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TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? - Religion - Nairaland

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TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 4:45pm On May 09, 2015
JOHN 14 :8-9



Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


HOW DO YOU INTERPRET THIS VERSE?
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 5:01pm On May 09, 2015
John 14:1-6 gives us the context
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Let's go down to some verses in the same chapter, see John 14:9-12
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Jesus' life was such that The Father was revealed through Him. As Luke 10:22, declares, “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” And He revealed the Father to the disciples as stated in John 17:6


This is why Jesus could pray the way He did in John 17:6
6 I have manifested Your Name [I have revealed Your very Self, Your real Self] to the people whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me, and they have obeyed and kept Your word.

6 Likes

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by GrandMufti: 5:09pm On May 09, 2015
I am the way, the truth and the life, no one can come to the father except through me..

Or in another verse,

To have seen me is to have seen the one who sent me

2 Likes

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 5:23pm On May 09, 2015
Scholar8200:
Let's go down to some verses in the same chapter, see John 14:9-12
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Jesus' life was such that The Father was revealed through Him. As Luke 10:22, declares, “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” And He revealed the Father to the disciples as stated in John 17:6


This is why Jesus could pray the way He did in John 17:6
6 I have manifested Your Name [I have revealed Your very Self, Your real Self] to the people whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me, and they have obeyed and kept Your word.

DEVIATION!!!!......stick to that verse
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 5:30pm On May 09, 2015
bingbagbo:


DEVIATION!!!!......stick to that verse
What was deviated from? I simply quoted some verses in the same chapter you quoted that clearly explains the one you quoted! Telling me to stick to that verse and explain it 'from the brain' while ignoring other relevant verses explains why you are making the mistakes in interpretation you have made!

4 Likes

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 5:49pm On May 09, 2015
Scholar8200:
What was deviated from? I simply quoted some verses in the same chapter you quoted that clearly explains the one you quoted! Telling me to stick to that verse and explain it 'from the brain' while ignoring other relevant verses explains why you are making the mistakes in interpretation you have made!

i Mean what is the meaning of the verses i quoted?

JESUS CLEARLY SAID HE WAS THE FATHER,....DO YOU DOUBT THAT?

1 Like

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 5:58pm On May 09, 2015
bingbagbo:


i Mean what is the meaning of the verses i quoted?

JESUS CLEARLY SAID HE WAS THE FATHER,....DO YOU DOUBT THAT?
Kindly show me this as stated verbatim in your initial quote.
And why are you allergic to the immediate verses 9-12? I guess they contradict what you think/wish vs 8 said! While they offer clarity to the unbiased.

3 Likes

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 6:10pm On May 09, 2015
Scholar8200:
Kindly show me this as stated verbatim in your initial quote.
And why are you allergic to the immediate verses 9-12? I guess they contradict what you think/wish vs 8 said! While they offer clarity to the unbiased.


are u saying that JESUS lied in saying HOW CAN YOU ASK ME TO SHOW YOU THE FATHER?....I THE FATHER HAVE BEEN WITH YOU FOR LONG....DID JESUS LIE?
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 6:17pm On May 09, 2015
bingbagbo:



are u saying that JESUS lied in saying HOW CAN YOU ASK ME TO SHOW YOU THE FATHER?....I THE FATHER HAVE BEEN WITH YOU FOR LONG....DID JESUS LIE?
Kindly show me the highlighted text, verbatim, in your initial post. Now you twist that verse, even though this contradicts the immediately succeeding verses in the same chapter!
Note that any conclusion you arrive at that does not follow the line of thought declared by Jesus in verses 9 - 12,that conclusion is an error.

3 Likes

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 6:34pm On May 09, 2015
Scholar8200:
Kindly show me the highlighted text, verbatim, in your initial post. Now you twist that verse, even though this contradicts the immediately succeeding verses in the same chapter!
Note that any conclusion you arrive at that does not follow the line of thought declared by Jesus in verses 9 - 12,that conclusion is an error.

i give you the benefit of the doubt, what did JESUS imply in that verse? lipsrsealed
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 6:52pm On May 09, 2015
bingbagbo:


i give you the benefit of the doubt, what did JESUS imply in that verse? lipsrsealed
Exactly what verse 9-12 and Luke 10:22 expressed as stated in my initial reply viz Jesus revealed the Father to His disciples.

1 Like

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 6:59pm On May 09, 2015
Scholar8200:
Exactly what verse 9-12 and Luke 10:22 expressed as stated in my initial reply viz Jesus revealed the Father to His disciples.


what did Jesus imply?

be bold and state it clearly
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 8:28pm On May 09, 2015
Exactly what verse 9-12 and Luke 10:22 expressed as stated in my initial reply viz Jesus revealed the Father to His disciples. Jesus revealed the Father to His disciples.

2 Likes

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 8:33pm On May 09, 2015
Scholar8200:
Exactly what verse 9-12 and Luke 10:22 expressed as stated in my initial reply viz[b] Jesus revealed the Father to His disciples.[/b]


so which father again did Jesus reveal?
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 8:35pm On May 09, 2015
bingbagbo:



so which father again did Jesus reveal?
The Father referred to in John 14:9-12 and many other parallel verses.

3 Likes

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 10:00pm On May 09, 2015
Scholar8200:
The Father referred to in John 14:9-12 and many other parallel verses.


WHO IS HE?
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 10:13pm On May 09, 2015
bingbagbo:



WHO IS HE?
The Father to whom Jesus returned to after perfecting the redemption, John 14:12,"... I go unto My FATHER"

3 Likes

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 8:52am On May 10, 2015
Scholar8200:
The Father to whom Jesus returned to after perfecting the redemption, John 14:12,"... I go unto My FATHER"


lol grin
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 9:23am On May 10, 2015
Scholar8200:
The Father to whom Jesus returned to after perfecting the redemption, John 14:12,"... I go unto My FATHER"

JOHN 4:22

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND PRAY MY BROTHERS
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Orunto: 10:13am On May 10, 2015
Joh 14:8, Philip was about to receive the Holy Spirit. The Baptism of Philip was unfolding, like a Drama and Philip and the rest were watching excitingly.
Joh 14:9 Jesus looked at philip to observe the scope of the Holy Spirit required to possess Philip completely. Jesus opened Philip's spiritual eyes to enable him see clearly His, Jesus, Glory. And He baptised Philip and blessed him. And Philip saw fully what he has never seen before, the Glory of God Almighty on Jesus, in His Face and Body. And Philip became BornAgain, Son of God and a would be "appostle of Christ Jesus." MAY GOD GRANT US PROPER UNDERSTANDING OF HIS WORD.
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by johnw74: 10:53am On May 10, 2015
Scholar8200:
The Father to whom Jesus returned to after perfecting the redemption, John 14:12,"... I go unto My FATHER"


You are right of course, we know the scriptures are true and don't deny them.
Jesus goes to His Father, God.
And verse 16 is just one other place in the Bible which shows the three persons of God.

Joh 14:9 Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in Me? The Words that I speak to you I do not speak of Myself, but the Father who dwells in Me, He does the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the very works themselves.
Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatever you may ask in My name, that I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
Joh 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,

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Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 12:27pm On May 10, 2015
bingbagbo:


JOHN 4:22

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND PRAY MY BROTHERS
John 4:23-26 shows that the Messiah sent by the Father, is distinct from the Father,"...worship the Father in spirit and in truth; the Father seeks such to worship Him. . . God is A Spirit. . . Messiah comes . . . Called Christ. . . I that speaks unto you am He"[THE MESSIAH].
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 1:53pm On May 10, 2015
Scholar8200:
John 4:23-26 shows that the Messiah sent by the Father, is distinct from the Father,"...worship the Father in spirit and in truth; the Father seeks such to worship Him. . . God is A Spirit. . . Messiah comes . . . Called Christ. . . I that speaks unto you am He"[THE MESSIAH].

1 Corinthians 12:3

Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 5:59pm On May 10, 2015
bingbagbo:


1 Corinthians 12:3

Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Truth! Let me add, 1 Corinthians 8:6,"... The Father of Whom are all things, and we in Him; And One Lord Jesus Christ by Whom are all things, and we by Him" and 1 John 5:7," For There are three that bear record in Heaven, The Father,The Word, and The Holy Ghost: and These Three are One." and finally Hebrews 1:1,2" God Who at sundry times and divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son..."

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Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by johnw74: 12:39am On May 11, 2015
Scholar8200:
Truth! Let me add, 1 Corinthians 8:6,"... The Father of Whom are all things, and we in Him; And One Lord Jesus Christ by Whom are all things, and we by Him" and 1 John 5:7," For There are three that bear record in Heaven, The Father,The Word, and The Holy Ghost: and These Three are One." and finally Hebrews 1:1,2" God Who at sundry times and divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son..."


That is a good verse (bolded) for showing that the three persons of God, are One God

1 John 5:7," For There are three that bear record in Heaven, The Father,The Word, and The Holy Ghost: and These Three are One."

Mar_12:32 And the scribe said to Him, Right, Teacher, according to truth You have spoken, that God is one, and there is no other besides Him.


God is One

The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost is One (and These Three are One)

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Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by An2elect2(f): 2:45pm On May 11, 2015
Scholar8200:
Truth! Let me add, 1 Corinthians 8:6,"... The Father of Whom are all things, and we in Him; And One Lord Jesus Christ by Whom are all things, and we by Him" and 1 John 5:7," For There are three that bear record in Heaven, The Father,The Word, and The Holy Ghost: and These Three are One." and finally Hebrews 1:1,2" God Who at sundry times and divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son..."

It is so easy to believe that there are three persons in one God from few passages in the new testament. How then do we explain the old testament where God is described multiple times as numerically one?

Notice that no where in the old testament were we told God is three in one and even in the new testament! that passage says there are three that bear record in heaven NOT three persons that make one God!

Okay that aside we are speaking of the Father here. Was prophet Isaiah not under the unction of the Holy spirit when he said this in I saiah 9:6?


"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is
given: and the government shall be upon his
shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The
everlasting Father
, The Prince of Peace."

Is Jesus, the promised messiah not being referred to here as the Father? or are you saying there are two Fathers?

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Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 4:44pm On May 11, 2015
An2elect2:


It is so easy to believe that there are three persons in one God from few passages in the new testament. How then do we explain the old testament where God is described multiple times as numerically one?
Hebrews 1:1,2 answers this,
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, ... Other passages like Psalm 2:11,12 ; Proverbs 30:4, Psalm 110:1 are all in the OT.

Okay that aside we are speaking of the Father here. Was prophet Isaiah not under the Unction of the Holy spirit when he said this in Isaiah 9:6?


"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is
given: and the government shall be upon his
shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The
everlasting Father
, The Prince of Peace."

Is Jesus, the promised messiah not being referred to here as the Father? or are you saying there are two Fathers?
The use of the word Father there is the same usage in Genesis 45:8 spoken by Joseph when he became prime minister or one that administered Egypt
8 So now it was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt. Compare this with the rendition of the same verse in NIV
8 “So then, it was not you who sent me here, but God. He made me father to Pharaoh, lord of his entire household and ruler of all Egypt.
So the usage of Everlasting Father as concerns Jesus Christ, relates to His Lordship.

You may want to consider the striking similarity between Genesis 41:41-43 and Daniel 7: 13,14 as regards this.
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by Barnabaseloka(m): 6:57pm On May 11, 2015
When we talk of the Trinity, we talk about three personalities in unity, becoming one- God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The unity binding them makes it impossible for anyone to distinguish them. They have their specific roles. God the Father is at the helm of affairs passing any instruction to God the Son (Jesus), who in turn sends it to God the Holy Spirit (who dwells in us). No man has seen the three because anyone of them that appears represents the three of them. This UNITY in the Trinity is what Jesus prayed for in the lives of Christians. In John 10:30 Jesus said 'I and my Father are one' meaning whoever has seen me has seen the Father. This is why when one prays one can use Father, Jesus, Almighty God, Holy Spirit, and other names to refer to them.
Note: Only the Trinity know themselves. Christians can only see one personality in operation. This is due to the intense unity binding them together.

1 Like

Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 12:03am On May 12, 2015
Scholar8200:

Hebrews 1:1,2 answers this,
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, ... Other passages like Psalm 2:11,12 ; Proverbs 30:4, Psalm 110:1 are all in the OT.


The use of the word Father there is the same usage in Genesis 45:8 spoken by Joseph when he became prime minister or one that administered Egypt
8 So now it was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt. Compare this with the rendition of the same verse in NIV
8 “So then, it was not you who sent me here, but God. [b]He made me father to Pharaoh, [/b]lord of his entire household and ruler of all Egypt.
So the usage of Everlasting Father as concerns Jesus Christ, relates to His Lordship.

You may want to consider the striking similarity between Genesis 41:41-43 and Daniel 7: 13,14 as regards this.

grin grin
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by An2elect2(f): 12:25am On May 12, 2015
Scholar8200:

Hebrews 1:1,2 answers this,
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, ... Other passages like Psalm 2:11,12 ; Proverbs 30:4, Psalm 110:1 are all in the OT.
Am sorry but this does not answer the question. You say there are three persons who are co equal, co eternal in one God. And i ask where in the bible is God described this way, as a trinity?
Scholar8200:


The use of the word Father there is the same usage in Genesis 45:8 spoken by Joseph when he became prime minister or one that administered Egypt
8 So now it was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt. Compare this with the rendition of the same verse in NIV
8 “So then, it was not you who sent me here, but God. He made me father to Pharaoh, lord of his entire household and ruler of all Egypt.
So the usage of Everlasting Father as concerns Jesus Christ, relates to His Lordship.

You may want to consider the striking similarity between Genesis 41:41-43 and Daniel 7: 13,14 as regards this.

Oh my! is this how you interpret scriptures? how do you know it is the same way it was used in these passages? I read them but i didn't see any relationship btw them and Jesus being described as the everlasting Father.

I think you should not mix up something here. Trinitarianism says the Father is not the son and the son is not the Father. They title father is of course reserved, exclusively for the Father. Yea thats why He is the Father and the son holds the "sonship" title below the Father. Why then would the son be called the everlasting father? will two fathers spring up later on? It was his name. It was what it denotes. Everlasting Father! Isaiah did not say it means Lordship. He said everlasting father! why should we single this particular name out to give it another meaning?

I guess prince of peace, counsellor, wonderful, mighty God all connote something different too. Really?
Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by An2elect2(f): 12:30am On May 12, 2015
bingbagbo:


grin grin

Abeg what is he trying to say? there are two fathers. Big father and small father?

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Re: TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? by bingbagbo(m): 12:43am On May 12, 2015
An2elect2:


Abeg what is he trying to say? there are two fathers. Big father and small father?

that is all in his attempt to defend a doctrine he himself doesnt understand grin

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