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Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? - Politics - Nairaland

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Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 3:26pm On Apr 18, 2015
Let's first establish a characteristic of the current PDP government:

-It is a government led by a member of the minority , an Ijaw man, therefore I believe we can say it is incapable of demagoguery.

Now, let's establish a characteristic of the incoming APC government:


-It will be led by members of the largest and second largest ethnic groups in Nigeria, Buhari and Osibanjo, therefore we can say it has a fair potential of being demagoguery.

Finally, let us recall the news about APC meeting to zone political appointments even as important as those of ministers to certain regions, and in effect, tribes of the country. https://www.nairaland.com/2263098/apc-zones-senate-presidency-ncentral

So here is the question:
If this zoning is effected, and political appointments are allocated mainly to the president and vice president's regions of the country, what else will there be to redeem the incoming government from the accusations of nepotism and ochlocracy?

Background info:
Just like the incoming government, I was also a supporter of GEJ's government when it was coming in, and even though GEJ's government failed eventually I still maintain it's one of the best governments we have had, and it took a while before it started failing. Now, moving on to Buhari's incoming government, I am scared it will fail before it even begins the service of governing, by choosing to be ochlocratic rather than democratic. I'll give articles explaining my concern in the following posts.

3 Likes

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 3:27pm On Apr 18, 2015
The mob mentality

"Easily, the biggest threat to consorted social efforts is the "mob mentality" that is inherent in the human condition.

In a democratic state, opposition plays the role of checks against the mob, even the righteous mob.

Currently, in America, jumping on the 'Band Wagon' following the popular agenda or candidate, overzealous persecution of opposing or progressive ideas or beliefs, etc.; is pretty much a way of both social and political life. Add this to unreasonable power and money influence, and the agendas brought forward by the 'hungry mob' wield an unfair advantage over reason." R Marcum


In Nigeria there is a worrying trend evolving, and it started when the SE/SS voted against the incoming government. Instead of respect on the part of fellow Buhari supporters, there was disdain. The disdain reveals a possible trend:

Democracy {where everyone's decisions are respected} -> Ochlocracy {Rule by a majority of the people, rather than most competent} -> Majoritarianism {belief that because one is a member of the majority your decisions are most important}


How to check this? Reason.
I will be satisfied with this government if it listens to the reason of the opposition -because i'm sure the opposition will reject this zoning- and bases it's government on competence. Otherwise i'm afraid this government is also doomed to failure.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 3:28pm On Apr 18, 2015
Brief intro to Ochlocracy

Ochlocracy or mob rule is the rule of government by mob or a mass of people, or the intimidation of legitimate authorities. It is a pejorative for majoritarianism. Ochlocracy (rule of the general populace) is democracy (rule of the people) spoiled by demagoguery, "tyranny of the majority", and the rule of passion over reason, just as oligarchy (rule of a few) is aristocracy (rule of the best) spoiled by corruption, and tyranny is monarchy spoiled by lack of virtue. Ochlocracy is synonymous in meaning and usage to the modern, informal term "mobocracy."

Ochlocracy is almost never provided for in constitutions. Most frequently this despotism of the multitude follows in the wake of a revolution which overthrows the power of kings or of nobles; it establishes itself arbitrarily, without rule, and without any regard for the general interest or the interest of all whose will it does not represent, or for individual interests, the most sacred of which are the rights of man.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 3:28pm On Apr 18, 2015
Finally, A weak Opposition

As stated earlier, the opposition is vital to a having a democracy but I worry that by the time a formidable opposition is put in place, Buhari's government would have already begun slacking off. To put it another way, I worry that the way in which APC members supported the party across the country, which is typical of the mob mentality, gives it too much room for failure.

Now, anyone to assuage my worries?
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by ozoigbondu: 3:29pm On Apr 18, 2015
lntresting topic pls cont.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Hardheolar: 3:31pm On Apr 18, 2015
Hmmmm
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Edwardhead(m): 3:47pm On Apr 18, 2015
Please define ochlocracy

pdp practised
kakistocracy
cabalocracy

3 Likes

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Edwardhead(m): 3:47pm On Apr 18, 2015
musing2:
...
Please how much is d land?

1 Like

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by PassingShot(m): 3:50pm On Apr 18, 2015
Should you eventually make sense

1 Like

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Kennywills7(m): 3:57pm On Apr 18, 2015
.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 4:11pm On Apr 18, 2015
senseless post to b frank

1 Like

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 4:14pm On Apr 18, 2015
BiHung:
senseless post to b frank

I see
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by QuotaSystem: 4:16pm On Apr 18, 2015
Ascribing made-up meanings to complex words in order to suit your argument is one of the hallmarks of a deceitful discourse.

Ochlocracy - governance by a mob.

Democracy - control of a group by a majority of its members.

Mob - large disorderly group of people.


So are you calling the elected representatives of the Nigerian people a mob? Or are you calling the fact that they will rule on the basis of having the highest number of votes across 2/3 of the state's an Ochlocracy (instead of democracy)?

9 Likes

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 4:25pm On Apr 18, 2015
BiHung:
senseless post to b frank
u simply cant match da op's brilliance and definitely couldnt possibly have comprehended da op's post, needless to say u gat any reasonable,sensible,educative or healthy commentry to utter..so just stfu n pass by nicely n gently..

1 Like

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 4:25pm On Apr 18, 2015
QuotaSystem:
Ascribing made-up meanings to complex words in order to suit your argument is one of the hallmarks of a deceitful discourse.

Ochlocracy - governance by a mob.

Democracy - control of a group by a majority of its members.

Mob - large disorderly group of people.

So are you calling the elected representatives of the Nigerian people a mob? Or are you calling the fact that they will rule on the basis of having the highest number of votes across 2/3 of the state's an Ochlocracy (instead of democracy)?



well, yes i'm calling the Nigerian people a mob, of which i'm a member. I'm also saying the Nigerian government would once again be missing the point of democracy if it chooses to appoint people such as ministers, senate presidents and presidents of the HOA based on predetermined zonings. In addition, i'm saying that Nigerians as a whole, especially those that castigated people who did not vote for the incoming government, are heading for a system that believes in the primacy of the majority, rather than democracy where everyone's rights are respected. Finally, i'm saying that all these will lead to another failed government if they happen.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 4:31pm On Apr 18, 2015
musing2:
Let's first establish a characteristic of the current PDP government:

-It is a government led by a member of the minority , an Ijaw man, therefore I believe we can say it is incapable of demagoguery.

Now, let's establish a characteristic of the incoming APC government:


-It will be led by members of the largest and second largest ethnic groups in Nigeria, Buhari and Osibanjo, therefore we can say it has a fair potential of being demagoguery.

Finally, let us recall the news about APC meeting to zone political appointments even as important as those of ministers to certain regions, and in effect, tribes of the country. https://www.nairaland.com/2263098/apc-zones-senate-presidency-ncentral





So here is the question:
If this zoning is effected, and political appointments are allocated mainly to the president and vice president's regions of the country, what else will there be to redeem the incoming government from the accusations of nepotism and ochlocracy?

Background info:
Just like the incoming government, I was also a supporter of GEJ's government when it was coming in, and even though GEJ's government failed eventually I still maintain it's one of the best governments we have had, and it took a while before it started failing. Now, moving on to Buhari's incoming government, I am scared it will fail before it even begins the service of governing, by choosing to be ochlocratic rather than democratic. I'll give articles explaining my concern in the following posts.






boohacracy : government of almajiri by the almajiri for uwambe folks.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by baralatie(m): 4:44pm On Apr 18, 2015
musing2:


well, yes i'm calling the Nigerian people a mob, of which i'm a member. I'm also saying the Nigerian government would once again be missing the point of democracy if it chooses to appoint people such as ministers, senate presidents and presidents of the HOA based on predetermined zonings. In addition, i'm saying that Nigerians as a whole, especially those that castigated people who did not vote for the incoming government, are heading for a system that believes in the primacy of the majority, rather than democracy where everyone's rights are respected. Finally, i'm saying that all these will lead to another failed government if they happen.
bros it is called tautalogy!

1 Like

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 4:52pm On Apr 18, 2015
baralatie:

bros it is called tautalogy!

If you say so, but how would you describe the type of government I fear we will have when the new government comes in?
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by QuotaSystem: 4:59pm On Apr 18, 2015
musing2:


well, yes i'm calling the Nigerian people a mob, of which i'm a member. I'm also saying the Nigerian government would once again be missing the point of democracy if it chooses to appoint people such as ministers, senate presidents and presidents of the HOA based on predetermined zonings. In addition, i'm saying that Nigerians as a whole, especially those that castigated people who did not vote for the incoming government, are heading for a system that believes in the primacy of the majority, rather than democracy where everyone's rights are respected. Finally, i'm saying that all these will lead to another failed government if they happen.

You need to delineate and differentiate internal democracy from general democracy. General democracy are the votes of the majority of Nigerian people across 4 of the 6 regions that put the officials in power, internal democracy is within the working committee of the party which determines appointments after extensive consultations. Democracy is therefore present at all levels, and your assertion is therefore invalid.

See we can argue on technicalities here till dawn, but the basic fact is that some regions voted as a bloc, and as such should not be surprised at bloc appointments. No apologies should be expected either.

9 Likes

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by baralatie(m): 5:08pm On Apr 18, 2015
musing2:


If you say so, but how would you describe the type of government I fear we will have when the new government comes in?
I understand the fear of the government being controlled by a few people but it has been that way since after the civil war.it is that ideology that brings about change of govt( immediately the govt goes out of favor with its superiors).
In the case of this present govt.it is more complex than what we are used to.there is the
1.ac group
2.CPC group
3.npdp group
4.other affiliated party group
apart from party grouping we now have the personalities grouping
1.tinubu
2.buhari
3.atiku
4.kwNkwaso
5.obasanjo

then is the main influence that do not show there face in the pubic
1.the govt seat cabals.
It is not going to be easy for Mr.Buhari after May 29.
the issue of probable neglect of the ss/we has been there since after the civil war.it was during obj/ gej that a little focus was now given.so whether this govt will continue to give development to this region we will hope to see!
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 5:15pm On Apr 18, 2015
QuotaSystem:


You need to delineate and differentiate internal democracy from general democracy. General democracy are the votes of the majority of Nigerian people across 4 of the 6 regions that put the officials in power, internal democracy is within the working committee of the party which determines appointments after extensive consultations. Democracy is therefore present at all levels, and your assertion is therefore invalid.

See we can argue on technicalities here till dawn, but the basic fact is that some regions voted as a bloc, and as such should not be surprised at bloc appointments. No apologies should be expected either.

Actually we don't need to, because your last sentence says a lot. You're of the opinion that voting patters should be reflected in the incoming government - specifically the executive branch of government. My question to you is rhetoric:

If you feel the Executive branch of the federal government should be based on voting patterns, what example do you think that will set for all other levels of government?

Also, consider what it means if government at every level in Nigeria selectively shuts out people from ethnicities regions that vote against it.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by SirShymexx: 5:21pm On Apr 18, 2015
I tried to make something out of this epistle, and the more I tried, the more I get confused.

Some things are just better kept in the head and this is a classic case of musings gone wrong.

Regardless, what a befitting name the OP has...daydreaming all day looking like day walker the daydream lol. I don't envy you one bit.

Shalom.

4 Likes

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by QuotaSystem: 5:22pm On Apr 18, 2015
musing2:


[s]Actually we don't need to, because your last sentence says a lot. You're of the opinion that voting patters should be reflected in the incoming government - specifically the executive branch of government. My question to you is rhetoric:

If you feel the Executive branch of the federal government should be based on voting patterns, what example will that set for all other levels of government?

Also, consider what it means if government at every level in Nigeria selectively shuts out people from ethnicities that vote against it.[/s]

What example are we sett...are you for real? Are we talking rationality (which you based your thread on) or sentiments here? Since you're out of rational arguments to further defend your invalid assertion as I pointed out, I'll leave you to your thread. Cheers.

4 Likes

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 5:25pm On Apr 18, 2015
QuotaSystem:


...I'll leave you to your thread. Cheers.

I'm very obliged wink
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 5:26pm On Apr 18, 2015
Well @OP I think we should allow the APC their liberty to determine who fills what in the incoming administration. The SS and SE should rather ensure that their political and economic interests are not trampled on by the administration of Buhari.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by san316(m): 5:28pm On Apr 18, 2015
You are just musing thrash op. Buhari is fro NW, osinbajo is from SW, the new Senate president is from NC n the speaker will be from NE. Are these all the same geo poitical zones? Why didn't SE n SS vote in an APC senator to represent them?


Thrash.

3 Likes

Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by ayokellany: 5:41pm On Apr 18, 2015
Also, consider what it means if government at every level in Nigeria selectively shuts out people from ethnicities regions that vote against it.[/quote]


Those that voted against a particular govt will not even have a basis to demand for any position in a govt they voted against and would have to do with the crumbs they get. That is the reason why Senate president might be going to the north due to the block vote APC got over there while the SW marginal edge PDP. This would be a valid and strong basis for the politicians to argue their position
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 5:41pm On Apr 18, 2015
.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 5:42pm On Apr 18, 2015
barcanista:
Well @OP I think we should allow the APC their liberty to determine who fills what in the incoming administration. The SS and SE should rather ensure that their political and economic interests are not trampled on by the administration of Buhari.

Of course @ the emboldened, and I can do nothing but wait to see how it fills up the required positions. However my respect for the APC party will drop if executive posts are zoned, or if APC members in the Senate or HOA support only members of the majority. On the part of the party it would mean they are no different from PDP.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 5:46pm On Apr 18, 2015
ayokellany:
Also, consider what it means if government at every level in Nigeria selectively shuts out people from ethnicities regions that vote against it.


Those that voted against a particular govt will not even have a basis to demand for any position in a govt they voted against and would have to do with the crumbs they get. That is the reason why Senate president might be going to the north due to the block vote APC got over there while the SW marginal edge PDP. This would be a valid and strong basis for the politicians to argue their position

This going to the North thing or going to the south is what i'm worried about. Within the APC itself, in the Senate and HOA, there should be no zoning. The APC should always choose from within itself the best person for the job by voting, just as it did to choose Buhari.

*modified*
The situation I fear we will have is one where APC members are voting for someone or in the future, something, because party leaders have zoned the post to a region or informed them to vote in a particular way on an issue.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Nobody: 5:53pm On Apr 18, 2015
musing2:


Of course @ the emboldened, and I can do nothing but wait to see how it fills up the required positions. However my respect for the APC party will drop if executive posts are zoned, or if APC members in the Senate or HOA support only members of the majority. On the part of the party it would mean they are no different from PDP.
My guy, APC have no ideology. It is the usual practice in every democracy that majority party in the parliament allocates positions to themselves. I see nothing wrong with APC zoning, but the calibre of people that will fill the position becomes the problem, because they are men and women of questionable integrity and antecedents. Bros, pls drop it, let them share whatever position among themselves.
Re: Is The APC Government Heading For Ochlocracy? by Genius100: 5:54pm On Apr 18, 2015
OP is a slowpoke. How is SE and SS against for Buhari an evolving trend? SE and SS have been voting against Buhari since 2003...

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