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HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? - Career (3) - Nairaland

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Top HND Holders In Nigeria / Hnd Graduates Can Now Rise Above Level 14 / Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? (2) (3) (4)

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Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by donmayor(m): 4:29pm On Sep 03, 2006
You guys want to depend on the senate in a country where law does not work? What does the senate want to do to companies that discriminate, imprison their CEO's? It's all propaganda. Na naija we dey. Was there not a time they summoned an MD of one of these oil companies and he never appeared upon all the noise they made? 5 years my foot. Go get an advanced degree from a UNIVERSITY cool and work based on that. There is a future for HND graduate but it's not now.Don't give me the technical crap, no Nigerian public institution to the best of my knowledge has succeeded in giving the required technical education/theoretical education that would empower us in the job market.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by ishmael(m): 7:36am On Sep 04, 2006
Donmayor, its funny oo; so you dont believe anything could work in nigeria? And secondly you dont believe in nigerian higher institutions. Well i agree with you to some extent. Things are that bad in nigeria that even the legal system itself is not left out. But we are praying for things to change for better.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by Christino(m): 6:16pm On Sep 04, 2006
ishmael:

Donmayor, its funny oo; so you don't believe anything could work in nigeria? And secondly you don't believe in nigerian higher institutions. Well i agree with you to some extent. Things are that bad in nigeria that even the legal system itself is not left out. But we are praying for things to change for better.

Yes but God is not listening, or we its not our time, or we didn't scream loud enough, or we haven't suffered enough. Kai. Walahi.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by donmayor(m): 7:28pm On Sep 04, 2006
Everything no work for Nigeria including God.
He is listening but the solution to our problem is with us we just don't want to do it.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by ishmael(m): 7:58pm On Sep 04, 2006
Remember, with God all things are possible.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by godslove: 8:09pm On Sep 04, 2006
it is very good to know that God really exist
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by godslove: 8:12pm On Sep 04, 2006
pls i need a help,can u tell me d email addy for globacom.thanks

           great
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by Tdaves(m): 9:40pm On Sep 04, 2006
what can we do ,seriously it is a big question to ask ourself with over 150 million people in Nigeria.if you are an Handhold am sorry this is not good news at all.But what can we still do to give this group of individual hope? sad
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by takomuyiw(m): 12:42pm On Sep 05, 2006
i believe that instead of trying to find out which is the superior qualification ,hnd or bsc. hnd holders should spend more time in proving their worth.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by ishmael(m): 3:24pm On Sep 05, 2006
tako muyiw:

i believe that instead of trying to find out which is the superior qualification ,hnd or bsc. hnd holders should spend more time in proving their worth.
PALLY WE HAVE PROVED OURSELVES SEVERAL TIMES. DO YOU WANT US TO STILL DO IT AGAIN?? OK FIND OUT FROM ICAN HEADOFFICE.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by Nobody: 11:18pm On Sep 05, 2006
obasanjo and all the other thieves at the helm of affairs,what degree do they have?

None.

They never went to school(defence academy is no school) and cannot appreciate higher learning yet they determine who is 'well educated' and who is not.
This is an outrage!!!

So you mean to tell me that premier institutions like Yabatech,IMT enugu,kaduna and Idah poly that have produced CEO's of various banks and institutions for years are suddenly of no use or are inferior to all these so called universities that chunk out graduates who have crammed textbooks,know of science experiments without touching a test tube talk less of the accompanying reagents.

Gimme a break!.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by zebudaya(m): 11:29pm On Sep 05, 2006
If you say the universities are bad, then the polytechnics are bad also as long as[b] both are run by the state[/b].
Enough of all this rhetoric, university students learn theory, polytechnic learn practical crap! are polytechnics heaven? My cousin went to Yabatech, and her learning environment was nothing to write home about.
I know how hard I had to study at UNILAG just to pass my exams, teacher doesn't want to teach, pissed off about his life, 600 people in my class, so much noise and everywhere hot as hell, cult wahala in my dorms and somebody comes to tell me It's all theory.

Even In so called yankee Universities how many times does the average student get to work in practical/real life situations? isn't it mostly theory in class?

Educational facilities in Naija are horrible, polytechnic or university full stop.

No need to complain anybody that graduated in the last 10 years knew that HND is considered inferior to the Bsc. Yet they went ahead and did it only to complain about spilt milk. didn't you know before you started it? Everybody is like I can prove myself, prove my self only 10% are very good A students the remaining are mostly B and C students there's not much proving to be done there.

Go to a university and get a Bachelors and reduce the need to prove yourself!
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by ishmael(m): 7:31am On Sep 06, 2006
Zebudaya, HND has never been inferior to a Bsc. It is you and the society that believes that anything that does not come from the university is inferior. We have proved you and your cohort wrong long ago; we reject that claim. Prove yourself is the most important thing. My broda, dont even try comparing what you learnt in the university with what we did in the polytechnics. We have seen your course curriculum and have been able to compare and contrast. Sorry, you people did less work than we did, and as such we cannot agree that Bsc graduates know better than HND graduates. We have enough evidences to give to you. Ask ICAN they will tell you. That is why we beat most of you hands down in tests and interviews. And for your information we do our courses with practicals in the polytechnics. Lastly we dont need to go and get a Bachelor's degree which we consider to be less in quality than our HND, rather we will go ahead to do PGD and Msc in the university. And i dont think you you are better than any polytechnic HND graduate in your field. What course did you read anyway??
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by ashiruabdu: 2:31pm On Sep 06, 2006
WHATS UP YALL, I HAVE FOLLOWED THE DISCUSSION ON THE POLY-UNIVERSITY GRADUATES . BUT LET ME TELL U ALL THAT ITS NOT THE UNIVERSITY OR POLYTHECNIC U GRADUATE FROM THAT MATTERS, WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS UR SENSE OF SELF-WORTH, AND U'R PERSONAL CAPABILITY, DONT FORGET POLY OR UNI WE ALL WERE BORN DIFFERENT. SO LOOK INWARDS IN WHAT U ARE PERSONALLY CAPABLE OF ACHIEVING IN LIFE. DONT FORGOT WE ALL HAVE OUR POTENTIALS INDEPENDENTLY. LEST WE FORGET, BILL GATES THE ACCALIMED WEALTHIEST MAN IN THE WORLD DID NOT GRADUATE FORM ANY UNIVERSITY OR PLOY. SO THINK ABOUT. JOB OR NO JOB, THINK INWADS LIKE BILL GATES DID.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by donmayor(m): 3:21pm On Sep 06, 2006
don't mention Bill Gates here abeg. Bill Gates came from a wealthy family. His fried Paul Allen if I got the name right did not drop out even though he shared the same vision with Bill but completed schul and still became sumthing. Please don't go to schul, let's see what u would become. do what you enjoy doing even if it does not bring u money and u would be successful and happy as long as u do it right and with all ur heart. Self worth and capability won't make u happy.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by Kajiang02(m): 4:45pm On Sep 06, 2006
smiley tongue kiss
The issue is dat Nigerians r very gud @ copyin d rung tin.the HND/Bsc shit started in UK/Britain in which the polytechnic system ws made 2 meet d physical manpower of an industry, and after years of running the programs,they found out dat both grades represents each other in some ways and they made it equalled.
Sinced nigerians r known 4 copyin d system which we happily did,, d same mentality did not occur 2 dem 2 change annd amend as d changes ve bin made,, they didnt, instead dey continued in discriminatin b/w both grades,
Dats d trut.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by ishmael(m): 6:06pm On Sep 06, 2006
Donmayor, does coming from a wealthy family make a person a genius?? Bill gates was not a genius because he came from a wealthy family. He was determined to excel and he excelled above all his pairs. Is it every child that comes from a wealthy home in Nigeria that is intelligent or a genius?? Bill Gates was neither a university nor polytechnic graduate but yet he was able to do what professors could not have imagined or thought of doing. Lets not use our Degrees and Diplomas to intimidate people; rather we should think of what to create or invent that would convince people that we are actually what we claim to be.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by Nobody: 7:23pm On Sep 06, 2006
ishmael:

Donmayor, does coming from a wealthy family make a person a genius?? Bill gates was not a genius because he came from a wealthy family. He was determined to excel and he excelled above all his pairs. Is it every child that comes from a wealthy home in Nigeria that is intelligent or a genius?? Bill Gates was neither a university nor polytechnic graduate but yet he was able to do what professors could not have imagined or thought of doing. Lets not use our Degrees and Diplomas to intimidate people; rather we should think of what to create or invent that would convince people that we are actually what we claim to be.




I second you on this one my bro
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by dayokanu(m): 8:46pm On Sep 06, 2006
All I can tell you is that waiting on govt or senate bill to equate B.Sc and HND is just time wasting as this can go on for years. the discrimination has been on before most of us entered school that mean you were fore warned
dont tell me you are waiting for govt
govt is there enjoying take a direct entry form before it is too late

When even some employers discriminate against state university if you like get a 5.0 GPA

If you are claiming that University education is rotten I can tell you that polytechnics have fared worse
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by donmayor(m): 9:06pm On Sep 06, 2006
But comin from a wealthy family can make u gamble with education. I did not imply his wealth family made him a genius or not. If you want me to start mentioning names of great people who had little or no schooling and acheived what many of us have not acheived who went to school I would fill this page. Thomas Edison was called retarded but he is one of the world's greatest inventors. Yet my point remains that mentioning Bill Gates in dis topic does not achieve any aim to me, he might as well as completed his last year in schul and still become the world's richest man. 3 years studying computer science at Harvard was an advantage too. Read the biography of Bill Gates and u would know that his parents wealth played an important role is making him what he is. Don't tell an average Nigerian who does not touch a computer until he is 15 to drop out of schul. Don't tell an average Nigerian who is intelligent to drop out and do something, they would just dupe him. Yeah be determined, yeah take risk but not the Bill Gates kind. It worked for him, it definitely won't work for you grin

Thank you dayokanu, you just hit the nail on the head. I don't know why we just don't want to accept whats on ground in Nigeria now. Definitely, there are exceptions to the treatment meted out to HND graduates but majority are discriminated against and unless things change it's a mistake doing polyjamb or goin to polytechnics
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by zebudaya(m): 12:51am On Sep 07, 2006
ishmael:

Zebudaya, HND has never been inferior to a Bsc. It is you and the society that believes that anything that does not come from the university is inferior. We have proved you and your cohort wrong long ago; we reject that claim. Prove yourself is the most important thing. My brother, don't even try comparing what you learnt in the university with what we did in the polytechnics. We have seen your course curriculum and have been able to compare and contrast. Sorry, you people did less work than we did, and as such we cannot agree that Bsc graduates know better than HND graduates. We have enough evidences to give to you. Ask ICAN they will tell you. That is why we beat most of you hands down in tests and interviews. And for your information we do our courses with practicals in the polytechnics. Lastly we don't need to go and get a Bachelor's degree which we consider to be less in quality than our HND, rather we will go ahead to do PGD and Msc in the university. And i don't think you you are better than any polytechnic HND graduate in your field. What course did you read anyway??

Ishmael,
It's one thing for poly graduates and students to say "we are being discriminated against", fine, but its another thing for them to build themselves up by tearing someone else down by saying crap like "We have seen your course curriculum and have been able to compare and contrast. Sorry, you people did less work than we did, and as such we cannot agree that Bsc graduates know better than HND graduates. We have enough evidences to give to you. Ask ICAN they will tell you". You keep saying ICAN what kind of practicals do accounting students do in poly, apart from internships/I.T isn't it only software packages you need to learn for accounting, so where do practicals and theory come in?


Truth be told most of the poly graduates went there because they could not get into a University after all in Nigeria Most people write Jamb. With the aim of going to university,

lastly I read Electrical/Electronics Engineering at UNILAG, our curriculum is the same as those of Western Universities. The only thing is that our labs sucked and they were not up to par but As i mentioned before there is no way that the poly labs could have been in better condition and with better equipment as they are run by the state, If you say private university then it's another story.

I also mentioned that the top 10% in the poly are probably as good as the top 10% in the universities but thats where it stops, because the rest are mostly B and C students. There is no need for proof! Lastly An engineering degree hands down is the hardest bachelors degree to get on the planet so there's no need talking to ICAN, they can never ever ever ever get on our level , And there is no way in hell in Nigeria of Today that Poly's do it better.

Cheers wink
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by Nobody: 1:11am On Sep 07, 2006
hmm,engineering is the hardest degree?.
law students,medical,vet med,everyone thinks theirs is hardest my bro.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by zebudaya(m): 3:49am On Sep 07, 2006
In the beginning God said Let there be light and there was light (solar/electrical engineering)
let us [b]create [/b]man in our own image (engineering)

Noah build the ark with these dimensions (engineering)

hey zeb build tools for doctors (biomedical engineering) and courts and houses for the lawyers (civil) and so on and so forth grin
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by dayokanu(m): 8:12am On Sep 07, 2006
Definitely you can't compare students of Wole Soyinka ( a Professor at Ife) and Chike Obi (a professor UNN) and so many professors that are legends with those who study under Mister XYZ
Can you compare someone thought by Wole Soyinka or Chike Obi to someone taught by Mr XYZ or tell me any notable poly lecturer or are you telling me that the quality of your teacher does not affect the product?

I am sure the number of professors of Chemistry in UI is more than all the Nigerian Polytechnics together!!!

In the engineering profession The Engineers Univrersity graduates are the designers at the top and the Poly Grads because of the good knowledge of practicals are the ones who carry the designs out the prctical they are doing is on the brain work of one designer (University Graduate)

You mentioned Bill Gate don't forget that he was a university student never a polytechnic student an outstanding one too that chose to drop out to pursue a personal biz

You speak ill of professors when the pinnacle of academic achievement is being a Professor

Forget about Nigeria and look at the list of best school in the world top 1000 how many poly are there compared to University

and compare the graduates and the great men of academics most were in the University

You can't compare the best student in poly with the worst in the University definitely the poly would be better If you want to compare Take the best student in Yabatech,Kadpoly or IMT or Ibadanpoly and compare them to the best students in Ife, UI, Unilag, UNN or ABU and tell me the result when we were in secondary school the best students go to university and the ones below to Polytechnic

@Zebudaya
I agree with you that Engr is the toughest I did Chemical Engr from Ife
and our curriculum is very similar to MIT's one of the lecturers (Prof Sanni Probably the first prof of chemical engr in Africa) who founded the dept in Ife did his B.Sc in MIT and M.Sc in Cambridge ( I bet you cant get that kind of quality in any poly or you can name one that can match the few I mentioned ) and he saw to it that the curriculum is world class but the laboratory is another thing else

@ Ishmael dont bother comparing the average products of the 2 institutions dont make the mistake of comparing the best from poly to the worst from uni
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by dayokanu(m): 8:15am On Sep 07, 2006
For your info our host Seun Osewa was an exceptional University first class electrical and electronics engr student from Ife his G.P was over 4.75 as at yr 3
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by ishmael(m): 8:43am On Sep 07, 2006
And so what if seun is a 1st class elect engineering graduate from ife? Dont we have people with Distinction in engineering from polytechnics?? We also have poly graduates that have built websites too. Polytechnic engineering technologist do a lot too. Engineer zebudaya, polytechnics do engineering Technology better than universities. Engineering requires good practical skills which the polytechnic graduates posses and not theory. And for accounting practical you are exposed to real-life government, industrial and company accounting and auditing which makes you practically better in accounting and auditing jobs. Hey accounting departments in the polytechnics have accounting Labs where they carry our practical accounting and auditing.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by zebudaya(m): 3:29pm On Sep 07, 2006
The Engineering Technology curriculum is not as Rich as Engineering. Let me tell you why, In the poly they go straight to the technical part and its more hands on earlier, but they do not know the science. In Universities you learn the science like statics and dynamics, engineering economics, thermodynamics etc. In addition you learn the technical (practical) aspects of Engineering, thus you are a well rounded student and thats why University graduates are on top. Because they know and can talk about the Science/Theory and can actually perform the work. And everybody knows if you are articulate then you convince people that you know what you are talking about, and can solve the problem! on the other hand the poly guys know what to do but did not read the science, they cant talk to you about the science, and cant explain the problem. They cant talk about statics and dynamics for the most part so they are lost in a conversation with a civil Engineer, Probably cant talk to you about Engineering economics and cost to execute projects so they are lost when talking to a Business admin major etc

So in the long run who's better! They are Engineering "Technicians" we are Engineers cheesy
don't worry I have a big towel and I'm wiping off that smug better-than-thou-look-and-smile-on-my-face!
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by Hndholder(m): 4:01pm On Sep 07, 2006
Zebudaya, are sure you are saying the corect thing, your knowledge about Nigerian HND engineering is so shallow that you need special teacher, Do not go to area you do not know.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by zebudaya(m): 4:07pm On Sep 07, 2006
educate me then
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by ishmael(m): 4:51pm On Sep 07, 2006
Zebudaya, do you want us to start listing courses offered by poly and uni in mechanical engineering or any field in science and technology?? Polytechnics do the science and technology of engineering, although with much bias in technology. Pally dont talk about what you dont know about. Pls if you know anybody that read Bsc Statistics or computer science, ask the person to list all the course he/she offered from 100 level to 400 levels in the university and i will list all the courses we offered from ND1 to HND2 in the polytechnic. I can bet with you that we do more statistics and more computer science in Nigerian polytechnics than u people in the universities. Lets list out the courses if you wish. As for engineering i can still do that too if you wish. list out your own let me see. Pally dont let us expose you people o. If you are ready list the courses lets see.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by zebudaya(m): 5:24pm On Sep 07, 2006
ishmael:

?? Polytechnics do the science and technology of engineering, although with much bias in technology.

Exactly my point!. cheesy

Universities balance out the science and the technology thus making you a well rounded student.
Taking statistics in class and solving everything by hand is very different from the real world where every body uses Excel, Minitab, and SPSS. Did you guys use these software at poly or did you mostly solve by hand?

Same goes for computer science, which succesful commercial software did your professors write . it's one thing to brag about book knowledge it's another thing to apply the knowledge successfuly.
Re: HND Certificate: An Embarrassment? by Hndholder(m): 5:59pm On Sep 07, 2006
Do you know that the present syllabus was as a result lowering of too superior polytechnic syllabus

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