macof:
Unification of africa? When you cannot unify a single region say West africa

This is a fantasy cause I don't see this happening without a military conquest and political domination of one African state

Not according to an uninformed bloke who probably tells his friends he speaks "African"
Who goes about equating the history and culture of the Fulanis to that of the Bantu pygmies...cos you know...they all black and stuff!
Lol!
Read up what that bloke up there is insinuating and tell me if you wont have a good laugh.
"We" gave the whites civilization!! First off...who is we?
And where is the evidence of the civilization "we" gave the whites in our lands?

PabloAfricanus:


Not according to an uninformed bloke who probably tells his friends he speaks "African"
Who goes about equating the history and culture of the Fulanis to that of the Bantu pygmies...cos you know...they all black and stuff!
Lol!
Read up what that bloke up there is insinuating and tell me if you wont have a good laugh.
"We" gave the whites civilization!! First off...who is we?
And where is the evidence of the civilization "we" gave the whites in our lands?

. If African leaders even decide to merge up into one united state, Europe and America will let it. Cus they know such projects will end up in failure
But a military uprising taking over territories and expanding will be met with hostility by the Whites cus they fear power like that

macof:


. If African leaders even decide to merge up into one united state, Europe and America will let it. Cus they know such projects will end up in failure
But a military uprising taking over territories and expanding will be met with hostility by the Whites cus they fear power like that

I dont think there is an ideological basis for any pan african driven policy...for now.
We are already divided along religious and as a consequence cultural lines.
Will the muslims of Mali and Senegal find it easy to concede intellectual superiority to the Christians of angola? Maybe… maybe not. Cos as you noted, somebody must lead.

With the benefit of hindsight… the colonial experiment of artificial countries might end up being a benefit in disguise for africans. Cos what we might not have been able to effectively do on our own… due to our typical bickering over trivials. We literally were given modern statehood by the whites.
An ideological base africans can identify with is the key to achieving a level of unity.
My analysis of the matter points in the direction of foreign religions… those must be shifted to second place as an identity factor. Most africans have built their identities around those jewish and arab sky daddies. We need to realize we were black africans…first… before we ever professed belief in foreign sky daddies.
With a shared identity structure unencumbered by religious loyalties… we can recognize our shared destiny as the dark skinned peoples of the planet and build on that foundation.
Ancient african history was a glorious and imperial one… based on science, technology and advanced thinking. Not this one where we are bedevilled by dull, unintelligent and tame niggas who are afraid to take on the white establishment. Who cant even envision workable economic policies without foreign help.

A united african confederation of states will def pose a threat to white imperialism.
Its inevitable… the artificial states have to be reworked… compatible ethnic groups will have to negotiate their statehood with each other… and those effing boundaries adjusted to reflect history. Its possible… if we do not do it now… we will do it in the future after a replay of Rwanda sudan or biafra jolts us back to reality.

Those with superior knowledge will win. Its the way its always been.
Right now africans appear not have invested much in superior knowledge. We need to reverse that.

PabloAfricanus:


Not according to an uninformed bloke who probably tells his friends he speaks "African"
Who goes about equating the history and culture of the Fulanis to that of the Bantu pygmies...cos you know...they all black and stuff!
Lol!
Read up what that bloke up there is insinuating and tell me if you wont have a good laugh.
"We" gave the whites civilization!! First off...who is we?
And where is the evidence of the civilization "we" gave the whites in our lands?

You talk so much ignorant rubbish. You are happy to regale us with how wonderful Europe was, lumping them all together. Meanwhile, it was really only either Rome or Greece at their various epochs doing anything serious, while the rest of Europe lived in illiteracy, ignorance, and savagery. (Until black African Moors brought civilization to them in the Middle Ages). But you never limit their successes based on that. But Africa? Oh it was ''only'' the Ethiopians''. It was ''only'' the Nubians. It was ''only'' the Egyptians.... ''not ALL of Africa''. ''Not'' Igbos, ''Not'' Yorubas. So they can't possibly take credit for ''others''' achievements. You think like a slave, and are so deep in it you can't smell your own stinking manure. We are AFRICANS. And we DO take pride in our AFRICAN achievements. You have a problem with that, go eat dust.

PabloAfricanus:


Let me leave you with this parting thoughts...
A few centuries from now...when you and I have long departed from this planet...
The descendants of you, I, other living Africans...are going to wonder why their entire world view is entirely European.
All that you are today is a product of Western thought...I tried to awaken you to that reality...but you turned to insults.
The old glories of bygone Africans you are basking in are not visible in your village.
Kerma and her ancient culture are not replicated anywhere in your country.
None of the known culture of Egypt or Kush can be seen anywhere in your vicinity.
None of the architecture, writing, culture of Ancient Kush or Egypt can be found within your ethnic group or surrounding ones.
If there is tell me about it...not third party "quotes" and "references"! Tell me what your forefathers called a pyramid or an Egyptian uraeus.
Prove to me that you forebears knew about Egypt or Kush...that you do not need Westerners to tell your story.

If you cannot do any of the above...I'm sorry you are a western slave and will pass on that state to your descendants.
You my friend are simply living on supposedly "African" past glory. Pity!
To make it worse, I tried pointing out to you...that your history is being told by foreigners.
The bulk of what Africans know about ancient African history came from the studies of the whites.
Tell your own story...let it be a living story coming from you!
Stop being a Wikipedia historian!
If Europeans had to do the digging and documentation to unearth the majority of your so called history...I'm afraid you are either historically dead or just about to be

The Egyptians found out to their horror few years after the founding of Alexandria that Greek culture, language and religion have completely taken over their land!
Their ancient scrolls and histories had been transcribed to Greek by imperial command...and their children were now learning Egyptian religion, science and history..in Greek...from Greek teachers!
Right now this is where Africans find themselves...I tried from my first post to point that out to you.
If you are going to bask in the glory of ancient African achievements...tell the story in your own tongue, by your own people.
"Numerous references" and "examples" from Western historians can then add to or corroborate your history.

And let me re-iterate for ya...Ancient Nubia, Kush, Ethiopia and Egypt are not synonymous with sub saharan Africa.
You as expected demonstrated laughable ignorance of that fact.
Quoting Western and other African authors who only heard about Egypt from the whites...still leaves your history in the hands of foreigners!
If you cannot today tell me the oral history of your own people about Akhenaten or any of the black pharaohs of Egypt then shut it!
Piye invaded Egypt in 730 BC, after conquering the Lower and Upper Egypt...he returned home to Nubia.
If you want to claim that as an "African" thing for Yorubas, Igbos and Hausas of today...the logical thing to do would be to produce your own oral history of Piye. If you can't then go do it. That way your history and culture will be told by you...and it will be more authentic.
Else a humble submission that you've entirely lost it...would be appropriate...and thats a starting point I've been preaching.

I'm suspecting you are either an African American or a Nigerian who grew up abroad.
Those ancient cultures were distinct and separate civilizations from other ethnic cultures or groups in Africa.
Kush, Nubia, or Ethiopia does not equal Ewe, Fanti, Bantu, Xhosa, Bini, Nupe, Fulani, Yoruba, Zulu or any of the numerous peoples in Africa.
If you do not understand that...then you really need to learn more about Africa.

Ciao.

Everything you wrote above is garbage. You clearly don't know what constitutes adequate historical inquiry. Your stuff about what qualifies me to state such and such is African history based on if my ethnic group has an oral history about the event, is sheer madness. No historical enquiry on earth proceeds from such a peculiar, nonsensical premise. By your queer logic, an Englishman or Frenchman cannot discuss or invoke his European history since his Celtic ancestors had nothing to do with Greece, and were seen at best, as remote barbarians by the latter. You talk glibly of ''sub-saharan Africa'', seeking to differentiate it from ''non-sub saharan'', an entirely western-invented division, yet claim westerners cannot write authentic African history. Only village oral traditionalists can recount it to us over a fireplace! I mean, you sound like a fruitcake. Inventing your own queer and strange research criteria and imposing it on us. To say there are no cultural links between ancient Egypt and west or central Africa is the very height of historical ignorance. Go and learn African history. You've no business being on this thread. And no, I will not take your long, uninformed rants seriously by responding point by point. Can't be bothered. Go and read the Destruction of Black Civilization by Dr Chancellor Williams. Might get some knowledge into your head. Or Cheikh Anta Diop's The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality?. There is a lot you do NOT know. And do stop guessing who or where I'm from and all that inane nonsense. It's none of your business.

edrys:
PabloAfricanus. and Rossikk. Your debates has been an eye opener and quite enlightening. Very objective I must say, though I'm not choosing side because I'm lacking in knowledge in this regard ; Please with your vast knowledge of African history could you share your resources with willing students like me. I'm so much in hunger of what our fore fathers life was before and during the colonial era.
And to the question of how the Colonist were able to subdue our land, I think its because of the rife and lack of trust between the various tribe then. for instance there were always at war with one another.

I would suggest you start with the Destruction of Black Civilization - Great Issues of a Race from 4500BC to 2000AD by Dr Chancellor Williams. This book has been called the black man's bible. The late Dr Williams was an African-American historian who spent 10 years and visited 25 African countries in the course of his research and field studies to put together this work. If you read nothing about African history, read this.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Destruction-Black-Civilization-Issues-4500BC/dp/0883780305

Rossikk:


Everything you wrote above is garbage. You clearly don't know what constitutes adequate historical inquiry. Your stuff about what qualifies me to state such and such is African history based on if my ethnic group has an oral history about the event, is sheer madness. No historical enquiry on earth proceeds from such a peculiar, nonsensical premise. By your queer logic, an Englishman or Frenchman cannot discuss or invoke his European history since his Celtic ancestors had nothing to do with Greece, and were seen at best, as remote barbarians by the latter. You talk glibly of ''sub-saharan Africa'', seeking to differentiate it from ''non-sub saharan'', an entirely western-invented division, yet claim westerners cannot write authentic African history. Only village oral traditionalists can recount it to us over a fireplace! I mean, you sound like a fruitcake. Inventing your own queer and strange research criteria and imposing it on us. To say there are no cultural links between ancient Egypt and west or central Africa is the very height of historical ignorance. Go and learn African history. You've no business being on this thread. And no, I will not take your long, uninformed rants seriously by responding point by point. Can't be bothered. Go and read the Destruction of Black Civilization by Dr Chancellor Williams. Might get some knowledge into your head. Or Cheikh Anta Diop's The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality?. There is a lot you do NOT know. And do stop guessing who or where I'm from and all that inane nonsense. It's none of your business.

I have shied away from engaging in insults or jibes on this forum.
But this time I'll make an exception for you.

You see, like ignorant and silly black africans of your ilk....your ignorance shines through in bright colors.
Your ranting about garbage, rubbish or irredeemable tripe will not obscure the fact that you are another dull African who does not know his history!
I abhor black folks who have difficulty thinking.

A group of visiting European archeologists and historians come to a certain place in Nigeria to document recently discovered relics.
They hear one of your fellow deluded Afrocentrists rant about how black Africa gave the world(or is it Europe civilization).
Probably the guy must have seen that your silly thread about black moors in Spain.
Just like you the silly guy goes on about the greatness of black Egypt and Nubia...and what not.
How the pyramids were built by black africans and how africans were sailing the oceans millemiuns before the Europeans emerged from caves.
If the visiting archeologists find these claims interesting...and decide to investigate further.
How would you...a self-acclaimed knowlegdeable student of African history answer the following questions:

1) The ancient Egyptians and Nubians all had a stellar religion. They worshipped the planets, stars and constellations. We've always been curious as to what existing African peoples have in relation to ancient Egypt. So what do your tribe/ethnic group call Sothis and how did they calculate the heliacal rising of Sopdet(Greek Sothis, Roman Sirius)?


2) The Greeks had dealings with ancient Egyptians and ancient Greek historians have documented histories of Egyptian kings,religion, priests and cultural practices. If as you asserted Black Africans gave the Europeans civilization, then the source of a river should have even more waters flowing...right? So can we see your written history or hieoroglyphs or some oral history about the ancient Europeans?
You know since almost all known civilized peoples kept written records...Africa should not be an exception. After all the Egyptians and Nubians kept records?


I'm assuming you are intelligent to know that if sub-saharan black afriaca are the heirs of these ancient civilizations...remnants of their religion and culture would remain in black africa.
Go ahead, show us your deep knowledge of African history. Educate me.
How would you go about answering the above questions?

Rossikk:


You talk so much ignorant rubbish. You are happy to regale us with how wonderful Europe was, lumping them all together. Meanwhile, it was really only either Rome or Greece at their various epochs doing anything serious, while the rest of Europe lived in illiteracy, ignorance, and savagery. (Until black African Moors brought civilization to them in the Middle Ages). But you never limit their successes based on that. But Africa? Oh it was ''only'' the Ethiopians''. It was ''only'' the Nubians. It was ''only'' the Egyptians.... ''not ALL of Africa''. ''Not'' Igbos, ''Not'' Yorubas. So they can't possibly take credit for ''others''' achievements. You think like a slave, and are so deep in it you can't smell your own stinking manure. We are AFRICANS. And we DO take pride in our AFRICAN achievements. You have a problem with that, go eat dust.

On the contrary you are the one who is ignorant and goes about spewing ignorant nonsense all over the place.
From your laughable thread about how some dark skinned peoples your ancestors never heard about ruled Spain to your lumping the different peoples of Africa together...you have been writing arrant nonsense!
I have tried to point out to you the FACTS on ground...which cannot be wished away by supremacist claims.
The dark skinned peoples of Africa inhabit separate, unique and distinct cultural and political spaces!
You missed that....again and again and again.Such laughable display of ignorance for a self acclaimed historian!
I tried asking you questions that will force you to realize that...but you had to start telling me how your entire village is made up of fruitcakes who claim other people's heritage.

The culture and religion of Egypt did not rub off or pass on to sub saharan africans...not as much as we can see.
Same goes for the Nubians and Ethiopians.
The Xhosas, Zulus and other ethnic groups close to the Ethiopians did not even attempt to copy their alphabeths.
The Kanuris, Wolofs, Hausas, Mandikas...till today have no obelisks, carved basalt or granite sculptures of their kings or nobles.
Their are no hieroglyphs extant on walls or scrolls attributable to any sub saharan ethnic group alive today.
When the Europeans were brainstorming on how to decipher the Rosetta Stone...the most logical thing to do would have been to come down to sub Saharan Africa for scholars with native knowledge of ancient Egyptian writing.
You know that did not happen. Cos they knew sub saharan Africans neither wrote nor read.
They had documented histories of peoples they colonized and enslaved!
Neither did any ethnic group in sub saharan Africa have any oral history even remotely near anything Egyptian or Nubian.
On the other hand Roman,Greek, Syrian records going back 2000 years plus exist with histories of Egypt.

If you have any modicum of intelligence you should have figured out that the logical thing to do as Black Africans in such a scenario would be to start documenting what we only have....ORAL HISTORIES.
Africans in general have no documented histories....and that's a fact!
The only dark skinned peoples that do are the ones you are doodling about.
If you had to run to Wikipedia or some white man's books to learn about African history...then your history/culture is near dead.
If there is no living man in sub saharan west africa...who remembers when dark skinned peoples ruled spain...then you owe that knowledge to the whites and did not learn it from home.
If you are intelligent enough to follow the argument thus far...you would know that for posterity's sake...Africans should begin to document their own histories.
All your ranting and quoting has not included any African chief, elder or king you interviewed to gain any knowledge.
Neither has it included any ancient African temple or court you visited to retrieve scrolls for translation.
Your knowledge is entirely made up of stuff and research done by WHITE MEN.
That is not a bad thing on its own...but as I have been pointing out to you...its a sign that your history is lost to you.

If you cannot reference any native source or living source of any so called African greatness bullsh.it you keep doodling all over the place...I'd say go join the NOI and keep living in lala land!
Did your great great great great grand father know anything about Spain? Clown!

PabloAfricanus:


On the contrary you are the one who is ignorant and goes about spewing ignorant nonsense all over the place.
From your laughable thread about how some dark skinned peoples your ancestors never heard about ruled Spain to your lumping the different peoples of Africa together...you have been writing arrant nonsense!

Uncle Tom. BLACK AFRICANS ARE BLACK AFRICANS. Get that into your thick skull. An Hausa man's achievements WILL be celebrated by a Zulu. Just as a Nubian's achievements will be celebrated by an Igbo man. You see black Africans as separated and unrelated. WE DO NOT. WE ARE BLACK AFRICANS. GO AND HANG YOURSELF IF YOU HATE OUR UNITY.

Why do you even call yourself ''Africanus''? You should call yourself ''myvillageAnus'', since you see yourself as separate from other blacks.

I have tried to point out to you the FACTS on ground...which cannot be wished away by supremacist claims.
The dark skinned peoples of Africa inhabit separate, unique and distinct cultural and political spaces!

UTTER, COMPLETE HOGWASH. THIS IS THE CRAP YOU CARRY IN YOUR HEAD, which is why you are so angry WHEN WE TALK OF Pan-Africanism or speak of black Africans as a group, OR SPEAK OF BLACK AFRICAN ACHIEVEMENTS. WE ARE BLACK AFRICANS. AND WE ARE FUNDAMENTALLY ONE PEOPLE. When you take your black face to a racist congregation in America or Germany, nobody asks you there if you are Zulu, or Hausa, or Yoruba, or Wolof. You are a BLACK MAN, AND TREATED ACCORDINGLY, and that is all that counts.

The culture and religion of Egypt did not rub off or pass on to sub saharan africans...not as much as we can see.
Same goes for the Nubians and Ethiopians.

Uncle Tom, GO AND READ THE BOOKS I REFERRED YOU TO. THERE IS A MULTIPLICITY OF CULTURAL AND LINGUISTIC LINKS BETWEEN BLACK AFRICA AND ANCIENT EGYPT. GO AND READ DIOP, BERNAL, EVEN BASIL DAVIDSON. AND NO, THESE HISTORIANS PROBABLY WON'T FIND THEIR ''great great grandfather'' spitting knowledge about their subject matter - DOESN'T Make their findings any less valid, you bumbling ignoramus.

The Kanuris, Wolofs, Hausas, Mandikas...till today have no obelisks, carved basalt or granite sculptures of their kings or nobles.
Their are no hieroglyphs extant on walls or scrolls attributable to any sub saharan ethnic group alive today.

Cultural behaviours change over millenia. That black ancient Egyptians built pyramids and obelisks 5,000 years ago, does not mean their 16th century descendants would still build pyramids and obelisks, or write in hieroglyphs. ESPECIALLY when so much has happened in the period, such as the great MIGRATIONS from north to south following foreign invasions, desertification, and consequent resettlement in the forest regions, with a whole new set of resource endowments and political challenges facing them. THEREFORE, what scholars seek to find by way of connections to Nile Valley civilization has to do with CULTURAL similarities, such as Divine Kingship, Language, Bride Price, Masquerades, Religious practices etc etc. Olumide Lucas showed that the Yorubas are practically worshiping the same gods known to the Egyptians. Showed clear similarities in names, attributes or both. He even found evidence of hieroglyphic writing in his research. By the way have you heard of the Obelisk of Oranmiyan in Yorubaland?



Oloriburuku!!

When the Europeans were brainstorming on how to decipher the Rosetta Stone...the most logical thing to do would have been to come down to sub Saharan Africa for scholars with native knowledge of ancient Egyptian writing. You know that did not happen. Cos they knew sub saharan Africans neither wrote nor read.

DUNCE. GO AND READ ABOUT THE TIMBUKTU MANUSCRIPTS - MILLIONS OF VOLUMES OF PRE-COLONIAL BLACK AFRICAN WRITING COVERING A VARIETY OF SUBJECTS, STILL BEING COLLATED AND CATEGORISED TILL THIS DAY. NSIBIDI, WHICH YOU ARE TOO DUMB TO RESEARCH, WAS A FORM OF WRITING USED BY BLACK AFRICANS. THE Europeans had THEIR reasons for NOT wanting to connect black Africans with ancient Egypt. They wanted to claim Egypt for themselves!! (AND STILL DO, eg BY PARADING FAKE whitened ARTEFACTS LIKE the fake 'Nefertiti' bust AS ''ANCIENT EGYPTIAN''). You are THEIR SERVANT. Seeking to DISCONNECT US from OUR NILE VALLEY HERITAGE. But you will FAIL. Just like your masters have failed.

The foreign invaders sought to disguise the BLACKNESS of our Sphinx by cutting off its wide nose and scraping off its thick lips. THEY FAILED. WE CAN STILL TELL IT'S A BLACK MAN!!

BLACK MAN - EGYPT.

The Great Sphinx at Giza.

All your ranting and quoting has not included any African chief, elder or king you interviewed to gain any knowledge.
Neither has it included any ancient African temple or court you visited to retrieve scrolls for translation.

LYING DUNCE. I quoted Yoruba kings who quoted traditional griots in proving their ancient links to Egypt. GO BACK AND READ MY POSTS. You must be on DRUGS to suggest that unless I 'personally' interviewed anyone, I cannot write or recall MY AFRICAN HISTORY. Tell us. Are you on HEROIN?

Did your great great great great grand father know anything about Spain? Clown!

If he didn't does that mean that BLACK AFRICANS did not conquer Spain?

WALKING DUNCE! SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TAKE YOU TO YOUR VILLAGE AND WASH YOUR HEAD.

black247:


Dont bother on this forum. Start a facebook group. Select people who you think are conscientious prior to my post (because ppl can pretend post this) and invite people who you believe to be 1. African 2. black

There are too many whites on here pretending to be one of us.

This should be posted on all the boards. i noticed it last year sef and before that there was the Russian guy ish.

Ad hominems all over the place
I'm even sorry I was tempted to use foul language in my last post.
Cant you post your response without insulting someone?

Rossikk:


Uncle Tom. BLACK AFRICANS ARE BLACK AFRICANS. Get that into your thick skull. An Hausa man's achievements WILL be celebrated by a Zulu. Just as a Nubian's achievements will be celebrated by an Igbo man. You see black Africans as separated and unrelated. WE DO NOT. WE ARE BLACK AFRICANS. GO AND HANG YOURSELF IF YOU HATE OUR UNITY.

UTTER, COMPLETE HOGWASH. THIS IS THE CRAP YOU CARRY IN YOUR HEAD, which is why you are so angry WHEN WE TALK OF Pan-Africanism or speak of black Africans as a group, OR SPEAK OF BLACK AFRICAN ACHIEVEMENTS. WE ARE BLACK AFRICANS. AND WE ARE FUNDAMENTALLY ONE PEOPLE. When you take your black face to a racist congregation in America or Germany, nobody asks you there if you are Zulu, or Hausa, or Yoruba, or Wolof. You are a BLACK MAN, AND TREATED ACCORDINGLY, and that is all that counts.

Uncle Tom, GO AND READ THE BOOKS I REFERRED YOU TO. THERE IS A MULTIPLICITY OF CULTURAL AND LINGUISTIC LINKS BETWEEN BLACK AFRICA AND ANCIENT EGYPT. GO AND READ DIOP, BERNAL, EVEN BASIL DAVIDSON. AND NO, THESE HISTORIANS PROBABLY WON'T FIND THEIR ''great great grandfather'' spitting knowledge about their subject matter - DOESN'T Make their findings any less valid, you bumbling ignoramus.

Cultural behaviours change over millenia. That black ancient Egyptians built pyramids and obelisks 5,000 years ago, does not mean their 16th century descendants would still build pyramids and obelisks, or write in hieroglyphs. ESPECIALLY when so much has happened in the period, such as the great MIGRATIONS from north to south following foreign invasions, desertification, and consequent resettlement in the forest regions, with a whole new set of resource endowments and political challenges facing them. THEREFORE, what scholars seek to find by way of connections to Nile Valley civilization has to do with CULTURAL similarities, such as Divine Kingship, Language, Bride Price, Masquerades, Religious practices etc etc. Olumide Lucas showed that the Yorubas are practically worshiping the same gods known to the Egyptians. Showed clear similarities in names, attributes or both. He even found evidence of hieroglyphic writing in his research. By the way have you heard of the Obelisk of Oranmiyan in Yorubaland?

DUNCE. GO AND READ ABOUT THE TIMBUKTU MANUSCRIPTS - MILLIONS OF VOLUMES OF PRE-COLONIAL BLACK AFRICAN WRITING COVERING A VARIETY OF SUBJECTS, STILL BEING COLLATED AND CATEGORISED TILL THIS DAY. NSIBIDI, WHICH YOU ARE TOO DUMB TO RESEARCH, WAS A FORM OF WRITING USED BY BLACK AFRICANS. THE Europeans had THEIR reasons for NOT wanting to connect black Africans with ancient Egypt. They wanted to claim Egypt for themselves!! (AND STILL DO, eg BY PARADING FAKE whitened ARTEFACTS LIKE the fake 'Nefertiti' bust AS ''ANCIENT EGYPTIAN''). You are THEIR SERVANT. Seeking to DISCONNECT US from OUR NILE VALLEY HERITAGE. But you will FAIL. Just like your masters have failed.

The foreign invaders sought to disguise the BLACKNESS of our Sphinx by cutting off its wide nose and scraping off its thick lips. THEY FAILED. WE CAN STILL TELL IT'S A BLACK MAN!!

BLACK MAN - EGYPT.
The Great Sphinx at Giza.

Skipping my questions again are we? I thought I challenged you to educate me.
I will not let this great opportunity pass me by to scoop from the fount of your great and vast knowledge.
Kindly oblige me sir, lemme learn from you. Your passing on some of your great knowledge to me would be a boon.
Here lemme reproduce my questions to the highly learned one.

PabloAfricanus:
[b]
1) The ancient Egyptians and Nubians all had a stellar religion. They worshipped the planets, stars and constellations. We've always been curious as to what existing African peoples have in relation to ancient Egypt. So what do Black Africans call Sothis and how did they calculate the heliacal rising of Sopdet(Greek Sothis, Roman Sirius)?


2) The Greeks had dealings with ancient Egyptians and ancient Greek historians have documented histories of Egyptian kings,religion, priests and cultural practices. If as you asserted Black Africans gave the Europeans civilization, then the source of a river should have even more waters flowing...right? So can we see Black African written history or hieoroglyphs or some oral history about the ancient Europeans?
You know since almost all known civilized peoples kept written records...Africa should not be an exception. After all the Egyptians and Nubians kept records?

3) Give me the name for any of these planets in any African language or culture (Mars, Mercury, Venus or Jupiter).

4) Show me a written book,religious work,scholarly work, court records or historical work done in Nsibidi by Black Africans extant anywhere in Black African that was done before the Europeans came. Mind you such a body of work must be easily verifiable by going to the said place where Nsibidi was used as a form of writing. Give dates, verifiable dates. Also do not quote any European.
[/b]

When you are able to respond to any of the above...I will take you serious.


PS: I feel for you dude. As usual...your ignorance shines through...this time in brilliant colors.
You appear to lack intelligence....having said that, I can confirm you lack knowledge about what you are ranting about.
The fact that you cannot tell appropriate references from suspicious ones...clearly shows the level of ya intelligence.
Taking Olumide Lucas' work at face value , you are not even sufficiently familiar with the language or culture to pick out the holes in his write up. You apparently are not familiar with the fact that most Yoruba historians completely disregard his historical improvisations.
I wont even bother telling you why or why not Opa Oranmiyan fits the tag you put on it.
As for the Sphinx, the moment you are able to tell me what any sub saharan group call it in their native tongue...I will take you serious.
Also, ya emotive bias for historical improvisations glorifying fantastic claims to a supposed ancient african greatness...gives away ya childish rants.
Ya deep inferiority complex has so addled ya brain...you cant even see there's no need to prove a point to any one...white,yellow, brown or black. You just need to do ya own thing...pity I cant help you see that.

And yes...your openly displaying to the whole world how you insult each other in ya village...just shows you lost it.
Even if I was the one who needed schooling...ya attempt to push ya points through insults shows you up for who you are....a desktop self acclaimed pseudo-historian.
Go get some education dude...you sorely need it.
And stop tryna measure up to the whites...do ya own thing if you have the brain cells to attempt it...or continue living in lala land.

Cos you have not demonstrated familiarity with Yoruba language or traditional beliefs to make an informed decision.
I want to contribute to ya learning process.
Here's one refutation of Olumide Lucas' work for ya:

Ancient Egyptian origin of Yoruba of West Africa: A comprehensive scientific approach
by Salau, Abdulrazaq Danbaba, PhD, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY, 2007:


Abstract: This study deals with Ancient Egyptian and Yoruba of West Africa, an enduring historical problem in African historiography. This dissertation builds upon Lucas's book (Lucas 1948). The central argument of Lucas's book is that Yoruba originated from Ancient Egypt. A lot of African historians have uncritically accepted this view without corroborating their views with facts to affirm Lucas's thesis, and other strident historians like Westcott (1961), and Law (1973b) rejected Lucas arguments by challenging his linguistic method for factual flaws, and others like Law totally rejected Lucas hypothesis regarding Ancient Egyptian origin of Yoruba, both of these authors did not provide information why early Yoruba historians will be claiming Ancient Egyptian origin without any basis in history or objective reality. The rest of the historians have been ambivalent about Ancient Egyptian origin of Yoruba. The 'three schools' of Yoruba historiography: classicism, traditionalism, and pragmatism identified by Doortmont (1993) failed to resolve these issues of Ancient Egyptian origin of Yoruba. African historiography has attempted to resolve this issue of Ancient Egyptian origin of Yoruba, yet the issue remains unabated. In fact, a number of scholars have been examining this problem more or less thoroughly starting from 1942 the year which J.O. Lucas completed his doctoral dissertation. In 1948 the dissertation was published into a book. After publication of Lucas's book there have been many important developments in African history, namely accessibility to scholarly materials, new techniques, and documents which made method of doing research to change these new techniques and changes must be fully integrated into to the conduct of current research in African history. The aim of this dissertation is to resolve the issue of Ancient Egyptian origin of Yoruba. That is why it is indispensable and imperative now that after sixty-five years, to assess and evaluate this historical problem of Yoruba origin and Ancient Egyptians systematically. What I propose to do in this dissertation is to get precise facts to prove relationships between Ancient Egyptians and Yoruba of West Africa. My training in Ancient Egyptian language, and my knowledge of Yoruba and Hausa languages as a native speaker both prepare and give me competence, and understanding to explore significant research questions comprehensively.


Source : http://www.cla.temple.edu/africanamericanstudies/graduate/doctoral-dissertations-in-the-department-of-african-american-studies/

to your lumping the different peoples of Africa together...you have been writing arrant nonsense

The guy lacks knowledge in several areas, but check yoself. You too are guilty of writing arrant nonsense. So what if different peoples of Africa are lumped together? European historians lump people from Europe together all the time and call them "European." You have no problem with that. Its only when Africans follow the same procedure that then you get hysterical. Come off your pompous hypocrisy.

And on top of that, Africans share numerous commonalities- cultural, linguistic, DNA etc. The PN2 transition of Haplogroup E for example connects the majority of African males across the continent. You make these sweeping pronouncements as if you are some kind of authority but only demonstrate your ignorance.

QUOTE:
"But the Y-chromosome clade defined by the PN2 transition (PN2/M35, PN2/M2) shatters the boundaries of phenotypically defined races and true breeding populations across a great geographical expanse. African peoples with a range of skin colors, hair forms and physiognomies have substantial percentages of males whose Y chromosomes form closely related clades with each other"
-- (S O Y Keita, R A Kittles, et al. "Conceptualizing human variation," Nature Genetics 36, S17 - S20 (2004)


I have tried to point out to you the FACTS on ground...which cannot be wished away by supremacist claims.

But many of your so-called "facts" on the ground are not only erroneous but demonstrate your poor grasp of even elementary data about African and Africa. As shown in detail above and below.


The dark skinned peoples of Africa inhabit separate, unique and distinct cultural and political spaces!

Laughable nonsense. Why would dark skinned Africans inhabit "unique" and "separate" spaces? Do white people do likewise, or is it only black people in your ignorant fantasy world.? No dummy. They are not "separate." Dark skinned Africans appear everywhere from the Berbers of Algeria, to the pharaohs of Egypt to the Bantu of Zimbabwe. You cannot even grasp such an elementary fact in your ignorance. And by the way, Africans have the highest skin color diversity in the world- among other features- dummy.

[img]http://4.bp..com/-OX7hXrlASZc/U8ataZ3p8TI/AAAAAAAABCM/xxVm4h3JweY/s1600/tropical_african_diversity_nakt.jpg[/img]


You missed that....again and again and again.

Actually he "missed" yet another slab of BS you have been huffing and puffing about..


The culture and religion of Egypt did not rub off or pass on to sub saharan africans...not as much as we can see.

Ignoramus, your "vision" then is of a blind man. As shown by credible scholars again and again, the native religion of Egypt is based on African cultures and peoples near to Egypt- from the cattle cults to the king as divine rainmaker. Anyone with even a basic knowledge of African anthropology knows this. You apparently are clueless. Let's school you again:

"A large number of gods go back to prehistoric times. The images of a cow and star goddess (Hathor), the falcon (Horus), and the human-shaped figures of the fertility god (Min) can be traced back to that period. Some rites, such as the "running of the Apil-bull," the "hoeing of the ground," and other fertility and hunting rites (e.g., the hippopotamus hunt) presumably date from early times.. Connections with the religions in southwest Asia cannot be traced with certainty."
"It is doubtful whether Osiris can be regarded as equal to Tammuz or Adonis, or whether Hathor is related to the "Great Mother." There are closer relations with northeast African religions. The numerous animal cults (especially bovine cults and panther gods) and details of ritual dresses (animal tails, masks, grass aprons, etc) probably are of African origin. The kinship in particular shows some African elements, such as the king as the head ritualist (i.e., medicine man), the limitations and renewal of the reign (jubilees, regicide), and the position of the king's mother (a matriarchal element). Some of them can be found among the Ethiopians in Napata and Meroe, others among the Prenilotic tribes (Shilluk)."
(Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. Macropedia Article, Vol 6: "Egyptian Religion" , pg 506-508)



Same goes for the Nubians and Ethiopians.
The Xhosas, Zulus and other ethnic groups close to the Ethiopians did not even attempt to copy their alphabeths.

Dude, the Nubians had their own alphabet in ancient times long before Christ. Ethiopia, which by the way IS in "sub-Saharan" Africa also had writing ling before Christ. In West Africa, writing scripts appear - the Nisibidi scripts, long before the Arabs appeared. You don't know what you are talking about- even though the issue has already been discussed on these forums.
https://www.nairaland.com/973985/nsibiri-pre-colonial-writing-south-eastern

" QUOTE:
"However, such systems are also found in areas where Muslim influence has been less strong or is unlikely. Thus, among the Ashanti and other Akan-speaking peoples of Ghana and Cote D'Ivorie, where gold was of great political, economic and symbolic significance, many gold-weights bore signs that indicated their precise ponderal value; other signs corresponded to proverbs, while others represented concepts (for example, certain aspects of the Supreme Being). The nsibidi system of the Ekoi, Igbo and Ibibio peoples of the Cross River area of present-day Nigeria used over a thousand signs to represent a considerable number of concepts as well as some sounds. Nsibidi was used to record court cases and convey complex messages, including warnings in wartime, and for summarizing folktales and personal narratives; its pictograms thus constituted a true writing system. As with the Malian systems of graphic signs, knowledge of nsibidi was often acquired within the initiation societies, but unlike the Malian ones, nsibidi signs were often tattooed on the body or dramatically enacted through gestures."
--Kevin Shllingford (2004) "Literacy and Indigenous Scripts: Pre-colonial West Africa" - Encyclopedia of African History


The Kanuris, Wolofs, Hausas, Mandikas...till today have no obelisks, carved basalt or granite sculptures of their kings or nobles.

This is supposed to be some kind of big "talking point"? The Swedes, Danes, British, Irish, Scots, or Germans never came up with any obelisks and such either in ancient times. How may giant stele appear in ultra white Sweden in ancient times? LMAO.. And in fact, "sub-Saharan" Africa, in the form of Axum, produced the largest or one of the largest stone monoliths in human history. What similar has been produced by ultra white Norway?

QUOTE:
(QUOTE:
"The early Askumites built in stone. They erected massive carved monoliths over the graves of their leaders (one was 33 meters long and weighed over 700 tonnes, arguably the largest single piece of worked stone ever hewn."
--John Reader, 1997. Africa: The Biography of the continent pg 208


Their are no hieroglyphs extant on walls or scrolls attributable to any sub saharan ethnic group alive today.
Laughable BS. Ancient Nubian via the empire of Meroe, extended into "sub-Saharan" Africa as part of the Kushite southern administration, a fact obscured by the southern spread of the desert for centuries. And Axum, in the Horn is also "sub-Saharan". And by the way- Nubians have been in Egypt for thousands of years, including not only the founding period, but being pharaohs as well, long BEFORE the 25th Dynasty.

[img]http://4.bp..com/_70QeGoT_fmI/StlDy3phTfI/AAAAAAAAAUU/ElOu9cANVNE/s1600/nubianegyptianlinks.jpg[/img]


Cos they knew sub saharan Africans neither wrote nor read.

Actually dude, researchers have known for some time about writing in "sub-Saharan" Africa, including Kush/Meroe, the Horn and the Nsibidi script systems that existed before the Arabs showed up. It is you who keep continually manifesting YOUR ignorance.

[img]http://3.bp..com/-pp2dqYhA26E/VMOYwET0FzI/AAAAAAAABV0/EydNeaY-9VE/s1600/kush_sub_saharan_entity.jpg[/img]


Neither did any ethnic group in sub saharan Africa have any oral history even remotely near anything Egyptian or Nubian.
Hapless bufoon, the empire of Kush was in part a sub-Saharan one, with both written and oral records. the empires of the Horn are also "sub-Saharan." An ignoramus like you does not even knw such simple African geography.


If you have any modicum of intelligence you should have figured out that the logical thing to do as Black Africans in such a scenario would be to start documenting what we only have....ORAL HISTORIES.

lol, YOUR laughable ignorance has already been exposed and debunked above..


Africans in general have no documented histories....and that's a fact!

Are you always this dumb, or making a special effort today, oh thou fount of bogus "fact?"


All your ranting and quoting has not included any African chief, elder or king you interviewed to gain any knowledge.

He doesn't need to go out and interview any "chief." Credible research by mainstream scholars already make the case, as shown above.



Your knowledge is entirely made up of stuff and research done by WHITE MEN.
That is not a bad thing on its own...but as I have been pointing out to you...its a sign that your history is lost to you.

lol, what so now you supposed to be some kind of "black nationalist"? Get outta here with that bogus act- you aren't fooling anybody. No true black nationalist would advance the bullshiit you are doing. You have tripped yourself up and given away the game. But let's play along for now. So what if he uses white scholars? Cheikh Anta Diop quoted white scholars all the time, so did George James, so did Marcus Garvey. If you have a problem with things written by white people, why are you here, writing in English, a white man's language, and spouting the ignorance of white racists like Africans have no documented history... lol


If you cannot reference any native source or living source of any so called African greatness bullsh.it you keep doodling all over the place...I'd say go join the NOI and keep living in lala land!


Again you demonstrate sheer ignorance. There are already plenty of "native" sources about Africa n history. he Egyptians left plenty behind, As did the Kushites. As did the empires of the Horn, as did localized West African cultures through their specialists like blacksmiths that kept some nsibidi scripts, to the well documented oral histories f the West African griots. You simply do not know what you are talking about, and spout off like you are such a big expert, when your own lack of knowledge keeps getting exposed time and time again, as detailed above. Next time, learn some elementary African history and geography before presuming to spout off about it.

End of today's lesson.

delishpot:
My dear people of Africa, I was wondering today, how can we as a continent break free from western destruction? It is clear the western world is destroying Africa. Using our own brothers and sisters to destroy our dear continent. Using our faith, our greed, our anger, our hate and our inability to see life beyound "today and now" to destroy us. Please how do we break free from all this and creat a beautiful green continent called Africa? Please lets rub minds and see what we can do o.
The news around the world don tire me. Africans are now seen as the pests invading modern worlds. Biko how do we save Africa and save the face of the Black man?

The first thing to do is to get rid of foreign religions. Accepting an imported Alien Religion has killed our peoples minds!. Africans dont know the consequences of accepting AN ALIEN RELIGION. If an African accepts Judaism and Christianity as his religion, he has accepted the Caucasian as his visible God. The same with Islam, if an African person accepts Al Islam and its many branches as his religion, then it accepts the Desert Arab as his God. That person cannot have power over, or be equal to the Caucasian, or Arab because here, the Caucasian and the Arab has been accepted as the superior power, and this is why trying to obtain liberty and equality in Caucasian or Arab religion or any alien religion is a CRUEL HOAX! If you look at all of the so called Holy Books that our people are into, they all portray the image of someone other than self. There is not a face of Black/African people of any of these imported religions. To divide Africans they have manipulated religion to an extent that it trains Africans to become mental slaves to Caucasians through Christianity and Arabs through Islam. Remember you are the original people of the planet earth yet you are following another races view as to who or what god is according to them. That’s why Caucasians will make bible prophets white looking and Arabs will make their prophets look like their race.

@Zarahanair
Are you that cowardly?
Switch back to your earlier moniker if you wanna reply me with a straight face.
And you keep on confirming my assertions again and again...Kush this, Axum here, Egypt that...the WHOLE WORLD KNOWS the history of Kush/Axum/Egypt...and it is not synonymous with sub saharan africa. Except maybe in your parallel fantasy african content.

You see...you practically worship the achievements of those ancient peoples!
I can see how much you wish there was a temple to Ra, Horus or Hathor somewhere in ya village where you could refer me to view some scrolls in nsibidi abi na ancient RosskyVillage script
Have you googled what the heliacal rising of Sirius is yet? Or when are you gonna show the equivalents of the temples found in Nubia TODAY...in ya fantasy sub saharan west africa?

You.are.dull dude.and.grossly.ignorant.of.african.history.
Conflating desire with reality seems to be ya stock in trade.
I'd not bother to point out to you the silliness of all that mosaic mish mash you put up there...cos I doubt if you are aware of how offpoint your arguments are.

Since you keep on avoiding my attempts to learn from your cowardly majesty...here let me reproduce ma questions.


[b]1) The ancient Egyptians and Nubians all had a stellar religion. They worshipped the planets, stars and constellations. We've always been curious as to what existing African peoples have in relation to ancient Egypt. So what do Black Africans call Sothis and how did they calculate the heliacal rising of Sopdet(Greek Sothis, Roman Sirius)?


2) The Greeks had dealings with ancient Egyptians and ancient Greek historians have documented histories of Egyptian kings,religion, priests and cultural practices. If as you asserted Black Africans gave the Europeans civilization, then the source of a river should have even more waters flowing...right? So can we see Black African written history or hieoroglyphs or some oral history about the ancient Europeans?
You know since almost all known civilized peoples kept written records...Africa should not be an exception. After all the Egyptians and Nubians kept records?

3) Give me the name for any of these planets in any African language or culture (Mars, Mercury, Venus or Jupiter).

4) Show me a written book,religious work,scholarly work, court records or historical work done in Nsibidi by Black Africans extant anywhere in Black African that was done before the Europeans came. Mind you such a body of work must be easily verifiable by going to the said place where Nsibidi was used as a form of writing. Give dates, verifiable dates. Also do not quote any European.
[/b]

First, break free globalized/western- friendly economic system, create our independent and African centered economic system. This will not be easy because countries that do not adhere to the WTO/Western oriented policies are punished by embargoes, seclusion, and are politically crippled.

Second, empowerment of Africans.
Africans need to be trained towards self realisation, not to be perpetual employees, dependent, and our school curricula needs to change. People need to learn things that will help them start their own businesses, multiply profits from farms which most Africans have, or better their livestock production. With this is an element of environmentalism.

Third, Change our political western imported system.
The root of all government corruption, stealing, pillaging...is competition. Tribal rivalry. State resources are perceived as a means of benefiting of the rulers kin/tribe and as a weapon against the rest. It's in Africa where you find winners of election making careless statements like "it's our time (to eat)"
Democracy needs to be seriously recast to factor in and make election results do not sideline a whole people/tribe. Democracy in Africa is a tribal contest. It is the reason why, after a democratic election, Burundi is now up in flames.

The rule that majority wins is inapplicable in Africa. Majority will always mean the most populous tribes.

Culturally, Africa needs to break free of over dependence on the west for news broadcasts, films, literature etc. It is through these means that subliminal messages of supremacy of the West and inferiority of Africa(ns) is passed.

Indoctrination of ideals, beliefs, propaganda and justification of western policies toward Africa also happens through these means. That is why Africans are slowly turning western in culture, speech, music, dressing, colour, hair, etc

Horus:


The first thing to do is to get rid of foreign religions. Accepting an imported Alien Religion has killed our peoples minds!. Africans dont know the consequences of accepting AN ALIEN RELIGION. If an African accepts Judaism and Christianity as his religion, he has accepted the Caucasian as his visible God. The same with Islam, if an African person accepts Al Islam and its many branches as his religion, then it accepts the Desert Arab as his God. That person cannot have power over, or be equal to the Caucasian, or Arab because here, the Caucasian and the Arab has been accepted as the superior power, and this is why trying to obtain liberty and equality in Caucasian or Arab religion or any alien religion is a CRUEL HOAX! If you look at all of the so called Holy Books that our people are into, they all portray the image of someone other than self. There is not a face of Black/African people of any of these imported religions. To divide Africans they have manipulated religion to an extent that it trains Africans to become mental slaves to Caucasians through Christianity and Arabs through Islam. Remember you are the original people of the planet earth yet you are following another races view as to who or what god is according to them. That’s why Caucasians will make bible prophets white looking and Arabs will make their prophets look like their race.

I get yout point. We have scrificed our souls on the alter of religion. We can not do what is right if our religion frowns at it. That is a big sore we Africans have to deal with. We have to put our Continent first before anything else. The world players are taking advantage of our own hatred for each other and using it as a tool to introduce other factors to increase our problems. So the north hates the east? Lets add religion to it to create an even wider gap so they can never be genuinely united as religion and beliefs are a few of the factors that trully unites a people.
But what religion do we pick? Can you see that we cann never agree and unite if the basis of our unity is based on religion alone?
What other ways can we enforce and uphold unity and economic growth in Africa?

If Africa can improve its economic situation, make it difficult for her people to run abroad and also make it even more difficult for outside influence to come into Africa, I think will profit the continent. This is just my personal oppinion.

I would suggest reducing the number of countries in Africa to no more than 3. Southern Africa, Central Africa, and North Africa. Finish. Those 3 can form a confederation down the line. The main benefit of this would be greater centralisation of decision making power, so vital in a resource-rich region like Africa wishing to prevent foreign exploitation and dictate commodity prices. Today we are price takers rather than price givers on the international market because no country is large enough to dictate commodity prices, and can easily be undercut by rival nations if it seeks to demand more for its exports. With greater political unification we can dictate commodity prices, and get a LOT more than we're getting, ending the need for foreign aid etc, and developing our economies in no time. Expect a lot of resistance from the west if we go down this route. We need measures put in place to checkmate their attempts at sabotaging the developments.

look at Nigeria, we r struggling to keep this country united, now imagine over 1000 different tribes, with different ways of life, language, behavioural pattern and religion, plus illiteracy in one country!! don't forget most citizens of African countries hate each other, take a look at the military and threads to understand.

To break away from western control, we need good leaders. Leaders who are visionary and good diplomatically, leaders who can get things done. Also there has to be a huge sense of nationalism and pan Africanism. If the younger generations are well educated, and brought up with patronism it would take time but would happen. Also Africa needs to become financial stable and industrialised no more foreign aids and benefit, the world has to see us as a major contributor not a collector. Plus we need a stronger African union, if the regional powers in Africa (Nigeria, Egypt,South Africa, Ethiopia etc) can come together a lot of issues would be solved. I feel education is the key along with a sense of National pride and brotherhood

Rossikk:


I would suggest you start with the Destruction of Black Civilization - Great Issues of a Race from 4500BC to 2000AD by Dr Chancellor Williams. This book has been called the black man's bible. The late Dr Williams was an African-American historian who spent 10 years and visited 25 African countries in the course of his research and field studies to put together this work. If you read nothing about African history, read this.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Destruction-Black-Civilization-Issues-4500BC/dp/0883780305

I'm also interested, but my major problem with reading is I don't have access to cash to buy books (I just finished secondary school). do u have d eBook so you could send it to me?

Rossikk I will be hoping for many more of your type

Adelz:
I'm also interested, but my major problem with reading is I don't have access to cash to buy books (I just finished secondary school). do u have d eBook so you could send it to me?

Download from any of these


https://www.google.rs/search?q=Destruction+of+Black+Civilization%3A+Great+Issues+of+a+Race+from+4500BC+to+2000AD&client=ms-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#q=the+destruction+of+black+civilization+pdf

Adelz:
look at Nigeria, we r struggling to keep this country united, now imagine over 1000 different tribes, with different ways of life, language, behavioural pattern and religion, plus illiteracy in one country!! don't forget most citizens of African countries hate each other, take a look at the military and threads to understand.

Exactly my no 1 worry.

Check out up to date sites like Egyptsearch Reloaded which has updated
information on the above topics. Chancellor Williams et al is good background but
dated- he wrote his book in 1970 for example. The field has long since moved on.
Do not fall into the trap of relying only on old writings. Eurocentrics want this because
then they can say- Oh! what old stuff. 1970! We have fresh, new modern info from the 2000s, etc. etc..
Its a typical setup- and you will find certain people exclusively quoting old writings as part of the trap.
Use updated info. There is plenty of it out there debunking Eurocentric bigots.
http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/15/basic-database-nile-valley-studies

But some of the old classic stuff has been validated by new, DNA and skeletal analysis.
Let's look at Diop's notion of African migration to Europe for example. Turns out
he was right on several counts.

FIRST DIOP ON EUROCENTRIC HYPOCRISY -spiced version

ANCIENT EUROPEANS LIKE CRO-MAGNONS SOMETIMES SHOW AFRICAN FEATURES

AFRICANS HAVE THE HIGHEST PHENOTYPIC DIVERSITY- THEY CAN LOOK LIKE ALMOST ANY OTHER PEOPLE

AFRICANS WERE IN THE CLOSEST POSITION TO MIGRATE TO EUROPE AND COULD LOOK LIKE ANCIENT NEW GUINEA PEOPLE FOR EXAMPLE THEY BOTH BEING DARK SKINNED TROPICAL PEOPLES

delishpot:



Download from any of these


https://www.google.rs/search?q=Destruction+of+Black+Civilization%3A+Great+Issues+of+a+Race+from+4500BC+to+2000AD&client=ms-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#q=the+destruction+of+black+civilization+pdf

macof:
Unification of africa? When you cannot unify a single region say West africa

This is a fantasy cause I don't see this happening without a military conquest and political domination of one African state

Yes, I think unification is problematic given Africa's great fragmentation and diversity.
Europe achieved "unity" in ancient times due to conquering Roman hegemony.
In other words, a central power strong enough to crack heads and kick ass.
This laid the basis for today's EU among other things, but even that in part is
due to the presence of a centra hegemon- the United States as counterbalance to
another threatening hegemon- Soviet Union during the Cold War which was not long ago.

Absent such a history, these days in Africa, there may be room for a sort of diplomatic/talking
shop type unity, and on a smaller scale, regional groupings.

PabloAfricanus:
@Zarahanair
Are you that cowardly?
Switch back to your earlier moniker if you wanna reply me with a straight face.
And you keep on confirming my assertions again and again...Kush this, Axum here, Egypt that...the WHOLE WORLD KNOWS the history of Kush/Axum/Egypt...and it is not synonymous with sub saharan africa. Except maybe in your parallel fantasy african content.

You see...you practically worship the achievements of those ancient peoples!
I can see how much you wish there was a temple to Ra, Horus or Hathor somewhere in ya village where you could refer me to view some scrolls in nsibidi abi na ancient RosskyVillage script
Have you googled what the heliacal rising of Sirius is yet? Or when are you gonna show the equivalents of the temples found in Nubia TODAY...in ya fantasy sub saharan west africa?

You.are.dull dude.and.grossly.ignorant.of.african.history.
Conflating desire with reality seems to be ya stock in trade.
I'd not bother to point out to you the silliness of all that mosaic mish mash you put up there...cos I doubt if you are aware of how offpoint your arguments are.

Since you keep on avoiding my attempts to learn from your cowardly majesty...here let me reproduce ma questions.


[b]1) The ancient Egyptians and Nubians all had a stellar religion. They worshipped the planets, stars and constellations. We've always been curious as to what existing African peoples have in relation to ancient Egypt. So what do Black Africans call Sothis and how did they calculate the heliacal rising of Sopdet(Greek Sothis, Roman Sirius)?


2) The Greeks had dealings with ancient Egyptians and ancient Greek historians have documented histories of Egyptian kings,religion, priests and cultural practices. If as you asserted Black Africans gave the Europeans civilization, then the source of a river should have even more waters flowing...right? So can we see Black African written history or hieoroglyphs or some oral history about the ancient Europeans?
You know since almost all known civilized peoples kept written records...Africa should not be an exception. After all the Egyptians and Nubians kept records?

3) Give me the name for any of these planets in any African language or culture (Mars, Mercury, Venus or Jupiter).

4) Show me a written book,religious work,scholarly work, court records or historical work done in Nsibidi by Black Africans extant anywhere in Black African that was done before the Europeans came. Mind you such a body of work must be easily verifiable by going to the said place where Nsibidi was used as a form of writing. Give dates, verifiable dates. Also do not quote any European.
[/b]

ha hahahah,, first of all, if you don't like "quoting Europeans" why are you writing in English, a European language, and yoself quoting or referencing European works? What sources are YOU using in your "questions"? List them please, and do not use any European sources. Let's apply your own standard- to yourself. lmao.. And I have no "other" user name.

As to your "questions" lets expose your nonsense, but first your absurdities and lack of elementary knowledge are to be exposed:


he WHOLE WORLD KNOWS the history of Kush/Axum/Egypt...and it is not synonymous with sub saharan africa. Except maybe in your parallel fantasy african content.

You are hopeless. Learn some elementary geography. Axum IS in Sub-Saharan Africa, as is part of the kingdom of Kush. And the foundational population of ancient Egypt came from south of the Sahara as credible anthropologists and archaeologists show, and even non-specialist classicists like Mary Lefkowitz acknowledges. Sorry, you have just been debunked. But let's school you further..


Or when are you gonna show the equivalents of the temples found in Nubia TODAY...in ya fantasy sub saharan west africa?
Your "talking point" here fails because it is hypocritical. You conveniently don't apply the same approach to indigenous ancient northern Europe. No equivalent of the huge Greek temples appear in indigenous ancient northern Europe either. There is no equivalent of the Parthenon for example in ancient Sweden home of ultra pure white "Nordics". Massive carved statutes to Zeus do not appear in ancient Germany either, another "Nordic" poster boy. So if you are gonna play the hypocritical game and try to imply that West Africa needs such things for "validation" then the same must be applied to indigenous ancient northern Europe, which does not have any of such "validating" constructions either. "Sub-Saharan" Africa by the way produced the largest single carved stone monolith in human history (John Reader-1998- Africa: The Biography of a continent)



Now let's get to your so-called "questions"..

1) The ancient Egyptians and Nubians all had a stellar religion. They worshipped the planets, stars and constellations. We've always been curious as to what existing African peoples have in relation to ancient Egypt. So what do Black Africans call Sothis and how did they calculate the heliacal rising of Sopdet(Greek Sothis, Roman Sirius)?

Clueless one- the ancient Egyptians ARE Black Africans, as are the Nubians, as are Ethiopians, as shown time and time again by credible mainstream scholars. There goes your "talking point Number 1".. lmao..


2) The Greeks had dealings with ancient Egyptians and ancient Greek historians have documented histories of Egyptian kings,religion, priests and cultural practices. If as you asserted Black Africans gave the Europeans civilization, then the source of a river should have even more waters flowing...right? So can we see Black African written history or hieoroglyphs or some oral history about the ancient Europeans? You know since almost all known civilized peoples kept written records...Africa should not be an exception. After all the Egyptians and Nubians kept records?

I did not "assert" that "black africans gave Europeans civilization" - so come off that fake strawman you are setting up to "refute." You aren't fooling anyone with that nonsense. But let's play along- for your own strawman trips you up. Yes the black Africans, including Ethiopians, who by the way are "sub-Saharan" did keep records, and they are recorded in numerous tombs and temples in the Nile Valley, along with surviving papyri, books and admin records, and said records do mention European locations with which they traded like Greece for example. Whoops- there goes your "talking point Number 2".. lol..


3) Give me the name for any of these planets in any African language or culture (Mars, Mercury, Venus or Jupiter).

The Black Africans of the Nile Valley recorded said planets in their own language on the walls of tombs, temples and admin records as already noted above.. Look up the Egyptian and Nubian languages yourself. The burden of proof is on you. And the peoples of Ethiopia have long identified said planets in their own ancient Geez language. Look it up yourself, no one is going to spoonfeed you.
https://tseday./2008/09/14/ethiopian-astronomy/
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/world/heavens.html#obj99.1


4) Show me a written book,religious work,scholarly work, court records or historical work done in Nsibidi by Black Africans extant anywhere in Black African that was done before the Europeans came. Mind you such a body of work must be easily verifiable by going to the said place where Nsibidi was used as a form of writing. Give dates, verifiable dates. Also do not quote any European.

I have already given credible scholarship that testifies to the use of Nsibidi for histories, court records etc, before Europeans came. It is quite enough. The burden of proof is on you to disprove what the scholars report. And If you are so concerned by EUropean sources- then be consistent and apply the same rule to yourself- you should not be using them either. As to Nsibidi:


"However, such systems are also found in areas where Muslim influence has been less strong or is unlikely. Thus, among the Ashanti and other Akan-speaking peoples of Ghana and Cote D'Ivorie, where gold was of great political, economic and symbolic significance, many goldweights bore signs that indicated their precise ponderal value; other signs corresponded to proverbs, while others represented concepts (for example, certain aspects of the Supreme Being). The nsibidi system of the Ekoi, Igbo and Ibibio peoples of the Cross River area of present-day Nigeria used over a thousand signs to represent a considerable number of concepts as well as some sounds. Nsibidi was used to record court cases and convey complex messages, including warnings in wartime, and for summarizing folktales and personal narratives; its pictograms thus constituted a true writing system. As with the Malian systems of graphic signs, knowledge of nsibidi was often acquired within the initiation societies, but unlike the Malian ones, nsibidi signs were often tattooed on the body or dramatically enacted through gestures."
--Kevin Shllingford (2004) "Literacy and Indigenous Scripts: Pre-colonial West Africa" - Encyclopedia of African History


and

Historian Ogbu Kalu described the functions of the Nsibidi literature more broadly to comprise “identity label, public notice, private warning, declaration of taboos [and] amorous messages, reckoning of goods and money, and method of keeping of records and decorations.”
Kalu, O. 1980. “Writing in Pre-Colonial Africa: A Case Study of Nsibidi.” In African Cultural Development. O. Kalu, ed., 76-83.

Trying to set up fake strawman arguments by claiming some other user account started them, and that you are "replying" to "refute" them fails miserably. They still remain strawmen. Deal with the data at hand, which debunks your claims and approach.

Almost forgot about this thread.
After going through your repeating the same thing over and over, its clear I'd have to retort to rehashing my points too for you.
You see you appear to lack intelligence.
I can see you are driven by a need to "measure up"...just like many of your ignorant ilk who go on and on about African histories they
know next to nothing about.
I will rehash in plain language my points for your benefit.

Zarahanair:


ha hahahah,, first of all, if you don't like "quoting Europeans" why are you writing in English, a European language, and yoself quoting or referencing European works? What sources are YOU using in your "questions"? List them please, and do not use any European sources. Let's apply your own standard- to yourself. lmao.. And I have no "other" user name.

First off, it was not the Europeans who are "claiming" ancient Egypt using "sources" foreign to them.
THEY conquered and ruled Egypt...severally under the Greeks, Romans, French and English.
And they have better records and histories about Egypt than anyone in sub saharan Africa.
You could start by disproving that point.
To illustrate the fact that this topic is way over you, the Europeans have the AVAILABLE WRITTEN works of European historians
like Herodotus, Aristotle, Socrates, Julius Caesar to reference when they discuss Egypt or any other peoples they had historical dealings with.
So they have never had any need to quote you, your grandfather or your village chiefs...who by the way they know NEVER left any WRITTEN records available ANYWHERE for referencing.
Your colonial masters produced comprehensive and publicly available "intelligence reports" on all the tribes/ethnic groups they pacified.
Their records, photographs and comments are largely what you and your ilk fall back on when they need academic references on precolonial history.
So, the joke is on you. The onus is on you to prove to me why you cannot tell your story without referencing "external" or "foreign" sources.
A mere challenge to tell me what any of the over 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria or any of the ethnic groups in sub Saharan africa call the Sphinx was of course conveniently ignored in your frenzy to "debunk" my assertions.

Zarahanair:

As to your "questions" lets expose your nonsense, but first your absurdities and lack of elementary knowledge are to be exposed:


he WHOLE WORLD KNOWS the history of Kush/Axum/Egypt...and it is not synonymous with sub saharan africa. Except maybe in your parallel fantasy african content.

You are hopeless. Learn some elementary geography. Axum IS in Sub-Saharan Africa, as is part of the kingdom of Kush. And the foundational population of ancient Egypt came from south of the Sahara as credible anthropologists and archaeologists show, and even non-specialist classicists like Mary Lefkowitz acknowledges. Sorry, you have just been debunked. But let's school you further..
Or when are you gonna show the equivalents of the temples found in Nubia TODAY...in ya fantasy sub saharan west africa?
Your "talking point" here fails because it is hypocritical. You conveniently don't apply the same approach to indigenous ancient northern Europe. No equivalent of the huge Greek temples appear in indigenous ancient northern Europe either. There is no equivalent of the Parthenon for example in ancient Sweden home of ultra pure white "Nordics". Massive carved statutes to Zeus do not appear in ancient Germany either, another "Nordic" poster boy. So if you are gonna play the hypocritical game and try to imply that West Africa needs such things for "validation" then the same must be applied to indigenous ancient northern Europe, which does not have any of such "validating" constructions either. "Sub-Saharan" Africa by the way produced the largest single carved stone monolith in human history (John Reader-1998- Africa: The Biography of a continent)

You are the one who has been playing the validation game. Not me. I have reiterated that going the route you lots are following is just
playing "catch up" with the whites. A son of a rich man only needs to display his father's wealth. No need for long arguments or theses or validation.
The Swedes you mentioned do not go about claiming Rome or her imperial history.
Neither are they going about coming up with claims and counter claims about the Greek Pantheon.
The temples of Odin and Freya at Upsalla are there for anyone who wants to know about ancient Swedish history.

You lots are the ones trying so hard to prove ancestory/links between ancient Egypt, Nubia...and the numerous ethnic groups in sub Saharan African.

The fact that you consider Kush, Axum, Nubia...a people long gone from the pages of living history, whose only claim to having lived are the numerous artifacts they left...are an extension of the living sub Saharan peoples of Africa...show the level of your inferiority complex.
Let me help you out. A better way to "expose" my so-called "lack of elementary knowledge" would go along these lines:
"Come to Douala,Bini, Kano, Kumasi, Ouagadogou,Kinshasa and see the same pyramids available in Nubia. The same hieroglyphs you see in the tombs of Kerma and Nubia are faithfully replicated all across the peoples of the african continent. You would show and prove that the same way pyramids and megalithic structures found in Egypt were found to be the same as the ones found in Nubia...that existing structures in TODAYS sub-saharan Africa prove the unbroken lineage of the inheritors of ancient Egyptian and Nubian greatness.
Infact you would also upload one of those your mosaic mashups comparing the hieroglyphs and pyramids found in Nubia and OTHER places in SUB SAHARAN africa.
Care to take on the challenge?

Zarahanair:

Now let's get to your so-called "questions"..

1) The ancient Egyptians and Nubians all had a stellar religion. They worshipped the planets, stars and constellations. We've always been curious as to what existing African peoples have in relation to ancient Egypt. So what do Black Africans call Sothis and how did they calculate the heliacal rising of Sopdet(Greek Sothis, Roman Sirius)?

Clueless one- the ancient Egyptians ARE Black Africans, as are the Nubians, as are Ethiopians, as shown time and time again by credible mainstream scholars. There goes your "talking point Number 1".. lmao..


2) The Greeks had dealings with ancient Egyptians and ancient Greek historians have documented histories of Egyptian kings,religion, priests and cultural practices. If as you asserted Black Africans gave the Europeans civilization, then the source of a river should have even more waters flowing...right? So can we see Black African written history or hieoroglyphs or some oral history about the ancient Europeans? You know since almost all known civilized peoples kept written records...Africa should not be an exception. After all the Egyptians and Nubians kept records?

I did not "assert" that "black africans gave Europeans civilization" - so come off that fake strawman you are setting up to "refute." You aren't fooling anyone with that nonsense. But let's play along- for your own strawman trips you up. Yes the black Africans, including Ethiopians, who by the way are "sub-Saharan" did keep records, and they are recorded in numerous tombs and temples in the Nile Valley, along with surviving papyri, books and admin records, and said records do mention European locations with which they traded like Greece for example. Whoops- there goes your "talking point Number 2".. lol..


3) Give me the name for any of these planets in any African language or culture (Mars, Mercury, Venus or Jupiter).

The Black Africans of the Nile Valley recorded said planets in their own language on the walls of tombs, temples and admin records as already noted above.. Look up the Egyptian and Nubian languages yourself. The burden of proof is on you. And the peoples of Ethiopia have long identified said planets in their own ancient Geez language. Look it up yourself, no one is going to spoonfeed you.
https://tseday./2008/09/14/ethiopian-astronomy/
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/world/heavens.html#obj99.1

There you go...The Black Africans of the Nile Valley
Are you not proud of the Wolofs, Fulanis, Mandinkas, Bantus, Yorubas and Zulus?
Are the The Black Africans of the Nile Valley the only people with any history, culture or achievements worth celebrating?
Let me show you how ignorant and nonsensical your postulations are:
1) You still have not told me what the Wolofs or Yorubas call Venus or Jupiter. On demand you can actually google what the Indians, Chinese, Aztec, Mayas, Babylonians, Persians, Arabs, Romans, Greeks,Chinese...and Ethiopians...call any of the known planets in the solar system.
You know as much as I do that you DO NOT KNOW what either the Hausas, Yorubas, Igbos, Efiks, Ashante call any of the known planets.
Or maybe you want to share your knowledge?
2) You asserted that "black africans gave Europeans civilization" by your all the proofs and claims of your Afrocentric postulations, which I'd rather not rehash.
3) Why are you just stuck on only the Ethiopians, Nubians and Egyptians? Are they the only groups of BLACK PEOPLES living in Africa?
Does your own ethnic group not count for anything?

Zarahanair:

4) Show me a written book,religious work,scholarly work, court records or historical work done in Nsibidi by Black Africans extant anywhere in Black African that was done before the Europeans came. Mind you such a body of work must be easily verifiable by going to the said place where Nsibidi was used as a form of writing. Give dates, verifiable dates. Also do not quote any European.

I have already given credible scholarship that testifies to the use of Nsibidi for histories, court records etc, before Europeans came. It is quite enough. The burden of proof is on you to disprove what the scholars report. And If you are so concerned by EUropean sources- then be consistent and apply the same rule to yourself- you should not be using them either. As to Nsibidi:


"However, such systems are also found in areas where Muslim influence has been less strong or is unlikely. Thus, among the Ashanti and other Akan-speaking peoples of Ghana and Cote D'Ivorie, where gold was of great political, economic and symbolic significance, many goldweights bore signs that indicated their precise ponderal value; other signs corresponded to proverbs, while others represented concepts (for example, certain aspects of the Supreme Being). The nsibidi system of the Ekoi, Igbo and Ibibio peoples of the Cross River area of present-day Nigeria used over a thousand signs to represent a considerable number of concepts as well as some sounds. Nsibidi was used to record court cases and convey complex messages, including warnings in wartime, and for summarizing folktales and personal narratives; its pictograms thus constituted a true writing system. As with the Malian systems of graphic signs, knowledge of nsibidi was often acquired within the initiation societies, but unlike the Malian ones, nsibidi signs were often tattooed on the body or dramatically enacted through gestures."
--Kevin Shllingford (2004) "Literacy and Indigenous Scripts: Pre-colonial West Africa" - Encyclopedia of African History


and

Historian Ogbu Kalu described the functions of the Nsibidi literature more broadly to comprise “identity label, public notice, private warning, declaration of taboos [and] amorous messages, reckoning of goods and money, and method of keeping of records and decorations.”
Kalu, O. 1980. “Writing in Pre-Colonial Africa: A Case Study of Nsibidi.” In African Cultural Development. O. Kalu, ed., 76-83.

Another nonsensical write up that ends up dodging the question.
If you claim to be a master's degree or a bachelor's degree holder, when challenged to produce your thesis or project work...would it make sense to start quoting the works of "other students" or "colleagues of yours" as evidence that you actually completed a final year thesis?
Why not produce a printed copy of your thesis to silence all doubters once and for all?
I am familiar with Ibibio, Efik, Igbo and Kalabari lands. I understand the culture and history. I am even a fluent speaker of several Nigerian languages. You on the other hand, appear to have acquired your knowledge off the internet. Your knowledge of the so called Nsibidi is off the mark.
That the Ekpe society used Nsibidi to codify messages is known to me.
That the veves of Haitian voodoo were imported and developed by Igbo and Kalabari slaves is also known to me.
But the point apparently eludes you.
You do not know anyone who writes in Nsibidi. If you had to read a text written in Nsibidi today to save your life, you'd be a dead man.
If you had the option of calling a life line to ask someone with a knowledge of Nsibidi to help you out...you'd also probably be a dead man.
Because Nsibidi never functioned as a general system of writing or record keeping for the Ejagham, Ekoi, Efik, Ibibio and Igbo peoples who used it.
There is no single record, book or scroll...with a name...available today that was written in Nsibidi before, during or after precolonial times.
Maybe you could be the first author to write in Nsibidi. Care to take on the challenge?

Zarahanair:

Trying to set up fake strawman arguments by claiming some other user account started them, and that you are "replying" to "refute" them fails miserably. They still remain strawmen. Deal with the data at hand, which debunks your claims and approach.

Sadly you refuted nothing and only spoke from a position of gross ignorance.
I was expecting a solid rebuttal of my so called "straw man" arguments.
You appear not to know what a straw man argument is.
All the questions I posed could simply have been answered in a straight forward manner...TO DEMONSTRATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE.
Rather you ended up quoting other peoples research and slinging as usual a mish mash of Google search results.
I speak from a position of direct knowledge.
I have given you several instances of African history, religion, esoteric practices and culture.
I do not need any European reference to tell you the devotees of Olokun of the Binis, Olokun of the Dahomeys and Yorubas, the Owu Mmiri of the Igbos...always wear white and have worship sessions where they regularly go in to trance to channel Olokun.

I do not need any European reference to tell you of the divination skills of the Ifa practitioners of the Yorubas.
I can tell you that all an Ifa diviner needs to draw up your horoscope or birth chart is your name and your mother's name.
On the other hand, diviners and astrologers from Europe or India will need your full name, gender, birth town, exact longitude and latitude
of your birth location to draw up your birth horoscope.
This is even before they attempt a prediction of your life path.
An Ifa practitioner can actually talk to your subconscious mind to get direct information about your destiny on earth, and give a very accurate
description of your temperament/personality without having met you before.

I can tell you of the correspondences between the different deities and planets, plants and phenomena.
I can give you without any reference to some Western styled university scholar details about the astronomy and astrology of today's Ethiopia.
You on the other hand have yet to tell me what the OTHER NUMEROUS ETHNIC GROUPS in SUB SAHARAN AFRICA call the zodiac or the planets!
Do the Ashantes, Zulus or Hausas speak Amharic? Is the culture of the Oromos the same as that of the Masai?

You would be hard pressed and left grasping for straws if I asked you to tell me why Ogun worshippers wear red or why the symbolism of all African secret societies always involve a woman as a central figure.
Are you an initiate of any African cult? Do you have first hand knowledge of why initiates of the Earth Goddess always use a leopard or lion totem?
You simply lack knowledge about Africa and you are the one who needs schooling.
I DO KNOW WHY ancient Egyptians had to be the black peoples of Africa.
And I DO KNOW what group of BLACK PEOPLES they were.
You sadly lack that knowledge and have to rely on hearsay, European historians and Google to learn what your forefathers in Africa never knew about.
The onus is on you to prove me wrong.

PabloAfricanus says:

I will rehash in plain language my points for your benefit.

You can "rehash" all the points you claim- they still remain dubious as already demonstrated in detail above.


First off, it was not the Europeans who are "claiming" ancient Egypt using "sources" foreign to them.
THEY conquered and ruled Egypt...severally under the Greeks, Romans, French and English.
And they have better records and histories about Egypt than anyone in sub saharan Africa.
You could start by disproving that point.

LMAO. Attempting to wriggle away from the exposure of your nonsense- it will not work. At issue above, among many other things, is your claim lamenting use of "European" sources by credible African/Afro-American students and writers. So again, if you are so concerned about "European" sources, why are you yourself writing in English and also using European sources?

And Afri/Afro_amer students are not using sources "foreign" to Egypt when they discuss the African foundation of Kemet. In fact, their STARTING POINT is the documentation left behind by the peoples of Kemet themselves. We know for example that the Dynasties sprung from the south, not because of "foreign" sources, but because the Egyptians themselves said so. On top of the written sources are archaeology data. These data whether they be inscriptions, pottery, tools, or buildings are themselves the product of the people of Kemet. They produced their own documentation. And they clearly show that African foundation- as expert mainstream scholars following the data acknowledge. You keep trying to downplay or deny this data, and keep on failing miserably.
Sorry, you are debunked again.

[image below]

To illustrate the fact that this topic is way over you, the Europeans have the AVAILABLE WRITTEN works of European historians
like Herodotus, Aristotle, Socrates, Julius Caesar to reference when they discuss Egypt or any other peoples they had historical dealings with.

Wrong again. Kemet is thousands of years older than Herodotus, Aristotle, etc. ANY STUDY OF KEMET BEGINS WITH THE WRITINGS AND DATA LEFT BEHIND BY THE EGYPTIANS THEMSELVES. Only a dummy would begin with Herodotus or Aristotle. LMAO, get a clue dude...


So they have never had any need to quote you, your grandfather or your village chiefs...who by the way they know NEVER left any WRITTEN records available ANYWHERE for referencing.

Laughable BS. As already shown the people of Kemet left behind their own written record. The people of Nubia and Cush also left behind their own written record, and the Cushite empire is partly a sub-Saharan entity. The people of Auxum in NE Africa which also is in Sub-Saharan Africa left behind plenty of writing. So why would these people need to quote Herodotus?


Your colonial masters produced comprehensive and publicly available "intelligence reports" on all the tribes/ethnic groups they pacified.
Their records, photographs and comments are largely what you and your ilk fall back on when they need academic references on precolonial history.

Sign, completely off base. Any credible student of Kemet begins with the documentation left behind by the peoples of the Nile Valley including Nubia. They don't begin with colonial administrators.


So, the joke is on you. The onus is on you to prove to me why you cannot tell your story without referencing "external" or "foreign" sources.

Hapless one, I have already proven you wrong multiple times above. We know from Egyptian records forr example that the dynasties started in the south and rose to dominate all of Egypt, and were not the product of "wandering Caucasoids." Not only is the joke on YOU, but you yoself are a joke that cannot grasp such elementary matters.


A mere challenge to tell me what any of the over 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria or any of the ethnic groups in sub Saharan africa call the Sphinx

How laughable, and irrelevant. Why would Nigerians have to call the Sphinx anything? Your diversionary tactic fails. Let's get back to your failures- you cannot even grasp elementary geography of Africa, and cannot even grasp the fact that peoples of the Nile Valley documented their own history- which is the starting point for any inquiry. Irrelevant trivia about what Nigerians call the SPhinx is just that- irrelevance. If Nigerians call the creature "sphinx" using the Greek language label- OK they called it "Sphinx". A challenge for you is the say what the Egyptians called the same creature in their own language.


You are the one who has been playing the validation game. Not me. I have reiterated that going the route you lots are following is just
playing "catch up" with the whites. A son of a rich man only needs to display his father's wealth. No need for long arguments or theses or validation.
The Swedes you mentioned do not go about claiming Rome or her imperial history.
Neither are they going about coming up with claims and counter claims about the Greek Pantheon.
The temples of Odin and Freya at Upsalla are there for anyone who wants to know about ancient Swedish history.

You are hopelessly confused. There is no "catch up" to be played. The hard data on the African foundation of Egypt is a fact, hard facts verified by credible mainstream scholarship- which itself begins with, and depends on, the hard data left behind by the peoples of the Nile Valley. Africans don't have to "catch up" on anything- the facts are what they are. And there may be temples to Odin and Freya in Sweden, but why is it that you do not demand they produce a temple to Zeus to validate that they are EUropean? Not only are you confused, you are hypocritical as well. You seem to demand that pyramids appear in Nigeria to "prove" Egyptians are Africans, but demand nothing equivalent for Europe where your beloved white people are concerned. Why the hypocritical double standard?


You lots are the ones trying so hard to prove ancestory/links between ancient Egypt, Nubia...and the numerous ethnic groups in sub Saharan African.

There is nothing to "try" proving. The facts already demonstrate that the ancient Egyptians share several links with sib-Saharan Africans- whether it be skeletal data, dental, cultural or genetic. Sorry- you yet again fail.


The fact that you consider Kush, Axum, Nubia...a people long gone from the pages of living history, whose only claim to having lived are the numerous artifacts they left...are an extension of the living sub Saharan peoples of Africa...show the level of your inferiority complex. Let me help you out.

Laughable rubbish. Let me help YOU out dummy. Axum IS in Sub-Saharan Africa. Lol.. And the Kushite empire extended down into what is today "sub-Saharan" Africa. Your ignorance constantly keeps being demonstrated. You certainly could use some "help."..

[image below]


A better way to "expose" my so-called "lack of elementary knowledge" would go along these lines:
"Come to Douala,Bini, Kano, Kumasi, Ouagadogou,Kinshasa and see the same pyramids available in Nubia. The same hieroglyphs you see in the tombs of Kerma and Nubia are faithfully replicated all across the peoples of the african continent. You would show and prove that the same way pyramids and megalithic structures found in Egypt were found to be the same as the ones found in Nubia...

LMAO another round of rubbish, and another exposure of your hypocrisy.. Why do pyramids have to appear in Kumasi to "prove" anything? Let's flip your hypocrisy back on you. How come huge classical temples to the Greek gods do not appear in northern Europe to prove, as you laughably say, "the unbroken lineage" of Europeaness or whiteness? Can you take on my challenge hypocrite?


Are you not proud of the Wolofs, Fulanis, Mandinkas, Bantus, Yorubas and Zulus?
Are the The Black Africans of the Nile Valley the only people with any history, culture or achievements worth celebrating?

LMAO-you are not fooling anyone with your childish diversionary tactics. Any credible student of African history acknowledges and celebrates that the Wolofs, Fulani, Zulu etc are PART of the overall African mosaic, just as Kemet is PART of that mosaic. Whoever said they "only" study the Nile Valley? You are not fooling anyone with your silly strawman.

And there YOU go again with your hypocrisy. If people want to study the Black Africans of the Nile Valley they are perfectly entitled to- they have credible scholarship at hand as already shown. And they ALSO study other areas of Africa as well, as groaning library shelves show, which they are also entitled to do. Who made you "arbiter" of what students of African history are "supposed" to study?
Why is your "approval" worth anything?


1) You still have not told me what the Wolofs or Yorubas call Venus or Jupiter. On demand you can actually google what the Indians, Chinese, Aztec, Mayas, Babylonians, Persians, Arabs, Romans, Greeks,Chinese...and Ethiopians...call any of the known planets in the solar system.

LOL your diversionary blatherings still fail. You are the one who keeps on denying or downplaying the African foundations of Egypt, and you are the one who demands that unless pyramids show up somewhere in West Africa, then they are not part of an African reality or mosaic. Yet hypocritically you do not apply the same reasoning to white Europe. Your diversioanry "challenges" fail. The burden of proof is on you to refute the detailed scholarship on the African foundation demonstrates. And while you are at it- you have not told me what the Egyptians called Venus or Jupiter etc in their own language.


2) You asserted that "black africans gave Europeans civilization" by your all the proofs and claims of your Afrocentric postulations, which I'd rather not rehash.

Actually I didn't. That is your diversionary strawman in an attempt to wriggle away and provide cover for the thorough debunking of your nonsensical claims, and exposure of your hypocrisy, as detailed herein.


3) Why are you just stuck on only the Ethiopians, Nubians and Egyptians? Are they the only groups of BLACK PEOPLES living in Africa?
Does your own ethnic group not count for anything?

Actually all the above are "my own ethnic group" Sorry... And who ever said they are the "only" groups of black people in Africa? This is yet another strawman to cover up your exposure.


If you claim to be a master's degree or a bachelor's degree holder, when challenged to produce your thesis or project work...would it make sense to start quoting the works of "other students" or "colleagues of yours" as evidence that you actually completed a final year thesis?
Why not produce a printed copy of your thesis to silence all doubters once and for all?

LOL you are a bit thick. We do not have to use "other student" anything. The peoples of the Nile Valley provided us plenty of documentation and data that we start with, and that we depend on to make inquiries and draw conclusions. The "printed copies" so to speak, are already in place, produced in situ by the Africans of the Nile Valley.



I am familiar with Ibibio, Efik, Igbo and Kalabari lands. I understand the culture and history. I am even a fluent speaker of several Nigerian languages. You on the other hand, appear to have acquired your knowledge off the internet.

LOL, I have already laid out detailed scholarship debunking almost every claim you attempt to make. Why should anyone rely on your assertion that you "are familiar" with this and that? Says who? You? One already debunked thoroughly? But let's play along with your supposed expertise.


Your knowledge of the so called Nsibidi is off the mark.

So you say, but can produce nothing that can refute the hard scholarship already shown. You keep saying such and such is "known to you." What YOU CLAIM to know is irrelevant. What COUNTS is credible scholarship and facts that you can bring to the table. So far all you have produced is your own dubious self-assertions bout how you are "familiar" with this, and how such and such is "known" to you". Seriously dude?


But the point apparently eludes you. You do not know anyone who writes in Nsibidi. If you had to read a text written in Nsibidi today to save your life, you'd be a dead man.

But the point already made eludes YOU. The question is not if Nsibidi is active today as it was in the past. The entire point is that the Nisbidi writing system existed in Africa before the coming of Arabs and Europeans. You downplayed or denied this earlier in this thread, and when debunked, you try a diversionary shift as to whether Nsibidi is active or not today. No one is being fooled by your diversions.


Because Nsibidi never functioned as a general system of writing or record keeping for the Ejagham, Ekoi, Efik, Ibibio and Igbo peoples who used it.
There is no single record, book or scroll...with a name...available today that was written in Nsibidi before, during or after precolonial times.

There you go again with your hypocritical double-standards. Samples of writing appear the world over without them having to be bound in a book or scroll to "validate" them. Books or scrolls do not always survive intact. Furthermore "books" or "scrolls" are often made by compiling of scraps of writings here and there from oral narratives into a whole. This scholars have done. Who says they have to create any "book" with a "name" to "prove" something? The earliest full written copy of the epic European oral poem "Beowulf" for example exists without a name or title. It is only years later that someone decided to slap a "name" on it and this is what it is known by today. OK for Europeans- you give them a pass. But when it comes to Africa you hypocritically demand that some "book with a name" must be produced to "validate" African peoples' efforts.

Scholars have compiled Nsibidi into a number of collections with "names" as shown below. Yet it is only in Africa that you demand "something with a name" to "prove" that African writing systems existed. Such hypocrisy speaks volumes. I have already given the scholarship, and examples of Nsibidi have been compiled by the scholars in question. They burden of proof is on you who (a) deny that any writing system existed before the Arabs or Europeans, and (b) now deny that Nsibidi writings exist. Credible scholars refute your claim. Your self-assertion bout how you "are familiar" with this and that or how you are "fluent in several Nigerian languages" are mere diversionary strawmen. They don't mean diddly. The onus is on you to prove credible scholars wrong. Just taking your word for it bout how such and such is "known to me" is not good enough. Why should anyone take your word for it when your lack of knowledge and hypocrisy has been already comprehensively demonstrated above?

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Maybe you could be the first author to write in Nsibidi. Care to take on the challenge?

Why should anyone take up irrelevant and diversionary "challenges" when you have failed repeatedly to back up your claims and have been comprehensively debunked? And there are complete writings in Nsibidi collected by scholars, including stories and court cases, as already referenced.




Rather you ended up quoting other peoples research and slinging as usual a mish mash of Google search results.

There is no Google "mish mash," only hard scholarship and data that expose your lack of knowledge and your hypocrisy.

Another dumb African of low intelligence
I forgive myself for indulging you in the first place.
This topic and the issues I raised are obviously way beyond you.
Not to worry, the beautiful thing about knowledge is it can exist side by side with ignorance, even appalling ignorance.

The fact is that Africa specifically Nigeria needs to break loose from its own stupidity.
Any so called King can declare anything they want; Our schools are mostly criminal breeding grounds especially universities; Our laws are most times laughable. No seriousness and passion from our leaders and most civilians are just trying to squeeze into the government pay chain.
I just posted some pictures of America's roadways, and it is the same beauty in state after state.
Every nation or continent is going to try to be ahead regardless, so it is expected that they might contribute to holding us(Africa) down but that don't compare to Africa holding herself down. We have a lot of work to do and we haven't even seriously started because of mass divisions.
We don't think far and wide. In Nigeria now, you have to be a beggar on the street to get a job and then get celebrated. Then tell me what happens to those who study the economic markets and try to find a way to fit in their resumes.