about 2018 to really
work extremely hard. We have to work extremely hard
because a lot of institutions have been compromised.
Education down, infrastructure down, security almost non-
existent.
So for anybody to come and create the impression that he can
work wonders [is a lie]. Nigerians have to be prepared to
suffer for at least five straight years before we can stabilise
this country, security wise and economically because so
much damage has been done.

Shake my head at your own interpretation dude.
One quick question for you is you dey live life go back or forward?

Who will read these trash GEJ till 2019!!!

So on point.

I signed the contracts for Warri
and Kaduna refineries. I signed the contract for more than 20
depots, from Makurdi to Ilorin to Gusau to Kano to Maiduguri.
And then pipes were laid over 3,200 kilometres. Nigeria didn’t
borrow a kobo.

how many did Jonathan build?

So the question of this Muslim-Muslim ticket, although it was
a long way from Abiola and Kingibe [in 1993], all the same, I
have not absolutely closed my mind to picking a Christian or
Muslim as running mate if I get the ticket. Because I firmly
believe that Nigerians, having gone through what they have
gone through, realise it is not a matter of religion, but a
matter of Nigeria.

Christian-Christian/Muslim-Muslim/Pagan-Pagan/Hindu-Hindu or whatever, I don't care because it is irrelevant.
Buhari/Fashola for the offices of President and Vice President respectively. #APC 4 Change

temitemi1:
Who will read these trash GEJ till 2019!!!

Even if it's GEJ till you kpeme, sometimes you need to read stuff like this.
This is a good blueprint and idea from a different perspective. We often steal ideas from rivals.
Most times in life, spectators see a game better than who is playing it.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1918123_b32ljfeicaivujw_jpeg32b2bb5daf5abb423be6e20d08b70369

mekaboy:
Sorry to say buhari has no solution. All he is saying is u will recall u will recall. They asked him what he will do different from Gej he started talking of the past.

Ok pple say he will fight corruption, they asked him if he will dig up the files and prosecute the people, he said he will draw the line and move on. This is because when he starts to dig up stuff, he will find his own dirty secrets.

just listen to yourself, contraditing urself. If he said 'you will recall it means he has done it before, he doesn't even say i will do but is saying i did it b4 i will do it again

cluless

colossus2:




Shake my head at your own interpretation dude.
One quick question for you is you dey live life go back or forward?

d blind guy d live him life go backward.

mekaboy:
Sorry to say buhari has no solution. All he is saying is u will recall u will recall. They asked him what he will do different from Gej he started talking of the past.

Ok pple say he will fight corruption, they asked him if he will dig up the files and prosecute the people, he said he will draw the line and move on. This is because when he starts to dig up stuff, he will find his own dirty secrets.

Your analysis is myopic. This man is going into an election. You want him to say he'll start prosecuting people now? We are talking about fight big and powerful politicians. And some are even in APC. Do you think he will win any election if he reveals his strategy?
You people will always find something to say. Buhari is not here to say what he wants to do... his track record is there. And he has to make reference to it.

Hallmark of a great leader.