The world is tired of double standards.

otokx:

The world is tired of double standards.

period

Nutter:


The US is a giant in many ways but this giant feeds off the blood and sweat of other nations. If these were withdrawn, there will be no US as we know it.

tell them.

if i may make an analogical explanation of the pain the US wil feel,
in the early 1980s, the global economic powers adviced the developing countries to embark upon austerity measures. this advice was followed by developing economies including nigeria during the shagari era, imports were cut down and what happened, items like textile, for instance, which were imported from europe was cut down. what followed was that the textile factories in liverpool and other cities of the industrial midwestern england ran out of business and the job loss that followed was unbelieveable. the thatcher govt lost a lot of credibility as the economy lowered. that was when the west realised that the world was linked in more ways than they knew. then they realised that trade is an important tool in world economy and the tenaciously held on to the World trade organisation(WTO).

brothers, that (WTO) is where our poverty is enshrined. that is where markets and[i]ipso facto[/i] economies are controlled. the rich maintain their wealth at the expense of the poor. the only way poverty can be eliminated from poor countries is when unfair trade deals are abolished. not foreign aid.

we need trade, not aid.
they know this. G8 will never give up this control. they think we dont know. but as bob marley says, u can fool some people sometimes but you cant fool all the people all the time.

our time will come.

@Afam,

Toshman,
I agree with you that some people have conveniently shifted the focus to Chavez instead of the issues he raised.
TayoD,
It is funny how you ask for proof whenever the US is accused of anything even if obvious and at the same time you will make sometimes completely baseless statements and pass them off as facts.
The day you replied that the republicans that opposed Bush in the Article 3 of the Geneva Convention did so because they wanted to covert the bystanders because it was election time was the day I stopped taking your posts serious.
You are an unrepented and blind supporter of the US regardless of the issues on ground.
Talk about Iraq today and you will bring a whole lot of useless justifications, you may do well by contributing to jokes and rumours setcions and allow people to discuss real issues without the unnecessary distractions.
A thread came up to discuss issues raised and you turned it to US bashing, this is disgusting!!!

Why shouldn't we take a closer look at Chavez? Even in a court of law, the background and credibility of a witness is taken into consideration. A witness' testiony, though true, will never be taken seriously if he has no credibility. I would wish a more righteous man than Bush were making this accusation, then I'll begin to take him seriously. As far as I am concerned, Chavez is just an eccentric looking for a cheap way to win popularity. And since the most part of the world is anti-Bush, we will expect him and others like him to take that route.

Can you please tell us why it is so obvious that Bush is out to kill Chavez? Or do you expect me to just believe that eccentric just because he said so? I'm not surprised anyway, a coup plotter will always be on the edge thinking others are out to topple him. And his constant accusation of Bush will distract others from his own incompetence.

Are you accusing me of being a blind supporter of the US or of Mr Bush? I can't fathom how I am a a blind supporter of the US when I am in support of the Presidency against a faction of the Legislature. YFor your information, the Presidency and the Legislature are both different arms of the same government of the United States of America. You obviously don't know what you are talking about at all. Perhaps you are the one that should contribute more to the rumours and jokes section since you expect us to take accept as fact anything that you say, and you deem 'obvious'. I hope I am right to consider your sly remark an attempt at a complement, since you have claimed before that yo are not one to attck personalities first.

I have not justified anything about the Iraq war. You can bring your proof of this accusation. Oh I forget, it is 'obvious' that I justify that war, and by your standard, any 'obvious' scenario amounts to a fact. I have only tried to let you see that you have no basis to call Mr Bush a liar. His decision was based on available facts provided by the CIA. These facts are now discredited, but there is absolutely no proof nor an accusation by the Democrats that Bush influnced that report. Everyone who voted for the war did so based on the same information that Bush had, but of course, the final responsibilty and the blame must fall on Bush.

And for your information, Bush got what he rightly wanted in the compromised bill that will likely be brought to the Senate floor sometime this week. All he asked for was some well-defined coerced interrogation of terrorism suspects by the CIA. The coerced interrogation was not even supposed to be the rule, it must be authorised by the President when it is required and when lives are imminently at stake. I expect you to have applauded the US for even considering trying these criminals under the Geneva Convention. Unknown to you, the Geneva convention was agreed upon for uniformed combatants fighting for a nation, not some Islamo-fascists who kill in the name of a religion.

And when you are talking about issues, perhaps you should discuss why other nations in unison, are not doing half as much to help the developing world as the U.S. is doing. The U.S. is not perfect, but others should at least do smething comparable to her to be worthy of criticizing her.

The U.S govt is bad. The freedom of speech he is enjoying in the U.S is a scarce commodity in Venezuela, Iran ,and those countries
U.S sponsored a coup in Venezuela? CAn we have proof? or Chris Ngige would just come forward and say the U.S sponsored his impeachment in Anambra as the U.S is guilty of everything

The foreign aid (my ass ) according to someone Is what millions are surviving on in Darfur, and Famine stricken parts of East Africa probably George Bush is responsible/sponsoring for the famine
The Hamas govt is screaming for aids: this is because U.S has plundered Palestinian oil reserves.

All those complaining why have most of the third world always waiting for foreign aid or foreign investors to bail them out . How much of the world aid is contributed by Iran and Venezuela to victims of earthquake and Tsunami in South-East Asia or was George Bush and American policies responsible for those?

George Bush and rebuplican were responsible for terror against U.S dont forget that Bush was barely in office when Sept 11 occured, or Kenyan and Tanzanian bombing, or WTC bombing of 1993

@TayoD,

are all you deserve. Education truly does not equal knowledge.

On attacking personalities, yes this time around I couldn't help it so I had to go personal because your style can make one throw up. Seems you can effortlessly sell your birthright for some basic amenities.

Do the forum a favour, stop diverting attantions to other things when issues are brought up.

@Afam,

You have just confirmed what I have thought of you all along. You are a man who does not make a stand on principles!!! You claim you do not attack personalities, but you have done so twice now without any form of self restraint. You claim you stand for justice, but it is obvious you do so only for some and not for all. You project a sanctimonious fascade of one who believes the best of every man, but not when the man is a U.S citizen or Mr Bush himself. What a pity.

I suppose your blind hatred does not reveal to you that this forum was turned into a personality bashing before I came on board. Perhaps you need to go back and read all the responses to the first post and see how many times Bush was bashed just to make a non-sustainable point. I have not seen anyone articulate a policy that will help these developing countries, but I have seen too many personality attack on Mr Bush. I guess going the route of personality bashing is considered a legitimate course of action for people like you who think that Chavez is a hero.

You will do well to treat the issues raised and address a legitimate and scholarship UN report I pasted earlier that deals with the effort of the US at sustaining the world economy. But since someone in your camp already dismissed it without even reading it, I suppose there is no need for someone with contrary views to be a part of this forum. That is why I was quick to say that this forum was turned into an opportunity for U.S. bashing and I have been proved right time and time again.

Can you tell me what birth-right you have and are enjoying now that I am deprived off? You are such a low-lifer Afam. I know people like you quite well. You blame the U.S. for all things, yet you'd be the first in line at the US embassy at 4:00am in the morning. Infact, people like you will sleep over by the embassy gate just to be the first in line to be denied a VISA into 'God's Own Country.' You are trailing behind others, and instead of asking questions and doing legitimate things to be a leader, you will rather see to the downfall of those who lead. What a saddist!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's amazing to what extent people will go to criticize the U.S. A recent AIDS conference also provided an opportunity for many to criticize the U.S. for stating that a percentage of the money donated by the U.S. must go into teaching abstainence as a form of eradicating the AIDS pandemic. Instead of praising the U.S. for providing more money than all other countries, they were doing nothing but saying the U.S. should change their policy. What a bunch of ingrates. If you'd rather have more money going into other forms of combating AIDS, why not ask the other 'saintly' countries to increase their aid? But of course, U.S. hatred has blinded otherwise intelligent people from reason.

All that you and others have said here have been based on conjecture and we will require hard facts to begin to deal with your petty grievances. and one more thing Afam, please grow up!!!

@TayoD,

On the contrary, I am the type that will always accept responsibilities of my actions whether right or wrong. That was why I admitted I went personal, I cannot be like you that will attempt to defend the indefensible.

You make me sick with your US trying to maintain or sustain world economy, what do you know about world economy?

As regards wanting to go to the US or embassy, you must realise that there are people that do not value what you think is the ultimate - a visit to the US and the next thing is 'our country", "our president" etc.

I stated that education does not equal knowledge because I believe that you are an educated Nigerian but the level of discussions especially the way you draw inferences from certain premises really shows you are far from basic understanding of issues even in your own backyard.

The US is being tasked on its wrong policies. That the US does a few good things does not warrant it to do a lot bad to other nations. That you find it difficult to understand that people can praise the US for the good and condemn it for the bad is not surprising because to you, any complain about the US policy is wrong and it is a shame.

I have quite a number of business interests in the US and a lot of friends and relations, so I cannot possibly hate the US even when I have interests there.

What I hate is the hypocrisy which funny enough you hardly know anything about. The double standards is another problem leading to increased level of insecurity, again you don't understand this.

As to my not reading the links you posted, I guess the response by Nutter should have opened your eyes and mind to issues based on facts and not make believe.

Honestly, you write like a totally brainwashed person, believing anything you hear as long as it's from the US.

I would be happier reading your posts with a non Nigerian name because some people may wronglly assume that the average Nigerian thinks the way you do.

Chavez may have made some good points. No doubt about that.

However, whatever point he had to make had been masked by that childish openign remark. I think it is degrading on his part to refer to someone (a president at that) as a devil. Whatever happened to terms like terrorist, dictator, rebel, criminal etc etc.

Some years down the line, he will feel like a fool to have that speech credited to him (a president in his own right).

@Afam,

I wish you'd discuss the U.S. policies that is causing the world-wide problems you are quick to blame the U.S. for.  You talk of double standards, and yet are not quick to judge other nations by the same standards you choose to judge the U.S.  Hypocite!  Can you show me where you've praised the U.S. at some point on this thread or any other?  You are just full of rubbish, aint you?

You should be more ashamed of yourself at the way you arrive at conclusions based on what you deem 'obvious.'  Is that how you were taught in school?  Where are the facts that connect Bush to an assassination attempt at Chavez?  You just believe anything that is anti-Bush and anti-U.S. and you want us to take you seriously even when you cannot prove anything.

The post you refered to has no facts but is another person's opinion.  But again, since it is in line with your biased pre-disposition, you accept it as a Gospel truth.

I have never painted Bush as a saint, but I know that Chavez is not on a moral higher ground to now be attacking the man's personality.  Bush, like everyone else is human and he will make mistakes.  The U.S., like every other country is not perfect (especially when they allow people like you to have business interests in it  ).  Common sense teaches that the best way to change a person is to dwell on their good points while changing our own habits and behavior for the better.  I believe same can be said of a nation.  

The U.S has done more to help humanity than any other nation in the world today.  They have shown they value the life and interest of their citizens only second to the nation of Isreal.  Agreed they may be imperial, but tell me what other nation that isn't.  The only reason why these folks are shouting imperialism is because the U.S. is more successful than them at the game and not because they care a hoot about the other nations.  The way the so-called champions against the US imperialism are treating their own citizens tells us this much.   I hope you do not think that Iran, Russia, Syria, Venezuela and the likes are free of imperialism!!!  If they are not, then what gives them the right to attack the morality of the U.S.?

@Rhea,

I agree with you that the devil part was not necessary even though Bush had earlier (even till today) label countries as being part of an axis of evil.

How can one justify such statements even when some acts that people object to most times are carried out by a few people?

Bush has brought more problems than solutions since he came in and that he is the president of the US is bad news, afterall the strangle hold of the US especially in world affairs today is waning, thanks to his many blunders.

If not for his careless and outright lies leading to the illegal invasion of Iraq, the Iranian issue would have been easier to tackle.

Still on double standards, even though I do not like the Iranian president's remarks about wiping Israel off the map, I somehow support his quest to get nuclear weapons (not just nuclear technology) because one cannot understand a world where countries like Israel, India and Pakistan all refused to sign the NPT and are allowed to produce nuclear weapons everyday without any wahala and countries like the US that is a signatory to the NPT that is continously developing these nuclear weapons and threatening war on countries that don't take instructions from them while other countries are told not to develop them.

It is either the world moves towards eradicating all nuclear arsenals or they allow those that want to develop them do so since becoming nuclear weapons capable is all it takes to get respect in a crazy world where might seems to be right as if we are all in a jungle.

@TayoD,

If you are not aware of any foreign policies of the US that is fuelling the growing hatred towards it then I see no point in discussing issues with you.

Common sense teaches that the best way to change a person is to dwell on their good points while changing our own habits and behavior for the better. I believe same can be said of a nation.

The quote above by you clearly shows why you find it difficult to see any bad thing the US does. Need I say more?

@Afam,

Can you please tell us if it is only the US that is guilty of imperialsm. If that is not the case, why is it just the US that keeps geting all these bashings? What about Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Britain, France and the likes. If you are really interested in world peace, then you have to deal with the problem in totality and not vent your frustrations on the U.S. alone.

@TayoD,

Why don't you start a thread that will dwell on imperialism and not divert the focus of any thread that contains any negative comment on the US and claiming bashing in the process?

@Topic,

Still on some of the issues Chavez raised concerning Bush trying to spread democracy with bombs and wars, here is a response from a friend on another forum on the latest intelligence report that tended to suggest that the Iraq war has increased the risk of terror.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The report only managed to confirm the obvious! The Iraq war was executed based on falsified information, which makes it an immoral war and the muslim world is very aware of that fact and infuriated about it. Secondly, the war stands out as one of the most mismanaged wars of this century with over 40,000 civilians dead and the nation at the brink of a full blown civil war. The Bush administration was too hasty to invade a sovereign nation that they forgot to count the cost of maintaining the peace or figure out an exit strategy. The Abu Ghraib prison and Guantanamo bay prison abuses of suspected terrorists by America personnel has not helped matters either.

That more strikes await western nations is only a matter of time, except God intervenes to avert more tragedies. The Bush administration's method of aggression, preemptive attacks, no negotiations with perceived enemies are all anathema to peaceful conflict resolution. One can only pray that his unimpressive regime comes to an end quickly and that a more humane president that will confront the challenges that face the world today with wisdom and a deep sense of equity will be elected.

Bottom line, Bush is viewed as a major threat to world peace in practically every part of the world today. Already, the white house is disputing the findings of the report as usual. These extreme right wingers are simply incapable of rational reasoning when they are bent on a arbitrary line of action. The muslim terrorists believe the US and its allies are only after controlling Mideast oil and dominating the world with their parochial version of democracy. Such perception can only lead to dire consequences effected by frustrated individuals who will use any means available to register their disapproval, unfortunately.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But this post is already about Imperialism until you guys turned it into another oppoetunity to bash the U.S. Give us ideas on ways to move other third world countries forward and not try to give the impression that the US is the cause of every evil in the world today.

Go back to the beginning of the thread, read it again up to the point you posted your comments and come back here to repeat the statement you have just made about people turning the thread into US bashing.

US cannot be the cause of every evil in the world today and no one has stated that US is the cause of every evil, such simplistic and open ended (even wrong) statements is uncalled for unless you are both the judge and the jury.

On third world countries moving forward, I think Chavez is doing the right thing in questioning the US style of spreading democracy. Raising the consciousness of the average person on what is really happening will help.

Unfortunately, any country that does not agree with the US becomes an enemy and before you know it plans are underway to fight the person or the nation.

Okay here is what you said just before I opted in:

Bush has no business in governance and he is responsible for the increase in hatred against the West especially the US based on his hypocrisies and double standards.
We need more courageous leaders like Chavez and the president of Iran even though I disagree with him on the destruction of Israel.
Funny enough, a free and fair democracy brought the Hamas government into power and yet the West does not like that type of democracy, a democracy that does not take instructions from the white house or 10 downing street.

this is in addition to other statements against the US before yours. I am not against people pointing out america's fault, but try and do so from an unbiased perspective, and with a due sense of responsibility.

The anger against the West has always being there and will never be eradicated. Bush has only stirred the hornet's nest even more and let us see these people for who they truly are - cold-blooded murderer. I wonder what Bush did that brought about September 11. I wonder what he did that brought about the Danish Cartoons protest. I wonder what he also did that has now resulted in these murderous bunch going after the Pope's life, and promising to 'continue' the fight against christianity and the west.

Bush's stance is very clear. Peaceful negotiations makes this guys feel we are weak. Perhaps a armed conflict will show them our resolve. Whether he is right or wrong is yet to be seen, but one thing clear is this: there has not been a single terrorists attack on the homeland for the past few years, not because these murderous bunch are lack the will to carry it out, but because a tight noose has been placed on their neck by the actions of President Bush.

And one other thing that irks me from your posts is the fact that you have chosen to call and label Bush a liar, despite the fact that you or anyone else for that matter has no proof of this. That sole action cuts across to me as character assasination, and I really feel pissed off by those who attack other's integrity while showing none at all.

@TayoD,

TayoD:

I am not against people pointing out america's fault, but try and do so from an unbiased perspective, and with a due sense of responsibility.

I raised some issues with one of your submissions but you conveniently ignored them. As some of us are - to you - out to have a go at America, please tell me what you consider to be America's faults. Please try to restrict your answer to international relations and trade.

*This thread is about Chavez and his recent utterances against Bush. These utterances are as a result of American Foreign Policy as championed by Bush. Therefore, it will be both unreasonable and unrealistic to expect a full discussion without reference to these policies. That we raise questions or point out discrepancies does not immediately translate to US bashing. You have to understand that. You also need to keep something of an open mind and stop being so defensive about these matters.

.

@Nutter,

I do have an open mind to these issues. I live in the U.S., and I am not at all unaware of the ills in that society and of it's leaders. Believe me, I just had a very unpleasant experience today.

One of the things I have tried to point out is the fact that Chavez is a very wrong person to champion the cause for reform. He needs to lead by example, and he has shown that he is only after some cheap publicity. Roundly condemning Bush's person is also wrong. making him out to be a liar is un-called for. The fact that a lot of people now believes that he is after Chavez's life without any proof also tells me that the guy is not getting a fair hearing. I believe in justice, but I believe it must be for all, and not for some.

I guess one of the problems Chavez and his folks have is the Veto Power by the U.S. in the UN. But is it just the US that holds such a priviledge? The use of the veto power was done legally and within the confines of the UN charter. On the other hand, one who wanted to come to power through an illegal means of coup plotting is now trying to make himself our hero. What a joke.

If you want to make changes, then you have got to change the laws. As hated as Bush is, no one will be able to impeach him because he operates within the law. At least, he has enough sense to do that. The clarifications he requested recently about the Geneva Convention was so he does not break the law.

While the Iraq war may be his greatest undoing, no record shows he took that action based on a deliberate lie to his nation, neither did he forge or see to the embelishment of evidence. He went to a costly war war on a wrong premise. At least one thing you can never accuse Bush of is that he is complacent. He is a man who stands up to what he believes is right, and we can only pray he believes the right things based on accurate information.

@TayoD,

Chavez saying Bush is a devil that smells like a devil is funny (very funny indeed) but wrong – I agree (only because Christian teaching tells me so). However, calling Bush a liar is right on the money. It matters little that Bush claims to have been fed inaccurate information by the CIA. The fact remains that he made this available to the world as the truth. He has to take responsibility for that. Moreover, I am not entirely convinced that he was not looking for an excuse to invade Iraq. The prize was too great. Iraq was the most policed/monitored country leading up to the war. The US knew Saddam’s every move. The thing is, Bush stood the chance of not only avenging the assassination attempt on his dad, but also taking control of Iraq’s oil. That explains why there was a concentration of forces around oil installations in the early part of the war, while the rest of the country suffered sustained episodes of looting. Also, the dodgy contract awards to oil companies should be a major source of concern to all.

While the veto power enjoyed by the US is lawful (but not just, I hasten to add), with such power should come an even greater willingness to do right. The countless number of times the US has vetoed bills against Israel (for no other reason but that Israel is concerned) should be worrying for any political watcher. This is the real reason for the attacks against the US.

When you speak of Bush seeking clarifications on the Geneva Conventions, I assume you speak in relation to Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib (my spelling is off, I’m sure). Bush seeking those clarifications after the fact is wrong. It’s simply too little, too late. However way we look at it, the US is wrong on that count. Bush broke international law. Do not attempt to justify that.

You still haven’t told me the faults you think the US has. Surely you should be able to think up a few.

@nutter,

Any nation with more than one person living in it will have some faults.

I do agree with some of your conclusions but not all. I'll deal with them as we go.

@afam and tayod,

are u guys discussing the topic i posted or are you guys fighting urselves? abeg o.
i've almost forgotten the topic. ehm, yeah, hugo chavez and his points.

someone talked about the dafur crisis and foreign aid? i'm not saying the foreign aid is useless, all i say is that we need fair trade deals, not foreign aid. foreign aid is a major tool of dependency.makes u a perpetual beggar and easy to control. but fair trade deals liberate you from poverty and lets you face ur own problems including farmine. then you wont need foreign aid.

that is the key issue in poverty alleviation for the world's poor countries. the rich nations know this but wont let it happen. you know why? i tell you. their wealth thrives on our poverty. if the global trade deals are addressed, it reduces thier wealth and reduces our poverty, dependence and tractability. they wont let that happen.
that's why i hate them.

toshmann:

i tell you. their wealth thrives on our poverty. if the global trade deals are addressed, it reduces their wealth and reduces our poverty, dependence and tractability. they wont let that happen.
that's why i hate them.

You hate the developed world? Yet you live in one of those countries. Interesting. I agree though, improved trade deals are far better than aid.

@TayoD,

We are waiting. What are those faults of US?

@Nutter,

Thanks a lot for the information, we need to tell it as it is.

@Toshman,

No one needs aid, all we need is fair trade. The 3rd world countries are being ripped off by the wealthy ones and many still don't see it.

If you have the time, you may see the following threads

The "Reality" of aid - http://thenigeriaforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=125.0

Unnatural Disasters - http://thenigeriaforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=115.0

Mariory:

You hate the developed world? Yet you live in one of those countries. Interesting. I agree though, improved trade deals are far better than aid.

i dont hate the developed world, i hate injustice. i live in the developed world and i feel the injustice being done and it hurts more. i'm here for education and global exposure. they are ripping me off (tuition) so it's part of the injustice. and if i get the degree from home, they wont value my degree b/c it's from a naijan university. so i have to get it from their school and they rip me b4 i can get the degree. talk of fairness, how can a student from a poor country pay 3-5 times the fees that students from rich countries pay? and they must pay fully. those from rich countries get loans.

ok, b4 u ask why my country is poor etc i'll bring you back to the trade deals that sealed our poverty. who made the trade deals? ahaaaa. i hope you are begining to see things from my angle. u see, where there is poverty, there is discontent. with extreme poverty, life is next to worthless. signs of poverty in a society-corruption, crime, violence, prostitution etc how does your developed countries help poor countries out of this- they sell weapons to both sides of a war, the war creates refugees, they bring aid(which is actually tied to business and gain). for corruption they openly accept monies from corrupt african leaders into their banks. povety has reduced most african young girls to prostitutes and if you come to europe and see what girls do for "papers" u'll understand what i mean when i say the west has encouraged prostitution. how our girls are "uselessed" by these white people. i feel ashamed. yet these are our brightest girls. where does all this lead-wrecked tangible relationships, unwanted babies( why do you think there are many mixed race people in europe, mostly without their dad. where are the fathers?) divorce here and there.single mothers everywhere- a monumentally vicious cycle with unimaginable consequences on our social values.

due to poverty we have been reduced as a race to 2nd class. our culture is regarded as inferior and our color a disadvantage. do you think all this would have been possible if our country was not poor? poverty is terrible. do you want me to tell you about poverty? that needs a new thread.or forum. and this poverty is enshrined in WTO. trade is the answer. not aid. how many rich countries do u see fighting civil wars? huh?
like malcom X said, i reiterate, history has authorised me to call the white man evil.

@TayoD,

I’d appreciate an engagement on this issue of fault as soon as you can manage it.

@Afam.

Thanks, my brother. Like you, I await answers.

@Nutter,

I am not the one feeling disfranchised by the U.S. and I'm not obligated to tell you what I feel is wrong with the U.S.  I have stated simply that the U.S. has no fault that is not apparent with any other nation, and Bush has no fault that is not exhibited by those who are championing a crucifixion of the man.

And if you read what I have written earlier, I think the biggest issues all have with the U.S. is their imperialism and that is a vice that is embedded in every nation.

And by the way, I am not in agreement with your conclusion that the U.S. broke international law with regards to Abu Graib and whatever. If we are to get in a court of law, the Geneva Convention which is binding all the nations is very explicit that the laws is binding on uniformed soldiers fighting under the banner of a country. These terrorists do not qualify as such. Now, it is another thing to talk about the wisdom of maintaining those prisons, and the fact that there are innocent people detained there as well. But in a technical sense, terrorists are not uniformed soldiers fighting under the countol of any government, and as such cannot be subject to the Geneva Convention.

give bush respect saddam tried to kill his father. every last one of you if you were president of the us would have invaded iraq so that you could bring saddam, the guy who truied to kill your father to justice. stop being hypocrites nairalanders. even in naira, if you try to kill the president, you will be killed in due course no matter where you hide.

@TayoD,

As you have refused to hold up your own end of this debate, I don’t see any reason to continue. If your above evasive entry was a one-off, it could be excused. However, you previously touted the incongruous idea that the US could survive in its present form if cut-off from the rest of the world. I called you up on that but you remained silent. Now, even though you accept that the US has made mistakes, you refuse to list them. My feeling on this is that were you to provide an itemization of said faults, it would promptly become apparent that they align very closely with the issues many have taken the position of disgust against. A position, I remind you, which you immediately labelled ‘US Bashing’. Anyway, it’s unfortunate that you have been unwilling and/or unable to put up a defence for the US. This has only served to reinforce my beliefs. Nice chatting with you though.

@Nutter,

That is exactly the point. If I am putting up a defense for the US, I am not the one that should be levelung accusations at them.

The report that the US is the one holding up the economies of most developing countries is not mine, but produced by a UN representative. The links is still there for you to go through. You may do well to disprove this article by your scholarship refutal of the facts provided therein.

@TayoD,

TayoD:

@Nutter,

That is exactly the point. If I am putting up a defense for the US, I am not the one that should be levelung accusations at them.

Therefore, you forfeit the right to claim objectivity. You are thus no better than the terrorists who see only bad things about the US. You are no better than those you have accused on this thread of bashing the US.

TayoD:

The report that the US is the one holding up the economies of most developing countries is not mine, but produced by a UN representative. The links is still there for you to go through. You may do well to disprove this article by your scholarship refutal of the facts provided therein.

It's either you didn't read my reply to the article or you have chosen to do away with the points I raised. I did not discredit that article. I only made a point of making you aware that the US does not do all that for free. She gets paid!

The quote I took issue with was this:

"am so sick and tired of the rest of the world. You insult us everyday. I would gladly remove all of our soilders, businesses, charities, and any other organizations that you spit on dailey. You go your way with your Chaves', Bin Landens, Kim Jongs, and whoever else you seem to want to exhalt as wise and loving people. I wish we would build a wall all the way around our country and try to forget the rest of you are out there. I'm sure you wont post this but I promise millions of Americans agree"

Zane, USA

I hope you realise that the above is complete poppycock.

Nutter,

While I do not agree with the U.S. withdrawing inside her borders, I am of the opinion that there is absolute validity to the statement made by that individual. Can you analyse what the effects of the US withdrawing its army from all over the world would be? Think of the Koreans and the entire Asian continent before you make your conclusions. Economically, every one will suffer and since there is no political will to fight and stand up to Islamo-fascists by the rest of the world, you can be certain of a Jihad that will engulf and overtake the rest of the free world. Consider the enormous charities by the U.S citizens (not Government) around the world, and tell me if there wont be massive catrastrophe's in the event of such disasters as the Tsunami. Take away the Red Cross and the contributions by the U.S., and takle away the UN with all the funds put into it by the US, and tell me what you come up with.

You say that the U.S is getting paid, and you neglect to say that the US is also paying for the goods it buys. Do the simple mathematics, if I pay more than I am paid, then the ones who I'm paying are getting richer than I am. This is the simple scenario painted by the article and it suggests that a downturn in the US economy will surely affect the rest of the world.

You are way out of line saying I am no better than the terrorists. I am far better than they are. I am not a coward who kills innocents just because of an escapee tendency to go drink wine in the hereafter in the bossom of some virgins. It is those who lack the hope and the strength to face another day in this life that kill themselves in the hope that things will be better for them in the hereafter.

I have told you the U.S. has been better at imperialism than the rest of those who are crying foul. Does imperialism sound like a virtue to you? Since my submission remains that other nations are guilty of whatever you may accuse the US of, then it is up to you to prove otherwise and not claim I should start pointing accusing fingers at the U.S. You tell us what faults different than others that the U.S. is guilty of.

The U.S, is fast heading towards isolating itself in the name of "homeland security" and I quake for you my "brothers" who have chosen that place as home because when it will happen there might not be any remedy.

Talking of double standards,

The US through its imperialist organisms like the world bank, IMF and indeed the UN advocate free market without subsidies in underdeveloped countries like ours while giving their farmers aids and grants to make them produce and sell profitably into our economies. They protect their markets, creating so many barriers while insisting that others open up theirs. Right now they are begging china to revalue their currency so that their exports which they now recognize has quality will not be so cheap. They have finally agreed to the existence of secret prisons in the european countries which is a direct infringement on the rule of law. I need not talk of guatanomo bay where they have seized cuba lands and set up a prison state to keep fellow human beings there perpetually. Their sins have been speaking against them and when their cup is full, "katrina" will be a child's play compared to what will be.

toshmann:

i don't hate the developed world, i hate injustice. i live in the developed world and i feel the injustice being done and it hurts more. i'm here for education and global exposure. they are ripping me off (tuition) so it's part of the injustice. and if i get the degree from home, they wont value my degree b/c it's from a naijan university. so i have to get it from their school and they rip me before i can get the degree. talk of fairness, how can a student from a poor country pay 3-5 times the fees that students from rich countries pay? and they must pay fully. those from rich countries get loans.

ok, before u ask why my country is poor etc i'll bring you back to the trade deals that sealed our poverty. who made the trade deals? ahaaaa. i hope you are begining to see things from my angle. u see, where there is poverty, there is discontent. with extreme poverty, life is next to worthless. signs of poverty in a society-corruption, crime, violence, prostitution etc how does your developed countries help poor countries out of this- they sell weapons to both sides of a war, the war creates refugees, they bring aid(which is actually tied to business and gain). for corruption they openly accept monies from corrupt african leaders into their banks. povety has reduced most african young girls to prostitutes and if you come to europe and see what girls do for "papers" u'll understand what i mean when i say the west has encouraged prostitution. how our girls are "uselessed" by these white people. i feel ashamed. yet these are our brightest girls. where does all this lead-wrecked tangible relationships, unwanted babies( why do you think there are many mixed race people in europe, mostly without their dad. where are the fathers?) divorce here and there.single mothers everywhere- a monumentally vicious cycle with unimaginable consequences on our social values.

due to poverty we have been reduced as a race to 2nd class. our culture is regarded as inferior and our color a disadvantage. do you think all this would have been possible if our country was not poor? poverty is terrible. do you want me to tell you about poverty? that needs a new thread.or forum. and this poverty is enshrined in WTO. trade is the answer. not aid. how many rich countries do u see fighting civil wars? huh?
like malcom X said, i reiterate, history has authorised me to call the white man evil.

It appears you blame the white race for everything. There are countries in South America and S.E Asia, in the Middle East to Northern Africa, and of course the best example of all. South Africa and Ghana. These countries are/were subject to the same unfair trade rules that Nigeria was/is subject to. These countries at some point along our history as an independent nation surpassed Nigeria. What did these countries do that we didn't? What do we do that they don't? The real problem we have in Nigeria are Nigerians.

The solution isin't faire trade. Fair trade deals are part of the solution. The real issue we must address in Nigeria is that of corruption and tribalism.