davidylan:

That is a point that only exists as a figment of imagination. A thief does not accuse another of stealing simply because he is the bigger thief! What is more worrying than those who deny their own citizens the right to freedom of expression and yet accuse another nation of imperialism!

Thank you. But, fact remains that those accusations are true. They are not made up and they are not divorced from reality. Simple, really.

@davidylan,

Thanks so much for coming out with the truth.  This is exactly what I have been trying to point out to these folks.  Those they consider heroes are as guilty of the same crime they are accusing the U.S. of.  So why would they neglect the actions of these guys and start crying foul about the U.S.  Smirks of hypocrisy doesn't it?

Nutter:

Thank you. But, fact remains that those accusations are true. They are not made up and they are not divorced from reality. Simple, really.

No sir! The bitter truth is that whereas the US may be accused of imperialism, she has continued to steadfastly fulfill her responsibilities to her citizens and those from her accusers who seek refuge with her.
The same cannot be said of those who stand on the throne of judgment, those whose citizens would rather be on the next flight out of Iran and Venezuela to the US!

Right. This is just carrying on unnecessarily. Simple question: Are the accusations against the US true or not? If true, then what is your point? If false, then show how. This is a simple enough matter. That those accusations came from Chavez is irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. If the US has been caught out, she (and her ‘followers’) should be able to say that much and immediately set about righting the wrongs instead of choosing to kill the messenger. That you lot think Chavez is worse than Bush takes absolutely nothing away from Bush's culpability. That is the point. We needn’t over-intellectualise this most basic element of morality and ethics.

@Nutter,

If indeed you guys are out to profer a solution to the world's problem, you will have to do so comprehensively and not attack a selected few. It's just like saying terrorism will end once Osama is reighned in. We know that isn't true. That Zawahiri accuses Osama of being a terrorist shouldn't make Zawahiri a hero unless he renounces and ceases his act of terrorism.

This logic is what we should bring to play here as well. Failure to do that only strengthens my earlier position that you guys are just on a US bashing mission. The problem here is imperialism and it must be addressed broadly and without a cheap recourse to character assasination and US bashing. When we treat it that way, then we can begin to agree on a common goal and means of attaining that goal.

@Topic,

This is a classical case of analysis paralysis, at the end of the day we will not even remember the issue on board.

May I remind some of us that the difference between the US on one hand and Iran & Venezuela on the other is that the US spreads a certain type of democracy to other nations using bombs and wars just as Chavez rightly pointed out while Iran & Venezuela are not spreading any ideology with bombs and wars.

How many countries in reality in the middle east are not practicing democracy and the US has the strongest ties with 2 of the countries that do not practice democracy - Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

Still on double standards by the US

About 3 or 4 days ago I could not believe my ears when I heard on CNN that the US was sending a team of business men/proposal to Lebanon as its contribution to rebuilding Lebanon, a country it supported its bombings. A good example of the US helping other countries, abi?

@Hugoboi,

Just saw your silly post and all I can state is that you are clueless as to the issues on board.

As is usual with those who suffer escapist tendency syndrome, a classic example of selective justice and selective amnesia!

While we are quick to point out US alleged "attrocities" we on the other hand excuse the attrocities commited by those nations with a penchant for accusing others of crimes they commit against their own people. If truly Chavez and Ahmedinajad are such heroes, one wonders why very few are queueing at their embassies for visas while queues as long as the sahara desert are at the doorsteps of the Americans!

The question is not whether the alleged US crimes are true or not, the integrity of those doing the accusing is what is at play here. We need to see "imperialism" with a broader view instead of the selective lenses that see only the US. The fact that the whole world is aware of American activities via the media while vrtually nothing is heard about the myriad of problems plaguing Iran and Venezuela is not enough excuse to crucify the US!

Afam:

@Topic,

This is a classical case of analysis paralysis, at the end of the day we will not even remember the issue on board.

May I remind some of us that the difference between the US on one hand and Iran & Venezuela on the other is that the US spreads a certain type of democracy to other nations using bombs and wars just as Chavez rightly pointed out while Iran & Venezuela are not spreading any ideology with bombs and wars.

You do not need to spread an ideology with wars and bombs, all you need is the finanial capability. Iran is without doubt a state-sponsor of terrorism and funnels funds and weapons to Hezbollah! Please get your facts right! It is not enough to appear to sound highfalutin, proper knowledge of issues is required!

@Davidylan,

I am learning to do selective reading on this forum.

On your own matter the day you googled something on Iran-Iraq war and came out with a position that the US did not support Iraq in the 8 year war was the day I knew I was dealing with someone with half knowledge, someone that does not think through anything but will readily search google and come out with wrong information.

I am waiting for the proper knowledge on the issue at hand (unless you have introduced another and proceeded to discuss that with yourself).

Meanwhile, you tend to use a lot of words that may warrant one to look for a dictionary before understanding your posts.

Keep things simple because only when the sender and receiver of information are clear on the message will you say you have communicated with your target audience.

Afam:

@Davidylan,

I am learning to do selective reading on this forum.

On your own matter the day you googled something on Iran-Iraq war and came out with a position that the US did not support Iraq in the 8 year war was the day I knew I was dealing with someone with half knowledge, someone that does not think through anything but will readily search google and come out with wrong information.

I am waiting for the proper knowledge on the issue at hand (unless you have introduced another and proceeded to discuss that with yourself).

Meanwhile, you tend to use a lot of words that may warrant one to look for a dictionary before understanding your posts.

Keep things simple because only when the sender and receiver of information are clear on the message will you say you have communicated with your target audience.

As usual, you completely avoid the crux of the matter to go on a personality attack! I simply replied your wrong perception that Iran is not involved in spreading an ideology of hate with wars and bombs! Pls leave your responses at the topic at hand and not attempting to use insults each time your crass ignorance is exposed!

As regarding the Iran-Iraq war, i do not take back my stance on who the US "supported"! You on the other hand attempt to make your posts sound like you do much more than simply watch CNN for a few hrs a day!

As for my language, it is not my perogative to make things clearer to you, in case you forgot, that was the purpose of attending schools!

@Davidylan,

Can you please restate your stance again for others to learn from you as regards who the US supported between Iran and Iraq so that others will appreciate your level of awareness and intelligence.

You are talking about school now but you were bold enough to state that the plural of pigs is swine

I guess you will be ripe for mature discussion when you are done with your schooling. Enjoy.

Afam:

@Davidylan,

Can you please restate your stance again for others to learn from you as regards who the US supported between Iran and Iraq so that others will appreciate your level of awareness and intelligence.

You are talking about school now but you were bold enough to state that the plural of pigs is swine

I guess you will be ripe for mature discussion when you are done with your schooling. Enjoy.

1. Please read the thread topic, it has nothing to do with the Iran-Iraq war!
2. Everyone makes mistakes at some point, the ability to recognise such and move ahead is vital to progress.
3. If you regard your posts as prime examples of "mature discussion", then you have a long way to go!

Enjoy your delusion, i will not be drawn into unseemly altercations with those who think information stops at there table, you are not the only one involved in this discussion however you are the only one who is always drawing personality clashes into simple topics addressing Chavez, Bush and Ahmedinajad! You might need to learn the rudiments of arguments from Nutter and Chxta both whom have been on your side of the argument without unecessarily going down to name calling! Have fun!

For a moment, I thought we had lost it when the opponents choose to remain silent in the face of very weak arguments by the proponents who were now under some delusion that they had carried the day. Please chxta and afam continue to give your opinions on this matter.

The US is a great country but they have long gone over board and its high time other governments do to them what they do to others.

Sudan has said it is restricting all US diplomatic personnel to some certain distance from a certain area in its capital city because the US refused to accord its diplomats free movememt in the course of the UN general meeting and the same also for venezuela whose high ranked official i understand was not permitted to leave the aircraft he came in for some time.

This is the type of double standards that some US goverments do that is creating problems for themselves. They the US and their foreign multinationals are the largest employer of labour in IRAQ; the result of a unilateral war they brought on a sovereign state. They now want to economically gain again in lebanon. The funniest part is they won't even allow other french or british companies - talk of selfishness.

The devil is indeed within and in the house and until you guys in America realise it there will be only the peace as it is in the grave yard.

Garri is not scarce in Nigeria before you propagate a falsehood that exists only on the pages of some nigerian newspapers sponsored covertly by the imperialists apologists. All the money stolen in the 3rd world countries find their way to banks in europe and america. Right now the sacked thai president is living large and off his loot which i hear took 3 planes to carry to the UK in London.

@Davidylan,

Now you are learning! It is good to know that you now admit that you made a mistake (unless that's not what your post was about).

The problem is that you have made so many and never bothered to acknowledge or correct any.

I agree with you on those that are on the same side of my arguement not going personal, I salute them, they have patience, I cannot stand people that don't understand what is happening and yet will want to make people believe they do and when disagreements set in they insult (while masking it anyway) their way through their weak arguements.

On what is good or bad, we don't have middle grounds. Enjoy.

@Otokx,

I remember when the US introduced time consuming checks at the airports especially for foreigners and in no time Brasil reciprocated and not until the US saw that sometimes it will take close to 2 hours for its citizens to scale through the type of checks that Brasil introduced did it relax some of those rules.

WHile Abach had his bad records I respect him so much for not taking dictations from the white house and even Tony Momoh had his own hour of reciprocation when the US renamed the street where our embassy was located in the US to Kudirat Abiola just to spite the Abacha junta. In less than one week the street where the US embassy was located in Lagos was renamed to Fahrrakan and strict instructions were given that correspondences headed towards the embassy that don't come with the new address will never get there.

Every country should be treated with respect.

Funny enough all the bad leaders in Africa had one form of support or the other from the West.

From crude oil to diamond, the West only gains when the regions that have these are in their pockets and if they can't control them they support chaos and wars.

Marshall plan worked in europe after WW11 but they will make sure that Africa does not develop because an independent and progressive Africa will spell doom for a lot of developed countries that feed fat on corrupt funds coming from Africa.

Why would Switzerland accept stolen funds and use same to develop their country?

The forced amalgamation of clearly distinct regions in Africa was basically to make sure that peace would elude the new but forced neighbours.

What is the population of everyone in Italy? I am sure the population in Lagos is about times 3 or 4 and yet Italy is a country.

Until the countries in the so called 3rd world begin to focus on the interests of their citizens and not those of the West nothing tangible can be achieved.

Today we see an EFCC that is doing all it can to paint a good picture for the West as regards 419 without even bothering to tackle the real issue - the issue of stupid, lazy and greedy foreigners that are always looking for a piece of the corrupt and looted funds.

Before some of us start asking what Italy and Africa are doing on this topic, the issues raised are interrelated in one way or the other.

@Afam,

At least now you are talking of Switzerland. I thought all the evil you see is only limited to the United States. Let the blame go round when it is justified and not just heap everything on the U.S.

@Otokx,

How much is a bag of garri now in Naija? I was in Naija in June and I can tell you first hand if you have no clue. And can you please tell us the average salary of low-incomers such as Drivers etc, Please compare that to the cost of garri and other food items and tell me if it is still not scarce. Scarcity in the sense I used it does not mean unavailable, it only means unaffordable.

TayoD:

@Afam,

At least now you are talking of Switzerland. I thought all the evil you see is only limited to the United States. Let the blame go round when it is justified and not just heap everything on the U.S.

Your thoughts have been completely wrong because I don't know where you got the idea of Afam seeing evil that is limited to US.

It is not enough for the blame to go round. The world wants change, the ills of different countries should be remedied.

Blaming someone without any resultant change will amount to nothing.

Afam:

@Davidylan,
I agree with you on those that are on the same side of my arguement not going personal, I salute them, they have patience, I cannot stand people that don't understand what is happening and yet will want to make people believe they do and when disagreements set in they insult (while masking it anyway) their way through their weak arguements.
On what is good or bad, we don't have middle grounds. Enjoy.

No sir! What you really meant to say was you cannot stomach others pointing out the fact that most of your posts lack intellectual substance. Have fun whinning!

Afam:

Today we see an EFCC that is doing all it can to paint a good picture for the West as regards 419 without even bothering to tackle the real issue - the issue of stupid, lazy and greedy foreigners that are always looking for a piece of the corrupt and looted funds.
Before some of us start asking what Italy and Africa are doing on this topic, the issues raised are interrelated in one way or the other.

I have visited quite a few of those countries run by those "stupid, lazy and greedy" foreigners, you should see the level of corruption, poverty and mismanagement that exists there! Nothing compared to Nigeria ruled by "wise, hardworking and selfless" Nigerians!

Afam:

the issue of stupid, lazy and greedy foreigners that are always looking for a piece of the corrupt and looted funds.

Why do we Nigerians keep insisting on this?

TayoD:

Please compare that to the cost of garri and other food items and tell me if it is still not scarce. Scarcity in the sense I used it does not mean unavailable, it only means unaffordable.

Please, stop redefining words to suit your stance. ‘Scarcity’ does not mean ‘Unaffordable’. When an error in your submission is pointed out, accept it, make adjustments, and move on. It’s ‘justifications’ like you have attempted that cause arguments to carry on endlessly without any discernable purpose.

davidylan:

No sir! What you really meant to say was you cannot stomach others pointing out the fact that most of your posts lack intellectual substance. Have fun whinning!

I have visited quite a few of those countries run by those "stupid, lazy and greedy" foreigners, you should see the level of corruption, poverty and mismanagement that exists there! Nothing compared to Nigeria ruled by "wise, hardworking and selfless" Nigerians!

Intellectual substance? If only wishes were horses.

Do I really need to print out my post, shred it, mix it with water, open your skull and pour the mixture in before you understand anything here?

Your last paragraph ought to focus on 419 issues, my reference to the foreigners were clearly limited to issues concerning 419 and not poverty and the other areas you wanted to force the discussion on.

I am glad you have lost your voice completely when issues are discussed, you popo in once in a while to attend to personal remarks as you have nothing to offer as regards issues on board.

@Nutter,

Please try to read a person's posts in context before you just arrive at conclusions that best suits your predispositions. Here is my stament in full with regards to scarcity of garri in naija:

But you also fail to state here that every goods and foodstuff coming into the U.S. from African countries are exempted from tarrifs at the U.S. Ports. This was done to stimulate more trade and to encourage African Enterpreneurs. But the down side of this which the Nigerian government has failed to tackle, is the fact that many would rather send their garri to the U.S. and get paid (though some will like us to believe that the U.S. gets them for free), than to make the produce available in Naija for less. This means garri is now scarcer in naija and more expensive than it should be. Cassava growers will like to export them to China and the rest of Asia than to sell them in the local markets for less. This action has led to more food insecurity in that country.

I would expect you to tackle the issue I raised and to prove my conslusions wrong by a superior argument, but instead you just want to lay hold of a word that clearly means another thing in the context I have used it.

Why don't you say anything about the tarrif-free trade that the U.S. grants African Enterpreneurs? A simple law of economics tells you that excess supply of a good will translate to lower prices and scarcity of that same good will mean higher prices. So if the cost of garri is going up in naija doesn't that relate to scarcity and not excess? Please tell us.

Afam said he has some business interest in the U.S. Perhaps he also trades in foodstufss. Maybe you can get some education from him in this regard.

TayoD:
Afam said he has some business interest in the U.S. Perhaps he also trades in foodstufss. Maybe you can get some education from him in this regard.

How did US get into the equation of garri? I had thought you were explaining why garri was scarce in Nigeria due to huge export of cassava to the China and other Asian countries.

My business interest is in the area of technology, at least you won't ask someone to ask me to explain fufu or ogi related issue in future.

@Afam,

Your response to the issue of gari and the U.S. just shows you either don't understand what you read or you are outright dishonest and bent on painting those who have varying opinions to yours bad.

Maybe you should tell us what you understand by my statement, then I can begin to explain it to you so you can understand. Or am I the one not communicating clearly enough?

@TayoD,

TayoD:

@Nutter,

Please try to read a person's posts in context before you just arrive at conclusions that best suits your predispositions. Here is my stament in full with regards to scarcity of garri in naija:

But you also fail to state here that every goods and foodstuff coming into the U.S. from African countries are exempted from tarrifs at the U.S. Ports. This was done to stimulate more trade and to encourage African Enterpreneurs. But the down side of this which the Nigerian government has failed to tackle, is the fact that many would rather send their garri to the U.S. and get paid (though some will like us to believe that the U.S. gets them for free), than to make the produce available in Naija for less. This means garri is now scarcer in naija and more expensive than it should be. Cassava growers will like to export them to China and the rest of Asia than to sell them in the local markets for less. This action has led to more food insecurity in that country.

I would expect you to tackle the issue I raised and to prove my conslusions wrong by a superior argument, but instead you just want to lay hold of a word that clearly means another thing in the context I have used it.

Why don't you say anything about the tarrif-free trade that the U.S. grants African Enterpreneurs? A simple law of economics tells you that excess supply of a good will translate to lower prices and scarcity of that same good will mean higher prices. So if the cost of garri is going up in naija doesn't that relate to scarcity and not excess? Please tell us.

Afam said he has some business interest in the U.S. Perhaps he also trades in foodstufss. Maybe you can get some education from him in this regard.

This is what I was worried you would do. Attempt a continuation of your justification by throwing digs. I read your statement and then went back to search for a fit by way of context. I found none. The portion of your text which is in bold was particularly scrutinised by me. I wonder why it is that you still do not see anything wrong. Just to prove my point, I’ll draw your attention to a particular sentence: “This means garri is now scarcer in naija and more expensive than it should be”. Does this sentence by you not immediately draw a distinction between scarcity as we know it, and affordability? Why are you now telling us they are the same in order to bolster your end of the argument? Perhaps you can explain that.

*If they were used to represent the same thing, your sentence would/should have read: “or more expensive. . . .” not “and more expensive. . . .”

*Stop being so defensive. What I said was not said in malice but for you to take corrective measures. If you think otherwise, then that’s fine. Your sentence speaks for itself. Maybe you should fully understand the import of your statements before you share them on a public forum.

*As regards your advice that I get an education from Afam on the intricacies of foodstuff trade, perhaps I shall (whether it's his area of expertise or not). After all, ‘man must wack’. 

*In reference to your question about if you are the one not communicating clearly enough, I believe, given your above remark, that we can all say 'YES' without fear of contradiction.

@Nutter,

I believe my explaining what I meant earlier goes to show that I am in agreement that my statement could have being better worded. I would expect you to take that in a gentlemanly way and allow the conversation to progress while noting the point I brought forward. But trying to tell me I meant what I did not mean is just way out of line.

On the other hand, going by the economic terms I used, the 'and' in my statement is justifiable. Scarcity is directly proportional to trading value. In other words, the cost of garri in naija is the effect of the scarcity of garri. Scarcity in economics does not mean unavailability. it means there is more demand than the supply, and such a situation creates an increase in the price of the particular commodity. It is a cause and effect scenario.

Hope you will be at ease now.

You are now in agreement that your statement 'could have been better worded'. No more fire and brimstone. You no see yourself now? Tut, tut, tut.

Afam:

Intellectual substance? If only wishes were horses.

Do I really need to print out my post, shred it, mix it with water, open your skull and pour the mixture in before you understand anything here?

Your last paragraph ought to focus on 419 issues, my reference to the foreigners were clearly limited to issues concerning 419 and not poverty and the other areas you wanted to force the discussion on.

I am glad you have lost your voice completely when issues are discussed, you popo in once in a while to attend to personal remarks as you have nothing to offer as regards issues on board.

When you compare and contrast your posts with others on this board it's enough to make one wince with revulsion. There have been opposing banters on this topic, unfortunately yours is the only one that deviates to personal insults as soon as your inadequacy is exposed.

From now on all you will recieve from me is ,

I'd rather argue with those who know that we can disagree on oppinions without unecessarily stooping so low!

As for "losing my voice", it will interest you to note that some of us do have important things to do beyond wasting words, time and energy on belligerent individuals like you! Have a good day! Pls do not attempt to reply to any posts of mine anymore!

@Nutter,

Of course. I will do better next time to understand that I need not use technical terms with you and some others when making a contribution on nairaland. I just need to assume that I am talking to my 5 year old niece and make my statements as simple as possible becaue I wouldn't expect some reasoning on your part. But then, even after making an explanation of the same statement, you still blurted out such words.

In any case, now that you've rightly acknowledge that you know nothing about the trade relations of African countries and the U.S., why are you then condemning the U.S. as regards unfair trade?

TayoD:

@Nutter,

Of course. I will do better next time to understand[b] that I need not use technical terms with you [/b] and some others when making a contribution on nairaland. I just need to assume that I am talking to my 5 year old niece and make my statements as simple as possible becaue I wouldn't expect some reasoning on your part. But then, even after making an explanation of the same statement, you still blurted out such words.

In any case, now that you've rightly acknowledge that you know nothing about the trade relations of African countries and the U.S., why are you then condemning the U.S. as regards unfair trade?

  Now you are making yourself look ridiculous. All this could have been avoided if you had shown a little more humility. Now you are attacking me because I pointed out that you were mistaken. Just keep pushing, will you. We'll soon make this very ugly.

*I didn't know 'scarcity' was a technical term.

*I'm a proud holder of an Economics degree - 2.1 for that matter. Don't think for a moment that you can come here using economics as shelter. I will remain on hand to reveal your many inadequacies.

*Choose your next words carefully. You have been warned.

TayoD:

@Nutter,

Of course. I will do better next time to understand that I need not use technical terms with you and some others when making a contribution on nairaland. I just need to assume that I am talking to my 5 year old niece and make my statements as simple as possible becaue I wouldn't expect some reasoning on your part. But then, even after making an explanation of the same statement, you still blurted out such words.

In any case, now that you've rightly acknowledge that you know nothing about the trade relations of African countries and the U.S., why are you then condemning the U.S. as regards unfair trade?

Fallacy. I'd have risen to Nutter's defence here, but as he is very capable, I'll wait for the reply. This would be interesting. . .

Oops!

I was late.

@Nutter,

I await your response to prove my wrong use of the words as related to economics. I am not an economics major, but at least I was the best at it in my secondary school days. And by the way, your humble self is an Ijebu (economics is a way of life)

Talking about trade now. Have you heard about AGOA? Maybe your knowledge of this would make you see the U.S. in a better light. You can check out the site at http://agoa.info/

Fi mi le jare. Ma she kin begi fun eh lati aro kutu kutu!