Good day all.

I paid a developer to build and host a website for my company. The website was hosted with the developers name, which was the initial agreement, after which, he will transfer the account to my name.

Right now he is the only person that has full access to the hosting and has refused to give me full access to the account. His reasons, he said, were because of the database and codes he used in building the website.
This, I don't have any interest in 'cos I'm not a developer. Even If I'm one, I have made the complete payment for the website.

The access I have to the account only enables me to pay the hosting fee from my end.

This is a summary of everything that happened before we got to this point.

I brought this to Nairaland because, I contacted the developer here and he is a Nairalander. I haven't seen him before though. He is a Nigerian but doesn't reside in Nigeria.

Pls advice.

and he probably doesn't have a name right??

post his username.

herald9:
post his username.

Nairalander01:
and he probably doesn't have a name right??

Knowing his username won't make any difference yet. I will post it when the time is right.

What I need is your unreserved opinion on the actions I can possibly take.

Thanks.

subset:




Knowing his username won't make any difference yet. I will post it when the time is right.

What I need is your unreserved opinion on the actions I can possibly take.

Thanks.

A dude is about to dupe you, yet you're hiding his identity. Maybe there is more to the story you don't want us to hear.


Come back when you are serious.

This depends on the agreement you guys had.

I know developers that will NEVER give out cpanel details to clients because they dont want people to copy their codes.

herald9:

A dude is about to dupe you, yet you're hiding his identity. Maybe there is more to the story you don't want us to hear.


Come back when you are serious.

You cannot decide that for him. You just said it yourself, "about to dupe" and not "have duped". It is only right for him to expose the guy ONLY when he confirms that he has been duped.

olyivy:

You cannot decide that for him. You just said it yourself, "about to dupe" and not "have duped". It is only right for him to expose the guy ONLY when he confirms that he has been duped.

For the fact that he doubted the dude's credibility made him open the thread in the first place. Should he wait to confirm his fears before he takes the necessary action?

Ok. Cool. What's your advice for him then?

I think the guy's speculating a job there: he wants to maintain the site and have you pay him. If under your agreement the source codes belong to you, then you are free to use legal action. Given that you've made full payment, it's all yours. And if he refuses to yield, he too is yours
But do you know any other thing about him? Oh, you've not met him before? Talk about freelance. Do you have any valid identification of him? His portfolio, facebook, phone numbers, real names? Do you have a copy of the agreement you signed?

olyivy:

You cannot decide that for him. You just said it yourself, "about to dupe" and not "have duped". It is only right for him to expose the guy ONLY when he confirms that he has been duped.

herald9:

A dude is about to dupe you, yet you're hiding his identity. Maybe there is more to the story you don't want us to hear.
Come back when you are serious.

The OP just came to get advise and pointers on this kind of situations, he never said he was being duped or anything.
The developer, probably, is protecting his IP in the sense that he owns the codes while the client owns the service. Therefore, he's securing his future income.

This is a delicate topic that would have been quite useful if it would be discussed here, maturely, rather than all these childish name calling and degradation...which brings me to ask;

Why are current upcoming 'web developers' on Nairaland enjoy bringing each other down

Craigston:
I think the guy's speculating a job there: he wants to maintain the site and have you pay him. If under your agreement the source codes belong to you, then you are free to use legal action. Given that you've made full payment, it's all yours. And if he refuses to yield, he too is yours
But do you know any other thing about him? Oh, you've not met him before? Talk about freelance. Do you have any valid identification of him? His portfolio, facebook, phone numbers, real names? Do you have a copy of the agreement you signed?

Probably, there was never an agreement/discussion on who owns the code.

On this topic, I always favor the right of ownership to the client. When developers own codes, it restricts the development and maintenance of the service to the developer which has a lot of negative factors.

1. What happens when the developer is not available due to extenuating circumstances like death, change of career or indefinite loss of contact.

2. What happens when the client is not satisfied with the developer's services or new terms of contract. The client is indefinitely tied to one developer who can do as he pleases including raising service fees abnormally and the decline of service quality.

3. What if the client just want to change a service provider, or hand over the project to a new developer for upgrades.

These are just few examples which can go on and on.

Morally, you can't tie a client down to purchase your service this way even when he wants to leave. An unhappy client is never good for business. There're so many other ways to keep a client coming back, holding him at ransom is definitely not one of them

Craigston:
I think the guy's speculating a job there: he wants to maintain the site and have you pay him. If under your agreement the source codes belong to you, then you are free to use legal action. Given that you've made full payment, it's all yours. And if he refuses to yield, he too is yours
But do you know any other thing about him? Oh, you've not met him before? Talk about freelance. Do you have any valid identification of him? His portfolio, facebook, phone numbers, real names? Do you have a copy of the agreement you signed?

Thanks for the insight.

I know him to a good extent; facebook,twitter,skype,phone numbers, real names,company name and most of his personal website and I have a copy of the agreement he sent to me as well.

He is my friend on the social networks I mentioned.

Below is a Lil story to what I stated earlier

After the project was concluded, he requested to be paid a monthly maintenance fee which was not in the agreement, after much deliberation we decided to be paying him a monthly stipend, though I was very much aware that he was not doing anything.

A month came when his payment didn't come as agreed, there was about 6days delay. Withing this 6days, he sent an email to my boss and I, threatening to shut down the website if he didn't get his payment in 24hrs and this is an E-commerce website which has not even gotten one successful order - which he is aware of, bt he is only interested in his pay.

To cut the story short, we only paid for that month and told him that we will discontinue the payment to avoid such threat to the infant business.

Meanwhile the website has been running very smoothly without the so-called maintenance for the past 3 months.

Since then, he started acting up and recently refused giving me full access to the hosting account.

The thing is, we started off as a friend and I gave him this job base on the relationship I had with him. I convinced my boss that he can handle the work. This is somebody I accommodated a lot of mess from during the course of the project. A project that was meant to be concluded within 2 months, ended up in almost 7months.

Feedback pls.

Thanks.

spikesC:


Probably, there was never an agreement/discussion on who owns the code.

On this topic, I always favor the right of ownership to the client. When developers own codes, it restricts the development and maintenance of the service to the developer which has a lot of negative factors.

1. What happens when the developer is not available due to extenuating circumstances like death, change of career or indefinite loss of contact.

2. What happens when the client is not satisfied with the developer's services or new terms of contract. The client is indefinitely tied to one developer who can do as he pleases including raising service fees abnormally and the decline of service quality.

3. What if the client just want to change a service provider, or hand over the project to a new developer for upgrades.

These are just few examples which can go on and on.

Morally, you can't tie a client down to purchase your service this way even when he wants to leave. An unhappy client is never good for business. There're so many other ways to keep a client coming back, holding him at ransom is definitely not one of them

I appreciate your understanding on this issue.

I read the agreement verbatim and there was no mention of such. If at all the developer has such in his agreement, he would have pointed it out when this matter came up.

That I gave him permission to host the website

herald9:


For the fact that he doubted the dude's credibility made him open the thread in the first place. Should he wait to confirm his fears before he takes the necessary action?

Ok. Cool. What's your advice for him then?

I can see you are a shoot first and ask questions later kind of guy. But be be careful cos you might damage what you need.

spikesC:


Probably, there was never an agreement/discussion on who owns the code.

On this topic, I always favor the right of ownership to the client. When developers own codes, it restricts the development and maintenance of the service to the developer which has a lot of negative factors.

1. What happens when the developer is not available due to extenuating circumstances like death, change of career or indefinite loss of contact.

2. What happens when the client is not satisfied with the developer's services or new terms of contract. The client is indefinitely tied to one developer who can do as he pleases including raising service fees abnormally and the decline of service quality.

3. What if the client just want to change a service provider, or hand over the project to a new developer for upgrades.

These are just few examples which can go on and on.

Morally, you can't tie a client down to purchase your service this way even when he wants to leave. An unhappy client is never good for business. There're so many other ways to keep a client coming back, holding him at ransom is definitely not one of them

I appreciate your understanding on this issue.

I read the agreement verbatim and there was no mention of such. If at all the developer has such in his agreement, he would have pointed it out when this matter came up.

That I gave him permission to host the website with his name was because I trusted him.

Just as you mentioned,

There were a lot of things I told him to include in the website which he has not done. Bt I'm not worried about, 'cos I already feel he is not as competent I as I imagined.

I didn't just see this issue coming.

What's the best way to handle this?

Pls advice.

subset:




Knowing his username won't make any difference yet. I will post it when the time is right.

What I need is your unreserved opinion on the actions I can possibly take.

Thanks.

Hey guys, please do not bother with this guy!....

I cant understand how somebody being duped could afford to hide the identity of the person duping him.

Simply, it shows he is not yet ready for deliverance

OP when you are ready you let us know the person's username....

Till then...

I will assume you only want to get comments, and make frontpage....

I will also assume there is no such thing as you said, that you only framed this story up...

Till then....God's guidance...

Dmayor7:


Hey guys, please do not bother with this guy!....

I cant understand how somebody being duped could afford to hide the identity of the person duping him.

Simply, it shows he is not yet ready for deliverance

OP when you are ready you let us know the person's username....

Till then...

I will assume you only want to get comments, and make frontpage....

I will also assume there is no such thing as you said, that you only framed this story up...

Till then....God's guidance...

Initially I don't want to reply any comment that will derail this thread and make me end up not getting the information I need. Bt...

I framed the story for what? To make Frontpage and then what?. Don't really understand how people reason most times.

I have my reasons for not including the developer's Username in this thread.

If you are someone that has information that will assist me, I believe you would have said so, username or No Username.

If you still insist on the username, I can send it to you privately.

Thanks for your understanding.

subset:


Thanks for the insight.

I know him to a good extent; facebook,twitter,skype,phone numbers, real names,company name and most of his personal website and I have a copy of the agreement he sent to me as well.

He is my friend on the social networks I mentioned.

Always keep your relationships away from your job. In matters like this, let your diction be professional and strictly so.

Below is a Lil story to what I stated earlier

After the project was concluded, he requested to be paid a monthly maintenance fee which was not in the agreement, after much deliberation we decided to be paying him a monthly stipend, though I was very much aware that he was not doing anything.

A month came when his payment didn't come as agreed, there was about 6days delay. Withing this 6days, he sent an email to my boss and I, threatening to shut down the website if he didn't get his payment in 24hrs and this is an E-commerce website which has not even gotten one successful order - which he is aware of, bt he is only interested in his pay.

That's it. He wants job security, a steady stream of passive income. Autopilot income. Does your company have a legal department? Your lawyer should have intervened at this point. Instead of paying him for those months, a lawyer would have received that money and kicked him out for good.

To cut the story short, we only paid for that month and told him that we will discontinue the payment to avoid such threat to the infant business.

Meanwhile the website has been running very smoothly without the so-called maintenance for the past 3 months.

Since then, he started acting up and recently refused giving me full access to the hosting account.

The thing is, we started off as a friend and I gave him this job base on the relationship I had with him. I convinced my boss that he can handle the work. This is somebody I accommodated a lot of mess from during the course of the project. A project that was meant to be concluded within 2 months, ended up in almost 7months.

Feedback pls.

Thanks.

I don't know much about legal matters, but I think you can file a lawsuit in this case. Try negotiating with him. Write him letters to make him see reasons you should have the source codes. Have some of these discussions with in the presence of your lawyer and have copies of your correspondence for evidence. If he remains adamant, offer to pay him a token for the codes, and have this offer recorded. Make it about 20 - 30% of what you paid him. If all attempts at negotiation fail, sue him. If you win the case, he should be paying for damages, real and punitive, done to your business. Yes, his actions are disrupting your business administration.
Btw, did your agreement state who has ownership of the codes?

Craigston:

Always keep your relationships away from your job. In matters like this, let your diction be professional and strictly so.

That's it. He wants job security, a steady stream of passive income. Autopilot income. Does your company have a legal department? Your lawyer should have intervened at this point. Instead of paying him for those months, a lawyer would have received that money and kicked him out for good.


I don't know much about legal matters, but I think you can file a lawsuit in this case. Try negotiating with him. Write him letters to make him see reasons you should have the source codes. Have some of these discussions with in the presence of your lawyer and have copies of your correspondence for evidence. If he remains adamant, offer to pay him a token for the codes, and have this offer recorded. Make it about 20 - 30% of what you paid him. If all attempts at negotiation fail, sue him. If you win the case, he should be paying for damages, real and punitive, done to your business. Yes, his actions are disrupting your business administration.
Btw, did your agreement state who has ownership of the codes?

Really appreciate the time you dedicate attending to this thread.

The agreement did not in any manner state that he owns the code. I read the agreement verbatim and if at all it was in the agreement he would have pointed it out. But he hasn't said anything of that nature.

I'm sure we've gone beyound negotiation, I have tried to talk to him in all way possible bt he is still insisting. Probably making an offer will be my next step, which depends on my boss.

Thanks.

subset:


Really appreciate the time you dedicate attending to this thread.

The agreement did not in any manner state that he owns the code. I read the agreement verbatim and if at all it was in the agreement he would have pointed it out. But he hasn't said anything of that nature.

I'm sure we've gone beyound negotiation, I have tried to talk to him in all way possible bt he is still insisting. Probably making an offer will be my next step, which depends on my boss.

Thanks.

If you did not at any point agree that the guy owns the codes and he is in talkings terms with you, make him understand how seriously you are taking this issue and the steps you intend to take which includes but not limited to online campaign against him.
Call his attention to this thread too, the guy might not understand the seriousness of the whole thing.

olyivy:

If you did not at any point agree that the guy owns the codes and he is in talkings terms with you, make him understand how seriously you are taking this issue and the steps you intend to take which includes but not limited to online campaign against him.
Call his attention to this thread too, the guy might not understand the seriousness of the whole thing.

Thanks for the advice.

I'm most likely to start an online campaign against him.

I appreciate the effort of everyone that has commented on this thread.
The Nairaland username of this developer is Lincolnpix. He is a Nigerian man that is base in Italy. Pls be informed.
This guy is only interested in your money and little or nothing to do with well being of your business.
You can make a Google search with the name lincolnpixel to see more about him on the web.

Thanks.

Cc: seun, adewasco2k, Slyr0x
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There are times I don't like taking sides on issues that I don't know how tit enveloped. That is why I always seek to hear from the second party. I think Lincolnpix owes it to this thread to come and state how own side of the story cos only that will enable us make an informed and unbiased assessment.

There is www.freelancer.com
You set your terms, you only get to release the funds to the developer after you get results and the same Nigerian "developers" (more like web extortioners, CMS installers and plugin/themes downloaders) playing god here are there too but they hardly get any jobs awarded to them because they really cannot deal with the world of a professional web developer.

Morning all,

Hi, Paschal, i hear you.

thanks to all contribuitors on this thread @adewasco2k, @Dmayor7, @Afam4evCraigston, @spikesC

Relationships with clients are always tricky, neither of you are mind readers, so what you come up with and what the client sees in their head may not always be the same thing. And then comes the feedback.

I’m a very trusting person with a huge heart, and over the years I’ve been stiffed out of tens of thousands of dollars.
Not to mention all the time and energy I lost beating myself up for being naive or trying to get people to just honour their agreements and pay for what they received.

No matter what you sell or what industry you’re in, you’re going to experience negative word of mouth (this post is my first experience) it just happens.
Would try to use this negative word of mouth as an opportunity.

Subset is talking complete and utter nonsense.

My answer to the OP is very simple..
I'm not giving him access to the Hosting cpanel because i dont want him to copy my codes, the site is not a ready made script, i designed and developed from scratch and this aspect was previously addressed in the contract.

Guys, to explain my own side of the story attached is a screenshot of the copyright section on the contract with with Paschal's company.


Full contract link: http://d.pr/f/15hf1

My one cent Nairalanders.... I ask that everyone reserve judgement until all the facts have come to light. No need ruining a someone's name by jumping to conclusions.

Paschal, try once in your life to be honest.

Cheers,
Lincoln Gbenga Olagbaju (armed with integrity and passion)

I really don't I understand how a developer will build a site for someone and still reserve the right to own the codes. What exactly does that mean? I think the client made abgrave mistake by not going through the contract papers carefully before signing because as it is, based on what Lincolnpix has said and if true, will win this one in a court of law.

Having said that, we developers should try as much as possible to employ some level of kindness when dealing with people. I know its a business but we shouldn't go to any length to rip off clients who may not understand what they are signing up for.

Afam4eva:
I really don't I understand how a developer will build a site for someone and still reserve the right to own the codes. What exactly does that mean? I think the client made abgrave mistake by not going through the contract papers carefully before signing because as it is, based on what Lincolnpix has said and if true, will win this one in a court of law.

Having said that, we developers should try as much as possible to employ some level of kindness when dealing with people. I know its a business but we shouldn't go to any length to rip off clients who may not understand what they are signing up for.

@Afam4eva thanks for your time.
Well regarding reserving the right to own the codes, there's nothing wrong with that.
The most important thing i did was adding a clause on the contract that protects my copyright. It also address the copyrights the client will retain.

Most "web designers and developers" are familiar with copyright law. We make sure our web designs are not infringing on other’s work. We purchase the proper licenses for fonts and photos. And we run the copy through plagiarism checkers. But what about the code we write?

Choose to ignore copyright and you leave yourself and your agency vulnerable to legal battles over code ownership.

Cheers.

Afam4eva:
I really don't I understand how a developer will build a site for someone and still reserve the right to own the codes. What exactly does that mean? I think the client made abgrave mistake by not going through the contract papers carefully before signing because as it is, based on what Lincolnpix has said and if true, will win this one in a court of law.

Having said that, we developers should try as much as possible to employ some level of kindness when dealing with people. I know its a business but we shouldn't go to any length to rip off clients who may not understand what they are signing up for.

One can only play "god" with ignorant people. There are just a few ignorant people out there now so the "web developers" are trying hard to squeeze as much as they can get from them before their ignorance wears off.


Subset, my advice to you. Don't try to push this case any further, you don't have winning case. Agreeing to the terms of this individual was the first mistake you made. Take it as a lesson and move on. Get a professional web developer to handle your project and be sure to agree with your developer that you're getting all source codes as deliverables at the end of the project. Secondly, NEVER give the hosting of your website to the developer to handle. The web developer is not a web host. His job should stop at developing your application and placing it on your hosting account. You do not need any NASA training to manage the hosting of your websites, you just need Google. It is only a developer who wants to make you a steady and constant source of revenue that will insist on hosting your project and you should run away from such individuals. Your web developer has nothing whatsoever to do with your domain name or its hosting, all he has to do is give you the basic requirements your hosting environment needs to have to be able to run his application.

Any web developer who is so shallow-minded to stifle clients with these kind of terms is just in this thing for the business(extortion) and not for the passion and it is only a matter of time before the web developer is out of business.

lincolnpix:
Morning all,
Lincoln Gbenga Olagbaju (armed with integrity and passion)

What integrity is there to your name? You deliver a job in 7 months when the ETA was 2 months ...and you still haven't delivered all the requested features. Let me take a wild guess, you're waiting for a real web developer to develop the plugin(s) and put online as opensource with that shiny "download" button.

What passion do you have? You choke your clients with ridiculous terms that show you're just out to milk them. You've done nothing strange. Nigerians have been preying on the ignorance of their fellow brothers and sisters since 1960.

Keep the words in bold away from your future manifestos until you know what they mean.

//un-follow'd

I don't see any reason why he should deny you access to your account. It's possible you have a disputed outstanding payment. That is why I usually advise people to own and manage their own domain registration and hosting.

K