Ifeann:


Very nice reply...
As an agnostic liekiller will continue to doubt and attack christainity... In Islam agnostics and atheists are beheaded. .

right. And you know why? The only reason is that you people constantly talk biiiiig S-H-I-T about biology and science in general. This has gotten a lot worse in these past years since the USA started exporting a fanatic and nutty form of Christianity to Africa and elsewhere. If you kept your religion where it belongs (that is: in the church and certainly out of science) nobody would be attacking it. I personally respect everybody's right to believe whatever they want. As far as I'm concerned you can worship whatever you want in whichever way you want as long as it doesn't harm others. It doesn't affect me one bit and it's your good right. BUT: when you start with nonsensical and mendacious talk about what you know nothing about or don't want to know anything about, then it does affect me and there will be a reaction. Simple.

Liekiller:


Oh yes, I actually do know what the general scientific global community says about these things. I happen to be a member of it (in biology).

Ok tell me when u are a member of it in physics, meta physics, chemistry, mathematics and all the other grey areas of science which can't still explain the universe. ..

Liekiller:


right. And you know why? The only reason is that you people constantly talk biiiiig S-H-I-T about biology and science in general. This has gotten a lot worse in these past years since the USA started exporting a fanatic and nutty form of Christianity to Africa and elsewhere. If you kept your religion where it belongs (that is: in the church and certainly out of science) nobody would be attacking it. I personally respect everybody's right to believe whatever they want. As far as I'm concerned you can worship whatever you want in whichever way you want as long as it doesn't harm others. It doesn't affect me one bit and it's your good right. BUT: when you start with nonsensical and mendacious talk about what you know nothing about or don't want to know anything about, then it does affect me and there will be a reaction. Simple.

Would it surprise u if i told u the Vatican is one of the biggest supporters of science and education in the world. ..not to mention the leading contributor to charity initiatives in the world. ..

Christainity and science don't need to be mutually exclusive.

Ifeann:


Would it surprise u if i told u the Vatican is one of the biggest supporters of science and education in the world. ..not to mention the leading contributor to charity initiatives in the world. ..

Christainity and science don't need to be mutually exclusive.

While I don't agree with your statement about the Vatican I certainly do agree that religion and science don't need to be mutually exclusive. Millions of non-fanatic Christians worldwide are the living proof. They have no problem accepting evolution and other scientific results as a fact, because they don't take the bible literally.

Ifeann:


Ok tell me when u are a member of it in physics, meta physics, chemistry, mathematics and all the other grey areas of science which can't still explain the universe. ..

your point and/or question is.... what?

Liekiller:


While I don't agree on your statement about the Vatican I certainly do agree that religion and science don't need to be mutually exclusive. Millions of non-fanatic Christians worldwide are the living proof. They have no problem accepting evolution and other scientific results as a fact, because they don't take the bible literally.

That u agree or don't agree is irrelevant. .. Google for this evidence, it is avaliable online. Even Havard university traces its roots to christainity. ..it used to be a seminary school owned by the church.. .. Dont think i am trying to defend Catholicism. .i am often critical of it but the truth must be said.

Again i believe the bible, i also think some stories are allegorical. . Even Jesus spoke in parables and use hyperboles......

U don't expect God to state all the physics, maths chemistry and biology that was used to create life. .it isn't even neccessary to know ask that in such a manner, can all that information even be contained in a billion pages of manuscripts. . It's better we find out ourselves. ..

Again the bible supports the big bang theory, it supports the spherical shape of the earth. . It supports so many other facts that we know now that could not have been known 3000 years ago when the statements were recorded..

Unlike the quran in which several of Mohammed's claim has been disproven, the sun setting in a pool of muddy water, flat shaped earth, camel urine as medicine, dipping files in ur cup to balance the cure with the disease etc. .

I am happy u agree that christainity and science don't need to be mutual exvlusive.... can u now make posts affirming this rather than attacking christains ..

Shalom my friend..

Ifeann:


Would it surprise u if i told u the Vatican is one of the biggest supporters of science and education in the world. ..not to mention the leading contributor to charity initiatives in the world. ..

Christainity and science don't need to be mutually exclusive.

@ifeann, given your above statement about the Vatican, then you should start seeing some reason with liekiller. I remember in 2008 the vatican released a press statement through the chief scientist of their observatory saying the Vatican is open to the idea of ETs, but also saying the existence of ETs should not hamper the believe in God.
If you ask me, that was a quick & smart move by the Vatican. Am very sure or i believe Christianity & science are together , its just misunderstanding .

dabosuker:


@ifeann, given your above statement about the Vatican, then you should start seeing some reason with liekiller. I remember in 2008 the vatican released a press statement through the chief scientist of their observatory saying the Vatican is open to the idea of ETs, but also saying the existence of ETs should not hamper the believe in God.
If you ask me, that was a quick & smart move by the Vatican. Am very sure or i believe Christianity & science are together , its just misunderstanding .

Belive me if ETs existed there should have been at least a mention of it in the bible.. we haven't seen ET and we may probably never confirm their existence. ..either way the bible and science are not enemies.. that's my take on the topic

Liekiller:

Oh yes, I actually do know what the general scientific global community says about these things. I happen to be a member of it (in biology).

Liekiller:


My ignorance in what please? If you consider a PhD in biology nauseating ignorance then I guess that's your problem, not mine. See how you start foaming from your mouth and showering hatred on me because I don't give in to your attempts to waste my time posting stuff that is published and accessible to whoever wants to learn about it. As I have said before: if you argue against evolution (which happens to be pure biology), then the burden of proof is on YOU to provide hard BIOLOGICAL evidence in support of your point. Hating me doesn't disprove evolution, sorry.

Lol. All you have done is copy and paste from evil bible then rant about having a doctorate in biology. How do you think anyone is going to take you seriously? Singing about your supposed higher knowledge of these things when you have demonstrated none here. Or should I start going about my own credentials? Do you think shouting about a doctorate will give credence to the nothingness you have shown so far? Doctorate I hear.

And the burden is on you to give a single scrap of evidence of common descent here since you spout it as fact, but you have given nothing but referrals to imaginary works so far. Makes me think you are afraid of having any serious conversation for fear of embarrassment of your very educated self.

Very well Dr. Liekiller, stick to copying and pasting evil bible. When you want to have a real scientific conversation inform people who are interested.

Ifeann:



That u agree or don't agree is irrelevant. .. Google for this evidence, it is avaliable online. Even Havard university traces its roots to christainity. ..it used to be a seminary school owned by the church.. .. Dont think i am trying to defend Catholicism. .i am often critical of it but the truth must be said.

Again i believe the bible, i also think some stories are allegorical. . Even Jesus spoke in parables and use hyperboles......

U don't expect God to state all the physics, maths chemistry and biology that was used to create life. .it isn't even neccessary to know ask that in such a manner, can all that information even be contained in a billion pages of manuscripts. . It's better we find out ourselves. ..

Again the bible supports the big bang theory, it supports the spherical shape of the earth. . It supports so many other facts that we know now that could not have been known 3000 years ago when the statements were recorded..

Unlike the quran in which several of Mohammed's claim has been disproven, the sun setting in a pool of muddy water, flat shaped earth, camel urine as medicine, dipping files in ur cup to balance the cure with the disease etc. .

I am happy u agree that christainity and science don't need to be mutual exvlusive.... can u now make posts affirming this rather than attacking christains ..

Shalom my friend..

Certainly in the long history of its existence the Catholic church has been involved in education, most notably in the "education" and oppression of African "savages" at the time (and all too often even today). The same "poor savages" who now depend on their "charity" due to having had their culture, economy and societies destroyed by this charitable organisation. Don't even get me started about it

Either way, I have the impression that your main reason to participate in this discussion is to bash Islam every now and then? How does that go together with your statements earlier in this thread please?

Liekiller:



Certainly in the long history of its existence the Catholic church has been involved in education, most notably in the "education" and oppression of African "savages" at the time (and all too often even today). The same "poor savages" who now depend on their "charity" due to having had their culture, economy and societies destroyed by this charitable organisation. Don't even get me started about it

Either way, I have the impression that your main reason to participate in this discussion is to bash Islam every now and then? How does that go together with your statements earlier in this thread please?

If those terrible wicked white men didn't come with the gospel and education u Africans would still be blinded by ur superstitions And heathen traditions or perhaps beheaded for not converting to Islam like how usman dan fidio did in the North of Nigeria. .

Dude i make it clear i detest Islam. .

Joshthefirst:
Lol. All you have done is copy and paste from evil bible then rant about having a doctorate in biology. How do you think anyone is going to take you seriously? Singing about your supposed higher knowledge of these things when you have demonstrated none here. Or should I start going about my own credentials? Do you think shouting about a doctorate will give credence to the nothingness you have shown so far? Doctorate I hear.

And the burden is on you to give a single scrap of evidence of common descent here since you spout it as fact, but you have given nothing but referrals to imaginary works so far. Makes me think you are afraid of having any serious conversation for fear of embarrassment of your very educated self.

Very well Dr. Liekiller, stick to copying and pasting evil bible. When you want to have a real scientific conversation inform people who are interested.

The fellow is not a dr. I discuss with academics on a regular basis.. he doesnt sound like one... no offense drliekiller but i ain't buying it buddy..maybe u should give me an idea on what ur research paper was on..

Joshthefirst:
Lol. All you have done is copy and paste from evil bible then rant about having a doctorate in biology. How do you think anyone is going to take you seriously? Singing about your supposed higher knowledge of these things when you have demonstrated none here. Or should I start going about my own credentials? Do you think shouting about a doctorate will give credence to the nothingness you have shown so far? Doctorate I hear.

And the burden is on you to give a single scrap of evidence of common descent here since you spout it as fact, but you have given nothing but referrals to imaginary works so far. Makes me think you are afraid of having any serious conversation for fear of embarrassment of your very educated self.

Very well Dr. Liekiller, stick to copying and pasting evil bible. When you want to have a real scientific conversation inform people who are interested.

I mentioned that because I was ASKED. But yeah, just keep spewing your hatred about everything. People like you are another reason to turn my back on religion. I haven't seen you produce anything but vitriolic hatred here that is so characteristic for your kind, so what exactly do you want? Go read Nature, Science etc. if you want science. IT'S ALL PUBLISHED!!! I have NO obligation at all to waste hours and hours re-typing published research here, and I certainly won't. So why don't you publish your own papers in order to disprove it since you claim you can with your brilliant credentials? I'll certainly read it once it's in Nature

so if you want to check out some of the imaginary works after all feel free to go to
http://www.sciencedirect.com
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/
etc. etc.
Then type "evolution" in the search bar, or whatever else you can't resist learning about.

Denying that the research even exists is SO ridiculous

Ifeann:


The fellow is not a dr. I discuss with academics on a regular basis.. he doesnt sound like one... no offense drliekiller but i ain't buying it buddy..maybe u should give me an idea on what ur research paper was on..

Firstly, I'm not a "fellow", and secondly I'm a physical anthropologist, currently postdoc at a university in the diaspora. More specifically: bachelor in general biology (included math, physics, chemistry, biochemistry, molecular biology, genetics, zoology, botany, evolution, microbiology etc.), then masters in physical anthropology (included primatology, comparative anatomy, human anatomy, osteology, primate evolution etc. etc.) and archaeology and palaeontology, then PhD in physical anthropology. Published a few peer-reviewed and other papers too which I don't care to quote here since my identity is attached to them. No, I don't really care if you believe it or not, but it's the truth. So, let's get another dose of Joshthefirst toxine

Ifeann:


If those terrible wicked white men didn't come with the gospel and education u Africans would still be blinded by ur superstitions And heathen traditions or perhaps beheaded for not converting to Islam like how usman dan fidio did in the North of Nigeria. .

Dude i make it clear i detest Islam. .

aaah now your true colours are shining through. Another American racist don show ooo

Liekiller:



aaah now your true colours are shining through. Another American racist don show ooo

I am not American. .. i am not a racist, i am christain. . My roots are proudly African.

Liekiller:


Firstly, I'm not a "fellow", and secondly I'm a physical anthropologist, currently postdoc at a university in the diaspora. More specifically: bachelor in general biology (included math, physics, chemistry, biochemistry, molecular biology, genetics, zoology, botany, evolution, microbiology etc.), then masters in physical anthropology (included primatology, comparative anatomy, human anatomy, osteology, primate evolution etc. etc.) and archaeology and palaeontology, then PhD in physical anthropology. Published a few peer-reviewed and other papers too which I don't care to quote here since my identity is attached to them. No, I don't really care if you believe it or not, but it's the truth. So, let's get another dose of Joshthefirst toxine

I won't even bother to doubt you. . U may as well be a professor of biology but ur assumed intellect is not reflected in the construct of the statements u have until now made. .. starting with the verbatim copy and paste from that silly website. .. that's unapologetic plagiarism man. .a post doc like u should know that

Ifeann:


I am not American. .. i am not a racist, i am christain. . My roots are proudly African.

oh right, so why then did you refer to the readers as "u Africans"?

Ifeann:


I won't even bother to doubt you. . U may as well be a professor of biology but ur assumed intellect is not reflected in the construct of the statements u have until now made. .. starting with the verbatim copy and paste from that silly website. .. that's unapologetic plagiarism man. .a post doc like u should know that

LOL now you definitely stopped making sense. "plagiarism"? haha. So if I post a link to a newspaper article it's plagiarism? do I have to go research and photograph a bomb attack myself to post it here?

Liekiller:


oh right, so why then did you refer to the readers as "u Africans"?

I was under the impression u are African and the white folks came for u Africans with the gospel and their education.. what's the confusion. . Perhaps i should have said "africans" i only added "u" to emphasize u were liberated as well with other Africans. ..

Ifeann:


I was under the impression u are African and the white folks came for u Africans with the gospel and their education.. what's the confusion. . Perhaps i should have said "africans" i only added "u" to emphasize u were liberated as well with other Africans. ..

I would expect you to say WE Africans if you actually are one. Apart from that your statement is just disgusting. Obviously you are not aware of the devastating consequences colonialism (of which forcing Christianity on Africa was a major part) had on the continent

Liekiller:


I would expect you to say WE Africans if you actually are one. Apart from that your statement is just disgusting. Obviously you are not aware of the devastating consequences colonialism (of which forcing Christianity on Africa was a major part) had on the continent

We don't live in a perfect world. ..

Ifeann:


We don't live in a perfect world. ..

ok I see. As I said, your true colurs are shining through. We live in a cruel and imperfect world indeed if you defend and praise what happened in those times and is still affecting Africa badly today. Where's your "Christian love"??

Liekiller:


ok I see. As I said, your true colurs are shining through. We live in a cruel and imperfect world indeed if you defend and praise what happened in those times and is still affecting Africa badly today. Where's your "Christian love"??

I am not just a christain i am also a realist...
I don't praise what happened to Africans but i understand why it happened. .. infact Africans have been relatively lucky. .
Every civilization has its share of sad events case in point slavery for the africans, genocide for the native americans...holocaust for the jews, Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the Japanese, Britian and indeed europe has had countless wars for resources and otherwise, Spanish inquisition. .etc...its endless... humans tend to be very chaotic lifeform.. however atheism and attacking christainity is not the solution nor does it help on the least. ..

Africans have just refused to develop their society...

Ifeann:


I am not just a christain i am also a realist...
I don't praise what happened to Africans but i understand why it happened. .. infact Africans have been relatively lucky. .
Every civilization has its share of sad events case in point slavery for the africans, genocide for the native americans...holocaust for the jews, Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the Japanese, Britian and indeed europe has had countless wars for resources and otherwise, Spanish inquisition. .etc...its endless... humans tend to be very chaotic lifeform.. however atheism and attacking christainity is not the solution nor does it help on the least. ..

Africans have just refused to develop their society...

The root of Africa's undervelopment today IS colonialism. The destruction of entire societies and cultures was by no means a "liberation", and it's a terrible thing to say that. I'm not denying that a lot has gone wrong after it ended too, but the root lingers on and doesn't help matters. The religious madness we see today is a symptom as well as a cause of underdevelopment. I certainly don't say atheism is the solution to this. It's not, and it's not even my goal to change anyone's belief. But: increasing fanaticism is a huge worry nowadays. Ironically, this variety of Christianity is strongly supported, imported and financed by outlandish churches in the US. So, according to you the "liberation" continues. And I can tell you I'm not happy about it.

Liekiller:


The root of Africa's undervelopment today IS colonialism. The destruction of entire societies and cultures was by no means a "liberation", and it's a terrible thing to say that. I'm not denying that a lot has gone wrong after it ended too, but the root lingers on and doesn't help matters. The religious madness we see today is a symptom as well as a cause of underdevelopment. I certainly don't say atheism is the solution to this. It's not, and it's not even my goal to change anyone's belief. But: increasing fanaticism is a huge worry nowadays. Ironically, this variety of Christianity is strongly supported, imported and financed by outlandish churches in the US. So, according to you the "liberation" continues. And I can tell you I'm not happy about it.

To be honest I wanted to have a challenging, intelligent and lively conversation with you but several things u say just don't make sense.

For example, "But: increasing fanaticism is a huge worry nowadays. Ironically, this variety of Christianity is strongly supported, imported and financed by outlandish churches in the US"

What are u even taking about, us churches financing nigerian churches or did I misunderstand u.. Pls elaborate.

Ifeann:



To be honest I wanted to have a challenging, intelligent and lively conversation with you but several things u say just don't make sense.

For example, "But: increasing fanaticism is a huge worry nowadays. Ironically, this variety of Christianity is strongly supported, imported and financed by outlandish churches in the US"

What are u even taking about, us churches financing nigerian churches or did I misunderstand u.. Pls elaborate.

I don't have time to go into details right now so let me just provide you a few links for the time being so you can come to your own conclusions

http://www.politicalresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/10/Colonizing-African-Values.pdf

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jul/24/evangelical-christians-homophobia-africa

http://www.publiceye.org/publications/globalizing-the-culture-wars/pdf/africa-full-report.pdf

Ifeann:


[s]Chiedu7 u are right. . Mohammed thought the earth was flat. .u can Google for the hadiths that show this error in thinking by the prophet. .this is why Muslims are commanded to face the kabba in mecca during prayer so as not to point their butt.s to it. . However the joke is on Muslims because the earth is spherical hence their butt.s are pointed to it regardless..[/s]

Question
I heard that Ibn Taymiyah made statements to the effect that the Earth is round. Doesn’t the Qur’ân indicate in many places that the Earth is flat, as mentioned by Ibn Kathîr, since it describes the Earth with the words sutihat and muddat? I am referring especially to Sûrah al-Ghâshiyah, verse 20 and Sûrah al-Ra`d, verse 3. What was Ibn Taymiyah’s reason back then for believing the Earth is round? Where was his proof from the Qur’ân and Sunnah? Back then, there could be no other proof, since the shape of the Earth would have been a matter of the Unseen. The Earth was not fully explored back then and no one could have seen it from space.

Answer:

The term “sutihat” has many shades of meaning that are all quite literal, among them: “to be spread out, leveled, made smooth, unrolled, flattened”.

The term “madda” simply means to extend or stretch.

We must believe that the Earth has been extended and spread out. This is what Allah says. However, we are not obliged to know how Allah has done so unless he specifically informs us of this. We are likewise not accountable to know the exact nature of this spreading out and extension. We should leave knowledge of that to Allah. It would definitely be wrong for us to think that Allah cannot spread out and extend a spherical surface however He sees fit. Allah does whatever He pleases.

You should be able to see quite clearly from the above discussion that Allah does not say anywhere in the Qur’ân that the Earth is flat. This is just one way of understanding these verses. Some people have merely inferred the flatness of the Earth from these verses. Therefore, it is just their opinion that the Earth is flat. Our opinions can be right or wrong. We are obliged to believe everything that the Qur’ân says. However, we are not obliged to believe someone’s mere opinion about what it means.

Here is what Ibn Kathîr says about Sûrah al-Ghâshiyah, verse 20:
“And at the earth, how it is outspread” …meaning, how it has been spread out (busitat), extended (muddat) and made smooth (muhhidat). Thus, He directs the Bedouin to consider what he himself witnesses. His camel that he rides upon, the sky that is above his head, the mountain that faces him, and the earth that is under him, all of this is proof of the power of the Creator and Maker of these things. These things should lead him to see that He is the Lord, the Most Great, the Creator, the Owner, and the Controller of everything. Therefore, He is the God other than Whom none deserves to be worshipped.

Nowhere does Ibn Kathir discuss the physical nature of the Earth in his commentary of this verse. He makes it clear that Allah is not doing so either. He says that Allah “directs the Bedouin to consider what he himself witnesses”. There is no geology or biology lesson going on here. Allah is merely instructing us to look at what we see before us. He is not describing to us how He created the camel or the Earth. He is just telling us to look at these matters and ponder them.

With respect to Sûrah al-Ra`d, verse 3, Ibn Kathîr says:

“And it is He Who spread out (madda) the Earth” …made it spacious in length and width (ja`alahâ muttasa`ah mumtaddah fî al-tûl wa al-`ard). Allah has placed on the earth firm mountains and made rivers, springs and water streams run through it, so that the various kinds of fruits and plants of every color, shape, taste and scent are watered with this water.

Again, no mention is made that the Earth is flat. He merely understands from the term “madda” that Allah has made the Earth spacious for us. This is, indeed, all that we can honestly understand from this verse without our delving into unnecessary speculation and interpretation.

Even if Ibn Kathîr did hold the view that the Earth was flat, that world merely have been his opinion, since it is not directly stated by Allah anywhere in the Qur’ân. It would not mean that Muslims are obliged to believe the flatness of the Earth as an article of their faith. However, Ibn Kathîr does not mention anything about the Earth being flat in his commentary on these two verses, since he did not see these two verses as indicating the flatness of the Earth.

As for your request for Ibn Taymiyah’s statements on the shape of the Earth, he states quite clearly in a number of places that it is round.

For instance, he writes: “Know that there is agreement that the Earth is spherical of shape and water covers most of it.” [Majmû` al-Fatâwâ (5/150). See also: Majmû` al-Fatâwâ (6/546-567)]

Please keep in mind that even if Ibn Taymiyah had thought that the Earth was flat, that would just have been his opinion on the matter. We would not be obliged to agree with him. We are only obliged to believe what is clearly stated in the Qur’ân and Sunnah.

Ibn Taymiyah is merely mentioning the scientific knowledge of his day. He is not making a statement of religious beliefs nor is he discussing the Unseen. The shape of the Earth was determined then as it is now – by human observation.

(However, Ibn Taymiyah argues that the celestial orbits are round on the authority of the Qur’ân, Sunnah, and `Ijmâ`. [See: Majmû` al-Fatâwâ (5/150)])

In fact, Ibn Taymiyah makes a clear mistake when he says: “As for the other side of the Earth, it is completely covered by ocean, so there are no humans and the like over there.” [Majmû` al-Fatâwâ (6/565)] However, he is not quoting this from the Qur’ân and Sunnah. He is again merely stating what was believed at the time in which he lived. People knew that the world was round. However, they did not know about the Americas, Australia, or Antarctica. They only knew about Eurasia and Africa. They just assumed that the rest of the world was one great ocean.

This is not a problem in his religion, since belief in the existence of the Americas is no more a tenet of our faith than is our belief about the shape of the Earth. It is merely a question of geography. It has no bearing on faith whatsoever.

It would be fair to ask why Ibn Taymiyah, who was clearly concerned with religious matters and not scientific ones, would care to discuss the shape of the Earth at all? The answer is that in these passages that we quoted to you, Ibn Taymiyah is concerned with something that is indeed a matter of faith. He is arguing with people who claim that Allah’s throne cannot be above the Earth since the Earth is round. His purpose is to refute them by demonstrating that Allah’s throne can indeed be above the Earth even though the Earth is undoubtedly round.

You also ask how people back then knew that the Earth was round when they had not explored all of the Earth, never traveled around it, and never departed from its surface.

There were many ways they came to know this. The most obvious of these is the existence of a horizon. Things do not just appear smaller and smaller as they stretch off endlessly in the distance. This is what we would see if the Earth was flat, and it would be a strange sight to us indeed. What we actually see is that things suddenly disappear at the horizon. When we are standing on a flat plain, the horizon is crisp and clean in all directions. The reason for this is that the horizon is the place where the curve of the Earth dips below our line of sight.

Moreover, the top of a distant tall mountain might be seen peeking out from just beyond the horizon. As we approach it, we can see lower and lower down the mountainside. If the Earth was flat, we would see the entire mountain from the base to the summit getting larger and larger as we approach it. However, we see the summit first. A sailor approaching a mountainous coast sees this phenomenon most clearly. He first sees the mountaintops, then as he approaches the coast, he can see lower down the mountains.

People also observed that the angle of a shadow at the same time of day from different cities was different. The reason for this is that the rays of the Sun are hitting the Earth at different angles because the Earth’s surface is curved. From this observation, ancient people not only realized that the Earth was round, but they were actually able to calculate the size of the Earth with surprising accuracy.

Ancient people also noticed that during a lunar eclipse – which occurs when Earth is directly between the Sun and the Moon – the shadow of the Earth on the Moon is circular. They realized from this observation that the Earth was a sphere, since only a sphere could cast such a circular shadow.

Therefore, the shape of the Earth was a well-known observable fact since ancient times. It was not a matter of the Unseen.

This refutes your nonsense allegation against prophet of Islam. Quran NEVER said Earth is flat. Now turn your attention @ op and leave muslims alone in this thread.

Ifeann:


I am not American. .. i am not a racist, i am christain. . My roots are proudly African.

Ifeann:


I was under the impression u are African and the white folks came for u Africans with the gospel and their education.. what's the confusion. . Perhaps i should have said "africans" i only added "u" to emphasize u were liberated as well with other Africans. ..

Liekiller:
aaah now your true colours are shining through. Another American racist don show ooo

U dey mind her . She's full of deceptions. She's "maradona" from Finland Abakaliki

Liekiller:


I would expect you to say WE Africans if you actually are one. Apart from that your statement is just disgusting. Obviously you are not aware of the devastating consequences colonialism (of which forcing Christianity on Africa was a major part) had on the continent

That's it. She's been twisting Bible all weeks that it has nothing to do with slavery. Now she said we dont live in perfect world. That's, she's agreeing that christianity has everything to do with slavery.

Liekiller: The root of Africa's undervelopment today IS colonialism.

http://www.politicalresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/10/Colonizing-African-Values.pdf

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jul/24/evangelical-christians-homophobia-africa

http://www.publiceye.org/publications/globalizing-the-culture-wars/pdf/africa-full-report.pdf

That's it. I came across one of these a yr ago, too. Problem i have with her is denying links btw Christianity and worldwide slavery still hunting us today. Well, I am not here to bash Christianity nor do i hate it. Only when fanatics attack my religion they see my other side.

Liekiller:


I mentioned that because I was ASKED. But yeah, just keep spewing your hatred about everything. People like you are another reason to turn my back on religion. I haven't seen you produce anything but vitriolic hatred here that is so characteristic for your kind, so what exactly do you want? Go read Nature, Science etc. if you want science. IT'S ALL PUBLISHED!!! I have NO obligation at all to waste hours and hours re-typing published research here, and I certainly won't. So why don't you publish your own papers in order to disprove it since you claim you can with your brilliant credentials? I'll certainly read it once it's in Nature

so if you want to check out some of the imaginary works after all feel free to go to
http://www.sciencedirect.com
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/
etc. etc.
Then type "evolution" in the search bar, or whatever else you can't resist learning about.

Denying that the research even exists is SO ridiculous

Lol. Vitriolic hatred? Nawa ooo. Now you even accuse me of hatred. OK. Goodbye.

Empiree:

U dey mind her . She's full of deceptions. She's "maradona" from Finland Abakaliki

That's it. She's been twisting Bible all weeks that it has nothing to do with slavery. Now she said we dont live in perfect world. That's, she's agreeing that christianity has everything to do with slavery.


http://www.politicalresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/10/Colonizing-African-Values.pdf

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jul/24/evangelical-christians-homophobia-africa

http://www.publiceye.org/publications/globalizing-the-culture-wars/pdf/africa-full-report.pdf

That's it. I came across one of these a yr ago, too. Problem i have with her is denying links btw Christianity and worldwide slavery still hunting us today. Well, I am not here to bash Christianity nor do i hate it. Only when fanatics attack my religion they see my other side.

To be fair, islam had a more negative history with slavery in Africa.


We should be careful in pointing fingers at religions. Christianity, islam and Judaism have had people do wrong in the name of religion.


I am of the opinion that we theists (christians and muslims) should avoid religion bashing threads like these. Little good comes out of it.

[quote author=AllNaijaBlogger post=30902335]

To be fair, islam had a more negative history with slavery in Africa.

Don't let African Americans hear this. You will be laughed at

We should be careful in pointing fingers at religions. Christianity, islam and Judaism have had people do wrong in the name of religion.

Tell this to your girl friend, ifean

I am of the opinion that we theists (christians and muslims) should avoid religion bashing threads like these. Little good comes out of it.

Again, this is for her and chiedu7. Did i start pointing fingers at Christianity here?. Do yourself a favor go through this thread and see for yourself. Oh wait o, i didn't see you condemned them for nuisance they constitute on NL. You only viewed and commot.

Look at my profile, is there any anti-Christianity thread there?. Compare mine to those fanatics see who breed hatreds