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Welcome To New Auto Section - Autos (2) - Nairaland

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You Are Welcome To Cotonou Clearing And Forwarding Home!!!!!!! / New Auto Section Rule : To All Sellers Posting More Than 3 Adverts Per Day / <WELCOME TO NIGERIA<007'S ON RAMPAGE> Murano SL AWD. Preorderd By Benboa Of Nl (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by SisiJinx: 7:07pm On Feb 02, 2009
Busy_body:


Are you calling Igwe my lolo, wishy-washy angry angry angry tsk tsk tsk grin  Ha I no fit shout    lipsrsealed

No. . . just thin and watery!! Oy! I crack myself up
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by spikedcylinder: 7:14pm On Feb 02, 2009
Nawa o. This auto section is boomign sha. I should read more. grin
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by igwe11(m): 7:22pm On Feb 02, 2009
To be honest, this section is retrogressing like our naira currency. grin grin grin make una make up una mind na!  grin grin grin Is not all about igwe but  about peace and equal standard!! smiley smiley smiley
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-182283.224.html#msg3406763
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Cosjo(m): 7:23pm On Feb 02, 2009
jenju:

More pictures. I don't know why my peeps used a crappy camera for these pictures, I'd get clearer ones by the middle to end of next week.

VIN:  4T1BE46K37UXXXXXX  
Year:  2007  
Make:  Toyota  
Model:  Camry CE / LE / SE / XLE  
Style/Body:  Sedan 4D  
Class:  Mid Range Car - Standard  

Jenju's 2nd to last advert for 2008, initially he advertised the Full 17 digits, when I googled it, the car would land to Nigeria for 2 million naira which he placed for 2.650m "firm price" he later modified it with usual stupid excuse of ( vin blotted out on buyers instruction ), i am not against any business man over pricing products as long as he sees a fool that falls for it, what i am against is over pricing and still making yourself come out as cheapest, most honest and what not, if you have the interest of your people at heart, you will sell to them at a considerable fair price that will make them grateful to you.
the reason Igwe1 has changed tone now is that there is more awareness on this forum as regards Vin number and with this his Oga cannot come and take dry bread soak out stew again the reason for changing tone to send full vin to email, apart from google, there are many ways you can trace the source of a car through the full digits vin  cheesy cheesy
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by igwe11(m): 7:29pm On Feb 02, 2009
@ cosjo,
In as much as I state my stance clearly, I can as well take it personal with you and your oga if you insist on instigating lies and involving  innocent people here.
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by SisiJinx: 7:32pm On Feb 02, 2009
spikedcylinder:

Nawa o. This auto section is boomign sha. I should read more. grin

You ain't seen nothing yet. . cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy


igwe 1:

@ cosjo, In as much as I state my stance clear, I can as well take it personal with you and your oga if you insist on instigating lies and involving innocent people here.

So what are you saying. . . This New Rule was your Agenda all along?
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Cosjo(m): 7:34pm On Feb 02, 2009
igwe 1:

@ cosjo,
In as much as I state my stance clear, I can as well take it personal with you and your oga if you insist on instigating lies and involving  innocent people here.


Azuka, I dint blame yo because you are doing your job here, its your job to protect the interest on your oga, that is why you are paid and bribed for, if you have anything say it out, time is up.
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by spikedcylinder: 7:42pm On Feb 02, 2009
Ok. Sisi, summary?
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by igwe11(m): 7:53pm On Feb 02, 2009
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=216066.msg3328618#msg3328618

inspired_m:

[b] Vehicle Information:
2005 HONDA ACCORD EX
1HGCM66835A0*****
SEDAN 4 DR 3.0L V6 SFI SOHC 24V
FRONT WHEEL DRIVE
Standard Equipment | Safety Option

CARFAX 1-Owner vehicle

Personal vehicle

8 Detailed records available

65,000 miles     Last reported odometer reading

A CARFAX Vehicle History Report is based only on information supplied to CARFAX. Other information about this vehicle, including problems, may not have been reported to CARFAX. Use this report as one important tool, along with a vehicle inspection and test drive, to make a better decision about your next used car.

Year purchased      2005
Type of owner              Personal
Estimated length of ownership    3 years. 4 mo.
Owned in the following states/provinces    Massachusetts
Estimated miles driven per year    ---
Last reported odometer reading      65,000 

A CARFAX Vehicle History Report is based only on information supplied to CARFAX. CARFAX checked over 5 billion vehicle history events and found 8 record(s)  for this 2005 HONDA ACCORD EX (1HGCM66835A0*****).

8/28/2005              Massachusetts Motor Vehicle Dept. Mendon, MA      Vehicle purchase reported Registered as personal vehicle

08/31/2005              Massachusetts Motor Vehicle Dept. Mendon, MA      Registration issued or renewed First owner reported Vehicle color noted as Silver

09/02/2005        21       Massachusetts Inspection Station Natick, MA      Passed safety inspection View what was inspected

09/16/2005        55       Massachusetts Motor Vehicle Dept. Mendon, MA Title #BC315596      Title issued or updated Vehicle color noted as Silver

10/07/2006        56,050       Massachusetts Inspection Station Upton, MA      Passed safety inspection View what was inspected

12/15/2006        65,000       Vehicle involved in collision, Minor Damage Reported CARFAX began reporting this information on 12/17/2007.

02/22/2007                           Massachusetts Inspection Station Upton, MA.  Passed safety inspection View what was inspected

05/16/2007                            Vehicle Exporter        Vehicle exported from Jacksonville, FL and imported to Benin.


@ Mike.tomi

Sent the full digits Vin and carfax Report to your Email Already, Qualifies for my 6 Months Warranty, Expressly Implied. Congrats Again.

Thanks 

Inspired m

Aare Bobagunwa of Nairaland
Ataneru 1 of Urhobo Kingdom/Nairaland
Osina Nwata Buru Ogalanya 1 of Nairaland
Osina afo nne ya lebe motor 1 of Nairaland
Sar'kin/Santurakin of Nairaland Autos

GRAND COMMANDER FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF NAIRALAND AUTOS [/b]


  cool cool

@ cosjo
Does this satisfy your curiosity?  smiley smiley
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Cosjo(m): 7:54pm On Feb 02, 2009
Azuka, when Jenju was begging me 3 days ago to leave you alone i tell am say na you him suppose beg make you no spoil business for am, you don begin dey make me dig into wetin no konsain me now, look at another advert, this 2002 ML wey you oga advertise for 2.7 million in October

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-182459.0.html#msg2932409

VIN: 4JGAB54E42A340651
Year: 2002
Make: Mercedes-Benz
Model: M Class ML320
Style/Body: SUV / Utility 4D
Class: CUV - Premium
Engine: 3.2L V6 EFI / SFI
Country of Assembly: United States
Vehicle Age: 6 year(s)
Calculated Owners: 3
Last Reported
Odometer Reading: 78,797


when i google this VIN, 2 websites came up

http://www.usedcars.com/Sites/UCC/vehicledetail.aspx?make=Mercedes-Benz&model=M%20Class&zip=18103&vehicleId=14649519

http://mbusa.homenetinc.com/knopfautomotive/browse2.asp?param_new-used=used&path-taken=&param_year_begin=&param_year_end=&param_mileage_end=&param_isspecial=&param_certified=&param_make=Mercedes-Benz&param_model=&param_trim=&param_standardbody=&page=2

How you Oga wey dey buy for "dealers auction" car come take appear  for Knopf Automotive website http://www.knopfauto.com the showroom located on 3401 Lehigh St. Allentown PA. 18103, with phone numbers (610) 967-4121, 888-307-7795. The ML was listed for $12,450 by the seller, how come 2.7 million was your oga final price, if that no be GREED, the reason una wan abolish full vin numbers so we no go fit trace Una Greed, no way, VIN don come to stay i mean Full VIN  cheesy cheesy
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Busybody2(f): 8:00pm On Feb 02, 2009
Cosjo:

Jenju's 2nd to last advert for 2008, initially he advertised the Full 17 digits, . . .



First Observation


After he modified it, what was Igwe's stance because he has been hounding people for the past few days to post complete VIN, did he hound Jenju too?


Second Observation

Am I the only one that think this is the reason Igwe opened this thread, to cajole us and plead to our good nature that incomplete VIN can be supplied as done by Jenju?
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Busybody2(f): 8:02pm On Feb 02, 2009
Cosjo:

. . . i am not against any business man over pricing products as long as he sees a fool that falls for it, [size=14pt]what i am against is over pricing and still making yourself come out as cheapest, most honest and what not,[/size] if you have the interest of your people at heart, you will sell to them at a considerable fair price that will make them grateful to you. . .
cheesy cheesy



Cosjo, you ain't never lied, you are the true son of your father kiss
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by SisiJinx: 8:08pm On Feb 02, 2009
spikedcylinder:

Ok. Sisi, summary?

Long or short? grin


igwe 1:

To be honest, this section is retrogressing like our naira currency. grin grin grin make una make up una mind na!  grin grin grin Is not all about igwe but  about peace and equal standard!! smiley smiley smiley
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-182283.224.html#msg3406763

Please don't even try to hide behind peace. You do this all the time. . . slyly positioning those who speak up against you as not being for peace.

You hounded other car dealers for posting imcomplete VINS, you derailed their threads when they said they would send the VINs via email to INTERESTED buyers, except you think we have collective amnesia. . . there is no reasonable explanation for this your new stance.
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Busybody2(f): 8:10pm On Feb 02, 2009
igwe 1:

@ cosjo,
In as much as I state my stance clearly, I can as well take it personal with you and your oga if you insist on instigating lies and involving  innocent people here.


Sisi Jinx:

So what are you saying. . . This New Rule was your Agenda all along?


You dey mind Igwe grin First he was about protecting his people by demanding that VIN numbers should be displayed alongside car adverts, then it was about Agenda 2009, then he diversified into threatening us about sending Firearmy after our arse, now it transpires that all he was after all this while was for people to receive VIN via email grin grin grin You couldn't make it up cheesy


Did you notice the transformation in firearmy's posts, the dude's been scoffing humble pie by the bucketload grin grin grin
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by igwe11(m): 8:12pm On Feb 02, 2009
You like to call people their real names but you always end up calling the wrong  names.
I know you are  Inspired men  using amature scott cosjo burn December 6, 1983 to challenge Igwe on Nl, but now your game is up ! grin grin ;
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Busybody2(f): 8:14pm On Feb 02, 2009
Sisi Jinx:

Long or short? grin

You lead, I will fill in the gaps grin grin grin




Sisi Jinx:

Please don't even try to hide behind peace. You do this all the time. . . slyly positioning those who speak up against you as not being for peace.
You hounded other car dealers for posting imcomplete VINS, you derailed their threads when they said they would send the VINs via email to INTERESTED buyers, except you think we have collective amnesia. . . there is no reasonable explanation for this your new stance.


Unless it has finally dawned on them that plan C has failed too, so they now have to adopt the stance of "if you can't beat them, join them" cheesy grin cheesy
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Busybody2(f): 8:15pm On Feb 02, 2009
igwe 1:

You like to call people their real names but you always end up calling the wrong names.
I know you are Inspired men using amature scott cosjo burn December 6, 1983 to challenge Igwe on Nl, but now your game is up ! grin grin ;


[size=14pt]DEAL WITH THE ISSUE ON THE GROUND AND STOP DIGRESSING AND PARAMBULATING, YOUR CREDIBILITY IS AT STAKE angry angry angry grin[/size]
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by SisiJinx: 8:17pm On Feb 02, 2009
Busy_body:


You dey mind Igwe grin First he was about protecting his people by demanding that VIN numbers should be displayed alongside car adverts, then it was about Agenda 2009, then he diversified into threatening us about sending Firearmy after our arse, now it transpires that all he was after all this while was for people to receive VIN via email grin grin grin You couldn't make it up cheesy


Did you notice the transformation in firearmy's posts, the dude's been scoffing humble pie by the bucketload grin grin grin

Rotflmao!! What does take for??!!

I'm seriously offended oooooh! grin grin grin


igwe 1:

You like to call people their real names but you always end up calling the wrong  names.
I know you are  Inspired men  using amature scott cosjo burn December 6, 1983 to challenge Igwe on Nl, but now your game is up ! grin grin ;


No time for diversionary tactics, Mr. Igwe. . . answer the question posed to you
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by igwe11(m): 8:17pm On Feb 02, 2009
@ Sisi Jinx
You people should get ready to combat firearmy by the time he strikes with  . . . . . . .
grin grin grin grin
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by SisiJinx: 8:18pm On Feb 02, 2009
That's it Iya Lode. . . I'm gonna stop posting (before they accuse us of being one and the same cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy)
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by SisiJinx: 8:24pm On Feb 02, 2009
igwe 1:

@ Sisi Jinx
You people should get ready to combat firearmy by the time he strikes with  . . . . . . .
grin grin grin grin

When they were telling you to relax yourself, go easy and give people enough credit to judge for themselves, you didn't listen. . . You carried on like the patron saint of car buyers everywhere.

Well Mr. Igwe are you for

A) PARTIAL VIN POSTING
B) FULL VIN POSTING?

A simple A or B will suffice thank you very much. kiss kiss kiss
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by igwe11(m): 8:35pm On Feb 02, 2009
Busy_body:

[size=14pt]DEAL WITH THE ISSUE ON THE GROUND AND STOP DIGRESSING AND PARAMBULATING, YOUR CREDIBILITY IS AT STAKE angry angry angry grin[/size]
What credibility?
That i have some mischievous wives like you two.
@ I no dey sell cars but una go hearam for this auto section this year.
I go make sure cheating and  bad  belle comot for una mind.
LOL

Una boy wey dey sell car for una go learn lesson say nobody fit challenge Igwe ka ala 1 of nairaland. grin grin grin grin

Sisi Jinx:

When they were telling you to relax yourself, go easy and give people enough credit to judge for themselves, you didn't listen. . . You carried on like the patron saint of car buyers everywhere.

Well Mr. Igwe are you for

A) PARTIAL VIN POSTING
B) FULL VIN POSTING?

A simple A or B will suffice thank you very much. kiss kiss kiss
B of course, Full VIN posting all the way, grin grin grin so go after all postings with incomplete and without VIN at all if you are good at what I taught you. grin grin
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by jenju(m): 8:42pm On Feb 02, 2009
Cosjo:

Azuka, when Jenju was begging me 3 days ago to leave you alone i tell am say na you him suppose beg make you no spoil business for am, you don begin dey make me dig into wetin no konsain me now, look at another advert, this 2002 ML wey you oga advertise for 2.7 million in October

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-182459.0.html#msg2932409


when i google this VIN, 2 websites came up

http://www.usedcars.com/Sites/UCC/vehicledetail.aspx?make=Mercedes-Benz&model=M%20Class&zip=18103&vehicleId=14649519

http://mbusa.homenetinc.com/knopfautomotive/browse2.asp?param_new-used=used&path-taken=¶m_year_begin=¶m_year_end=¶m_mileage_end=¶m_isspecial=¶m_certified=¶m_make=Mercedes-Benz¶m_model=¶m_trim=¶m_standardbody=&page=2

How you Oga wey dey buy for "dealers auction" car come take appear  for Knopf Automotive website http://www.knopfauto.com the showroom located on 3401 Lehigh St. Allentown PA. 18103, with phone numbers (610) 967-4121, 888-307-7795. The ML was listed for $12,450 by the seller, how come 2.7 million was your oga final price, if that no be GREED, the reason una wan abolish full vin numbers so we no go fit trace Una Greed, no way, VIN don come to stay i mean Full VIN  cheesy cheesy

Just to set the record straight, that ML320 was purchased at an auction,  the fact that it was previously owned by a dealership in Allentown does not change that fact.  If people think that my products are overpriced, I suggest that they do not purchase from me. Its that simple. Competition is healthy.

Here's the VIN report on the said car. It was purchase at an auction, we added DVD and several other items and sold it at what we think is an appropriate price.

VIN:  4JGAB54E42A340651  
Year:  2002  
Make:  Mercedes-Benz  
Model:  M Class ML320  
Style/Body:  SUV / Utility 4D  
Class:  CUV - Premium  
Engine:  3.2L V6 EFI / SFI  
Country of Assembly:  United States  
Vehicle Age:  6 year(s)  
Calculated Owners:  3  
Last Reported
Odometer Reading:  78,797  

0 Problem(s) Reported:  15 Title/Problem areas checked:  
 No abandoned title record  
 No damaged title or major damage incident record  
 No fire damaged title record  
 No grey market title record  
 No hail damage title record  
 No insurance loss title record  
 No junk or scrapped title record  
 No manufacturer buyback/lemon title record  
 No odometer problem title record  
 No rebuilt/rebuildable title record  
 No salvage title or salvage auction record  
 No water damaged title record  
 No NHTSA crash test record  
 No frame damage record  
 No recycling facility record  

Mileage  Date Reported    
 75  03/29/2002  
 13,348  04/15/2003  
 35,037  03/17/2005  
 78,797  09/29/2008  
 78,797  10/03/2008  

03/29/2002  ALLENTOWN, PA  75  Motor Vehicle Dept.  TITLE (Title #:57374374) (Lien Reported)  
04/24/2002  ALLENTOWN, PA   Motor Vehicle Dept.  REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL  
01/16/2003  ALLENTOWN, PA   Motor Vehicle Dept.  TITLE (Title #:57374374) (Lien Reported)  
01/17/2003  ALLENTOWN, PA   Motor Vehicle Dept.  REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL  
04/15/2003  RIEGELSVILLE, PA  13,348  Motor Vehicle Dept.  TITLE (Title #:57374374) (Lien Reported)  
05/06/2003  RIEGELSVILLE, PA   Motor Vehicle Dept.  REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL  
02/03/2004  RIEGELSVILLE, PA   Motor Vehicle Dept.  REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL  
03/17/2005  BATH, PA  35,037  Motor Vehicle Dept.  TITLE (Title #:57374374)
REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL  
11/29/2007  BATH, PA   Motor Vehicle Dept.  REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL  
09/29/2008  PA  78,797  Auto Auction  REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION AS DEALER VEHICLE  
10/03/2008  PA  78,797  Auto Auction  REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by igwe11(m): 8:44pm On Feb 02, 2009
Cosjo don run dey post wayo ads with another user name for another thread  ooo D grin grin grin
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Cosjo(m): 8:45pm On Feb 02, 2009
igwe 1:

What credibility?
That i have some mischievous wives like you two.
@ I no dey sell cars but una go hearam for this auto section this year.
I go make sure cheating and  bad  belle comot for una mind.
LOL

Una boy wey dey sell car for una go learn lesson say nobody fit challenge Igwe ka ala 1 of nairaland. grin grin grin grin
B of course, Full VIN posting all the way, grin grin grin so go after all postings with incomplete and without VIN at all if you are good at what I taught you. grin grin

You no dey sell Car but Jenju don Bribe you ame you dey halla am, I go make sure your Oga no dey cheat anybody all in name of honesty with him high prices, i know say him get debts and mortages to pay as a family man but with God all things are possible no need to put all financial responsibility on top sale of 1 car, as for you i don see you as bastard wey dey deny him papa name, you no be Azu Arinze again na wa o, una go hear am this year, i never start, i no dey sell moto, i no get anything to lose, na you or oga no go get money bribe again.  cheesy
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by igwe11(m): 8:50pm On Feb 02, 2009
Cosjo:

You no dey sell Car but Jenju don Bribe you ame you dey halla am, I go make sure your Oga no dey cheat anybody all in name of honesty with him high prices, i know say him get debts and mortages to pay as a family man but with God all things are possible no need to put all financial responsibility on top sale of 1 car, as for you i don see you as bastard wey dey deny him papa name, you no be Azu Arinze again na wa o, una go hear am this year, i never start, i no dey sell moto, i no get anything to lose, na you or oga no go get money bribe again.  cheesy
Inspired Men, I dey warn you now oh,
you don dey use cosjo username as u take use yahoo own before when he dey serve you.
How can darkness over power light. I have tried my best to make you understand that the world is not the bed of roses but you refused
grin grin grin
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by inspiredm(m): 8:56pm On Feb 02, 2009
igwe 1:

Inspired Men, I dey warn you now oh,
you don dey use cosjo username as u take use yahoo own before when he dey serve you.
How can darkness over power light. I have tried my best to make you understand that the world is not the bed of roses but you refused
grin grin grin


Igwe1,

Since My Issue with you on my Hybrid Thread, I have cleverly Avoided you and your Dumb Posts even when you Made References to me, Like I said earlier, This Year for me is not for replying to Bozos and Gallots like you  and My primary aim on this forum is to Make Money and not Cyber Fights, Kindly Avoid me.


Mr Seun Osewa You got Mail.  cool cool
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Busybody2(f): 8:56pm On Feb 02, 2009
Sisi Jinx:

That's it Iya Lode. . . I'm gonna stop posting (before they accuse us of being one and the same cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy)


Na today grin grin grin Even I have been accused of being inspired more times than I can count, water off a duck's back if you ask me grin grin grin

Talking of impostor sef, Akuya no be dealer too, and considering the way Igwe has been falling for my hand, accepting bungs and dilly-dallying all over the place, its high time he paid us a visit to oversee the swearing in of the new recruit of Sanitisation Officers grin grin grin
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by igwe11(m): 9:04pm On Feb 02, 2009
inspired_m:



Igwe1,

Since My Issue with you on my Hybrid Thread, I have cleverly Avoided you and your Dumb Posts even when you Made References to me, Like I said earlier, This Year for me is not for replying to Bozos and Gallots like you  and My primary aim on this forum is to Make Money and not Cyber Fights, Kindly Avoid me.


Mr Seun Osewa You got Mail.  cool cool

Why not call all your people to order.
busy_bosy, sisi jinx and co

Even when I make positive contributions they won't let me be. Calling me all sorts of names.
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by SisiJinx: 9:09pm On Feb 02, 2009
I'm reeling right now!! cry cry

I just went through Igwe 1's post. . . at least the post that appear under his name and except Mr. igwe has some really, really, really off days, Days where he forgets how to spell certain words or even constructs sentences, where he sounds like someone who really doesn't know much but is trying to wing it and there are days when he gets all formal, with perfect sentence structure, perfect tenses and very knowledge about cars. . .  I can't explain the inconsistencies in his writings.

I mean it is so freaking easy tell which one is his and which isn't. I hate to believe it is what I think it is because if it is then. . . wow, just WOW. shocked shocked shocked The length some people will go to rid themselves of the competition and the length others will allow themselves to be used is astonishing!!
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by SisiJinx: 9:10pm On Feb 02, 2009
igwe 1:

Why not call all your people to order.
busy_bosy, sisi jinx and co

Even when I make positive contributions they won't let me be. Calling me all sorts of names.


You call yourself to order my friend and stop acting like a remote controlled doll.
Re: Welcome To New Auto Section by Busybody2(f): 9:11pm On Feb 02, 2009
igwe 1:

Why not call all your people to order.
busy_bosy, cosjo and co

[size=14pt]Even when[/size] I make positive contributions they won't let me be. Calling me all sorts of names.



Another cop-out cool What are you crying on Inspired-men's shoulders for, somebody collected your bread or sweet grin grin grin Why don't you run to firearmy to come and defend you instead cheesy cheesy cheesy

At least I am glad you admit with your [size=14pt]even when[/size] statement that you acknowledge the fact that you f*ck up sometimes grin grin grin

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