johnydon22:
that means that god have fore-knowledge of whatever anybody is going to do right?

E.g. A woman prophesied that America is not going to hold the next elections, if it happens that it comes to pass, has she got anything to do with the whole process?

Misogynist2014:
E.g. A woman prophesied that America is not going to hold the next elections, if it happens that it comes to pass, has she got anything to do with the whole process?

But yet the woman can be wrong and the election still will hold... so can god still be wrong when he fore-knows ur actions?

johnydon22:


But yet the woman can be wrong and the election still will hold... so can god still be wrong when he fore-knows ur actions?

No

Misogynist2014:
No

very good... And you believe god fore-knows everything billions of years before they even happen right? omni-scient

The earth might be billions of years old, no qualms, but every living thing is less than 7000 yrs old.

johnydon22:
very good... And you believe god fore-knows everything billions of years before they even happen right? omni-scient

Misogynist2014:
The earth might be billions of years old, no qualms, but every living thing is less than 7000 yrs old.

am not asking about the age of the earth... am asking about god being omniscient.. read my post again i said..
[size=20] And you believe god knows everything billions of years before they happen right? [/size]

But what is this you are saying every living being is less that 7000 years Please dont even bring it up, its embarrassing..

johnydon22:

am not asking about the age of the earth... am asking about god being omniscient.. read my post again i said..
[size=20] And you believe god knows everything billions of years before they happen right? [/size]

But what is this you are saying every living being is less that 7000 years Please dont even bring it up, its embarrassing..

I'm a creationist, but I differ on the age of earth, not necessarily up to billions, it can be thousands, but certainly not in the 6 days. As for your question, [size=20]Yes, Johnydon22 [/size]

Misogynist2014:
I'm a creationist, but I differ on the age of earth, not necessarily up to billions, it can be thousands, but certainly not in the 6 days. As for your question, I don't know.

Very good you admit you don't know let me now put the questions to rest..

Now about your creationism, You believe the earth may be up to billions of year not created in 6 days. . do i take it to mean that you disbelief the biblical account?

Misogynist2014:
I'm a creationist, but I differ on the age of earth, not necessarily up to billions, it can be thousands, but certainly not in the 6 days. As for your question, [size=20]Yes, Johnydon22 [/size]

Hhmmm you modified it.. alright your answer is YES. ok..

Now i take it to mean god already knew adam and eve will eat the fruit billions of years before creating them right?

One thing is certain in life God gave us the option of choosing always, He never made us to be zombies.

johnydon22:


Hhmmm you modified it.. alright your answer is YES. ok..

Now i take it to mean the [size=16]LORD[/size] already knew adam and eve will eat the fruit billions of years before creating them right?

You are going in circles, this question has already been answered in the post.

johnydon22:


Hhmmm you modified it.. alright your answer is YES. ok..

Now i take it to mean God already knew adam and eve will eat the fruit billions of years before creating them right?

That God knew is the main point, the time frame is inconsequential.

Misogynist2014:
That God knew is the main point, the time frame is inconsequential.

Ok he knew, and he cannot be wrong which means adam and eve cannot choose to do another thing instead because if they did anything else then god fore-knowledge was wrong.. So now tell me where is the choice is this scenario?

It is only the non-blacks and some grafted animals, grafted plants, the so called extra-terrestrial beings that are less than 7000 years old. even all the non-blacks are grafted humanbeings.
If GOD knows what will happen in a billion years, i do not know, i do know for a fact that he knows what exactly will happen, or how it will happen for the next 25000 years. it is from this knowledge of 25000 years that prophesies in the books or from the prophets comes from.
Blacks are older than the universe itself, much older.

Misogynist2014:
The earth might be billions of years old, no qualms, but every living thing is less than 7000 yrs old.

johnydon22:


Ok he knew, and he cannot be wrong which means adam and eve cannot choose to do another thing instead because if they did anything else then god fore-knowledge was wrong.. So now tell me where is the choice is this scenario?

This question was also answered, even specially. '''' The classic objection to this position is that God’s foreknowledge and foreordination
of the fall damages man’s freedom. In other words, if God created mankind with full
knowledge of the impending fall into sin, how can man be responsible for his sin? The
best answer to this question can be found in the Westminster Confession of Faith
chapter III:
“God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely,
and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God
the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty
or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established” ''''

Misogynist2014:
------
-----
“God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely,
and unchangeably ordain [size=20]whatsoever[/size] comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God
the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty
or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established” ''''

Let me not ask a question first and see if you even grasp what this means..

In your own words can you tell me what this post you posted above means?

johnydon22:
Let me not ask a question first and see if you even grasp what this means..

In your own words can you tell me what this post you posted above means?

This question has also been answered. ''' What this is saying is that God ordains future events in such a way that our freedom
and the working of secondary causes (e.g., laws of nature) are preserved.
Theologians call this “concurrence.” God’s sovereign will flows concurrently with our
free choices in such a way that our free choices always result in the carrying out of
God’s will (by “free choices” we mean that our choices are not coerced by outside
influences).'''

Misogynist2014:
This question has also been answered. ''' What this is saying is that God ordains future events in such a way that our freedom
and the working of secondary causes (e.g., laws of nature) are preserved.
Theologians call this “concurrence.” God’s sovereign will flows concurrently with our
free choices in such a way that our free choices always result in the carrying out of
God’s will (by “free choices” we mean that our choices are not coerced by outside
influences).'''

Do you really understand what the bolded means?

johnydon22:
Do you really understand what the bolded means?

Yes! It means God's will bends to our will in a way both are preserved, not the other way.

Misogynist2014:
Yes! It means God's will bends to our will in a way both are preserved, not the other way.

Ok you are implying that whatever we do automatically becomes god's will which means their is no fore-knowledge of our actions right?

johnydon22:


Ok you are implying that whatever we do automatically becomes god's will which means their is no fore-knowledge of our actions right?

I (my views and ideas) mean that I bend to your will in a way that both wills are preserved. E.g. If Atiku bends to the will of Buhari, in a way in which Atiku's will of being president in the next four years is preserved.

Misogynist2014:
I (my views and ideas) mean that I bend to your will in a way that both wills are preserved. E.g. If Atiku bends to the will of Buhari, in a way in which Atiku's will of being president in the next four years is preserved.

but this doesnt mean Buhari know what atiku will do before he does it...gerrit it now?

So now i take it you mean god doesn't know what we will do or fore-planned it.. he bends his own will to suite our decisions right?

johnydon22:
but this doesnt mean Buhari know what atiku will do before he does it...gerrit it now?

So now i take it you mean god doesn't know what we will do or fore-planned it.. he bends his own will to suite our decisions right?

Job 28:12 But where shall wisdom be found? and where is the place of understanding?

Misogynist2014:
Job 28:12 But where shall wisdom be found? and where is the place of understanding?

Lol... You see, you dont even really understand what is it you have been yapping all day long.. You move from asserting that he knows everything and anything anybody will do here

That God knew is the main point, the time frame is inconsequential.

now as our questions progressed you abandoned that idea and adopted that he bends his will to whatever man does..here

Yes! It means God's will bends to our will in a way both are preserved, not
the other way.

which one is it exactly?

Does he know what we will do before we do them, which means he already planned everything.. both your good and bad actions?

or

He doesnt know but bend his his own will to ours. which means he didnt plan anything or fore-knows anything we do but reconciles everything we choose to his own will?

You still don't make any sense at all, just dribble around contradictions thats all..

johnydon22:
Lol... You see, you dont even really understand what is it you have been yapping all day long.. You move from asserting that he knows everything and anything anybody will do here

now as our questions progressed you abandoned that idea and adopted that he bends his will to whatever man does..here
which one is it exactly?

Does he know what we will do before we do them, which means he already planned everything.. both your good and bad actions?

or

He doesnt know but bend his his own will to ours. which means he didnt plan anything or fore-knows anything we do but reconciles everything we choose to his own will?

You still don't make any sense at all, just dribble around contradictions thats all..

OK. A better example is a lion who wants to eat a rat and dog at the same time and sees that the dog is after the rat, therefore, he allowed the dog to have its will, he then ran after the dog, pounced on it and ate it. The will of the dog was preserved, so was his.

Misogynist2014:
OK. A better example is a lion who wants to eat a rat and dog at the same time and sees that the dog is after the rat, therefore, he allowed the dog to have its will, he then ran after the dog, pounced on it and ate it. The will of the dog was preserved, so was his.

The dog may decide not to eat the rat (freewill) and the lion is not 100% sure the dog will eat the rat, even if he is sure the dog can still choose not to their by the lion is wrong.
what i want to hear from you is.

[size=20] Does god know what we will do before we do them? [/size] Yes or No?

johnydon22:
The dog may decide not to eat the rat (freewill) and the lion is not 100% sure the dog will eat the rat, even if he is sure the dog can still choose not to their by the lion is wrong.
what i want to hear from you is.

[size=20] Does god know what we will do before we do them? [/size] Yes or No?

This argument makes no sense if He doesn't or what exactly have we been discussing?

johnydon22:
The dog may decide not to eat the rat (freewill) and the lion is not 100% sure the dog will eat the rat, even if he is sure the dog can still choose not to their by the lion is wrong.
what i want to hear from you is.

[size=20] Does god know what we will do before we do them? [/size] Yes or No?

I am not talking about freewill but its preservation.

Misogynist2014:
This argument makes no sense if He doesn't or what exactly have we been discussing?

Exactly what am talking about.. If he knows exactly what you will do (and you cannot do the contrary) is that really freewill?

Misogynist2014:
I am not talking about freewill but its preservation.

how can they be freewill when all your actions have already been fore-planned?

johnydon22:

how can they be freewill when all your actions have already been fore-planned?

It is foreknown, not fore planned.

Misogynist2014:
It is foreknown, not fore planned.

And this fore-knowledge cannot be wrong right?