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Stats: 2,777,131 members, 6,616,765 topics. Date: Saturday, 04 December 2021 at 08:14 PM
|My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 9:47pm On Aug 23, 2006|
A Proud Frenchman who hardly look at Player's Passport but Ability to do the Job.
He has done a lot for English football bringing in Afro-French flavours to the premiership.
[size=14pt]To Nairaland-Gunners, he is a believer and developer of youths but to me he is very good manager of resources.[/size]
Please don't over-hype your Coach.
How many of Arsenal's academy make it to the first team?
If we have to look for a Coach that develop players, take a ride to Old Tratford to see the Scottish man who discover and develop the following players; (1) David Beckham (2) Gary Neville (3) Phil Neville (4) Paul Scholes (5) Ryan Giggs (6) Wes Brown to mention but few.
Baba Alex never go to other club's academy to steal
Another team that worth applause is West ham that has produced Frank Lampard, Jermain Defoe, Glenn Johnson, Ferdinands, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick among others.
Lets hear your views guys.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by debosky(m): 10:20pm On Aug 23, 2006|
how long did it take fergie to get those players he's ben coach at man u for donkey years before any of those players came up.
He is not just a good manager of talents, he's willing to take risks with youth and flush out 'experienced' players in order to give youth a chance. Very soon many more players from arsenal academy will make the first team. for now - justin hoyte, ashley cole
even if a player is discovered in another league, what he has is potential, forming the player to a finished article is no easy job, and that is what Wenger is special at doing
works in progress - djourou, senderos, eboue, flamini amongst others
talent is usually not enough, i'm sure i dont need to tell you the story of etim esin - very talented, but never amounted to much cuzz he was never developed the right way.
so i guess if Pennant does well at Liverpool this season you'll agree he was developed at arsenal? cuzz many of those players only fufilled their true potential when exposed to better coaches/managers
wenger may not always be the first 'discoverer' but he sure knows how to bring that potential to its fullest.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by pie1ect(m): 10:47pm On Aug 23, 2006|
I think Wenger is the ultimate developer of talent.
He is a very good spotter of talent in the first place, and in that sense I don't think even Ferguson comes close.
Developing a young talent takes a lot of man-management skills and in this area as well, I must say Wenger has excelled greatly.
Flamini, Djourou, Hoyte, Pennant, to name a few.
Not to mention the likes of Henry, Cesc, Vieira, whohave become accomplished in their own rights.
In the pipeline, you have the likes of Fran Merida, Ryan Smith, Arturo Lupoli, Armand Traore and the precocious Theo Walcott.
Maybe I'm biased, but I do believe that Wenger has proven himself in the area of youth development. With all due respect, Ferguson comes a cloase second.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 12:38am On Aug 24, 2006|
For clarity purposes, i have sectioned yur comments;
1) Donkey but fruitful years, they are known to be United from the word go NOT SNATCHING FROM OTHER TEAM AND TRY HIM IN ENGLAND.
2) So you can only mention 2 players from the Academy, na wa o
3) Are these from the academy as well?
4) So you are attributing Pennant's recent success to Wenger for God sake. Do you know he passes through Birmingham as well.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Jackal(m): 12:50am On Aug 24, 2006|
Its people like u that gives the gooners a bad name.
Ferguson second to Wenger in youth development? I am having a laugh.
How many players have graduated from Arsenal's youth academy to become world stars under Arsene Wenger? NIL.
Henry and Vieira already featured for France in the world cup '98 before they joined Arsenal so don't go there.
It only shows u lack football knowledge at the global level when u mentioned Theo Walcott that already featured for Southampton.
I wont be surprised if u think Wenger taught Walcott the skills he currrently displays.
Ferguson took a class of youth academy in 1992 to win titles after titles in England.
David Beckham, Nevilles, Nicky Butt, Paul Scholes, Wes Brown, Ryan Giggs, Kieran Richardson and a host of others.
Wenger is a distant 2nd to Alex Ferguson when it comes to player development.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 12:54am On Aug 24, 2006|
What has Oron born Etim has to do with this?
I know Quite a lot about Etim, in fact from Nigeria to Belgium via Chile '87.
Can you clarify yourself please?
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 12:59am On Aug 24, 2006|
YOU ARE SIR
JUST LIKE EVERY GUNNER.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by debosky(m): 1:00am On Aug 24, 2006|
4) the reason i mentioned pennant is because lampard, joe cole and carrick also went through other clubs - chelsea and tottenham before they became the finished articles they currently are, but you attributed cole, lampard and carrick to westham,
so all i was saying is if 3 years after leaving west ham lampard's success is still attributed to them, will u agree the same for pennant?
i don't think so, those players were merely disocvered at west ham, their development came at other clubs
djourou is from the academy, the rest were bought young and are being developed
1a) ferguson has been coach of man u for much more than double the time wenger has been the coach of arsenal. i was just trying to show you thast if u take an average of the number of players 'discovered' over the whole coaching period, wenger and fergie would be neck and neck
1b) as to the 'snatching' comment, all teams just get scared when wenger takes interest in a player, because due to wengers reputation for spotting excellent talent at a tender stage, one arsenal expresses interest in a player they all start screaming blue murder cos they know they've let a jewel slip from their hands. wenger has never been proven to have conducted illegal approaches on players, its only after the deal is done that all these whinings come out.
mr wenger is a very dispassionate person, if a player is not up to scratch/not suitable, he'll be let go, he won't in the name of 'i developed him' keep a player like wes brown in the first team. if you're good enough, you'll stay. and this is not saying he is perfect either, like i previously mentioned no-one succeeds 100% with players
I insist wenger is unrivalled in his ability to develop and mould talent into finished articles.
about etim esin, he was a good player, highly skilled no doubt, but due to indiscipline and poor mentoring (the kind you get from a good coach like fergie, capello, maureen or wenger) he never amounted to much at senior level - a case of wasted potential
i just used that example to say that skill/talent alone is insufficient, some other attributes must be molded into a player under the right coash to make the best out of him, sometimes if the player refuses, he may not amount to much - see problems of lee bowyer, jemain pennant
[i]This [/i]gunner is not biased, i will yield to superior arguments/facts anytime and openly say so
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Jackal(m): 1:11am On Aug 24, 2006|
So are u comparing Wes Brown to all ur shiity defenders in Arsenal?
U have surely shot urself in the leg.
Wes Brown is a brilliant defender and thatz why he always keep Henry in check whenever the 2 teams play.
Injury is the major factor why he hasn't pushed his career further than the way it is now.
Ferguson joined Man Utd in 1986 and he won the Premiership in '92 & '93 with the youth academy-Thats 6 years after he joined Man U.
This is Wenger's 10th year at Arsenal and he cannot boast of even 5 players that graduated from the youth system.
Stop making excuses for Wenger.
All Wenger does is to raid other academies and snatch their young players and make "em look like his own developments.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by debosky(m): 1:15am On Aug 24, 2006|
1986 - 2006 = 20 years how many players can u list for fergie? 6
arsenes years at arsenal = 10 years how many players can I list 3 (if you add senderos cuzz he's in the first team now)
average 6/20 = 3/10 which is dead even if u ask me.
we spot talent and develop it, period.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 1:21am On Aug 24, 2006|
@Debosky and other Gunners
I dont hate Arsenal and i wont but i have reservation for Mr wenger.
## All those West Ham guys are already good players but Chelsea only give them Enabling environment to be be better SO I CANT BECAUSE OF THAT SAYS CHELSEA MADE THEM.
## You are talking about discpilne abi? What happen to Quincy Abeiye?
Every player that passes tru Aresenal is made by Wenger, I am tired of that false statements.
If you say the guy can manage resources well, Yes i agree with you.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 1:23am On Aug 24, 2006|
So in 10 years, you only develop 3. He is indeed a good Developer.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Jackal(m): 1:23am On Aug 24, 2006|
Wenger stole Senderos from Servette's(Swiss Club) youth system in December 2002.
He had already capatained Switzerland to the European U-17 championship before he signed for Arsenal.
How can u now name this guy as Wenger's development.
U are very harsh.
BTW, i can list 10 players Ferguson developed in his 20 years at Man Utd which is a very impressive record.
FYI, he has only developed 2 players in his 10 years.
Senderos was not one of Wenger's developments as he was snatched from Servette.
Wenger is a real player developer.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by debosky(m): 1:29am On Aug 24, 2006|
not every player that passes though arsenal was 'made' by wenger
whether you agree or not, lampard only achieved his true potential under mourinho at chelsea, to me that means he was developed under mourinho
in fact while we are on the subject, the only thing coaches/managers do is develop/expose whatever innate/latent/God-given talent that already exists in a player and then help that talent to reach its peak. so doing that means the player was 'made' by the coach, then thats an issue of semantics
the truth is that any good player needs an enabling environment to become the best. the only reason some of those boys playing under the brige in lagos arent the shevas and henrys of today is due to lack of that mentoring/environment. wenger does that well and there's no running away from that.
the issue of discipline is only to show you that raw talent/skill is insufficient to make a player
some players(just as in other fields) do not take correct instruction, besides like i said earlier, we can all make mention of the failings of all these coaches - wenger, fergie, mourinho, etc. no one is 100% successful
jackal please list the 10 i am waiting
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 1:38am On Aug 24, 2006|
I like your courage.
I have launched few threads on Arsenal that your people hardly comment, they ignore it.
[size=16pt]I disagree with your Wengernism.[/size]
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Jackal(m): 1:42am On Aug 24, 2006|
This is ma 10-man list.
Gary Neville(Man Utd)
Phil Neville(Everton FC)
David Beckham(Real Madrid)
Nicky Butt(Newcastle FC)
Paul Scholes(Man Utd)
Ryan Giggs(Man Utd)
Kieran Richardson(Man Utd)
Darren Fletcher(Man Utd)
Wes Brown(Man Utd)
John O'Shea(Man Utd)
I mentioned 10 because all these players have represented their respective national teams at one point or the other.
Majority of them are known globally unlike the ones Wenger really discovered.
Fergie and Wenger ain't mates.
Wenger and Iain Dowie or maybe Stuart Pearce should be on the same bracket in player development schemes.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by pie1ect(m): 2:16am On Aug 24, 2006|
Why am I not surprised by you?
Wenger and Iain Dowie in the same bracket, you do have a sense of humor, I see.
Wenger is the better developer of young talents, no matter where they are discovered. I would argue this issue with you objectively but there's no point as you already have your mind made up.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by rikkyjen(m): 4:58am On Aug 24, 2006|
Why are gonners blinded with jaundiced facts ??
Comparing Wenger developmental Schemes with Fergie's . why do Gonners leave substances and chase shadows with dane guns!!!!!
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by mukina2: 12:46pm On Aug 24, 2006|
well as far as am concern i have 10 solid reasons to love mr wenger
2 beautiful football
6 developing youth
7 health and training
8 spotting talent
9 man management
10 trumping fergie
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 12:58pm On Aug 24, 2006|
Thank you jare.
I think they are the same "Spirit " all over the world.
The man has taken all their mind.
I will call the bluff of Jose anyday.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 1:01pm On Aug 24, 2006|
[size=14pt]Another Spirit of Wengernism![/size]
At the end of the day, they can only mention 2 to 3 players. Imagine!
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 1:06pm On Aug 24, 2006|
I am still waiting for what they will say about Cygan who beside Boumsong, he is most useless defender in the Premiership.
Cygan cannot make the second team of Okomu FC of nigeria.
He has developed well well under Wenger.
He uses french connection to be in Highbury in the first instance.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by mukina2: 1:49pm On Aug 24, 2006|
i thot you said no hating softly, softly now,
wengerism or watever he his a good coach and he deserves to be applauded
debo is right he spots the talent and he develops it is there any problem with that?
look at eboue if it wasnt for wenger and arsenal he wudnt have been so well known and excellent.
wenger is the only coach in england who can play very young boys or am i mistaking?
we bring them up, he's the best in england, fergie can talk and talk, murinho can do the same but above all i dont care
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Akolawole(m): 3:17pm On Aug 24, 2006|
1) Who are the haters here?
Is Jackal a hater? NO
Is BolaOni a hater? NO
Am i a hater? No
Please go and read your own comments, Baggy's one and Mr Vieria, you will see what we call hate.
2) Everybody applaud him when he does Right, he is a good man but i wont be stupid to call him he is god when he is not.
3) He is not the Developer of Talent Period! Maybe he discover Kanu in Owerri
4) If for wenger maybe he will be bus conductor in freetown, you are not serious at all. What club does he play for prior to Arsenal?
5) You are mistaking ma, maybe he has been playing Walcott for full 90 minutes since he joined Arsenal 7 months ago.
6) How on earth would you compare Fergie and Jose with Wenger? European Champions Coaches!
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by LoverBwoy(m): 3:34pm On Aug 24, 2006|
Baba Alex never go to other club's academy to steallook who is talking
Atleast he's bringing them in young and cheap!! younger african players go to europe to get good experience ajax n co with the ultimate goal of going big from there they are usually hungry and more respectful than big headed english players that are driven to practise every weekend
Ask West ham what chelsea's done to their youth team
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by under18(f): 5:27pm On Aug 24, 2006|
out of topic
but una wan to know this South African
United States governor
making hot headlines dat is vistin Africa
Na lie o. Anyone in America pleas o.
to pass this rumour to me o.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by debosky(m): 6:45pm On Aug 24, 2006|
well i still insist wenger develops talent and knows how to bring the best out of players
B t w - how did rossi come to manu? wasn't he 'stolen' as you put it from italy? or was he also 'united from the beginning'?
Wenger has a deeper preference for younger players, because he can then mould them to play the exact way he wants, he wont splash 30million on a veron or a crespo, he'd rather spend that money on a 17yr old walcott or a 20 yr old reyes. while it may not always be successful, i thinkhe still deserves credit for what he has done
Fergie and Wenger cannot be accurately compared with each other on these issues. If y'all want to do that i'll ask you this
how many players did fergie 'develop' from the academy in his first 10 years?
how many players has Wenger 'developed' in his own first 10 years?
A coach who's been on a job for over 20 yrs must have achieved a lot in that period, its not accurate to compare that with someone who has just had 10 or 3 or 2 years, its simply not a fair comparison.
with that i'm not saying one is better than the other.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by Jackal(m): 6:54pm On Aug 24, 2006|
Anutha blind theory.
Fergie developed Paul Scholes, Gary Neville, Phil Neville, David Beckham, Ryan Giggs, Nicky Butt to win the Premiership title in 1992.
Thats 6 quality players in 6 years after Fergie joined Man Utd.
How can u begin to compare Fergie to Wenger in player developement schemes?
Fergie won the 1st & 2nd edition of the Premiership with the bulk of his youth players in 1992 and 93.
Wenger is no match abeg.
I wld rather put Staurt Pearce, Bryan Robson and David O'Leary in Wenger's category.
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by debosky(m): 7:21pm On Aug 24, 2006|
dude i'm done comparing aight? Wenger is good at what he does and there's no question about it, his style and eye for talent is distinct and well known - talent from all over not just english/british like sir alex. thats all i'm gonna say
Wenger is an excellent developer of talent, moulding players to make the best of their natural abilities.
if u wanna debate fergies qualities, well i guess there'll be a thread for that
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by justkunmi(m): 8:35pm On Aug 24, 2006|
No doubt wenger develops players but my issue wit d guy is that he is too tight fisted.I can call him stingy.He doesn't like spendin. He'll rather buy a quack for 20 grand and train him for 3years to mature than buy an already established player for 10 million and reap d benefits immediately. Is he arsenal's manager or accountant?
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by LoverBwoy(m): 8:54pm On Aug 24, 2006|
well i think he was a professor - Economics
do u live for now or the future?
Is he arsenal's manager or accountant?at least he is part of the team , not just an awoof south of the river
|Re: My Reservation For Mr Wenger ! by justkunmi(m): 8:57pm On Aug 24, 2006|
I'm not sayin he should not buy young talents, but they need experienced ones too. I think reyes is d most expensive player he bought.And i think he was around 16 million
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