abat4real37:
no, I hate it

So what do you suggest I do now

FowlYansh:
hero, than the burukutu sipping dullard

you are a lady for that matter..

Phut:

You don't see the greatness in a man who would be King?
Who rose from being a slave to achieve all that he did?
Do you think the British traders would have offered fair prices to small, subsistence farmers in the hinterland?
King Jaja by virtue of his exploits was able to level the playing field and keep more of the wealth in the hands of Nigerians (which is the exact reason why the British sought to remove him).
Going by your definition Dangote and other legit entrepreneurs in Nigeria are not hero's.
Not everyone can be rich (we do not practice Socialism). But credit has to be given to those who have foresight and who by dint of hardwork change their destiny and those of others around them

There's a difference between being great and being a hero.

Dangote is great, but how is he a hero?

By all accounts, Jaja was a great man...but no hero.

This is a man who was intimately acquainted with the horrors of slavery, but chose to perpetuate that evil institution, when he could have played a part in stopping it, by virtue of his high position.

A former slave turned slave trader is the epitome of greed, and you cannot reasonably say that he would have been interested in ensuring fair prices in a free market.

What you see in that article is a hostile takeover that happened 200 years ago.

The only moral of the story is the danger of an unregulated economy.

FowlYansh:


keep your foolish admirating to your self please.
i'm married to a soldier

hahaha still much on line then,.that's when he's finally envaquate or move him down to sambiasa forest alert me,.

imhotep:

So what do you suggest I do now

change

abat4real37:
change

Ah. .
Like APC changi?

Moral of the story is, never trust a white man

imhotep:

Ah. .
Like APC changi?

yes o coz that's the only thing that is constant

Taylor86:
long live nigeria

long live niger delta

long live rivers state

long live Opopo

long live Nyesome Wike

for naming rivers state polytechnics on behalf of JAJA

who told you Rivpoly was named after Jaja? Monkey radio. Spreading false info since 1815. Rivpoly was named after Ken saro wiwa. Get it right

@ Nihilist: just as long as you acknowledge that he was great, that's all I am interested in

Phut:
@ Nihilist: just as long as you acknowledge that he was great, that's all I am interested in

Yeah but I never argued that he wasn't great.

The post you quoted categorically stated that he wasn't a hero.

Unfortunately you had to run when confronted with the simple fact that Jaja was nothing but a greedy businessman.

Nihilist:


Yeah but I never argued that he wasn't great.

The post you quoted categorically stated that he wasn't a hero.

Unfortunately you had to run when confronted with the simple fact that Jaja was nothing but a greedy businessman.

Run where?
I am not going to engage in any useless back and forth with you. In the post I originally quoted, you took great pleasure in highlighting only the "perceived" negatives. An objective person would state the positives as well as any negatives, seeing as no one is perfect.

And as to your slave trading claims where is your proof? When did he rise to become King and when was slave trading abolished? Mind you this is a man that died in 1891. He became leader of the Ana Pepple house in 1863 and became King much later (closer to 1870)

Slavery was completely abolished by the UK in 1843 and by the U.S in 1865. Again, where is your proof that he traded slaves? The article talks about trade in Palm produce

duni04:
I stopped reading after I saw he was born in IMO. This piece is a blatant distortion of history by those South eastern fanatics that always want to ascribe all the glory in Nigeria to themselves. Jaja of opobo was an indigen of one of the delta tribes. Any attempt by our "Nigeria Jews" to selfishly distort history will be flatly resisted.

How kum dia is a Jaja Nwachukwu but dia is no other Jaja wit Niger delta tribal name in recent history? The Aros are notorious for raiding igbo hinterlands and tranfering the slaves to the coast for shipment to europe and america. Bonny royal family bought jaja, others that left d shores still made history wia they landed

Nihilist:


There's a difference between being great and being a hero.

Dangote is great, but how is he a hero?

By all accounts, Jaja was a great man...but no hero.

This is a man who was intimately acquainted with the horrors of slavery, but chose to perpetuate that evil institution, when he could have played a part in stopping it, by virtue of his high position.

A former slave turned slave trader is the epitome of greed, and you cannot reasonably say that he would have been interested in ensuring fair prices in a free market.

What you see in that article is a hostile takeover that happened 200 years ago.

The only moral of the story is the danger of an unregulated economy.

Kindly go and study up on african type slavery versus europeans /transatlantic slavery. Reading up on this article it talks about slaves earning higher recognition than non slaves in regards to merits. So calm down with this your useless "greedy businessman " statement.

You want to hold him up to standards that even today's Europe and America cannot boasts of genuine free trade. Mangoes to mangoes bro, not mangoes to oranges...

Nihilist:


There's a difference between being great and being a hero.

Dangote is great, but how is he a hero?

By all accounts, Jaja was a great man...but no hero.

This is a man who was intimately acquainted with the horrors of slavery, but chose to perpetuate that evil institution, when he could have played a part in stopping it, by virtue of his high position.

A former slave turned slave trader is the epitome of greed, and you cannot reasonably say that he would have been interested in ensuring fair prices in a free market.

What you see in that article is a hostile takeover that happened 200 years ago.

The only moral of the story is the danger of an unregulated economy.

king Jaja of Opobo was not a slave trader. That is a lie from the pit of hell.

And as for hostile takeovers, it stil happens today and is perfectly legit in the Western world that taught you about "fair trade" and "regulated economies"

Is wike igbo tooo?

Phut:


Run where?
I am not going to engage in any useless back and forth with you. In the post I originally quoted, you took great pleasure in highlighting only the "perceived" negatives. An objective person would state the positives as well as any negatives, seeing as no one is perfect. And as to your slave trading claims where is your proof? When did he rise to become King and when was slave trading abolished? Mind you this is a man that did in 1891

Mate, I did not quote you. You quoted me.

You have yet to counter my main submission that Jaja was no hero, but merely a greedy business man, instead you've been challenging me on arguments I never made.

So if you were looking to avoid a 'useless back and forth' perhaps you should have excercised restraint.

Now to answer your question about slavery. If you even read the article with any amount of conscientiousness, you would have seen the political houses consisted of both freemen and slaves. Therefore it is implied in the article that Jaja was still involved in slavery.

Furthermore, even after the British abolished slavery in their domains, Jaja and his fellow Chiefs continued to sell his fellow brethren to the Spanish and Portuguese. They even recieved compensation for the loss of the slave markets! See below.

Jaja was nothing but a cutthroat businessman who got screwed over by greed. Nothing more. Nothing less.

But further change was already taking place that would alter for ever the structure of trade in the Delta economy. Bonny’s ‘open door’ policy meant in effect that while it was thriving on the increasing sales of palm oil fuelled by the new industrial processes being developed in the United Kingdom, it chose at the same time to provide with slaves those nations which had not yet abolished the trade like France, Brazil, Portugal and the United States of America. As a result of a treaty between Spain and Britain, British warships could seize Spanish slave ships north of the equator if carrying slaves or the equipment of slavery like manacles. Under this agreement a warship of the British West Africa squadron seized four Spanish ships in Bonny waters. This was during the minority of the King of Bonny. The Regent ordered the arrest and imprisonment of the British party which was having a parley on shore with some traders and the Spanish slavers for what he saw as unwarranted challenge to the city-state’s sovereignty. When various other ships of the West Africa squadron arrived the Regent ordered the release of the prisoners. The British government eventually paid compensation to Bonny for loss of the slave trade.

GooseBaba:


Kindly go and study up on african type slavery versus europeans /transatlantic slavery. Reading up on this article it talks about slaves earning higher recognition than non slaves in regards to merits. So calm down with this your useless "greedy businessman " statement.

You want to hold him up to standards that even today's Europe and America cannot boasts of genuine free trade. Mangoes to mangoes bro, not mangoes to oranges...

No mind am. Persons wey no fit hack am in the real/business world moaning about hostile takeovers

GooseBaba:


Kindly go and study up on african type slavery versus europeans /transatlantic slavery. Reading up on this article it talks about slaves earning higher recognition than non slaves in regards to merits. So calm down with this your useless "greedy businessman " statement.

You want to hold him up to standards that even today's Europe and America cannot boasts of genuine free trade. Mangoes to mangoes bro, not mangoes to oranges...

Nothing you posted up there invalidates my simple post that Jaja was a greedy businessman and not a hero.

He was a slave who sold slaves.

He was a trader that blocked the access of other traders to the market by monopolising access to the british.

What exactly is heroic about that?

Conversely, what isn't greedy about that?

Phut:


Run where?
I am not going to engage in any useless back and forth with you. In the post I originally quoted, you took great pleasure in highlighting only the "perceived" negatives. An objective person would state the positives as well as any negatives, seeing as no one is perfect.

And as to your slave trading claims where is your proof? When did he rise to become King and when was slave trading abolished? Mind you this is a man that died in 1891. He became leader of the Ana Pepple house in 1863 and became King much later (closer to 1870)

Slavery was completely abolished by the UK in 1843 and by the U.S in 1865. Again, where is your proof that he traded slaves? The article talks about trade in Palm produce

Don't mind him, he is just eager to regurgitate his beer parlour talk...

A man that understood the importance of secular education and the destructive influence of Christianity that he sought to educate his populace is one, that one small rat calls a greedy businessman. Clearly, ignoring the era this circumstances took place.

rashygenius:
mo ti e le ka




o ti gun ju

u need pop corn

Phut:


king Jaja of Opobo was not a slave trader. That is a lie from the pit of hell.

And as for hostile takeovers, it stil happens today and is perfectly legit in the Western world that taught you about "fair trade" and "regulated economies"

Of course they still happen.

But you don't openly get kidnapped by a rival seeking to buy your business today, do you?

Listen, it seems that comprehension is your problem. The fact that capitalism was a self-serving dangerous ideology 200 years ago, does not make it any less so today.

You keep trying to argue against points that I did not make.

Read conscentiously before responding, or keep it moving.

abat4real37:
yes o coz that's the only thing that is constant

Ermmm...ok I will try

Nihilist:


Nothing you posted up there invalidates my simple post that Jaja was a greedy businessman and not a hero.

The hero that built schools to educate his populace while protecting them from destructive influence from foreign religion. Also, by him defending his personal wealth he was also protecting the common interests of the interlands. We all know what happened when the bristish empire took over and colonized us...

Look at our present reality in the 21st century. What he fought against is now what has crippled us. Destructive influence everywhere.. We're like sitting ducks.

Macroeconomics bro.... Understand the micro and the era then you will understand the macro.

GooseBaba:


The hero that built schools to educate his populace while protecting them from destructive influence from foreign religion. Also, by him defending his personal wealth he was also protecting the common interests of the interlands. We all know what happened when the bristish empire took over and colonized us...

Look at our present reality in the 21st century. What he fought against is now what has crippled us. Destructive influence everywhere.. We're like sitting ducks.

Building a school does not make you a hero. There is nothing in the article that suggests that he wasn't running the school as yet another business.

Mate, there is no reasonable argument for a monopoly. You deliberately block your fellow traders from access to the market but claim you're acting in their interest?



Are you even reading what you're writing?

The only thing Jaja fought was free trade in his dominions. Read the article again, that was the one thing he absolutely refused to cede, even after submitting Opobo as a protectorate.

Nihilist:


Mate, I did not quote you. You quoted me.

You have yet to counter my main submission that Jaja was no hero, but merely a greedy business man, instead you've been challenging me on arguments I never made.

So if you were looking to avoid a 'useless back and forth' perhaps you should have excercised restraint.

Now to answer your question about slavery. If you even read the article with any amount of conscientiousness, you would have seen the political houses consisted of both freemen and slaves. Therefore it is implied in the article that Jaja was still involved in slavery.

Furthermore, even after the British abolished slavery in their domains, Jaja and his fellow Chiefs continued to sell his fellow brethren to the Spanish and Portuguese. They even recieved compensation for the loss of the slave markets! See below.

Jaja was nothing but a cutthroat businessman who got screwed over by greed. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I quoted you. And so? What does that have to do with anything?
I quoted you and in response, you acknowledged that he was a great man. That was all I sought to hear. Did I go into any back and forth with you as to whether you should see him as a hero? No I did not. But you felt the need to tell me I was running away?
Fact of the matter is he was a great business man. Nobody can ever take that away from him. As to your subjective feelings as to whether he is a hero, I won't waste my time.

As for the Ana Pepple House owning slaves, all societies in Nigeria owned slaves, which is a far cry from the slavery practiced in the West. Some of these slaves were captives of war and such. "Slaves" by working hard, could rise to the pinnacle, which is exactly what Jaja did. By your argument, all prominent men from back then should be condemned because by virtue of their prominence, there might be some slaves under them. Heck, even regular people had war captives who were classified as slaves. To paraphrase Goosebaba, stop comparing Apples to Oranges.

Nihilist:


Building a school does not make you a hero. There is nothing in the article that suggests that he wasn't running the school as yet another business.

Mate, there is no reasonable argument for a monopoly. You deliberately block your fellow traders from access to the market but claim you're acting in their interest?



Are you even reading what you're writing?

The only thing Jaja fought was free trade in his dominions. Read the article again, that was the one thing he absolutely refused to cede, even after submitting Opobo as a protectorate.

Stop adding your own version to history...

Look at the "Era" we're discussing. For crying out loud. Foreign power forced down their offer down your throat in guise of protectorate. You ignore that part and worry about monopoly.. Really!!!!!!

Phut:

I quoted you. And so? What does that have to do with anything?
I quoted you and in response, you acknowledged that he was a great man. That was all I sought to hear. Did I go into any back and forth with you as to whether you should see him as a hero? No I did not. But you felt the need to tell me I was running away?
Fact of the matter is he was a great business man. Nobody can ever take that away from him. As to your subjective feelings as to whether he is a hero, I won't waste my time.

As for the Ana Pepple House owning slaves, all societies in Nigeria owned slaves, which is a far cry from the slavery practiced in the West. Some of these slaves were captives of war and such. "Slaves" by working hard, could rise to the pinnacle, which is exactly what Jaja did. By your argument, all prominent men from back then should be condemned because by virtue of their prominence, there might be some slaves under them. Heck, even regular people had war captives who were classified as slaves. To paraphrase Goosebaba, stop comparing Apples to Oranges.

Like I said, keep it moving.

I stated that Jaja was a businessman not a Hero.

You quoted me to argue that Jaja was a great businessman which is all well and good but I never actually disputed that.

Take your aggression and lack of comprehension elsewhere. Don't really have time for all of that.

GooseBaba:


Stop adding your own version to history...

Look at the "Era" we're discussing. For crying out loud. Foreign power forced down their offer down your throat in guise of protectorate. You ignore that part and worry about monopoly.. Really!!!!!!

Like your friend who keeps quoting me out of context, you keep missing the point.

I am firmly focused on the era. Maybe I should break it down for you so that what is already simple might become apparent.

1. Jaja forced all Palm oil farmers in the opobo region to sell their produce to him alone, leaving him free to dictate the buying price. If a farmer chose not to sell to Jaja, that farmer had no access to the British market.

2. Jaja prevented the British traders from buying from farmers, leaving him free to dictate the selling price. The only way for a British trader to access Opobo oil was through Jaja.

3. He did not resist the offer of a protectorate, but he resisted British attempts to bypass him as a middle man and deal directly with producers.

Good business, but what is heroic about that?

Nihilist:


Of course they still happen.

But you don't openly get kidnapped by a rival seeking to buy your business today, do you?

L[b]isten, it seems that comprehension is your problem. The fact that capitalism was a self-serving dangerous ideology 200 years ago, does not make it any less so today.[/b]

You keep trying to argue against points that I did not make.

Read conscentiously before responding, or keep it moving.

So capitalism is a self serving and dangerous ideology, even today? By extension, all capitalists are self serving and dangerous?
If your problem was with capitalism as a whole, you for talk as opposed to singling King Jaja out.

Nihilist:


Like I said, keep it moving.

I stated that Jaja was a businessman not a Hero.

You quoted me to argue that Jaja was a great businessman which is all well and good but I never actually disputed that.

Take your aggression and lack of comprehension elsewhere. Don't really have time for all of that.

You are a complete asshole. Talking about comprehension and the like. Try making some sense. Then and only then will people "understand" you. Doofus!

Phut:

So capitalism is a self serving and dangerous ideology, even today? By extension, all capitalists are self serving and dangerous?
If your problem was with capitalism as a whole, you for talk as opposed to singling King Jaja out.

This is why I've asked you to read conscentiously.

Go back to the very first post you quoted, and see if my position on capitalism was not explicitly stated.

It is better to read and understand, before rushing in to argue for a position that was stated 6 posts ago.