Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,149,767 members, 7,806,100 topics. Date: Tuesday, 23 April 2024 at 11:25 AM

To All God-believers - Religion (2) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / To All God-believers (2963 Views)

Is The Holy Spirit Present In The Life Of Both Believers And Unbelievers? / Bible Believers Challenge #biblebelieverschallenge Day1 / Shocking: Atheists Are Right After All, God Does Not Exist!!!! (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: To All God-believers by Brown47: 12:32am On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:

Why do you say that ?

thats if you can explain eternal for me.
Re: To All God-believers by johnydon22(m): 7:07am On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:


This really doesn't work out for you. I can spin it against you by asking why somehow a complex universe and even more complex life don't have a designer.
(this will be the first assumption)
First you will have to determine what an undesigned universe will look like, point out the factors that you think helps your case that the universe is designed. . .we'll see how good that will help you smiley

I would tell you that designer doesn't have to be complex, being non-physical it isn't composed of various parts.
(second assumption)
And then your designer claim simply would be dismissed because non-physical and has no parts amounts to NOTHING. . .it really isn't worth arguing over

Finally, I can simply assert that this even-more complex entity always existd just as you assume of the complex universe.
(third assumption)
It is settled then, the universe can always have existed infinitely backwards and therefore doesn't need this your complex entity to exist. . . . and this part eliminates your designer entity entirely...

So you see, this really is not an good argument at all, unless you are dishonest.
Yeah everything you just stated up there ranging from things you may come up to argue for your designer is clear enough to show everyone that its all a blatant show of ASSUMPTIONS. . .and am sure that assumptions is the greatest form of delusion .

By the way, saying houses are inanimate, or that 'organic matter are known to reproduce' doesn't help your case. It simply shows how much more complex living things are compared to houses.
It shows organic matters are able to develop, multiply and evolve without this your designer being in the picture.

lets assume a designer actually designed the universe, first there is no way you could know anything about it only assumptions, thats why i took time to give a detailed labeled tag of assumptions to all the points you thought you could assume up to argue for your designer hypothesis.

Very funny you really need to step up your game because with all this you mentioned its not hard to discern you are still learning.
Re: To All God-believers by frank317: 7:47am On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:


No, God is eternal. He has always existed.

Pls kindly tell me how you got to know this. Thank you
Re: To All God-believers by UyiIredia(m): 7:57am On Jul 08, 2015
Brown47:

thats if you can explain eternal for me.
Eternal means that something has always existed.
Re: To All God-believers by johnydon22(m): 8:01am On Jul 08, 2015
frank317:

Pls kindly tell me how you got to know this. Thank you
Its called ASSUMPTIONS
Re: To All God-believers by UyiIredia(m): 8:01am On Jul 08, 2015
frank317:


Pls kindly tell me how you got to know this. Thank you

That is how God is by definition. If God is not eternal, that means He isn't omnipresent since He hasn't always existed and one of God's qualities is in question.
Re: To All God-believers by UyiIredia(m): 9:10am On Jul 08, 2015
johnydon22:
(this will be the first assumption)
First you will have to determine what an undesigned universe will look like, point out the factors that you think helps your case that the universe is designed. . .we'll see how good that will help you smiley

This is bollocks. Do you know how a designed universe must look to determine that this one was not designed ?

johnydon22:
(second assumption)
And then your designer claim simply would be dismissed because non-physical and has no parts amounts to NOTHING. . .it really isn't worth arguing over

Nonsense. Just because it's non-physical doesn't man it's nothing. Time, love and beauty are non-physical, they aren't nothing.

johnydon22:
(third assumption)
It is settled then, the universe can always have existed infinitely backwards and therefore doesn't need this your complex entity to exist. . . . and this part eliminates your designer entity entirely...

This shows how your bias clouds your judgement. You believe that the universe could always have existed. When I assert the same of God you insist He must have had a designer.


johnydon22:
Yeah everything you just stated up there ranging from things you may come up to argue for your designer is clear enough to show everyone that its all a blatant show of ASSUMPTIONS. . .and am sure that assumptions is the greatest form of delusion .

Actually, assumptions aren't delusional. Science itself typically involves assumptions. We also assume many things in everyday life.

johnydon22:
It shows organic matters are able to develop, multiply and evolve without this your designer being in the picture.

lets assume a designer actually designed the universe, first there is no way you could know anything about it only assumptions, thats why i took time to give a detailed labeled tag of assumptions to all the points you thought you could assume up to argue for your designer hypothesis.

Very funny you really need to step up your game because with all this you mentioned its not hard to discern you are still learning.

What is the evidence that shows life arose and evolved naturally ?
Re: To All God-believers by johnydon22(m): 9:26am On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:


This is bollocks. Do you know how a designed universe must look to determine that this one was not designed ?
Since you do not know your criteria that determines a designed universe, isn't it better you just drop the argument to avoid more of your assumptions


Nonsense. Just because it's non-physical doesn't man it's nothing. Time, love and beauty are non-physical, they aren't nothing.

Hahahahahaha i am damned. .

TIME is a human concept that determines duration not an entity. . just a concept (an idea)

LOVE is an emotion and not an entity..

BEAUTY is a concept to depict a view that is pleasurable to the eyes, views are physical and therefore beauty is dependent on the physical and again beauty is not an entity..

Have you seen why i said you are still young at this? when you start comparing human ideas like time, love and beauty to a supposed living entity (GOD) shows you are still new to the world of logic. . unless you would say your concept of god is not a living entity but just an idea after all wink



This shows how your bias clouds your judgement. You believe that the universe could always have existed. When I assert the same of God you insist He must have had a designer.
Nope the universe is the combination of everything there is and to assert a source for the universe still means that source is part of the universe.

By employing an independent source which by definition there is no way you could have known brings the chain of infinite regress into play. . since an entity independent of the universe made the universe, it must also mean an entity independent of that entity made that entity and so it spans into the chain of infinite regress.

But since the universe is EVERYTHING in existence, it takes only common sense to know whatever was, is and will be still are part of the universe.




Actually, assumptions aren't delusional. Science itself typically involves assumptions. We also assume many things in everyday life.
Scientific method: Study, experiment and observations. . . its blatantly distinct from this your ASSUMPTIVE method which is plain delusion. . there you go, you just agreed all your assertions and claims of a designer are just assumptions


What is the evidence that shows life arose and evolved naturally ?
Everything around the universe and the universe itself is nature. life is part of nature and so is nature..every PROCESS in the dimension of nature is nature. . .You live in a natural universe and ask how NATURAL life sprang forth in a NATURAL universe... Thats a huge cognitive blunder if you ask me... Since you agree life is NATURAL, your question already is self answered unless you would like to argue life isn't natural wink

1 Like

Re: To All God-believers by UyiIredia(m): 9:58am On Jul 08, 2015
johnydon22:
Since you do not know your criteria that determines a designed universe, isn't it better you just drop the argument to avoid more of your assumptions

I can establish a criteria but that wasn't your point. It is silly to insist I must know how an undesigned universe looks to assert that this one is designed. There are actually reasons to believe this universe is designed.


johnydon22:
[quote author=johnydon22 post=35618663]
Hahahahahaha i am damned. . TIME is a human concept that determines duration not an entity. . just a concept (an idea)

LOVE is an emotion and not a entity..

BEAUTY is a concept to depict a view that is pleasurable to the eyes, views are physical and therefore beauty is dependent on the physical and again beauty is not an entity..

Have you seen why i said you are still young at this? when you start comparing human ideas like time, love and beauty to a supposed living entity (GOD) shows you are still new to the world of logic. . unless you would say your concept of god is not a living entity but just an idea after all wink

You are being stup*d. The essence of using concepts such as love and beauty was to show that being non-physical doesn't always mean nothing, and that applies to God.

johnydon22:
Nope the universe is the combination of everything there is and to assert a source for the universe still means that source is part of the universe.

By employing an independent source which by definition there is no way you could have known brings the chain of infinite regress into play. . since an entity independent of the universe made the universe, it must also mean an entity independent of that entity made that entity and so it spans into the chain of infinite regress.

But since the universe is EVERYTHING in existence, it takes only common sense to know whatever was, is and will be still are part of the universe.

This is a bunch of nonsense really. One, the source of the universe doesn't have to be part of the universe, causes aren't always cojoined with their effects. Furthermore, there is nothing to God that prevents me from knowing Him. Finally, your statement that an infinite regress comes into play is just that, an assertion. You are the one insisting there must be an infinite regress of God, ignoring the fact that by definition, God is uncaused.

johnydon22:
Scientific method: Study, experiment and observations. . . its blatantly distinct from this your ASSUMPTIVE method which is plain delusion. . there you go, you just agreed all your assertions and claims of a designer are just assumptions

The scientific method involves assumptions. One fundamental assumption being that nature is consistent, in other words, what holds true today will always hold true. Feel free to Google the terms science and assumptions and educate yourself.

johnydon22:
Everything around the universe and the universe itself is nature. life is part of nature and so is nature. . .You live in a natural universe and ask how NATURAL life sprang forth in a NATURAL universe... Thats a huge cognitive blunder if you ask me... Since you agree life is NATURAL, your question already is self answered unless you would like to argue life isn't natural wink

The cognitive blunder is on you. I only agree that life is natural since it is part of the physical world. The same of the universe. This does not mean that I believe that life came about naturally by which I mean non-living aspects of nature eg sunlight, soil etc effected life. If you believe life came about without God, and by non-living aspects of nature, and if you claim to hold a position based on reason, then you should have evidence that shows that natural factors made life. Again, where is the evidence ?
Re: To All God-believers by Nobody: 10:14am On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:
There are actually reasons to believe this universe is designed.


So what are your reasons for believing that the Universe was designed?
Re: To All God-believers by UyiIredia(m): 10:41am On Jul 08, 2015
timonski:
So what are your reasons for believing that the Universe was designed?
https://www.nairaland.com/2353987/three-arguments-gods-existence
Re: To All God-believers by frank317: 10:50am On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:


That is how God is by definition. If God is not eternal, that means He isn't omnipresent since He hasn't always existed and one of God's qualities is in question.

What? thats not an answer to mo my question. How did you know God is eternal and that he has no body parts? and you give me that poo?

i even thought you weren't joking. thanks for wasting my time.
Re: To All God-believers by Nobody: 10:57am On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:


http
Look, 'design' is an illusion of the senses. We always know a phenomenal reality- a reality of apperances. We know reality as it appears to us by the categories of our knowledge. We never know the noumenic aspect of reality- reality as it is in itself.
When we apply our knowledge to matters beyond experience, we fall into antinomies of reason.
Re: To All God-believers by UyiIredia(m): 10:58am On Jul 08, 2015
frank317:


What? thats not an answer to mo my question. How did you know God is eternal and that he has no body parts? and you give me that poo?

i even thought you weren't joking. thanks for wasting my time.

It's probably best you think it's not an answer. Going by your reaction any answer I give will be lost on you. Good day.
Re: To All God-believers by UyiIredia(m): 11:02am On Jul 08, 2015
timonski:

Look, 'design' is an illusion of the senses. We always know a phenomenal reality- a reality of apperances. We know reality as it appears to us by the categories of our knowledge. We never know the noumenic aspect of reality- reality as it is in itself.
When we apply our knowledge to matters beyond experience, we fall into antinomies of reason.

Design is not an illusion. If we don't know reality as it is then science is a waste of time. Through reason, we can actually know reality in itself.
Re: To All God-believers by Nobody: 11:09am On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:


Design is not an illusion. If we don't know reality as it is then science is a waste of time. Through reason, we can actually know reality in itself.
Science can only study the phenomenal reality, dude.
So what kind of design is found in sand dunes? If so, who designed them?
Re: To All God-believers by UyiIredia(m): 11:15am On Jul 08, 2015
timonski:

Science can only study the phenomenal reality, dude.
So what kind of design is found in sand dunes? If so, who designed them?

No, science studies reality in itself. The very enterprise of science is a quest to know reality in itself. Sand dunes are seen being made naturally, the ways by which they are made are known. I wonder why you used sand dunes, why not bacteria.
Re: To All God-believers by frank317: 11:39am On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:


It's probably best you think it's not an answer. Going by your reaction any answer I give will be lost on you. Good day.

You actually are sure any answer you give me will be lost on my? I am sure u know quite well that that is not an answer and i would be most foolish to accept that.

still if you think you have a better answer i will be glad to know. but if you think i wouldnt understand then perhaps i am not meant to understand.
Re: To All God-believers by dalaman: 11:44am On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:


No, God is eternal. He has always existed.

You know this how? Where is God located so that we can go and ask him?
Re: To All God-believers by Brown47: 3:05pm On Jul 08, 2015
UyiIredia:

Eternal means that something has always existed.
do you believe that everything has a begining?

(1) (2) (Reply)

Awakening Jehovah’s Witnesses By Dismantling The Watchtower / Non-muslim Views About Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) / Stephen Hawking: "There Is No God. There Is No Afterlife."

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 68
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.