By Syed Kamran Mirza



Historical evidences, impartial logic, well versed references and all available circumstantial judgments can very well prove that—(a) Allah name of deity was pre-existed much before the arrival of Islam, (b) Pre-Islamic Pagan peoples worshipped Allah as their supreme deity (moon-god). Allah’s name existed in pre-Islamic Arab. In ancient Arab the Allah was considered to be the supreme God/deity (as Moon-God) and Arab Pagans worshipped Allah before Islam arrived.



Let us examine below some valid questions and answers :

Did the Pagan Arabs in pre-Islamic times worship 360 gods? Yes

Did the pagans Arabs worship the sun, moon and the stars? Yes

Did the Arabs built temples to the Moon-god? Yes

Did different Arab tribes give the Moon-god different names/titles? Yes

What were some of the names/titles? Sin, Hubul, Ilumquh, Al-ilah.

Was the title “al-ilah” (the god) used as the Moon-god? Yes

Was the word “Allah” derived from “al-ilah?” Yes

Was the pagan “Allah” a high god in a pantheon of deities? Yes.

Was he worshipped at the Kabah? Yes.

Was Allah only one of many Meccan gods? Yes

Did they place a statue of Hubul on top of the Kabah? Yes.

At that time was Hubul considered the Moon-god? Yes.

Was the Kabah thus the “house of the Moon-god”? Yes.

Did the name “Allah” eventually replace that of Hubul as the name of the Moon god? Yes.

Did they call the Kabah the “house of Allah”? Yes.

Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called “the daughters of Allah”? Yes.

Yusuf Ali explains in fn. 5096, pg. 1445, that Lat, Uzza and Manat were known as “the daughters of God [Allah]”

Did the Qur’an at one point tell Muslims to worship al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat? Yes. In Surah 53:19-20.

Have those verses been “abrogated” out of the present Qur’an? Yes.

What were they called? “The Satanic Verses.”



The variable names (Sin, Hubul, llumquh, Al-ilah) of moon god were used by various tribes of pagan Arabs. Pagan god SIN was the name of Moon-god.





Who is actually Allah?



According to Islamic Theologians (Mullahs, Maulana, Moulavis, etc.), or Islamic teachings-- Allah is the supreme God or creator who (suddenly one day?) talked or introduced Himself with Prophet Muhammad through an Angel named Gabriel, disclosing the truth that it is the Allah who created everything in the universe. Surprisingly, Qur’an never defines the word “Allah” as to who actually Allah was or what was the relation of Allah with pagans. I believe, 99% percent of Muslims do believe that—Allah’s name was invented or started right from the time when Gabriel disclosed the truth (?) to Prophet Muhammad in the cave of Hira Parvat (Mountain) and gave Muhammad the Quran. They believe that before this truth was revealed—pagan Arabs were in the total darkness (Andhakar Zuug) and they used to worship various puppet goddess and that the pagans were very evil people. I can bet on this fact that no mullahs ever told us the real truth, neither they believe this clean truth that “Allah” was in fact a pre-existing deity in pagan Arabia. What a hypocrisy?



Some important factors which will suggest that the name“Allah” was already in use by Pagans as their chief God/deity:



(A) In pre-Islamic days, that Muslims call the Days of ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through Moon, Sun, Stars, Planets, Animals, wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity. At Mekka, “Allah” was the chief of the gods and the special deity of the Quraish, the prophet’s tribe. Allah had three daughters: Al Uzzah (Venus) most revered of all and pleased with human sacrifice; Manah, the goddess of destiny, and Al Lat, the goddess of vegetable life. These three daughters of Allah (there is a Quranic verse about them) were considered very powerful over all things. Therefore, their intercessions on behalf of their worshippers were of great significance.

(B) Arabs used to give their children names such as—Abdullah (slave of Allah). Clean proof was the fact that, Muhammad’s father’s name was “Abdullah”. Logical analogy here is—had there been no “Allah” in pre-Islamic Arab, there could be no Abdullah or slave of Allah in Arabia.

(C) Even today, in the entire Arab World, not only Muslims but all other non-Muslim (Jews, Christians, Sabians, Bahai, an atheist etc.) Arabs says—“Ya Allah” as the expression of surprise or unhappiness/sorrow.

(D). Albert Hourani’s statement: “The Islamic name used for God was “Allah”, which was already in use for one of the local Gods (it now used by Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians as the name of God (A history Of Arab people by Albert Hourani, 1991, page-16, Belknap press of Harvard University, USA)



History tells us two theories of Allah’s existence in and around the Kaba Sharif: (1) Pagans used to call the largest Statue amongst the 360 deities as ALLAH—whom they used to consider the chief/supreme deity (god). Or, (2) Pagan Arabs used to worship 360 deities inside Kaba Sharif, and they used to consider them different smaller deities under the total control of a single most powerful chief deity called “ALLAH” who was invisible (Nirakar) and was the all-powerful, all-knowing, and totally unknowable.



Amazing Similarities with Hindu Religion:



In India’s Hindu religion is quite similar to the number two theory (above) of pagan belief. Although, Hindus worship many different Goddesses—they invariably have faith upon a single supreme invisible deity called “Bhagaban” (some call it “Ischhaar”) whom they call “Nirakar”. And, surprisingly there is no sculptural image/figure for this Bhagaban. But all Hindus worship Him along with other numerous deities. This Bhagaban is considered as the lord of all other deities. What would happen—if some intelligent prophet would have asked Hindus to give up worshipping other goddesses and keeping only Bhagaban as their only deity making it a monotheist religion just like Islam? Could it not be another religion like Islam?



Now some factors which will suggest “Allah” was the Moon-god of Arab pagans:



(A) In Qura’n there are at least a dozen verses in which Allah repeatedly swears by the names such as moon, sun, stars, planets, night, wind etc. It is a mystery why the creator Allah (?) should swear by his creations. Normally, we swear by the name of something much superior to us, such as we swear by God or by the name of our father (who is considered senior or superior to us). But we never swear by the name of something inferior to us. Here in the Quran swearing fashions of Allah (God) by moon or stars hinting us that Allah considered these things superior to himself. And this makes us to think (otherwise) as to who actually acted as Allah in Quran? However, in his explanation of why the Qur’an swears by the moon in Surah 74:32, “Nay, verily by the Moon,” Yusuf Alli comments, “The moon was worshipped as a deity in times of darkness”(fn. 5798, pg. 1644). Perhaps, this swearing of Allah was due to the usual/cultural habits of worshipping moon as their God in pagan customs.



(B) Yousuf Ali stated (Page-1921-1623 of his English Translation of Holy Quran):



“Moon-worship was equally popular in various forms………Apollo and Diana—the twin brother and sister, representing the sun and moon. …in the Vedic religion of India the moon god was Soma, the lord of the planets…….moon was male divinity in ancient India. Moon was also male divinity in ancient Semitic religion, and the Arabic word for the moon “qamar’ is of the masculine gender, on the other hand, the Arabic word for sun “shams” is feminine gender. The pagan Arabs evidently looked upon the sun as a goddess and the moon as a God.



The Pagan deities best known in the Ka’ba and round about Mecca were Lat, Uzza, and Manat.…the 360 idols established by the Pagans in the Ka’ba probably represented the 360 days of an inaccurate solar year. This was the actual modern pagan worship as known to the Quraish contemporary with our prophet”



(C) Influence of Moon in Islam:



Who can deny the paramount influences of moon in Muslim’s life? In Islam, moon is considered holiest astronomical object, and moon is the guiding light of all Islamic rituals/festivals. Contradictions and conflicts are very common with the dates of Eids and Ramadan and obviously it is a chronic problem and moon is the nucleus of this problem. Crescent moon and stars are the symbolic sign in the national flags of many Muslim countries, and it is present over the Mosques, in the Muslim graveyard etc.



Prophet Muhammad compromised to Pagans to establish Islam in Arabia:



Prophet Muhammad did his clever tactics of adapting many rites of paganism into Islam, in order to accommodate Islam among the pagan Arabs. He made lots of political pacts with the Pagan Leaders such as Abu Suffian to accommodate his new idea of religion and he agreed to incorporate many of the Pagan rituals in Islam. Prophet Muhammad asked the pagans to worship only the “Allah” the largest God,

And destroy the idols of all other gods and goddesses that existed in Kabah. To establish oneness (monotheist) of God, he repeatedly asked them not to make any partners to Allah (That is why we can find hundreds of Quranic verses “asking not to make any partners to Allah). Finally, the Prophet was able to convince (by force of course) the pagans to destroy all idols, and on return (he) agreed (perhaps) to keep the “Names” of the goddess of most famous Pagan tribes as the alternative names of Allah—hence Islam has 99 NAMES of Allah.



Prophet Muhammad did command his followers to participate in these pagan ceremonies while the pagans were still in control of Mecca. (Please See Yusuf Ali, fn. 214, pg. 78). , “the whole of the [pagan] pilgrimage was spiritualized in Islam, ” (Yusuf Ali: fn. 223 pg. 80). In the Tafsir (of Quran-2:200) maoulana Yousuf Ali stated: “After Pilgrimage, in Pagan times, the pilgrims used to gather in assemblies in which the praises of ancestors were sung. As the whole of the pilgrimage rites were spiritualized in Islam, so this aftermath of the Pilgrimage was also spiritualized. It was recommended for pilgrims to stay on two or three days after the pilgrimage, but they must use them in prayer and praise to God.(#223 of Shane’nazul by Maoulana Yousuf Ali, page-81)



In Islam many rituals performed (today) by devoted Muslims in the name of Allah are connected to the pagan worship that existed before Islam. Pagans practices of the Pilgrimage of Kabah once a year--the Fast of Ramadan, running around the Kabah seven times, kissing the black stone, shaving the head, animal sacrifices, running up and down two hills, throwing stones at the devil, snorting water in and out the nose, praying several times a day toward Mecca, giving alms, Friday prayers, etc. are strictly followed by Muslims today. Nobody can deny the fact that, all the above rituals of Muslim’s hajj today—existed well before the arrival of Islam.



It is highly plausible to consider the fact that by incorporating much of the Pagan’s rituals in new religion Islam—Prophet successfully reduced the pagan-risk and it was perhaps one of the most important milestone-attempts to conquer the minds of Pagans resulting in massive breakdown of the Pagans’ moral and support to oppose Islam.

The central shrine at Mekka was the Pagan’s Kaaba (called House of Allah), a cube like stone structure which still stands though many times rebuilt. Imbedded in one corner is the black stone, probably a meteorite, the kissing of which is now an essential part of the Muslim’s pilgrimage.



It is the historical fact that the Ka’aba, the sacred shrine which contains the Black Stone, in Mecca was used for pagan idol worship before Islam and even called the House of Allah at that time. The name of the God whom the Arabs worshipped was the god of pantheon—Ali-ilah the god, the supreme, the predeterminer of everybody’s life or destiny—the chief God “Allah”



Who did not read the story of BLACK STONE which was very sacred (povitra) to all various tribes of Quraish. When one day this sacred stone was needed to transfer from one place to another, there was a quarrel amongst the various tribes, as to who will carry that sacred stone? Then most intelligent and righteous young boy Muhammad (was not a prophet then) invented the solution of this serious problem. He (Muhammad) put this sacred stone over a Chaddor (piece of cloth) and asked one representative from each tribe to hold the Chaddor and carry the stone. I narrated this story briefly just to prove that—black stone did exist long before Islam was invented.

In summary, it has been truthfully and logically proven with all possible available circumstantial evidences/rational that, Islam was not a new religion but it is a reformed paganism. I believe thatall these monotheistic religions have more or less similar origins. This idea of monotheistic religion was not a brand new invention. Monotheistic thought was declared by Ancient Pharaoh Kings, Mesopotamia’s king Hamarubi (3000 B.C.), and Alexander the Great (300 B.C.). Differences were, these kings demanded that they themselves were the God whom everybody should worship.



References:



1. The Holy Qur’an, Translated by A. Yousuf Ali, Published by Amana Corporation, Brentwood, Maryland, 1983

2. Buchari Sharif, Bengali Translation by Maulana Muhammad Mustafizur Rahman, Sulemani Printers and Publishers, Dhaka, Second edition-1999

3. A History of the Arab peoples, by Albert Hourani, the Belknap press of Harvard University press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1991

4. Dr. Robert Morey, 1996 Research and Education Foundation.

5. Gilchrist, The Temple, The Ka’aba, and the Christ (Benoni, South Africa, 1980), p. 16.

6. G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, (Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994), pg. 138

7. Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim, (Prometheus, Amherst, 1995) p. 42.



8. Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Lewis, Menage, Pellat, Schacht (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1971, II:1093.)

9. Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (ed. Hastings), I:326.



10.The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Mythology, Arthur Cotterell and Rachel Storm, Lorenz Books, New York 10011, Anness Publishing Limited 1999

11. Roots of the Western Tradition, (a short history of ancient world) by C.Warren Hollister, Library of congress cataloging-in-publication data, 6th edition, 1



Syed_mirza@hotmail.com

Dont you see the month starts by discovery of the moon. This is Astralogy that the bible is against. Please I am waiting for a refutable

Dear Backslider (you will never backslide in Jesus name)!!!
May the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who sits in heaven and directs the affairs of men on earth, BLESS YOU abundantly beyond your wildest comprehension for this article. I pray a lot of people will go through it entirely although it is long. After reading then, if possible, remember and go back to read the topic I posted on this forum before entitled[b] "Jehovah/Yahweh is NOT the same as Allah"[/b].
This is the season of truth!!!! eyes shall be opened, light has come in and darkness cannot comprehend it. Shalom

Amen !!!! I am happy I got this and I have not seen any response from Olabowale and the rest of his fellow moon worshippers.

Jehovah and Yaweh could be two deities out of the many gods that were worshipped by the pagans seeing as they emerged well before Christianity.

You point out that Islam is embedded with paganism but so is Christianity. 25th of December, Easter Sunday, 40 days of Lent, Xmas tree, eating of flesh (Host), offerings at the altar are just many of the rituals integrated into Christianity by pagans.

Nothing wrong with respecting Mother Nature. All living things rely on the Moon and Sun for survival, so what if some people just get so overjoyed with the Moon? From most of the pictures i have seen, Christianity seems to adore the Sun.

Quite from Brown-eyes: "Jehovah and Yaweh could be two deities out of the many gods that were worshipped by the pagans seeing as they emerged well before Christianity."

Well Brown-eyes, I actually spent a long time thinking of how best to respond to this statement, but eventually I believe holy spirit suggetsed I pray for you, and that's what I am doing right now. It's such a dangerous statement that you cannot fathom the depth of it.!! However, overwhelming evidences both scriptural and achaeological evidences support the synonimity of allah with the moon-god.

"Nothing wrong with respecting Mother Nature. All living things rely on the Moon and Sun for survival, so what if some people just get so overjoyed with the Moon?"

Very simple, that "getting so overjoyed with the moon" is called idolatory; (seems as if we are getting somewhere now with understanding, you are a short distance from salvation). About, all the mumbo-jumbo of Xmas, easter etc being from paganism, it is simply not so. Do not look for or claim associations that do not exist in the life of christ or christian living. It is simply not true, those mullahs are simply saying it to keep you from truth, but now you know the truth, it shall make you free.

@ Brown Eyes

You said

Brown-Eyes:


You point out that Islam is embedded with paganism but so is Christianity.

In this statement you did not dispute the fact that your "Islam is Embedded with Paganism , So is Christianity" . Infact you agreed in the greatest of Volumes that since " Christianity" does This It must be good for Islam the two must be in competition for Paganism?

In Jesus Christ worship That I know very well there is NO WORSHIP OF CHRISTMASS NO LENT IN THE BIBLE ONLY EASTER IS CELEBRATED.

Brown-Eyes:


Nothing wrong with respecting Mother Nature. All living things rely on the Moon and Sun for survival, so what if some people just get so overjoyed with the Moon? From most of the pictures i have seen, Christianity seems to adore the Sun.

My brother There is nothing wrong with mother nature I agree with you 100%. However if the moon is looked for before you Worship your Allah What do you call that? What if the moon is not seen for a whole month ? The fact is that there is no worship of Allah without the moon.

You said

Brown-Eyes:


offerings at the altar are just many of the rituals[b] integrated [/b] into Christianity by pagans.

Nothing wrong with respecting Mother Nature. All living things rely on the Moon and Sun for survival, so what if some people just get so overjoyed with the Moon? From most of the pictures i have seen, Christianity seems to adore the Sun.

You agree that some rituals are gotten their way into christian worship by "integration" you also agree with me Some people are "So Overjoyed with Moon" so if the pagan practice in " Christianity" By Integration How is the MOON watching enter into ISLAM? What was the religion of the Arabs of Mecca before Mohamed? What was there Mode of Worship ? Who or what did they Worship ? Have you any Idea of how they worshipped. So that you can know what is the difference Betwext The OLD and "NEW" religion.

LOL

Havila i appreciate your prayers thanx. Also could you try channelling your energy into helping me ascend onto the mental plane as that is where i aim to be.

Havila:

About, all the mumbo-jumbo of Xmas, easter etc being from paganism, it is simply not so. Do not look for or claim associations that do not exist in the life of christ or christian living.

I dont really understand what you mean by that. Easter and Christmas are products of paganism not that it is anything bad just reckon people should give credits where its due.


You guys still havent spoken about the Sun which is highly revered in Christianity. Before you reach to pluck out the splinter out of Islam, look at that whooping plank sticking right out of Christianity.

Backslider:


In Jesus Christ worship That I know very well there is NO WORSHIP OF CHRISTMASS NO LENT IN THE BIBLE ONLY EASTER IS CELEBRATED.

Oh by the way you are not supposed to be worshipping any other being other than your god.

Backslider:


You agree that some rituals are gotten their way into christian worship by "integration" you also agree with me Some people are "So Overjoyed with Moon" so if the pagan practice in " Christianity" By Integration How is the MOON watching enter into ISLAM? What was the religion of the Arabs of Mecca before Mohamed? What was there Mode of Worship ? Who or what did they Worship ? Have you any Idea of how they worshipped. So that you can know what is the difference Betwext The OLD and "NEW" religion.

I cannot comment so much on Islam as i have not read the Quran nor have i consulted anyone on it. However my opinion is that both religions shared a common factor. They were both contaminated with mankind's greed.

'Islam' existed well before Mohammed in a pure form so did 'Christianity' before 'Paul's teachings. Us human beings have to rediscover the way of life and get on with progression instead of following religion which tends to serve its purpose of hindering our spiritual growth.

Know Thyself!

Dear Brown-eyes:
It is not a good thing to be resistant to knowledge; while trying to engage in debate, do not make false allusions. Can you tell the whole world how or where the 'Sun' is highly reverred in Chritianity!!
Do you know what Christianity is? No you do not, judging from you statements Christianity is not a religion, a group or chruch-goers, christianity is LIFE; it is LIVING the will and purpose of God for your existence!!. Bible said the follower of Jesus were first called christians (meaning'followers of the christ) in Antioch.

"Easter and Christmas are products of paganism not that it is anything bad just reckon people should give credits where its due."

Please, Xmas, Easter are not pagan worships indoctrinated into chriatian faith; that is the false counter-allusion of those trying to discredit christianity following the exposure of the deep idolatory that is called islam. Is there any scriptural or achaeological evidence that support the statement,  NO!!!. Compare that with the abundant scriptural and achaeological evidences showing the idolatrous origin of Mecca, Kaaba, Crescent and Star, moon watching etc of Islam!!!
Thank God you do not know much about islam and the quran, It is thus still early and easier for you to get out of it now before it is too late. You do not need any higher mental plane, tai-chi, yoga and all those false eastern phylosophies, what you need is Jesus Christ, dear Brown-eyes. Get a Bible and just read the Gospel of John in the New Testamant, see the questions that will come to your mind.

@ all

I am a man that likes the Truth and I will speak the Truth The Holiday of Christmass has heresy in it though it is sleepy it has no bearing on Jesus Christ.

It is a day Used to Celebrate the Entry of Jesus Into this World. However The Date is wrong but it has no biblical backing!

With Easter it is a complete command by Christ and his followers to Remember it This is the Celebration of his death and victory over SIN.

This is the core of Jesus entry into the world to save the people from their sins! and bring them back to their Father GOD. I ask if the coin was turned and let us Examine the Quran In the fearest of mind.

Let us Expose QURAN SURAT 9, and lets have a good discussion. Lets us look at the rights of The Islamic Woman. Lets us Look at Muhamed Sleeping (having Sex) With a 9 years Old. NO ONE HAS DEFENDED THIS CAN YOU HAVE SEX WITH A NINE YEAR OLD ?

Where in the Quran does it say Mohammed slept with a 9 year old girl? Copy and paste the verse. Not the English verse but the Arabic verse so i can take it to someone who reads and understands Arabic to translate it for me.

Y'all need to look at your mistranslated bibles before you reap havoc on other people's holy books.


By the way how did Christians come by their name? Did 'Jesus' give you that name? I have not seen where he was supposed to have 'commanded' his followers to assume that name.

Please look at the origins of Easter and Christmas then tell me why on earth Christians participate in the rituals.

As so-called followers of Christ, you sure do hate a lot on others. Stop picking fights with other religions and concentrate on maximising your potential or else you could find yourself living this life over and over again. Dont you want to move on to a higher plane?

Did your preacher man not tell you to not to judge lest you be judged?

he did so at the last supper.

I am doing what I am doing not because I want to judge you or make you a Christian Far from it ! Look you dont need to be a christian to have common sense.

In most of the arguements I have seen that The moslems feel just as the Oposite of White is Black so is the Oposite of Islam is Christianity this is not so.

Lets us look objectively I am no preacher at all I am only Apologising.


You sounded offended at some of what I put to you but I dont blame any moslem at all it is Islam I hate and I have the right to not because I am from a different religious inclination but because I am not happy at the way Islam is make people Insane.


From what you are saying you dont BELEIVE IN THE HADITH. which one do you belive in please let me have the name.

Islam along with Christianity has been contaminated. Islam was not meant to be a religion, it was meant to be a way of life. Men corrupted it and added on their own versions and opinions probably as Hadiths. 'Jesus' never found modern day Christianity, Paul did and it is due to this it became a religion as he allowed it to be contaminated by the Romans. All i am saying is that ppl should get out of religion and look at the fundamentals and live by it.

I dont follow any particular religion.

@brownEyes

It is like you have said that yes Christianity is false and that Islam came to finish off the Work Christianity Started.

Look I want you to read the Quran and Hadith and then get back to me dont do what you are doing it is not fine.

If you are not a Muslim there is no need then. because you have not the quran I cannot make a Good Conversation.

@BackSlider

Good Conversation = Arguments?

@Backslider: Your statement about Allah being the moon god that the Muslims worship lacks credibility.

Did you ever read about the miracle that the Almighty Allah performed through the hands of Muhammad (AS), when he split the moon into two for the whole makkans to see? The other settlement in Arabia saw it as well. This was before his Hijra to Madina. The Makkans were needing to see miracles,as if it was not enough for them that a man from amongst them was Inviting them to guidance of Islam.

They asked him(AS), in this particular night when the moon was full. they said, split the moon and we will believe you. He Muhammad (AS), supplicated to his Lord, then with his hands together and fingers pointed, the pronounce Allah's glory, thus Bismillahir rRahmanir rRahiim, He pointed to the two mountains which are next but far from each other. The people and Muhammad (AS), saw the moon splitting into two, each part moving away from each other and settled on the top of the mountains as if these are now their new stations.

Muhammad (AS), also make the two parts of the Moon come back together by bringing his hans together after everyone in the community had witnessed this phenomenon, while praising God!

It was this Muhammad (AS) after the conquer of Makka, that he used his staff in his hand to push down all, without a single idol left standing or in the visinity of Ka'aba. Have you ever been inside the Four walls of the structure known as Ka'aba in makka? It is empty, there nothing inside it!

Simple observation on the moon, moon god; You you know that when the Apollo 11 landed on the moon, they discovered that there is a fault running through it? Abount the moon god syndrome that you have, Tell me if Muhammad (AS) and the Muslims are worshipping the moon god, would muhammad have thrown/pushed the moon god in Ka'aba to the ground. The moon god as you had claimed was broken up during that fall. There is no account that the muslims had ever tried to recover any idol or statue anywhere.

If a person is truly a muslim, you will not see that person attaching any undue importance to any thing, indeed, even Muhammad. All our focus is on God of Adam and all mankind and things. This God is call Allah. He also has other attributes. Non of them is father!

I can see that you are so perturb and giddle concern about Islam. Seeing that we only give all glory to Allah. Unlike the way of the christians, giving glory to Jesus, seeing that Jesus was just a man like every man. He ate, used the bathroom to rid all waste in his body, after digestions. According to the Bible, he was so hungry that he as confused about the inability of the date tree to provide food since it was not the season for fruiting. He cursed the tree! if this was the act of a sane man, you will move to another tree which is in the season for fruiting.

May God forgive me. I did not say this about Jesus, the Prophet of Allah. I only give you something to think about. It is as if to say to a child that is still a week old, to drive a car or other matured fully grown persons activities. It just does not make any sense.

Backslider, havila and co., please go and reflect and use your sense. Unfortunately, common sense is not a given for academic prowess.

How can a sane person worship another person, seeing that he can not creat anything, unless God allows him/her to do it as a sign to support God's grand intention. I will never worship anything that this earth had been able to support. I will only worship the One that support this earth and all other existants.

Dear Uncle Olabowale,
I and a lot of others have been trying for some time to be respectiful in our responses to you and some of your posts, since I realized you are probably in your middle age. However, I have come to realize that not only do you NOT deserve respect, you are probably becoming senile. You are an embodiment of a grown-up man who is supposed to be able to articulate his words and thoughts but rather you are talking like an adult whose reasoning has been taken away from him.
You are free to attempt to argue against achaeological evidences showing the origin of the deity you worship; you are free to believe how muhammed 'divided' the moon into 2  (which you falsely claim is supported by finding of apollo 11 mission on the moon) , as false, stupid, intrepid and docile your statements are; BUT at least you should attempt to reciprocate the respect we seem to have for you and your age in your statements. Obviously and with all due respect, you are NOT a man of faith or wisdom, but an embodiment of the intolerance and pervertion that prevails in your islamic religion; no wonder you do not see anything wrong in a 50+ year old man, marrying and sleeping with girls as little as 9 to 12.
Talking about Jesus, you said and I quote:
[b]"According to the Bible, he was so hungry that he as confused about the inability of the date tree to provide food since it was not the season for fruiting. He cursed the tree! if this was the act of a sane man, you will move to another tree which is in the season for fruiting. May God forgive me. I did not say this about Jesus, the Prophet of Allah. I only give you something to think about."[/b]

I don't mind whatever you write about Jesus, mine is to defend and debunk your assertion, not kill you or behead you for it (sound familiar?). However, don't you see that you actually sound more insane by your contradictory statements that I highligted in bold. In psychiatry what you've displayed is called 'flight of ideas' when you start making contradictory statements in the same sentence and probably believe what you said.

Then you launched an intolerant and direct attack on Backslider and myself, your perceived opponents:
Well, I totally agree with you that common sense is not given for academic prowess, you probably lack both i.e academic prowess and common sense, otherwise you should'nt have taken the discussion personal and going by your literary or linguistic skills. 'Egbon', (brother or uncle), that is what we are calling you, please let us find you in that position of 'egbon'; respond to issues and don't get personal. If you've run out of ideas, why not go to your local mosque or leave the stage for younger peoples who have points and ready to discuss. Seriously, I do not like responding to you like this, but I have noticed how you attempt to bully and intimidate those who oppose you on this forum just like your prophet thought you. Well, the mistake you made was involving me, I stand up to bullies, extremists, pervets. So therefore I say; In your face, sucker!!

olabowale:

It was this Muhammad (AS) after the conquer of Makka, that he used his staff in his hand to push down all, without a single idol left standing or in the visinity of Ka'aba. Have you ever been inside the Four walls of the structure known as Ka'aba in makka? It is empty, there nothing inside it!

Of course if someone where manually removing the idols one everyday since the 7th century, the ka'aba would have been empty by now!

@Havila: Thank God. We are grown and I do need you to respect me. It does not face me. InshaAllah, when you see me, if Allah wills it, there is no sign of Middle age in me. I learnt how to read Qur'an in arabic, without any man teaching me.
To your Bible, so I wrote date instead of Fig. The message is clear. About the moon, all you have to do is to go to any Islamic store in London, you will find a book about it. The one I read has a title "The day the Moon was split."
My question to you is that you do not know that the astronauts discovered that the moon surface had a fault runnung through it? Again, common sense has nothing to do with academics. Havila, I do not have to bully anybody. We are not in front of each other. i do not intimedate you, neither will you intimedate me. I will not result to vile language with you. Not because I can't, but i will not.
Like they say, when stricks another Iron, there will be sound. I have no need of it. I am representing Islam. I am not representing Olabowale here.

Are you representing a brotherhood or your Allah olabowale? Ola know that islam and other religion including the catholic and other christian forms of religion are nonsense before Our AlMighty God whose name is Jehovah. God doesnt need your allegiance to a brotherhood or any religion.That doesnt grant you salvation. You are still in your sins until you know Jesus Christ our Lord and Personal Saviour. God needs a willing heart and ready for his use, not any form of arabic or mystic bullshit. When will you know this and how will you ever learn? or are you going to know this when you see Jesus coming with Glory among the clouds? because that time is near and for your knowledge all things happening in this world today were alreay spoken of by Jesus 2000 years ago.Then why don't you fear him?
Jesus loves you unconditionally.

Olabowale below is the Resume of Jesus.It may do you good if you read it and read up the references in the Bible (since you are a Scholar and i know muslims read the bible too as a reference too).




THE RESUME OF JESUS CHRIST

Address: Ephesians 1:20.
Phone: Romans 10:13
Website: The Bible
(keywords: Christ,Lord,Savior, and Jesus)


Hello, My Name is Jesus The Christ. Many call me Lord! I’ve sent you my resume because I’m seeking the top management position in your heart. Please consider my accomplishments as set forth in my resume.

Qualifications

I founded the earth and established the heavens (see Proverbs 3:19)
I formed man from the dust of the ground (see Genesis 2:7)
I breathed into man the breath of life (see Genesis 2:7)
I redeemed man from the curse of the law (see Galatians 3:13)
The blessing of the Abrahamic Convenant come upon your life through me (see Galatians 3:14)

Occupational Background

I’ve only had one employer (see Luke 2:49)
I’ve never been tardy,absent,disobedient,slothful, or disrespectful.
My employer has nothing but rare reviews for me (see Matthew 3:15-17)

Skills/Work Experiences

Some of my skills and work experiences include:
Empowering the poor to be poor no more, healing the brokenhearted, setting the captives free, healing the sick, restoring sight to the blind and setting at liberty them that that are bruised (see Luke 4:18)
I am a Wonderful Counselor (see Isaiah 9:6)
People who listen to me shall dwell safely and shall not fear evil (see Proverbs 1:33)
Most importantly, I have authority, ability and power to cleanse you of your sins (see 1 John 1:7-9)

Educational Background

I encompass the entire length and breadth of knowledge, wisdom and understanding (see Proverbs 2:6)
In me are hid all of the treasures of wisdom and knowledge (see Colossians 2:3)
My Word is so powerful it has been described as being a lamp unto your feet and light unto your path (see Psalms 119:105)
I can even tell you all of the secrets of your heart (see Psalms 44:21)

Major Accomplishments

I was an active participant in the greatest summit meeting of all time (see Genesis 1:26)
I laid down my life so that you may live (see 2 Corinthians 5:15)
I defeated the arch enemy of God and mankind and made a show of him openly (see Colossians 2:15)
I’ve miracoulously fed the poor, healed the sick, and raised the dead!

There are many more major accomplishments, too many to mention here. You can read them on my website, which is located at www.wordofGod.bible. You don’t need an internet connection or computer to access ny website.

References

Believers worldwide will testify to my divine healing, salvation, deliverance, miracles, restoration, fulfilled prophecies, and spiritual guidance.


Summary

Now you’ve read my resume, I’m confident that I’m the only candidate uniquely qualified to fill this vital position in your heart. In summation, I will properly direct your path (see Proverbs 3:5-6) and lead you into everlasting life (see John 6:47) and I love you unconditionally.
When can I start? Time is of the essence (see Hebrews 3:15).

Islam and Christianity hold life giving forces in high esteem. Nothing wrong with that at all. Its when these life giving forces overshadows the essence of the Creators that things get out of hand and become idol worship.

When mankind know who they are and life purpose, then all these silly squabbles over lesser gods will come to an end.

applause applause @ backslider,
Very few christians know the truth about christmas and some other things which the catholic church brought in during their romance with paganism especially in Rome. I must applaud your courage and time in giving an expose on Islam, one of the most celebrated forms of paganism. God bless you but please change your user name from backslider.

Browneyes,
I am really pitying for your soul. I will be blunt with you, you either accept JESUS christ or perish. (That is non-negotiable)

@Kikanuka: I had my share of the Bible as a reference, in High School. Now, I do not read it for any refence. Maybe because Muhammad  (AS) frowned against it, when Umar ibn Khattab (RA) read the Torah. Muhammad (AS) called all his companions and told them in essence that if Musa (AS) were to be alive and heard about Muhammad,  Musa will have no choice to follow him! If this applied to Musa, it must apply to Isa (AS).

Muhammad(AS), in his journey to the heavens where he received the commandment for salah and the last part of Suratul baqarah, met Isa and his cousin Yahya on the second heaven and musa on the sixth heaven.

Muhammad stated that his Lord has honored him; In place of taurah, the Lord revealed a part of the Qur'an to Muhammad (AS). Yet, in place of Sabuur, another part of Qur'an, then in place of Injiil, another part of Qur'an. Further, He revealed another part of Qur'an to elevate Muhammad (AS).



Now, it is me who is inviting you to guidance. I am inviting you to Paradise, you are inviting me to Hellfire!


@Browneyes:Please do not listen to the liars, less they make your heart incline toward the way of the evil doers; the ones who join partner with God.

olabowale:

@Kikanuka: I had my share of the Bible as a reference, in High School. Now, I do not read it for any refence. Maybe because Muhammad (AS) frowned against it, when Umar ibn Khattab (RA) read the Torah. Muhammad (AS) called all his companions and told them in essence that if Musa (AS) were to be alive and heard about Muhammad, Musa will have no choice to follow him! If this applied to Musa, it must apply to Isa (AS).

Muhammad(AS), in his journey to the heavens where he received the commandment for salah and the last part of Suratul baqarah, met Isa and his cousin Yahya on the second heaven and musa on the sixth heaven.

Muhammad stated that his Lord has honored him; In place of taurah, the Lord revealed a part of the Qur'an to Muhammad (AS). Yet, in place of Sabuur, another part of Qur'an, then in place of Injiil, another part of Qur'an. Further, He revealed another part of Qur'an to elevate Muhammad (AS).



Now, it is me who is inviting you to guidance. I am inviting you to Paradise, you are inviting me to Hellfire!


@Browneyes:Please do not listen to the liars, less they make your heart incline toward the way of the evil doers; the ones who join partner with God.

I just keep rolling in laughter when i read such gibberish from those who should be battling with grey hairs!

Mohammed went to the heavens, me too i can even claim to have been in heaven before. Did Mohammed perchance describe that heaven he went to in detail? He met Issa, praps he met a nice looking demon! Yayha, is that John the baptist?

Moses would have no choice but to follow a murderer, plunderer, thief and pedophile? Moses the meekest man that ever lived?
Give me a break from all this foaming in the mouth!

@Dear Olabowale,

I have been learning everyday from you and I know That you have been learning from Me too. I want you to know That I know exactly how you feel about your religion Islam.

I in my posting I have made it Categorically care That The worship of the moon god Codedly By muslim is what I think we must check.

You may say alot of things about me or the Bible. But that does not move the arguement away. Do you have any Idea I was very Pro Islamic in one time of my Life.

I have been into many things and You must know That the we have to Check our history. If Islam Cannot defend it self by it books I cannot respect it.

I am pointing it out to you that you need to give me the History of The people before Islam.

Muhamed Father's name is Abdullah. You have this names are borne by so many other people. You know the meaning of Abdullah and I ask what Deity was refered to.

You are a Yoruba Like me if i call someone Ogunjide( The god of Iron has Awoken). Arasanmi ( Thunder has paid me) and you know that the names were given to the glory of the gods.


please just clear this Issue for me.

@olabowale

About the moon There is alot of Fault here in the Earth world infact faults are Normal occurrence. There Is however no moral result in this act if it really took place.

The word magic is for entertainment it has no morality in it is Canal and for self agrandisement. I dont Care That be it Moslem or Christian if your practice religion or religious books does not have Morality then there is no need calling it Holy.

@Backslider: Are you saying that the miracle of splitting the moon, as it was through Muhammad (AS), is then considered to be magic, not a miracle? Are you familiar with the amount of Miracles the lord of the world performed through Muhammad? Before is birth, after his birth before the beginning of revelation, during his prophethood and after his death? Are you familiar that supernatural occurences, still happens among the muslims, even up to this day? And that miracles, by Allah's permission will happen in the future, still, till the last generation of muslims to be alive?

I will want us to set a ground rule for our discussions: That we research anything we write to support our argument and stick to a topic and discuss it for at least three entries; From the issue of Aisha (RA), being an under age. Are you refering to her as under age in this time or the time of Muhammad's Makka? Will you, again tell me about the age that she died, whose caliphate era she died in and how long she was a widow before she died. What you will find is theage that she was when the beloved of the Most merciful died. Then you deduct from that age, the number of years that she was married to Muhammad. What will be left is her true age when she got married to the prophet (AS).

We should then discuss ALLah, next. Your claim that He is  amoon god. maybe you want to say that He is the God of the moon which He created> Just like He is the God of Sun, Angels, erath, heavens and all things, including mankind. Under this topic, I will like you to tell us how many things do Allah swear by in the Qur'an? Does He not swear by the time itself and others?

We should move to the topic of the miracles yhrough the hands of Muhammad (AS), that are performed by Allah. IS it not true that you will read in the Qur'an that Allah said that when Muhammad (AS) threw the sand into the eyes of the Makkans ain the battle of Badr, He, Allah said that it was Him that threw it not Muhammad(AS)? The Biggest Miracle itself is the Qur'an. Do you know that wolf spoke to a Jewish shepard about the presence of Muhammad (AS) in Madina and that Jew later became a Muslim. Do you know that Jews joined in the battles, companions of Muhammad (AS), knowing about himfrom their book. Do you know why there were so many Jews in Madina before Muhammad arrival?

Will you be sincere. First do a thorough research before you embenk on any writing. Please, do not pander to the individuals who want to feel good about unbaseless rethorics. If you abandoned Islam, for whatever reason, please go beck and have a thorough repentance. God is the Most Merciful, Most Forgiven, All Encompassing.

You know the attributes of Allah. Do you give the same to the Moon. Have read about the moon in the Qur'an? You think Allah is moon god or is He the Lord of the moon?


I will also be interested in your mariam issue. Have you read Surah Abasa? You think Muhammad (AS) who devulge that sural and others to the community of the Muslims, immediately it was revealed will lie about Mariam's sisterhood to Haruun? You should read about the chapter about the women who argued.  You should read the Qur'an, again and again. Afterall, you and any of us, none can claimed that there has never been a period of trial or a time if given the situation, one would want to change. Even though I never truly left islam but i had abandoned it, somehow in my past. I am asking God the Almighty Allah to forgive me and then all Muslims, both males and females.

MY BROTHER OLABOWALE,

PLEASE HELP GIVE ME HIS SURA OR HADITH QUOTATION YOU ARE NOT DOING ME ANY FAVOURS AT ALL PLEASE QOUTE THE QURAN FOR ME AND THEN ARGUE.

THERE ARE ONLINE QURAN PLEASE YOU CAN QUOTE FROM THEM AND I WILL CHECK OK. THE ONLY REPRESENTATIVE OF YOUR ALLAH IS THE AL QURANI AND THE HADITH. LET US HAVE A GOOD ARGUEMENT.

ANYWAY QUOTE THE QURAN I HAVE EXTENSIVELY DONE SO ON THIS POSTINGS. WHEN YOU OR SOME SAID THAT THERE IS NO WHERE IN THE QURAN/HADITH STONING IS ACCEPTED I QOUTED IT.

PLEASE QUOTE FOR ME AND I WILL READ. THERE IS FREE QURAN ONLINE PEOPLE CAN READ THEMSELVES. MY DESIRE IS NOT TO MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN MY AIM IS TO MAKE YOU AND OTHERS SEE THE QURAN AND THE HADITH IN THE TRUE LIGHT IT IS.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp

Click on that link to read about the islamic religion.

Dear brother backslider,

We meet here again.

Please in all honesty, I want you to quote any verse from the Glorious that says Muslims worship moon.

Better still, let me have your evidence and we move from there.

Maa Salam

@babs

may be you can help Mr Olabowale on this topic. Well I am waiting.

[b]@Dear Olabowale,

I have been learning everyday from you and I know That you have been learning from Me too. I want you to know That I know exactly how you feel about your religion Islam.

I in my posting I have made it Categorically care That The worship of the moon god Codedly By muslim is what I think we must check.

You may say alot of things about me or the Bible. But that does not move the arguement away. Do you have any Idea I was very Pro Islamic in one time of my Life.

I have been into many things and You must know That the we have to Check our history. If Islam Cannot defend it self by it books I cannot respect it.

I am pointing it out to you that you need to give me the History of The people before Islam.

Muhamed Father's name is Abdullah. You have this names are borne by so many other people. You know the meaning of Abdullah and I ask what Deity was refered to.

You are a Yoruba Like me if i call someone Ogunjide( The god of Iron has Awoken). Arasanmi ( Thunder has paid me) and you know that the names were given to the glory of the gods.


please just clear this Issue for me.

@olabowale

About the moon There is alot of Fault here in the Earth world infact faults are Normal occurrence. There Is however no moral result in this act if it really took place.

The word magic is for entertainment it has no morality in it is Canal and for self agrandisement. I don't Care That be it Moslem or Christian if your practice religion or religious books does not have Morality then there is no need calling it Holy.[/b]