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Muslims: Can You Clear These? - Islam for Muslims (5) - Nairaland

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Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Demmzy15(m): 3:30pm On Jul 24, 2015
Scholar8200:
Okay. But then, you will agree with me that most ordinances eg Circumcision (Abraham), Passover (Israelites and Moses) etc commenced by an explicit Divine command. Why is this different?
The running between safa and marwah is also a divine ordinance from God in memory for the sacrifice of Hagar to her son:

Verily! As-Safa and Al-Marwah (two mountains in Makkah) are of the Symbols of Allah. So it is not a sin on him who perform Hajj or 'Umrah (pilgrimage) of the House (the Ka'bah at Makkah) to perform the going (Tawaf) between them (As-Safa and Al-Marwah). And whoever does good voluntarily, then verily, Allah is All-Recogniser, All-Knower. Qur’an 2:158

As you see the Quran said it's to be performed, so I don't need the bible to confirm it for me.

Digression
self flagellation, Israel pilgrimage, birth and death of Christ celebrations are not acclaimed as acts/rituals of worship but embellishments by man which Bible christians (eg the early church) did not observe. Observance of these practices does not increase piousness or spirituality neither does non-observance.
Safar and Marwah was observed by early Muslims with the Quran and hadith as proves just as how you'll present the bible has a prove for the passover and circumcision. So why the criticism? By the way, i just gave the issue of self flagellation as an example for easy understanding.

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Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Scholar8200(m): 3:35pm On Jul 24, 2015
Demmzy15:

The running between safa and marwah is also a divine ordinance from God in memory for the sacrifice of Hagar to her son:

Verily! As-Safa and Al-Marwah (two mountains in Makkah) are of the Symbols of Allah. So it is not a sin on him who perform Hajj or 'Umrah (pilgrimage) of the House (the Ka'bah at Makkah) to perform the going (Tawaf) between them (As-Safa and Al-Marwah). And whoever does good voluntarily, then verily, Allah is All-Recogniser, All-Knower. Qur’an 2:158

As you see the Quran said it's to be performed, so I don't need the bible to confirm it for me.


Safar and Marwah were observed by early Muslims with the Quran and hadith with proves just as how you'll present the bible has a prove for me. So why the criticism?
No criticism! Like you agreed before now, the practise started with Hagar who was not Divinely commanded to do what she did like Abraham and Moses were commanded as regards circumcision and passover respectively. That is what I am trying to clarify. Moreover, the quote states that:

And down the line, generations practised the ritual, but the[size=14pt] value of the origin and referring it to the true GOD was lost[/size], hence they replaced the same and other fabrications in dedication to their idols. If you ask the then arab pagans about how they came about their worship, they will tell you they met it from their fathers. Allah as they knew from Ibrahim (as) is referring to GOD, but because the generation had relegated to idol worship and they heard the name from their fathers, they made a statue.
This practice was first observed by a pious person,Hajar the mother of Ismael(AS) and wife of Ibrahim(AS).
Suggesting that it was an observance by a pious person not just a mother's action. In fact, this part greatly suggests that Hagar acted on a command which we both agree is not correct. The highlighted part further accentuates my perception especially as it clearly shows Abraham had no part in the practise. Can you clarify? (I realise that you didnt write/ quote this but I believe you or any other muslim on NL may be able to shed more light).
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Demmzy15(m): 3:40pm On Jul 24, 2015
Scholar8200:
No criticism! Like you agreed before now, the practise started with Hagar who was not Divinely commanded to do what she did like Abraham and Moses were commanded as regards circumcision and passover respectively. That is what I am trying to clarify.
It doesn't matter whether it was divinely commanded to Hagar, Hagar did it and God asked Muslims to do it as a commemoration of sacrifice by Hagar. Not that she was bowing to some idol, but running between two mountains looking for water.

Just like in Christian pilgrimage, many activities are done in which have no divinely proves. Safa and Marwah was legislated to the Muslims.

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Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Scholar8200(m): 3:44pm On Jul 24, 2015
Demmzy15:

It doesn't matter whether it was divinely commanded to Hagar, Hagar did it and God asked Muslims to do it as a commemoration of sacrifice by Hagar. Not that she was bowing to some idol, but running between two mountains looking for water.

Just like in Christian pilgrimage, many activities are done in which have no divinely proves. Safa and Marwah was legislated to the Muslims.
It's alright.
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Demmzy15(m): 3:49pm On Jul 24, 2015
Scholar8200:
It's alright.
Respect bro.

1 Like

Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by truthman2012(m): 4:04pm On Jul 24, 2015
Demmzy15:

It doesn't matter whether it was divinely commanded to Hagar, Hagar did it and God asked Muslims to do it as a commemoration of sacrifice by Hagar. Not that she was bowing to some idol, but running between two mountains looking for water.

Just like in Christian pilgrimage, many activities are done in which have no divinely proves. Safa and Marwah was legislated to the Muslims.

False!

After avoiding to answer vital questions that prove islam as paganism, I have these for you as well, hope you will not avoid them as you did for the earlier ones.

Why should allah command muslims to be doing it? Was it he who told Hagar to be running on Safa and Marwah looking for water where there was none?

How did mere running looking for water and finding none become the SYMBOL of Allah, moreso it wasn't done by his command?

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Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by dolphinheart(m): 4:22pm On Jul 24, 2015
bashbabe2:


It's not everything they have answers to. They are not scholars who spend years studying the quran and hadiths. So if they can't answer pls understand why

Ok,I agree, but ill keep on asking untill someone who can answer comes to read the thread. Hope that is cool with you .
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by malvisguy212: 4:34pm On Jul 24, 2015
Demmzy15:

It doesn't matter whether it was divinely commanded to Hagar, Hagar did it and God asked Muslims to do it as a commemoration of sacrifice by Hagar. Not that she was bowing to some idol, but running between two mountains looking for water.

Just like in Christian pilgrimage, many activities are done in which have no divinely proves. Safa and Marwah was legislated to the Muslims.
lies, the hadith say and I quote:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60,
Number 23:
... “We used to consider
(i.e. going around) them a custom
of the Pre-Islamic period of
Ignorance, SO WHEN ISLAM CAME, we
gave up going around them..

They have been performing safa between marwa and tawaf long BEFORE islam came,the people know ,this ritual belongs to the pagan, so they are confused , here is muhammed answer:

Then Allah revealed, ‘Verily, Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at
Mecca) ARE AMONG THE SYMBOL OF ALLAH . So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the Umra to
ambulate (Tawaf) between them.’” ( Surah 2:158) [End of Quote]


Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-
Safa and Al-Marwah are among the
indications of Allah. It is therefore no
sin for him who is on pilgrimage to
the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to
go around them ( as the pagan
custom is).” (Pickthall)

The only explanation you need to do is " how is this very same ritual which the pagan do become a symbol of Allah ?
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by bashbabe2: 6:43pm On Jul 24, 2015
dolphinheart:


Ok,I agree, but ill keep on asking untill someone who can answer comes to read the thread. Hope that is cool with you .

You are funny let's see the question
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Demmzy15(m): 7:40pm On Jul 24, 2015
truthman2012:
[s]

False!

After avoiding to answer vital questions that prove islam as paganism, I have these for you as well, hope you will not avoid them as you did for the earlier ones.

Why should allah command muslims to be doing it? Was it he who told Hagar to be running on Safa and Marwah looking for water where there was none?

How did mere running looking for water and finding none become the SYMBOL of Allah, moreso it wasn't done by his command?][/s]
malvisguy212:
[s]lies, the hadith say and I quote:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60,
Number 23:
... “We used to consider
(i.e. going around) them a custom
of the Pre-Islamic period of
Ignorance, SO WHEN ISLAM CAME, we
gave up going around them..
They have been performing safa between marwa and tawaf long BEFORE islam came,the people know ,this ritual belongs to the pagan, so they are confused , here is muhammed answer:
Then Allah revealed, ‘Verily, Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at
Mecca) ARE AMONG THE SYMBOL OF ALLAH . So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the Umra to
ambulate (Tawaf) between them.’” ( Surah 2:158) [End of Quote]
Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-
Safa and Al-Marwah are among the
indications of Allah. It is therefore no
sin for him who is on pilgrimage to
the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to
go around them ( as the pagan
custom is).” (Pickthall)
The only explanation you need to do is " how is this very same ritual which the pagan do become a symbol of Allah ?[/s]
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by dolphinheart(m): 8:38pm On Jul 24, 2015
bashbabe2:
You are funny let's see the question
Are you saying I should post the questions to you to see it?
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by truthman2012(m): 8:41pm On Jul 24, 2015
Demmzy15

You had better dropped islam for Jesus as you have found out that islam is paganism based the questions no muslims could answer. Readers must have noticed that by now. You are inexcusable before God as the TRUTH has been made clear to you.

Don't remain deceived.

Thank you.
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Demmzy15(m): 9:04pm On Jul 24, 2015
truthman2012:


[s]You had better dropped islam for Jesus as you have found out that islam is paganism based the questions no muslims could answer. Readers must have noticed that by now. You are inexcusable before God as the TRUTH has been made clear to you.

Don't remain deceived.

Thank you.[/s]

K grandpa grin grin grin grin
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by parisbookaddict(f): 9:28am On Jul 25, 2015
Rilwayne001:


All these lackadaisical talkings of yours uhn sad ..Can't you just respect one for what he is? Why are you like this?

Are u joking.. u are the al taqiyyah using muslim who defends peadophiles and sex slavery.. no i cant respect u with such evil views and practices which is condoned by islam...
■"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by dolphinheart(m): 3:06pm On Jul 27, 2015
dolphinheart:
What does islam mean when it says something is a "symbol of allah" ?
When did it become a symbol?was it a symbol when the before hagar ran accross it seven times?
Why is it a symbol?

On ishmeals age issue
According to islam and their religious books , What was ishmaels age or age range as at the time he left with his mother?

Why did hagar leave with her son?

Who was the son abraham wanted to sacrifice, Isaac or Ishmael. ?
If its Ishmael, was he still a baby at that time?

On the cresent moon issue.
Does islam condemn the use of that symbol to represent islam? Is the use of that symbol Islamic?

I want or prefer a sincere , non abusive person to answer my questions.

Lastly , pls I need further explanation on how pagans misplaced/missed/changed/forgot the God they where serving with that ritual but did not actually misplace/miss/change/forget the process of that ritual.

Can anyone answer my questions now?
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by truthman2012(m): 4:16pm On Jul 27, 2015
dolphinheart:


Can anyone answer my questions now?

I doubt if any of them will attempt them. They run away from such questions, pretending they have answered them before in another thread. Lie! To give a link to the thread, they cannot.
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by dolphinheart(m): 2:30pm On Jul 28, 2015
No Muslim yet to answer my questions?
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by truthman2012(m): 7:36pm On Jul 28, 2015
dolphinheart:
No Muslim yet to answer my questions?

It has been long you asked the questions, can you repeat them so that new readers will be able to see without searching?
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by mustymatic(m): 4:01pm On Jul 29, 2015
parisbookaddict:


Are u joking.. u are the al taqiyyah using muslim who defends peadophiles and sex slavery.. no i cant respect u with such evil views and practices which is condoned by islam...
■"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29
This your translation grin
Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure;....
You should learn Arabic too. Ur research will be easier cool
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Teekrayne(m): 5:18pm On Aug 17, 2015
jcross19:
I love this discovery and is going to open a mind of those who want the truth to reason very well. Islamic clerics please we need your attention!!!!!!!!!
Kudos to you bro.
............. We are here! We are just trying to follow the teachings of (Proverb 26:4) that says we shouldn't answer a fool, so that we don't look like a fool as well....... And another one says we should answer a fool for a fool to know that he/she is a fool....... What baffles me most is that some people do not know and they don't know that they don't know.... You think we are that jobless? Please do us a favour! Do sort out the contradictions in the bible and call on us if you are ready to objectively debate..... Then and until then we'll shed more light on your "self-created" verse of the Qur'an. .... Peace be upon you all.
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Teekrayne(m): 5:24pm On Aug 17, 2015
truthman2012:


I doubt if any of them will attempt them. They run away from such questions, pretending they have answered them before in another thread. Lie! To give a link to the thread, they cannot.
........ Do you think you just made some sense?....... What's the question and let's hear..... Is everyone as jobless as you are Sleeping on Nairaland?
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Teekrayne(m): 5:28pm On Aug 17, 2015
malvisguy212:
lies, the hadith say and I quote:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60,
Number 23:
... “We used to consider
(i.e. going around) them a custom
of the Pre-Islamic period of
Ignorance, SO WHEN ISLAM CAME, we
gave up going around them..

They have been performing safa between marwa and tawaf long BEFORE islam came,the people know ,this ritual belongs to the pagan, so they are confused , here is muhammed answer:

Then Allah revealed, ‘Verily, Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at
Mecca) ARE AMONG THE SYMBOL OF ALLAH . So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the Umra to
ambulate (Tawaf) between them.’” ( Surah 2:158) [End of Quote]


Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-
Safa and Al-Marwah are among the
indications of Allah. It is therefore no
sin for him who is on pilgrimage to
the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to
go around them ( as the pagan
custom is).” (Pickthall)

The only explanation you need to do is " how is this very same ritual which the pagan do become a symbol of Allah ?
........ If you need clarification, let's know. You mustn't call someone a liar before proving your point......
Re: Muslims: Can You Clear These? by Origin(f): 12:35am On Feb 18, 2017
I laugh Na Una go ask questions Na Una go answer am. Are you serious seeking knowledge.?


The first person to run from Safar and Marwa was Hajar, Abraham's wife in search of water. These became part of the rites of pilgrimage. By the time Islam came the idol worshippers did it but for worshipping their idols. God reminded the Muslims that those are his creations and that they could go ahead and perform it ( all actions are judged by intention). If you do it for God ..

The idol worshippers gave their biggest idol the name/title. of God, just like some cultures still do today. The same way Christians say Jesus (a man ) is God. Or give Jesus God's attributes. The idol worshippers were wrong and Muslims established it back for God's worship and not for man-made gods.

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