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( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation - Religion (7) - Nairaland

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by jiggaz(m): 10:45am On Aug 20, 2015
ayoku777:

Spot on bro!
Nawa o! So you mean we've spent 5 pages arguing over semantics, when we've actually being saying the same thing?
That's what "departing from the faith" means. You are saved and justified by faith in Christ; and you lose it if you depart from faith in Christ.
What you are calling "denouncing Christ", I am using the scriptural term "departing from the faith". But we mean the same thing.
You don't lose your salvation to sin or carnality. Even a carnal christian is still in Christ. That's why they are called "babes IN CHRIST" (1Cor 3v1). We only lose salvation to unbelief, to "departing from the faith".
You didn't really articulated your stand well at the beginning; that's why. Because we obviously are saying the same thing.
Shalom!
Alright.... i now understand you... At the beginning, i thought u were arguing dat the only way Salvation can be maintained is by works. I guess we misunderstood each other. Take care.
Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by jiggaz(m): 10:47am On Aug 20, 2015
sportsmaster:

ayoku777 was saying the same thing,you guys did not read and understand each others texts.
yes datz true.
Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by ABDULADINO(m): 12:12pm On Aug 20, 2015
sportsmaster:

know that salvation is a promise.
To receive a promise,you must believe it.
My emphasis is there is no condition for salvation, it has always been the work of God.We are not involved, except for receiving the "gift" by faith in Christ.

2 Likes

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 5:04pm On Aug 20, 2015
sportsmaster:

i get the point bro.

Jesus saves us completely.
But we must stick to him as our Lord and saviour.
He warned same thing in Matt24:
we must stick to him as our Lord and savior to the end.
Agreed
Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 5:09pm On Aug 20, 2015
ABDULADINO:
This is a pitiable doctrine. There is NO CONDITION for salvation. grin

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJ)

You lack discernment totally. How do I access this gift?
I can ask an amateur theologian or Peter.
Acts 2:37-40 (KJV)
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


Amateur half baked theologians be like, do what? It's a gift!
Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 5:13pm On Aug 20, 2015
ABDULADINO:
Go back and reread that scripture. God's mercy triumphed over judgement despite the challenge. God covers them with his mercy. The blood of the skin wrapped around Adam even when he deliberately rebelled was a shadow of what is to come. The Bible indicates that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. This means that no sin a believer commits can result in condemnation or loss of salvation

John 15:4-6 (KJV)
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned


1. ABIDE is an instruction, a command by God to man
2. Failure to ABIDE has consequences of (a) being pluck off, and (b) being cast into fire.

Question
1. What is ABIDE?

1 Like

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 5:14pm On Aug 20, 2015
ABDULADINO:
My emphasis is there is no condition for salvation, it has always been the work of God.We are not involved, except for receiving the "gift" by faith in Christ.
So why did Peter prescribe repentance? Or better, why was he preaching in the first place?

1 Like

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by ABDULADINO(m): 8:49pm On Aug 20, 2015
vooks:


You lack discernment totally. How do I access this gift?
I can ask an amateur theologian or Peter.
Acts 2:37-40 (KJV)
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


Amateur half baked theologians be like, do what? It's a gift!
I don't lack discernment. Your arrogance is fleshy and not a fruit of the Spirit. The same Peter was hesistant to go to the gentiles. He was shocked when the same "gift" fell on cornelius and his household without him asking what he must do.

It is typical of Jews to ask what they must do since they are legalistic. Salvation is not a legalistic exercise. It is a prompting from God's Spirit.

2 Likes

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by ABDULADINO(m): 9:00pm On Aug 20, 2015
vooks:


John 15:4-6 (KJV)
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned


1. ABIDE is an instruction, a command by God to man
2. Failure to ABIDE has consequences of (a) being pluck off, and (b) being cast into fire.

Question
1. What is ABIDE?
It is God that is at work in us both to WILL and to DO of His good pleasure. A true believer is already abiding in Christ. It is always the work of the Holy Spirit not a fleshy movement or manifestion of man WHICH IS A RELIGIOUS EXERCISE IN FUTILITY. Man has no part to play in salvation since he is fleshy. The flesh doesn't inherit God's kingdom.

2 Likes

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by ABDULADINO(m): 9:05pm On Aug 20, 2015
vooks:

So why did Peter prescribe repentance? Or better, why was he preaching in the first place?
Maybe you can ask Peter if you see him since you believe Peter has a role to play in salvation.
Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 9:36pm On Aug 20, 2015
ABDULADINO:
Maybe you can ask Peter if you see him since you believe Peter has a role to play in salvation.
It's a rhetorical question. You look dumb without trying as it were grin

He told them to do something.
Man has to respond to God's grace else he perishes
Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 9:41pm On Aug 20, 2015
ABDULADINO:
It is God that is at work in us both to WILL and to DO of His good pleasure. A true believer is already abiding in Christ. It is always the work of the Holy Spirit not a fleshy movement or manifestion of man WHICH IS A RELIGIOUS EXERCISE IN FUTILITY. Man has no part to play in salvation since he is fleshy. The flesh doesn't inherit God's kingdom.

So why was Jesus specifically asking His disciples too ABIDE seeing that is none of man's business?

And why would he go as far as telling of those who FAIL to abide? Whose fault is it then that they can't abide if it is God who causes them to abide?

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 9:47pm On Aug 20, 2015
ABDULADINO:
I don't lack discernment. Your arrogance is fleshy and not a fruit of the Spirit. The same Peter was hesistant to go to the gentiles. He was shocked when the same "gift" fell on cornelius and his household without him asking what he must do.

It is typical of Jews to ask what they must do since they are legalistic. Salvation is not a legalistic exercise. It is a prompting from God's Spirit.

Peter told them to do something. If there was NOTHING to do he would not have said it.

Repeat, faith and repentance are conditions for salvation; they are not salvation themselves. They are man's response to God's outstretched arm.

Let's ask Paul as well writing to Gentiles;

Romans 10:9-10King James Version (KJV)

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Please discard those trashy nauseating paraphernalia and meditate on scriptures for a change

1 Like

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by 5solas(m): 9:49pm On Aug 20, 2015
sportsmaster:

know that salvation is a promise.
To receive a promise,you must believe it.
The Bible says not only is our believing''given'' our suffering is also ''given''. According to Phil. 1:29, believing is a privilege.

1 Like

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 10:21pm On Aug 20, 2015
5solas:

The Bible says not only is our believing''given'' our suffering is also ''given''. According to Phil. 1:29, believing is a privilege.

God does not believe for you, He makes your belief effectual, He responds to it by granting you life eternal.

If belief is 'given', then unbelief essentially is God DENYING men salvation. Because had he 'given' them belief, they would not have perished.

God gives opportunity to all mankind to be saved, the few/many that believe/respond are saved. The rest perish for rejecting His salvation. This is the essence of John 3:16
1. God loved the world
2. He gave His son
3. WHOSOEVER believes

WHOSOEVER is not a few lucky fellas who were 'given'; God 'gave' ALL the opportunity

John 3:16-17 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

16 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world. He did not send him to judge the world guilty, but to save the world through him.

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by 5solas(m): 10:51pm On Aug 20, 2015
vooks:


God does not believe for you, He makes your belief effectual, He responds to it by granting you life eternal.

If belief is 'given', then unbelief essentially is God DENYING men salvation. Because had he 'given' them belief, they would not have perished.

God gives opportunity to all mankind to be saved, the few/many that believe/respond are saved. The rest perish for rejecting His salvation. This is the essence of John 3:16
1. God loved the world
2. He gave His son
3. WHOSOEVER believes

WHOSOEVER is not a few lucky fellas who were 'given'; God 'gave' ALL the opportunity

John 3:16-17 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

16 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world. He did not send him to judge the world guilty, but to save the world through him.
You did not even touch the verse, no, not even to cavil it. grin grin grin
The verse takes it for granted that we all know that it is ''given'' to us who believe, to believe. More than that, it says not only is it ''given'' us to believe, it is also ''given'' us to suffer for His sake.
To sum up, it is by His grace that we have believed and others haven't.
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Phil. !:29.

1 Like

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by ABDULADINO(m): 1:15am On Aug 21, 2015
vooks:

It's a rhetorical question. You look dumb without trying as it were grin

He told them to do something.
Man has to respond to God's grace else he perishes
Do you know what a sarcasm is?
Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by 5solas(m): 2:28am On Aug 21, 2015
vooks:


God does not believe for you, He makes your belief effectual, He responds to it by granting you life eternal.

If belief is 'given', then unbelief essentially is God DENYING men salvation. Because had he 'given' them belief, they would not have perished.

God gives opportunity to all mankind to be saved, the few/many that believe/respond are saved. The rest perish for rejecting His salvation. This is the essence of John 3:16
1. God loved the world
2. He gave His son
3. WHOSOEVER believes

WHOSOEVER is not a few lucky fellas who were 'given'; God 'gave' ALL the opportunity

John 3:16-17 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

16 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world. He did not send him to judge the world guilty, but to save the world through him.
grin grin grin
The Bible clearly states belief is given and here you are speculating on the consequence of it being given.


Sadly, for you, even repentance is given.
2 Tim. 2
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;


grin grin grin

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by 5solas(m): 2:45am On Aug 21, 2015
vooks:


BELIEVES is active continuous tense.


Nothing can pluck you from Jesus/Father's hand. But you are not held there against your will. You can walk away.

Think Adam in Eden. NOTHING could pluck him from Eden. Not even Satan. But the devil provoked him to rebel and walk away from all that
The belief that saves is a one time belief, or we are compelled to confess that no one is saved , except after their death.

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 4:25am On Aug 21, 2015
5solas:

The belief that saves is a one time belief, or we are compelled to confess that no one is saved , except after their death.
You are imagining a false dilemma of 2 options

There is another option; you are saved as long as you ABIDE in Jesus. If you don't you are plucked away. As long as you were abiding you were saved.

Your eternal security is conditional to your faith; you are saved by your faith and you remain saved by your faith. This is why Holy Spirit severally warns of falling away from faith such as follows;

James 5:19-20 King James Version (KJV)

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.


Note he is addressing 'any of you' meaning brothers. They depart from the truth and are saved their soul from death. How us this possible? How could brothers be at risk of death?

1 Like

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 4:27am On Aug 21, 2015
5solas:

grin grin grin
The Bible clearly states belief is given and here you are speculating on the consequence of it being given.


Sadly, for you, even repentance is given.
2 Tim. 2



grin grin grin

The question is, how is this repentance given?
And I have shown you how.

Do you believe that those who reject the gospel were DENIED this repentance?
Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 4:29am On Aug 21, 2015
ABDULADINO:
Do you know what a sarcasm is?
Read your bible, it will save you. Doctrines and philosophies of men will consign you to the lake of fire together with satan and his angels
Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 4:35am On Aug 21, 2015
5solas:

You did not even touch the verse, no, not even to cavil it. grin grin grin
The verse takes it for granted that we all know that it is ''given'' to us who believe, to believe. More than that, it says not only is it ''given'' us to believe, it is also ''given'' us to suffer for His sake.
To sum up, it is by His grace that we have believed and others haven't.
Phil. !:29.
I have told you before.
If you think you have been given to believe, then you must necessarily insist that God has denied this wonderful gift to others who He rounds up and sends to hell precisely for denying them the only thing that would save them.

Paul is addressing men who had believed and were already suffering for the gospel. And he emphasized it was a privilege.

Nowhere does that verse suggest that those not believing or not suffering had been denied that gift. Salvation is a gift as well. Nobody argues that those not saved have been denied this gift.

Please, beyond NL, think through your beliefs and their logical conclusion. Salvation comes by faith. If this faith is given by God to a few, then God deliberately condemns the bulk of His creation to hell for denying them thiss gift.

You can argue that their sins sent them to hell but even then the only thing that could save them from their sins is denied them. What are they to do?

And finally, supposing believing is a gift, Paul is clear that men can depart from this faith and make it a shipwreck. What happens of those given this gift who trash it?

BTW, are you suffering for Christ seeing it was given you? cheesy

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by spencerwilliams(m): 7:18am On Aug 21, 2015
salvation is a gift but after receiving the gift you don't sit and say,"i can relax and cross my legs since Jesus has paid it all" cos that would amount to damnation in hell.There is no true born again that would receive salvation and sit back, if at all he knows how the devil is working to populate his own kingdom.The core of the write up is this"NO SINNER CAN MAKE HEAVEN WHEN CHRIST COMES,OUR WORKS WILL BE JUDGED BE NOT DECEIVED" revelation 22:12"And behold i come quickly and my reward is with me,to GIVE to every man according as his WORK shall be.

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by spencerwilliams(m): 7:44am On Aug 21, 2015
sometimes i begin to wonder why all these arguments?with some saying you can continue in sin and still inherit the kingdom of GOD.Let true christians WATCH AND PRAY,for conscious & unconscious devil workers are everywhere.This scripture puts it clear and precise Ephesians 5:3-8"But fornication,and ALL uncleaness,or covetousness,LET IT NOT BE ONCE NAMED AMONG YOU,AS BECOMETH SAINTS,(4)neither filthiness,nor foolish talking, nor jesting,which are not convenient,but rather giving of thanks.(5)for this ye know that NO whoremonger,nor unclean person,nor covetous man,who is an idolater hath ANY INHERITANCE IN THE KINGDOM OF CHRIST AND OF GOD.(6) let no man DECEIVE you with vain words for because of THESE THINGS cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.(K.J.V) GOD bless you for reading.

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by ABDULADINO(m): 3:15pm On Aug 21, 2015
vooks:

Read your bible, it will save you. Doctrines and philosophies of men will consign you to the lake of fire together with satan and his angels
Reading a bible doesn't save.Atheists read the bible too.Jesus is the only one that saves.Guess you don't know HIM.

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 4:27pm On Aug 21, 2015
ABDULADINO:
Reading a bible doesn't save.Atheists read the bible too.Jesus is the only one that saves.Guess you don't know HIM.
I don't know him like you. Am a pagan, am an atheistic satanist. Happy now?


It's better missing it reading the bible where you have a chance of knowing the truth as opposed to reading humanist philosophies where you have zero chance of knowing God cool
Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by An2elect2(f): 4:47pm On Aug 21, 2015
What is the whole talk about faith from Ayoku 777 and others, when faith itself is given? smiley

Faith is a gift, no man can produce the faith of Christ unto salvation.

Repentance is a gift.

Discernment is a gift.

Patience and long suffering are gifts.

All are gifts of the Spirit, so which one are you ascribing to man?

1 Like

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by ABDULADINO(m): 10:57pm On Aug 21, 2015
An2elect2:
What is the whole talk about faith from Ayoku 777 and others, when faith itself is given? smiley

Faith is a gift, no man can produce the faith of Christ unto salvation.

Repentance is a gift.

Discernment is a gift.

Patience and long suffering are gifts.

All are gifts of the Spirit, so which one are you ascribing to man?

God bless you sis, it reminds me of the scripture in which Paul said i am crucufied with Christ, it is no longer i that lived but Christ that lives in me and the life i now live i live by FAITH OF the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.Salvation is all about Christ and none of man.

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by An2elect2(f): 12:17am On Aug 22, 2015
ABDULADINO:
God bless you sis, it reminds me of the scripture in which Paul said i am crucufied with Christ, it is no longer i that lived but Christ that lives in me and the life i now live i live by FAITH OF the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.Salvation is all about Christ and none of man.

Absolutely brother. And more importantly thanks for the highlighted, the scriptures cant be clearer when it describes our faith as that of the Son of God.. smiley

Indeed salvation is of the Lord! Jonah 2:9

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Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 5:02am On Aug 22, 2015
An2elect2:
What is the whole talk about faith from Ayoku 777 and others, when faith itself is given? smiley

Faith is a gift, no man can produce the faith of Christ unto salvation.

Repentance is a gift.

Discernment is a gift.

Patience and long suffering are gifts.

All are gifts of the Spirit, so which one are you ascribing to man?

If repentance is a 'gift', why did Peter preach/prescribe repentance on Pentecost?

Do we therefore conclude God responsible for all who end in hell? He DENIED them these 'gifts' which could have saved them

1 Like

Re: ( MUST READ) Four Reasons Why We Cant Lose Our Salvation by vooks: 5:04am On Aug 22, 2015
ABDULADINO:
God bless you sis, it reminds me of the scripture in which Paul said i am crucufied with Christ, it is no longer i that lived but Christ that lives in me and the life i now live i live by FAITH OF the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.Salvation is all about Christ and none of man.
If it's all about Christ, then the dozens of exhortation to holy living are misplaced as they are directed at man.

1 Corinthians 6:18King James Version (KJV)

18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

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