Every now and then, I will hear the reference to "newbie" as a reason why a website looks a certain way. I have heard it on here so many times that I am forced to post this and ask: What makes one a newbie or a veteran/experienced? Is it number of sites developed? years of experience? clients served? wealth of knowledge? Number of companies worked at? What is it?

I have my answer and am willing to agree to disagree but it would be nice to get your opinions on this.

Contribute please.

Uhmmm , i guess its experience that really matters ma!
Practice makes someone perfect !
Its not that simple to be a pro or to be called a pro even if someone is wealthy in the Knowledge aspect .
experinces and challeges really matters !

for now i am not a pro yet coz i havent got challenging jobs to task my PRO headed JOB you see what am talking about ma?
i will say more later when i hear comments from rest buddies!

The total number of pan-cakes collected from mama puts

lol

- nitation

I think i am a newbie 'cos i have done less than 10 sites directly - i usually get to write/modify scripts for designers most of the time.

imagine ! when someone like DHTML baba calls himself a newbiee, Then , who am I ? Pls, can someone tell me here ?

segsalerty:

imagine ! when someone like DHTML baba calls himself a newbiee, Then , who am I ? Pls, can someone tell me here ?

We are both newbies i think. . .newbie to full-time development (i am only good at writing codes). . .writing codes and complete
development are 2 different things. . .

please , is this Post meant to decieve?
I beg , MUmmy Yawatide , come and help ooo !
its DHTML ooooo !

@Segsalerty

If DHTML says he's a newbie, I think what you should do is to give him that benefit. He definately understands from his stand-point that he hasn't attained the stage you 're showering on him.

MY VIEW

- nitation

we are all learners, and we will keep learning new things.

if i say i am a HTML pro, whatabout PHP, ASP,ASP.NET,CFM, C & C++, Delphi, JAVA, Python, MYSQL,MSSQL,ORACLE etc.
we just cant know all

Uhmm , thats true , @webdezzi but , for what you know as in the one you called your self pro on in particular ! are you a newbiee of HTML ? lets leave the rest !

I don't think one has to know all the web dev languages known to man to be called an experienced web developer. That's like saying that in those kung fu movies of old, one person knows all the styles. Typically, they all know one main style and one "hidden" one as backup. Just My Humble Opinion.

Okay back to Read Only Mode. I will definitely chime in but for now, I will keep on listening.

Who is a "NEWBIE"?

Who is a "VETERAN"?

Definitions and explanations please. I've not been to school for some years now so I've forgotten what I tend to know

@omni, am sure programming is whats affecting you

recently, someone corrected me on using "else" when i shud be saying "or else". (same thing happens when you dont speak english for say, a year. You start shooting!)

same thing happens when you go deep into a new language, you start losing on the old one.

@webdezzi
Just take it easy on me here Just as if you read my mind before replying. I think this happens to others as well. Just like asking someone o spell "and" for you .

It's because you guys are drinking too much red bull and eating too much at mr. biggs, chicken capitol, etc

back to the post at hand:
IMHO, an experienced web developer is one who has worked on a variety of websites (as in different genres) for at least a period of 5 years and in that time frame, has also had the opportunity to work with different technologies and frameworks in the process and can look at a problem and come up with an efficient solution usually right away. This definition also implies that one could have 100 years experience yet still not know anything - I have seen this in action, trust me

Note the use of "and" in my definition. Again, you don't have to know them all but exposure them all helps. I for one have never (and hope to never, but I digress ) used dot net but if a job opportunity knocks and I need to know it, I will study it, use it to spice up my resume/cv (even if I never use it again).

Again, just my humble opinion for which I am willing to agree to disagree. Now back to Read Only Mode

Very explicit. That is precisely what i am saying. I have been working in the software development / intranet application development. I am still very new at website development. Because of my programming background, i am able to adapt fairly easily to website development.
But i have not worked long enough on website development to call myself an "Experienced Web Developer". I know i can code very well
in lots of web languages, but that is not all it takes to be an experienced web developer. . .it goes beyond writing codes. . .that is what
segsalert is getting wrong.
So based on that, i am not close to being the best web developer around here, if i am very lucky, maybe i will make top 20.

Uhmmm, but , its you old people that says " Its not how LONG but how WELL " !
i will keep my mouth shut !

segsa,

Yes, you can't go by how long only. It has to be a combo of many things. Maybe i said what you just posted in a recent post. Perhaps it was within the context of that post. Sorry for the confusion. Again, yes, it goes beyond even how long or how well.

who should i listen to now ? mummy ? you taking me for a kid . right ? its a game plan between you and DHTML , right ? who do i belive now ?

WHat do you mean by COMBO again ?

wow,  hummm my first post reply since this year anyway it just simple, for some years now i can say have been working on interface design maybe for web or advertising,branding or software as you all knows that software  requires design sometimes,  well i can't tell myself am a pro or something but to yourself you would know if you are a  newbie or not or permit me to say if you making head ways


People will have to tell you yourself if you are newbie or veteran as baby yawa said, so thats it o.

segsa,

combo is short form for "combination". So basically, you will have to know a combination of things.

Who to follow? I say neither of us. You should never take anything anyone says (no matter how credible) unless you are able to independently verify what they say as the truth. Having been in the game for a while though, I think I can speak based on my experiences.

Hopefully I hvnt confused you even further

@segsa, there is no game plan anywhere. . .we are all being factual here. . .

A newbie giving an excuse as to why a site looks a certain way is rubbish. This is especially if he knows how the site should appear but chooses this way just the way our politicians blame everything on Global Economic Meltdown like say na today nigeria start to get problem. You don't need to have ALL the know-how but what matters is using the little knowledge you have at your best disposal so people don't need to bombard different theories on you when you tow multiple lines. What is Google for sef?

Ehm, i dont think newbie is an excuse for site looking like rubbish. I usually compare whatever i design with similar sites existing, look at them side by side before i even submit it to the client, just to be sure i am not doing rubbish. . .
And another thing again is that, i never let anything i do to make my head swell. . .no matter how much effort i spent on it. . .i will alwayz do a proper
review before putting it up online too.

For instance, layout is done mainly with html and css mainly - so even if you cannot write javascript/php, that is not an excuse for your site to be
showing differently in different browsers. . .and not an excuse for not aligning properly and all that. . .
which now leads to the question of how long does it take to learn how to use html and css??

dhtml,

I think ur last post is the very essence of what separates a newbie from a vet. A newbie is expected to put up crap (though I am in no way suggesting he should do such for a paying client) whereas a vet isn't.

As for learning curve, it depends on the individual. It took me at least 3 sites to really get CSS layout. HTML? twas baptism by fire.

Okay, back to Read Only Mode

Fact is, i will never release crap for my client. . .even if the client is paying =N=1,000 NGN. . .i will rather not do the job. . .than shame myself publicly. . .

Uhmmm , am Listening and Gaining!

Good for you. . .now that i have said my mind. . .i think i should go to read-only mode too. . .

@segsalerty believe me. u shld not be calling yawatide mummy.
For my namesake, u're cheapening urself too much.
I started like you, on NLAND bt back then it was fun, with smartsoft, the afam battles, my2cents,
the guy who wrote in blue and a lot of wonderful guys. it was fun till i realised i was going nowhere.
Thanks to my2cents, i backed out, went to work, especially after seeing fantastic works from guys that were
not on NLAND.
You'll just help the pple u call pros get the job and be spending ur browsing money wasting time.
Except, u pretend to be a pro, no one will give u the opportunity.
I remember, my first job years back- it was form design using PHP. I had no idea bt said i cld do it.
I then went on to read and master PHP.
So, namesake, act like a pro.

NB: did i make sense at all. if nt its d global crisis o

@webguru
Uhmm , You make alot of Sense sir ooooo
BUT I KNOW WHAT AM DOING !

I had similar experience with pc guru, back to my2cents era too, i stepped out for about 2 long years. . .that time, i no get am for mouth. . .