Peterken05:


Yh, thanks.

Wait, was that suppose to be sarcasm?

Nope.

5minsmadness:

No bible quotes then.

Since the beginning of time, God has desired to have a chosen race of people all to himself. He started by choosing Adam, then Enoch, Abraham, Moses etc etc and then finally founded a convenant with the Israelites. If anything, Christianity is a Jewish religion and not a 'white man's religion. The 'white men' fought against it for a long time but due to the faith, tenacity and perseverance of the saints, christianity won over the world and became a major world religion. It's not a whiteman's religion to colonise black men, If anything it will be a jewish-originated religion to colonise the world.

God did not appear to our ancestors with the good news because he did not choose them, simple. he has always favoured having special people He can call his own. He is not interested in quantity like the modern day pastor would have us believe but quantity.

There is an ancient legend that says the day Christ was born a voice cried out in the heavens "Pan is dead!" Pan represented all idols and foreign gods. In essence it symbolised the relinquishing of power to the Son of God in the flesh. Anywhere the name of Jesus Christ was going to be carried He would depose and dethrone other gods. And it was so.

There was nothing wrong in keeping slaves those days, but the bible recognised them as people with rights and exhorted that they should be treated fairly and with kindness. Even today we have nannies, househelps, huose cleaners, messengers, drivers etc and people in the lower social strata that we boss around and threaten with loss of their jobs if they stray. Such people carry the 'slave'status' just that we treat them with more respect nowadays; if you see the way some women handle their househelps it is even worse than what slaves suffered in days of old.

The adulteration of the christian faith in modern society is not God's fault but man's. it is not the message's fault but the messengers. Even the bible predicted things like these would happen in the last days when there would be false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing. Then we as christians shuld be prayerful and steadfast and hold on to the true faith.

At the end of the day the road that leads to salvation is narrow and full of tribulation. Only quality christians will make it through. And that is what God wants, not quantity, but Quality.

God chose a set of people and didn't choose, isn't that enough reason not to worship that god and start worshipping yours?

Oh, really? 5minsmadness, christianity is a jewish religion? Do you know your bible at all, do you understand history?
Jews were persecuted for thousands of years because they denied this dude called jesus, they didn't believe he existed, because there was no record of him whatsoever in their history.

Now lemme school you about the bible, christians were first called christians at antioch because there behavior was christlike, are these people jews? No, maybe not totally no. Jews are the ones that nailed to cross as the bible claims. Jews are the ones that persecute the disciples.

Christianity as we know it is a white men religion because the version of the christianity brought to africa, if not at all created by white men was modified by white men, the roman catholic church, church of england, protestants and co. These versions are the ones practiced today, goto isreal you won't see a jew practicing all these. (Consult any history textbook for details)

God didn't appear to our ancestors because he didn't choose them? Then Bleep him. That's enough reason not to practice xtianity

You see nothing wrong in keeping slaves? Seriously?
The bible told them to treat slaves with respect? No. You don't know your bible, its the other way round.

1 Peter 2:18 - Servants, [be] subject to [your]
masters with all fear; not only to the good and
gentle, but also to the froward.

Titus 2:9-10 - [Exhort] servants to be obedient unto
their own masters, [and] to please [them] well in all
[things]; not answering again

Ephesians 6:5 - Servants, be obedient to them that
are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear
and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto
Christ;

Yh, just because some dunce treat people without respect nowadays doesn't mean we should justify that act, its bad and we should criticise it.

I know it is not God's fault but men, but god really did a bad job by allowing men to destroy his religion like that.

All this quantity and quality, I don't seem to understand any of it.

Peterken05:


God chose a set of people and didn't choose, isn't that enough reason not to worship that god and start worshipping yours?

Oh, really? 5minsmadness, christianity is a jewish religion? Do you know your bible at all, do you understand history?
Jews were persecuted for thousands of years because they denied this dude called jesus, they didn't believe he existed, because there was no record of him whatsoever in their history.

Now lemme school you about the bible, christians were first called christians at antioch because there behavior was christlike, are these people jews? No, maybe not totally no. Jews are the ones that nailed to cross as the bible claims. Jews are the ones that persecute the disciples.

Christianity as we know it is a white men religion because the version of the christianity brought to africa, if not at all created by white men was modified by white men, the roman catholic church, church of england, protestants and co. These versions are the ones practiced today, goto isreal you won't see a jew practicing all these. (Consult any history textbook for details)

God didn't appear to our ancestors because he didn't choose them? Then Bleep him. That's enough reason not to practice xtianity

You see nothing wrong in keeping slaves? Seriously?
The bible told them to treat slaves with respect? No. You don't know your bible, its the other way round.

1 Peter 2:18 - Servants, [be] subject to [your]
masters with all fear; not only to the good and
gentle, but also to the froward.

Titus 2:9-10 - [Exhort] servants to be obedient unto
their own masters, [and] to please [them] well in all
[things]; not answering again

Ephesians 6:5 - Servants, be obedient to them that
are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear
and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto
Christ;

Yh, just because some dunce treat people without respect nowadays doesn't mean we should justify that act, its bad and we should criticise it.

I know it is not God's fault but men, but god really did a bad job by allowing men to destroy his religion like that.

All this quantity and quality, I don't seem to understand any of it.

If God almighty is more powerful than the other gods and has a final say in your eternity regardless of whether he chose you or not wouldn't it be better to serve Him? The gods you want to worship bow to him already so you might as well follow their example. Anything other than that is just being unrewardingly stubborn.

Note that I said Jewish-originated, everyone knows Christianity is not a Jewish religion. I was using your example of origins of christianity. Christ was a jew and born among jews. Remember he was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Wether they received him or not is left to them. It is from the jews that Christianity spread to the gentiles and then all over the world. Wether it became roman catholic or protestant later is a redundant issue.

You seem to have the idea of modern Christians that God is looking for worshippers. He made himself clear a long time ago that he seeks those who seek him out with a pure heart. He wants those who will be loyal to him no matter what. He seeks QUALITY not quantity. He gave Lucifer everything lucifer needed and yet lucifer still betrayed him. He doesnt want that to happen again. Now He wants people who will love him because they want to not becasue they are being forced or cajoled or bribed to do so. That is pure love and that is what the modern chruches fail to preach nowadays. Nowadays its all about getting rich and owning jet planes and paying multiple tithes and living like gods on earth, lol. That is not what God wants but they won't listen.
Quality, Refinement, Loyalty. Not quantity.



About slaves;
I said there was nothing wrong in keeping slaves those days, so it wasn't seen as anything. I didnt say i see nothing wrong in keeping slaves. It all depends on the times and what the time permits. back then a homosexual was called gay or twinkie or gay. Nowadays calling them such words is derogatory, they would rather be known as MSMs(Men who sleep with men). Prostitute was a legal term before, now they are called Commercial sex workers.
Time changes things.

The verses you quoted were admonitions to slaves to behave well with their masters. There were also admonitions to masters to treat their slaves well. And like I said, the bible wasn't totally in support of slavery. It was simply what was permissible at the time. See these verses:

Exodus 21:16 - And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

Colossians 4:1 - Masters, give unto [your] servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 6:9 - And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening(slaves-sic), knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him


Now then;
If Christianity wasn't the true religion then it should have fizzled out long ago, taking into consideration its humble and peculiar beginnings. Disciples used word of mouth and humility, kindness and wisdom to win over kingdoms long before the crusades began. In every religion man tries to reconcile himself to God. it is only in Christianity that God comes down to reconcile himself to man.

Jeremiah 17:9 said it all... Man is always looking for a way to use the little natural phenomena God unveils to him to justify his wickedness... You either foolishly (faith) as many non christian will call it follow Christ or you wisely follow the world (damnation). Remember, the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of the World... Who are you to question His mysteries?

5minsmadness:


If God almighty is more powerful than the other gods and has a final say in your eternity regardless of whether he chose you or not wouldn't it be better to serve Him? The gods you want to worship bow to him already so you might as well follow their example. Anything other than that is just being unrewardingly stubborn.

Note that I said Jewish-originated, everyone knows Christianity is not a Jewish religion. I was using your example of origins of christianity. Christ was a jew and born among jews. Remember he was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Wether they received him or not is left to them. It is from the jews that Christianity spread to the gentiles and then all over the world. Wether it became roman catholic or protestant later is a redundant issue.

You seem to have the idea of modern Christians that God is looking for worshippers. He made himself clear a long time ago that he seeks those who seek him out with a pure heart. He wants those who will be loyal to him no matter what. He seeks QUALITY not quantity. He gave Lucifer everything lucifer needed and yet lucifer still betrayed him. He doesnt want that to happen again. Now He wants people who will love him because they want to not becasue they are being forced or cajoled or bribed to do so. That is pure love and that is what the modern chruches fail to preach nowadays. Nowadays its all about getting rich and owning jet planes and paying multiple tithes and living like gods on earth, lol. That is not what God wants but they won't listen.
Quality, Refinement, Loyalty. Not quantity.



About slaves;
I said there was nothing wrong in keeping slaves those days, so it wasn't seen as anything. I didnt say i see nothing wrong in keeping slaves. It all depends on the times and what the time permits. back then a homosexual was called gay or twinkie or gay. Nowadays calling them such words is derogatory, they would rather be known as MSMs(Men who sleep with men). Prostitute was a legal term before, now they are called Commercial sex workers.
Time changes things.

The verses you quoted were admonitions to slaves to behave well with their masters. There were also admonitions to masters to treat their slaves well. And like I said, the bible wasn't totally in support of slavery. It was simply what was permissible at the time. See these verses:

Exodus 21:16 - And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

Colossians 4:1 - Masters, give unto [your] servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 6:9 - And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening(slaves-sic), knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him


Now then;
If Christianity wasn't the true religion then it should have fizzled out long ago, taking into consideration its humble and peculiar beginnings. Disciples used word of mouth and humility, kindness and wisdom to win over kingdoms long before the crusades began. In every religion man tries to reconcile himself to God. it is only in Christianity that God comes down to reconcile himself to man.

No God doesn't, you can't know, there are many religions, many Gods, many possible things people have said that could happen to you after you die (with no evidence like yours). How can you know yours is the right one?
The probability is 1/1000. That's by no means close to been real.

You are just as atheistic as me, I don't believe in 2000 Gods, you don't believe in 1999, what's the difference? Your own God.

So an Omnipotent, Omniscience, Omnipresent God gave lucifer everything but didn't know lucifer was going to betray him?
Many he is not as Omniscience as you think or not an Omniscient God at all.

No, it is not pure love, saying people will burn in hell for not following you is not love, its an ABUSE.

All these verses still acknowledge slavery.
Why can't there be verses like:
Do not keep slaves, if someone works for you pay them.
My point exactly is the bible is not something a 21st century will write about. It is full of barbaric stuff.

No, Time doesn't change things, things changed, improved because of scientific, secular knowledge over time and ignorance of scriptures.

So God came down again, he didn't send his son.
So God prays to himself everyday on the mountain when he was here on earth,
So (Jesus) God prays to his father who is him to bless the meal before feeding 5000 people?
So (Jesus)God was praying or reffering to himself, when he said My Father, My Father/3x, why hath that forsaken me?


who does that?

STOP CONFUSING YOURSELF.

Peterken05:


No God doesn't, you can't know, there are many religions, many Gods, many possible things people have said that could happen to you after you die (with no evidence like yours). How can you know yours is the right one?
The probability is 1/1000. That's by no means close to been real.

You are just as atheistic as me, I don't believe in 2000 Gods, you don't believe in 1999, what's the difference? Your own God.

So an Omnipotent, Omniscience, Omnipresent God gave lucifer everything but didn't know lucifer was going to betray him?
Many he is not as Omniscience as you think or not an Omniscient God at all.

No, it is not pure love, saying people will burn in hell for not following you is not love, its an ABUSE.

All these verses still acknowledge slavery.
Why can't there be verses like:
Do not keep slaves, if someone works for you pay them.
My point exactly is the bible is not something a 21st century will write about. It is full of barbaric stuff.

No, Time doesn't change things, things changed, improved because of scientific, secular knowledge over time and ignorance of scriptures.

So God came down again, he didn't send his son.
So God prays to himself everyday on the mountain when he was here on earth,
So (Jesus) God prays to his father who is him to bless the meal before feeding 5000 people?
So (Jesus)God was praying or reffering to himself, when he said My Father, My Father/3x, why hath that forsaken me?


who does that?

STOP CONFUSING YOURSELF.

It is you who is confused, and I don't mean that in a bad way.
You subscribe to what mushroom churches tell you about God, that is why you are confused.
You think God is human, you think God thinks like you do or sees good and evil like you do.

You have to seek God out by yourself. I strongly suggest you ignore secular Christian programmes and read the Bible by yourself. I recommend the Catholic Bible containing the apocrypha for starters, read it with an unbiased mind.

I was privy to a lot of spiritual information when I was little. So I know God exists. It's not just about religious brainwashing. I know about that too.

My advice: Wait until you are thirty, then make up your mind whether you want to remain an atheist or not. Every man goes through a desert phase in their life when they feel there is no god. Some are destined to come out of it while others are not. It would be best to come out of it without much baggage. By baggage I mean memories of things you cannot undo. Like a repentant killer cannot raise the dead soul of that whom he has killed, you may never be able to undo the damage you might cause by leading others astray. Be patient. When you are totally convinced, when you have seen enough of life (at thirty is usually the best time), then you can cuss god out all you want.


Now to your questions.

Peterken05:


No God doesn't, you can't know, there are many religions, many Gods, many possible things people have said that could happen to you after you die (with no evidence like yours). How can you know yours is the right one?

You should read about NDEs, Near Death Experiences. No, not the DVDs peddled in onitsha by people claiming they have seen heaven and hell and are willing to tell their tale for a price, but real authentic experiences by people who had nothing to gain or lose from telling a lie. Google it.
NDEs have a particular similarity all around the world. The people that experience it see a light like in a tunnel, and then they move on or are taken to a place of surrealism and bliss. But even in such a wonderful place people are categorised into those that are unhappy/unsatisfied and those that are at peace. This experience occurs regardless of religious inclinations.

What you should note here is the similarities in the experiences. A place of extreme bliss and a place of abject discomfort. Whether there is fire or brimstone or people with wings is irrelevant.

The probability is 1/1000. That's by no means close to been real.

This figure has no backing. There are more than a thousand gods surely so the probability should be higher.

You are just as atheistic as me, I don't believe in 2000 Gods, you don't believe in 1999, what's the difference? Your own God.

You misunderstand. You think I don't believe in the other '1999' gods? Of course I do. But there is one supreme God, the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords and the God of gods. And the others bow before Him.

So an Omnipotent, Omniscience, Omnipresent God gave lucifer everything but didn't know lucifer was going to betray him?
Many he is not as Omniscience as you think or not an Omniscient God at all.

I can't claim to know all of God's thoughts. A wise person said if God was so simple to understand then He wouldn't be God. Think about that.

If God really was omnipotent, omniscient, omni-everything... Don't you think He would be extremely bored? What would be the point of it all? Since He knows the end from the beginning why bother to create at all since he already knows the outcome?

I'm trying to recall the title of a book but have forgotten to title. If I remember I'll put it here.

If God was indeed God and is one and all and everything, then there would be no need for creation or life or death or destiny or anything.

Is it possible that God spent millions of years alone and then decided to create and when he did he knew how the creation would end and the outcome 'bored' him for want of a better word... And so he created free will?

With free will there were different permutations to eventualities, God would allow his creation to use free will without interference (something he still does till today), just to see what path of decision his creation would take. It would definitely make things more interesting.

So when he gave lucifer free will he knew lucifer might rebel, but he also knew lucifer might not. It was lucifer's choice. And when he made that choice God knew what would happen next.
Same thing in the garden of eden.
Same thing when he asked who would go down to die for mankind and Jesus freely offered to do so of his free will.

It's a whole book and this is an absurdly compact summary but I hope you get where am going with it.

No, it is not pure love, saying people will burn in hell for not following you is not love, its an ABUSE.

It's not abuse.
It is the law. Plain and simple.
Heaven was created for the pure soul. A soul stained with sin cannot enter heaven. That is the law. That is why Jesus had to come down and pay the ultimate price to cleanse man of his sin. All you have to do to enter is to acknowledge Jesus ' sacrifice. It s easier that way. Unfortunately, hearing the word and not heeding it is tantamount to breaking the law in a foreign country. You will still be penalised.
Those who never hear of Jesus will be judged by their works. That is a harder way.
But like I previously said. God is not interested in numbers. He wants loyalty. Those souls who will follow him regardless of miracles or blessings or wealth or easy living. This is what he wants.

All these verses still acknowledge slavery.
Why can't there be verses like:
Do not keep slaves, if someone works for you pay them.
My point exactly is the bible is not something a 21st century will write about. It is full of barbaric stuff.

You only call it barbaric because you are in the 21st century. In three hundred years people will call your way if living barbaric. They will laugh at your iPhone and Android phones and call them archaic ad primitive. They will be shocked at how you couldn't cure a simple disease like HIV/AIDS or how you really believed you were the only living beings in the universe. Time changes, culture changes, but good and evil remain the same.

It's not about owning slaves. It's about how the bible wanted slaves to be treated.

No, Time doesn't change things, things changed, improved because of scientific, secular knowledge over time and ignorance of scriptures

.
See my above answer on change.
Even the bible says knowledge will increase in the latter days. Time is the ultimate gamechanger. And God has it in infinite abundance.

So God came down again, he didn't send his son.
So God prays to himself everyday on the mountain when he was here on earth,
So (Jesus) God prays to his father who is him to bless the meal before feeding 5000 people?
So (Jesus)God was praying or reffering to himself, when he said My Father, My Father/3x, why hath that forsaken me?

I assume you are referring to when I said God came down to reconcile himself to man. It wasn't meant literally though I might argue it out on the basis of the Trinity but I don't have the energy for that right now.

Or maybe I do.

Look at it this way. God took a piece of his self and implanted it in a Virgin's womb after asking her permission (here is that free will again). Mary had to accept, it wasn't by force. When Jesus was born he had that piece of the divine in Him, but he was also imbued with fallen worldly flesh with all its imperfections. Jesus had to spend time getting used to himself and what he could do. There are a lot of stories about Jesus' childhood that would be too lengthy to bring up here but suffice to say, Mary and Joseph knew they were not raising up an ordinary kid. Mary even sent him on a mission (changing water to wine) before his appointed time to 'show himself' came.
Jesus was to later begin his ministry and preach to the people and perform miracles. This is God reaching out to man. Zeus never did that, neither did amadioha.

There is another divine law. And that is the law of giving ALL the glory to God. The focus is on God and not on miracles or pastors or prophets or men of god. The glory is to God alone. So Jesus blessed God and gave him all the glory in front of all the people. He was showing both humility and reverence to his heavenly origin and father.

And when that piece of God called Jesus took upon the sins of the world on that cross, he became tainted. Sin is not an option for God at all. It doesn't matter who you are or what your origins are. So God saw the sin in Jesus and 'turned away'. Hence Jesus' exclamation "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me!"

Jesus had to shed his blood and die to atone for the sins of the world. That is the law. And he fulfilled it and triumphed.
And now you don't need to atone for your sins with 100lashes of the cane or by sacrificing anybody or anything. All you have to do is give yourself freely (free will) to God, from your heart, obey his commandments of love and let him into your heart and your soul(not your body, not wealth or riches or freedom from sickness) will be saved.

.