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Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) - Politics - Nairaland

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Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by RentedReality(m): 11:34am On Jul 23, 2015
I pride myself by being the most politically neutral person on Nairaland.
You can trust that my opinions here are unbiased and will always be objective.

We recently achieved a peaceful transition and a very first where a ruling party suddenly found itself in opposition and the other way round for the opposing party. The likely fallout is propaganda, lies, smear campaigns and idle rants from people with displaced interests (PDI).

And there lies the problem.

All I read is criticism and almost non of which is constructive. Threads and counter-threads. Which brings me to wonder if people are actually paid for this as I can't imagine using my precious time to power the research needed to counter an opposing logic (My g/friend also demands attention).

This brings me back to the intent of this thread. I have been following with interest the arguments between pro-Buharists and pro-Jonathans and I will say the most interesting to date has been "Barcanista vs Musiwax". I read facts and saw how good education and a sound mind can turn one into a productive member of the society.

Atlas, I was to be let down.

I stand with Barcanista on this one: the President was in error for that comment drawing parallels between his government and Obamas. It was false as proven and marks his excellency down by a point in my opinion. The truth is rot or no rot, you shake the faith of your voters when your decision making appears prolonged, weak and indecisive.

As for Musiwax, no disrespect but please stop joining words with people above your intellectual capacity.

Reason? below is your counter thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/2469572/buharis-article-buhari-right-2

And below is one of your sources:

http://www.theonion.com/article/ray-lahood-resigns-following-mysterious-disappeara-31065

"Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood announced his resignation from the Obama Administration earlier this morning following his alleged involvement in the recent disappearance of U.S. Route 13. “Given his ongoing role in the investigation regarding last week’s sudden disappearance of this road, Mr. LaHood believes it is best that he step down from his position as Transport Secretary,”

How can a road disappear?

And how can you quote from a comic news parody website in an argument with adults? Everyone knows The Onion news runs humorous commentaries on daily issues.

Please just stop your analysis as you might end up dumbing down your audience with such misleading write-ups and references. I believe there are better NL analysts that can support your position better, refer to them.

Thanks.
Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by chuxkyadin(m): 11:45am On Jul 23, 2015
cool
Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by Tallesty1(m): 11:50am On Jul 23, 2015
"What kind of this is this"?
Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by Degis(m): 11:56am On Jul 23, 2015
I thought I was the only one with this opinion too. It is obvious that the APC Crew are shallow and bereft of any clue. It is obvious that we will be subject to this charade of untruths, half truths and glaring lies. They probably thought that Governance and Propaganda are siamese twins but they are in for a shocker.

1 Like

Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by iamsegsy(m): 11:58am On Jul 23, 2015
hmm.... sad effing ridiculous undecided . quoting from a comic website just to prove a point on real issue PATHETIC!! I must say.

2 Likes

Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by engineerboat(m): 12:00pm On Jul 23, 2015
Tallesty1:
"What kind of this is this"?
Read am again now, what did you get from it. Facts and fallacy are never the same. Truth and falsehood are not the same
Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by ERODEDEAST(f): 12:11pm On Jul 23, 2015
All Propaganda Parry

2 Likes

Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by Dollar101(m): 2:34pm On Jul 23, 2015
RentedReality:
I pride myself by being the most politically neutral person on Nairaland.
You can trust that my opinions here are unbiased and will always be objective.

We recently achieved a peaceful transition and a very first where a ruling party suddenly found itself in opposition and the other way round for the opposing party. The likely fallout is propaganda, lies, smear campaigns and idle rants from people with displaced interests (PDI).

And there lies the problem.

All I read is criticism and almost non of which is constructive. Threads and counter-threads. Which brings me to wonder if people are actually paid for this as I can't imagine using my precious time to power the research needed to counter an opposing logic (My g/friend also demands attention).

This brings me back to the intent of this thread. I have been following with interest the arguments between pro-Buharists and pro-Jonathans and I will say the most interesting to date has been "Barcanista vs Musiwax". I read facts and saw how good education and a sound mind can turn one into a productive member of the society.

Atlas, I was to be let down.

I stand with Barcanista on this one: the President was in error for that comment drawing parallels between his government and Obamas. It was false as proven and marks his excellency down by a point in my opinion. The truth is rot or no rot, you shake the faith of your voters when your decision making appears prolonged, weak and indecisive.

As for Musiwax, no disrespect but please stop joining words with people above your intellectual capacity.

Reason? below is your counter thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/2469572/buharis-article-buhari-right-2

And below is one of your sources:

http://www.theonion.com/article/ray-lahood-resigns-following-mysterious-disappeara-31065

"Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood announced his resignation from the Obama Administration earlier this morning following his alleged involvement in the recent disappearance of U.S. Route 13. “Given his ongoing role in the investigation regarding last week’s sudden disappearance of this road, Mr. LaHood believes it is best that he step down from his position as Transport Secretary,”

How can a road disappear?

And how can you quote from a comic news parody website in an argument with adults? Everyone knows The Onion news runs humorous commentaries on daily issues.

Please just stop your analysis as you might end up dumbing down your audience with such misleading write-ups and references. I believe there are better NL analysts that can support your position better, refer to them.

Thanks.












LOL, RENTEDREALITY PLEASE BE REAL, STOP BEING PARTISAN TELL BARCANISTA THAT I/WE ARE WAITING FOR A REPLY TO THE MESSAGE BELOW, WE ARE BECOMING VERY IMPATIENT.


musiwax:


I take an exception to your choice of words, if you have a dissenting claim back it up with proper riposte which should be devoid of insults.


Now to your claim


[i]From the onset, the discussion was on the correctness of the Buhari article which wasn't about Nominations, but rather about having a full cabinet. You asserted that he lied when he didn't, you should as a matter of honour apologise for this.

If you set out to tackle Buhari's statement based on his assertions that Obama had a full Cabinet in place, and then change in the middle of the discussion to a new position on nominees, then that's insincere on your part.

Stay on topic or start a new thread on your new position after you have apologised for you wrong accusations that Buhari lied.
Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by RentedReality(m): 3:57pm On Jul 23, 2015
Dollar101:


LOL, RENTEDREALITY PLEASE BE REAL, STOP BEING PARTISAN TELL BARCANISTA THAT I/WE ARE WAITING FOR A REPLY TO THE MESSAGE BELOW, WE ARE BECOMING VERY IMPATIENT.


musiwax:


I take an exception to your choice of words, if you have a dissenting claim back it up with proper riposte which should be devoid of insults.


Now to your claim


[i]From the onset, the discussion was on the correctness of the Buhari article which wasn't about Nominations, but rather about having a full cabinet. You asserted that he lied when he didn't, you should as a matter of honour apologise for this.

If you set out to tackle Buhari's statement based on his assertions that Obama had a full Cabinet in place, and then change in the middle of the discussion to a new position on nominees, then that's insincere on your part.

Stay on topic or start a new thread on your new position after you have apologised for you wrong accusations that Buhari lied.

Barcanista please respond to this as my thread has been derailed to accommodate the wranglings between yourself & Musiwax. His supporters demand your response.

@Dollar101, I am neutral here, I support logic and logic only. If there's a counter-claim that makes more sense, I'll go with that.
Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by Nobody: 4:15pm On Jul 23, 2015
RentedReality:


Barcanista please respond to this as my thread has been derailed to accommodate the wranglings between yourself & Musiwax. His supporters demand your response.
I would not have responded but for the respect I have for you.

If you critically look at Buhari statement, he was trying to draw parallels between himself and Obama. Firstly, there is a process to appoint a cabinet minister(or secretary).
1. The President nominates
2. The Senate Screens and approves
3. The President inaugurate the nominee.

A serious President is judged when he first makes nomination. Obama nominated ALL his cabinet Secretaries within one month of election and one month to his inauguration. All his cabinet but just two were cleared and inaugurated between January 20, 2009 and early February (Depending on the Senate). The two cabinet positions was due to the fact that the first choice nominees pulled out mid-way to clearance. Even the two cabinet nominees were nominated within a month that the original nominees pulled out

A Buhari that has neither shortlisted nor nominated a single cabinet. Obama did his own part, he can't do that of the Senate. I don't like overflogging issue but I will tell you that appointment of Cabinet is a process that starts with "nomination". This Obama did for ALL positions as the President-elect.

4 Likes

Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by Dollar101(m): 5:05pm On Jul 23, 2015
barcanista:
I would not have responded but for the respect I have for you.

If you critically look at Buhari statement, he was trying to draw parallels between himself and Obama. Firstly, there is a process to appoint a cabinet minister(or secretary).
1. The President nominates
2. The Senate Screens and approves
3. The President inaugurate the nominee.

A serious President is judged when he first makes nomination. Obama nominated ALL his cabinet Secretaries within one month of election and one month to his inauguration. All his cabinet but just two were cleared and inaugurated between January 20, 2009 and early February (Depending on the Senate). The two cabinet positions was due to the fact that the first choice nominees pulled out mid-way to clearance. Even the two cabinet nominees were nominated within a month that the original nominees pulled out

A Buhari that has neither shortlisted nor nominated a single cabinet. Obama did his own part, he can't do that of the Senate. I don't like overflogging issue but I will tell you that appointment of Cabinet is a process that starts with "nomination". This Obama did for ALL positions as the President-elect.

I have no objection to your criticism of Buhari But The thread was on PMB's article which is not on nominations but on Obama Having a full cabinet in place.
Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by BB013(m): 5:33pm On Jul 23, 2015
Dollar101:


I have no objection to your criticism of Buhari But The thread was on PMB's article which is not on nominations but on Obama Having a full cabinet in place.

Pls I will advice u save this question
Cos barcanista ll nd can't answer it objectively
Do u expect him to give an answer to something he doesn't know
Like u asked previously "on having full cAbinet nd he keeps going back to nominate that shows he is as confused nd clueless as Jonathan

1 Like

Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by musiwax: 6:35pm On Jul 24, 2015
RentedReality:
I pride myself by being the most politically neutral person on Nairaland.
You can trust that my opinions here are unbiased and will always be objective.

We recently achieved a peaceful transition and a very first where a ruling party suddenly found itself in opposition and the other way round for the opposing party. The likely fallout is propaganda, lies, smear campaigns and idle rants from people with displaced interests (PDI).

And there lies the problem.

All I read is criticism and almost non of which is constructive. Threads and counter-threads. Which brings me to wonder if people are actually paid for this as I can't imagine using my precious time to power the research needed to counter an opposing logic (My g/friend also demands attention).

This brings me back to the intent of this thread. I have been following with interest the arguments between pro-Buharists and pro-Jonathans and I will say the most interesting to date has been "Barcanista vs Musiwax". I read facts and saw how good education and a sound mind can turn one into a productive member of the society.

Atlas, I was to be let down.

I stand with Barcanista on this one: the President was in error for that comment drawing parallels between his government and Obamas. It was false as proven and marks his excellency down by a point in my opinion. The truth is rot or no rot, you shake the faith of your voters when your decision making appears prolonged, weak and indecisive.

As for Musiwax, no disrespect but please stop joining words with people above your intellectual capacity.

Reason? below is your counter thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/2469572/buharis-article-buhari-right-2

And below is one of your sources:

http://www.theonion.com/article/ray-lahood-resigns-following-mysterious-disappeara-31065

"Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood announced his resignation from the Obama Administration earlier this morning following his alleged involvement in the recent disappearance of U.S. Route 13. “Given his ongoing role in the investigation regarding last week’s sudden disappearance of this road, Mr. LaHood believes it is best that he step down from his position as Transport Secretary,”

How can a road disappear?

And how can you quote from a comic news parody website in an argument with adults? Everyone knows The Onion news runs humorous commentaries on daily issues.

Please just stop your analysis as you might end up dumbing down your audience with such misleading write-ups and references. I believe there are better NL analysts that can support your position better, refer to them.

Thanks.


@RentedReality, i have modified the post and updated the reference to the right articles. Thanks



---------------
Anyone conversant with the background politics at play during the first term, would remember the multiple scandals that rocked the tenure of Lahood as the transportation Sec. One of which was his reference on Toyotas not being safe for american drivers, while in the same vein, ignored the issues with GM cars. At the end of which Toyota was forced to pay $1.2 Billion dollars to make it go away, not because they were found guilty, in-fact in 2012, Department of Transportation engineers determined that no mechanical failure was present in the Toyota vehicles.

Source: http://thefederalist.com/2014/04/02/the-gm-scandal-is-worse-than-you-think/

Apart from this, he directed at least $9 million in federal funds to his own campaign contributors in 2010, including an award of almost $7.8 million to a single company that had donated more than $190,000 to his campaign. Furthermore, LaHood has been criticised for his close relationship to William F. Cellini, Jr., who is under indictment in the federal pay-to-play investigation that toppled Gov. Blagojevich.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/13/ray-lahood-transportation-obama_n_1009748.html

---------------

I shall be dealing with the points raised by Barcanista in the next post.
Re: Of Fools & Politics (Bar.canista Vs Musiw.ax) by musiwax: 6:35pm On Jul 24, 2015
barcanista:
I would not have responded but for the respect I have for you.

If you critically look at Buhari statement, he was trying to draw parallels between himself and Obama. Firstly, there is a process to appoint a cabinet minister(or secretary).
1. The President nominates
2. The Senate Screens and approves
3. The President inaugurate the nominee.

A serious President is judged when he first makes nomination. Obama nominated ALL his cabinet Secretaries within one month of election and one month to his inauguration. All his cabinet but just two were cleared and inaugurated between January 20, 2009 and early February (Depending on the Senate). The two cabinet positions was due to the fact that the first choice nominees pulled out mid-way to clearance. Even the two cabinet nominees were nominated within a month that the original nominees pulled out

A Buhari that has neither shortlisted nor nominated a single cabinet. Obama did his own part, he can't do that of the Senate. I don't like overflogging issue but I will tell you that appointment of Cabinet is a process that starts with "nomination". This Obama did for ALL positions as the President-elect.



@Barcanista, it seems you don't understand the message contained in the article.

Let me elaborate by stating this quote:
"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it, ignorance may deride it, malice may distort it, but there it is.
- WINSTON CHURCHILL"

The point of the article is not to shy away from the salient points as stated by PMB, while embracing the reality of the situation when its taken at face value. We need to establish an incontrovertible fact which is based on the truthfulness of the following statements:

1. Obama nominated all of his cabinet members before inauguration. - Barcanista
2. Obama did not have his full cabinet in place for several months. - Buhari

The two authors are absolutely right in their assertions, though the messages feels different ironically, they are the same. But while the first author based his argument on Nominations, the second author focuses on the completion of the process, which doesn't end at nomination.

If both authors were right, then what is the problem? This is a rhetorical question that can only be answered by looking at the statements without bias and the focus is on the dominant factors that determined the actions and/or inactions of the two (Obama's and Buhari's) administrations.

Obama inherited an office saddled with reviving the economy after the recession, fuelled by a capitalist drive for more profits (one of the main ideologies of the republican party) and a US bleeding funds by fighting wars on multiple fronts. Not only that, Obama is coming in as a part of the minority, that it took a miracle for him to win his party's nomination in a keenly contested primary.

But while it looks all gloomy for the Obama administration at the beginning, he had the backing of strong institutions built on truthfulness, merit and the never give up American spirit. He's able to employ the services of a world class team of professionals, that in fact his campaign website became the poster child for all the major political candidates. His social media was so successful that 48% of Obama's followers resided outside of the United States, and the Conservative Party in the UK hired Barack Obama's campaign manager Jim Messina.


Buhari on the other hand didn't have all these, in-fact he inherited a nation in a similar but not as bad a situation as Obama's. One thing missing is the structure and institutions. The SSS had become a tool for the intimidation of the oppositions, the security situation of the country wasn't taken serious at the onset of the insurgency, the government was plagued by multiple scandals and the Power situation wasn't improving. All these would naturally take time for the President to clear, and he has asked for time while citing the case of the Obama administration.

This is where the problem lies, it is very wrong for you (Barcanista), to assume and make deductions based on the words of the second author, without getting the context in which the statement was made. Accusing a man of lying when he didn't smirks of a deliberate act of feigning ignorance, in a bid to deceive people into support a personal vendetta against the President.

1 Like

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