What Are The Old And New Covenants? - Religion - Nairaland
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| What Are The Old And New Covenants? by Bobbyaf(m): 4:33pm On Mar 19, 2009 |
I am not sure most of you will agree with me that one of the most misunderstood topics in the bible is the Old and New Covenants. Nearly most have been taught that the old covenant was the 10 commandment law, and that the new covenant contains only grace and promises, but no law. Hence it is argued that because the old covenant has been abolished, God's law has also been abolished. This teaching should naturally lead one to stop and think for awhile, if one is really concerned about the tone of such teachings, because it naturally leads one to think that the law of God was harsh, cruel, and enslaving - that the fault of the Old Covenant was with the law. I'd just like to ask who gave the law? Did a perfect God prescribe the law? Did He anticipate any unforeseen issues surrounding the covenant? Who do we blame for the apparent issues? Well, let us see. Before I proceed further though, I'd like anyone to define what exactly the Old Covenant was. This will be the basis for further discussions. I'd like for us to take a good look at what exactly defines both. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by KunleOshob(m): 4:59pm On Mar 19, 2009 |
Bobbyaf: The old covenant consisted of more than the ten commandments; there were actually over 600 laws that made up the old covenant. for instance the law of circumsion was the basis of the covenant God had with abraham and his descendants Genesis17 :9-12 and it is not even part of the ten commandments. Also i think galatians 5:13-15 should help clarify the christian position on the law. Galatians 5:13-15: 13 For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don’t use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love. 14[b] For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[/b][a] 15 But if you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out! Beware of destroying one another. the law was essentially summarised into one law being love. i.e that should be our guiding principle as christians. Or another way of looking at it is we should imbibe the spirit of the law and not necessarily the letters of it. Read up the whole of galatians 3 & 5 it would explain a lot about the christian position on the law. Genesis 17:9-12: The Mark of the Covenant 9 Then God said to Abraham, “Your responsibility is to obey the terms of the covenant. You and all your descendants have this continual responsibility. 10 This is the covenant that you and your descendants must keep: Each male among you must be circumcised. 11 You must cut off the flesh of your foreskin as a sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 From generation to generation, every male child must be circumcised on the eighth day after his birth. This applies not only to members of your family but also to the servants born in your household and the foreign-born servants whom you have purchased. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by Bobbyaf(m): 5:31pm On Mar 19, 2009 |
You still have not stated what the covenant was. What is a covenant in the first place? This is where we need to begin. There cannot be a one-sided covenant. For any covenant to materialize there has to be a binding agreement between 2 or more parties. In summary God had a plan for Israel after their deliverance. He knew they were not converted as a corporate body, yet as His custom was He desired to re-establish a covenant with the children of Israel. Follow me carefully now. THIS IS THE COVENANT as found in Exodus 19:5, 6, "5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." Now the remaining verses clearly states the body of the covenant. That was what God proposed to His people. Now what was the proposal of the people? Did Israel accept the proposal? Look at verse 8 - "And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD." See how simple that was! We do not need to complicate the scriptures. That in summary was the essence was the old covenant. This covenant was seen as a marriage between God and Israel according to Ezekiel 16:8, "8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy unclothedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.", J[b]eremiah 31:32[/b], "my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD" Most Christians often confuse the covenant with the terms of the covenant and so they take you all over Exodus and Deuteronomy showing you these words and those words. It is very simple. Now the bible describes both the book of the covenant and the tables of the covenant. What God wrote with His own fingers are the tables of the covenant. " 9 When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the LORD made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water, 11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the LORD gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant." (Deut. 9:9,11) Notice Exodus 24:7 which says, "7 And he(Moses) took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient." So we can clearly see that the terms of the covenant and the covenant itself are different, and that the tables of the covenant, and the book of the covenant are different. The tables of the covenant was written by God, while obviously the book of the covenant was written by Moses, or one of his scribes. Now the next stage involved the sealing of the covenant and its terms. This was done with blood as seen in these texts, "8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words." Exodus 24:8, "18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, " Hebrews 9:18-19 It should be noticed that the ceremonial sacrificial system was not as yet introduced, even after the new established covenant. That came some time later after Moses was instructed to build a portable sanctuary. The ceremonial laws were not apart of the marriage agreement, and so could not be seen as being apart of the covenant. It is crucial to notice this important truth. "22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you." (Jeremiah 7:22-23), So let it be absolutely clear that the Old Covenant was not based on laws of ceremonies, but rather the basis of obedience to God's 10 commandments. The very same ones that Moses received twice on the mount. The 10 commandments were the constitution of the covenant, and the civil laws were formed to help buffer the divine law. The divine law defined sin, while the civil laws amplified and served as a prescription for punishment for disobedience. Soon after God introduced the ceremonial laws that had to do with temple services in order to deal with the sin problem. There had to be a way to release the sins of the people, and a way to bring reconciliation. I will stop here for now. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by ttalks(m): 6:03pm On Mar 19, 2009 |
Bobbyaf: Putting it kinda simply, a covenant is simply an agreement. Then, the laws are the terms and conditions by which that agreement is upheld. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:45pm On Mar 19, 2009 |
Our God is a covenant keeping never failing Jehovah. He is a covenant keeping God and there is no one like Him. A covenant is an agreement, similar to a contract but in this case between a major and a minor party. It is based on the terms of covenant that has been set out in this case by God and to be agreed and kept by the minor ie man, nation etc. We have: [list] [li]The Solaric covenant (Gen.1:14-18; 8:22; Ps.89:34-37; 33:19-26);[/li] [/list] [list] [li]Edenic covenant (Gen.1:26-3:24); [/li] [/list] [list] [li]The Adamic covenant (Gen.3:14-19);[/li] [/list] [list] [li]Cainic Covenant (Gen 4:11-15);[/li] [/list] [list] [li]Noahic Covenant (Gen.8:20-9:29);[/li] [/list] [list] [li]The Abrahamic Covenant (Gen.12:1-3);[/li] [/list] [list] [li]Hagaric Covenant (Gen.16:7-14); [/li] [/list] [list] [li]The Sarahic Covenant (Gen.17:15-19; 18:9-15); [/li] [/list] [list] [li]The healing covenant (Ex.15:26; 23:25);[/li] [/list] [list] [li]The Mosaic or old Covenant also called the Old Testament (Ex.20:1-24; 2Cor.3:6-18);[/li] [/list] [list] [li]The Levitic Covenant (Num.25:10-14); [/li] [/list] [list] [li]The Davidic Covenant (2Sam.7:1-17); [/li] [/list] [list] [li]The New Covenant (Matt.26:28; 2Cor.3:6-18).[/li] [/list] The 10 commandments otherwise called the decalogue was given to Moses on Mt. Sinai, which are basically the moral law. [list] [li]The terms of this covenant are obedience, [/li] [/list] [list] [li]The parties are the nation of Israel, [/li] [/list] [list] [li]The covenant relationship is with God and [/li] [/list] [list] [li]The alter is the provision for repair.[/li] [/list] The Omniscient God knew that they would eventually break the law, so He provided an alter for sacrifice. The question to be asked is why was the Moral Law given? This has been widely misunderstood as you have rightly said. The first reason is to provide a standard of righteousness. Even though we know right and wrong through our consciences, God had to remind us of what we have silenced in our consciences through human philosophies and false religion which teaches relativism. Our love for sin can overwhelm the still small voice of the conscience. God makes the rules not man, as the evolutionists would like you to think, and these rules are given to expose and identify sin and to show God's standard. I want you to realise that it was the moral not ceremonial laws that was presented in scriptures in the New Testament to bring the knowledge of sin, such as in the case of Paul in Romans (Rom.2:21-24), James in (Jas.2:10-11) and our Lord Jesus Christ in (Luke 18:18-20). That is what is written on the hearts of all men (see Romans 2:15). The Law was also given to reveal the divine holiness of God. The gospel of the new covenant supersedes the Law because the commandments of God were fulfilled by Jesus Christ on our behalf. We have His fulfillment of the Law appropriated to us through faith. That's what the New Testament is all about. Romans 10:4 says, "For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believeth." And that changes the basis of our relationship with God, since we can't be perfect by keeping the Law, unless you want to claim that you can keep the whole Law without breaking one. This was the main reason I opened a thread on the test of whether you are a good or nice person. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=153055.0 The ordinances given, now superseded in Christ, are fascinating. We are now in a new dispensation which is different from the dispensation of the Law, but what some will call the dispensation of Grace, where we replace the outward command of the Law with the inward power of the Holy Spirit. Instead of receiving the condemning ethic of the Law, we experience the transforming dynamic of the Holy Spirit. Many don't understand the New Testament, especially the epistles, because they don't understand the problem they are resolving. Our whole challenge is to walk, not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4 says, "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by Bobbyaf(m): 6:47pm On Mar 19, 2009 |
Welcome back Ttalks. It seems you pre-empted my previous response. Its amazing how people go all over the place without first defining things. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by Bobbyaf(m): 7:19pm On Mar 19, 2009 |
@ OLAADEGBU The Law was also given to reveal the divine holiness of God. I agree. The gospel of the new covenant supersedes the Law because the commandments of God were fulfilled by Jesus Christ on our behalf. It depends on what you mean by fulfill. I have a different take on that word. It certainly doesn't mean to bring an end to something if that is what you're implying. In fact it implies quite the very opposite. It means to carry out, or to execute. If I make marriage vows to my wife and I fulfill those vows, does it mean I have put an end to those vows, or does it mean I am daily executing them?  The word fulfill means to fill to the full. So if one fulls a cup to the brim it means that the cup has fulfilled its capacity, and can do no more than is expected of it. Now, Jesus could have dome no more. He did what was necessary to reveal the true purpose of the law, and that is why He was hated by those who couldn't, or failed to see the spiritual side of the law. Remember Paul said that the law is spiritual (see Romans 7:14)We have His fulfillment of the Law appropriated to us through faith. Faith does not fulfill the law. Faith is complete trust in God, but it doesn't make void the law according to Paul. "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31 That's what the New Testament is all about. Romans 10:4 says, "For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believeth." I hope by the time I am through discussing with you the covenant topic that you will have a different view. Now concerning Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law in another sense. If you allow the law to guide you you will find Christ, because that was what the law was given to do. Now, I am not saying that the keeping of the law saves, but when a person experiences salvation he is constrained by the love of Christ to obey God's instructions. Remember it was Jesus who said, "If you love me keep my commandments" John 15:16 And that changes the basis of our relationship with God, since we can't be perfect by keeping the Law, unless you want to claim that you can keep the whole Law without breaking one. Let me ask you a question. When Jesus returns will you be saved with any un-confessed sins? Is Jesus coming back for a spotless church? How do you ", strive for the mastery, " according to Paul if you know you won't make it? You see, the basis of the New Covenant is not about removing His law from the equation of things, but to supply the power we need to do His will. He promised to place His laws in our minds and heart, so why should I worry about failure if God is making all the promises, and working in my life? Aren't you crucified with Christ my brother? Isn't Christ living in your life? As I proceed in this thread it will become clear as to the major difference between Old and New Covenants. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:00pm On Mar 19, 2009 |
I will try to summarize all that I am about to say briefly because I have to run. God's standard is holiness and perfection and whoever is to live by the Law has to make sure that he keeps them all because if you break one it is just like a ring in a chain that is broken, the whole lot falls apart. Jesus said that He has not come to abolish the moral law but to fulfil them, Jesus gave the proper interpretation of these laws (See Matt.5) where He said that our righteousness must be more than that of the Pharisees if we are to please the Father. As Christians we have higher standards than the religious Pharisees who were under the law but if we walk in the spirit we will be free from the law of sin and death because the spirit of the law of life has set us free to do the will of God. So, if you are in Christ, you do not have to fulfil what Christ has already done all you need to do is to walk in the spirit and you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Read Gal.3:1-29 for a clearer understanding. Remain blessed. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by Bobbyaf(m): 5:13am On Mar 20, 2009 |
@ OLAADEGBU I will try to summarize all that I am about to say briefly because I have to run. God's standard is holiness and perfection and whoever is to live by the Law has to make sure that he keeps them all because if you break one it is just like a ring in a chain that is broken, the whole lot falls apart. While I agree with you that God's standard is holy and perfect, the fact is we need not worry about keeping His law. God's law is kept naturally once we experience salvation. The love that comes from the relationship motivates us enough to desire to do what is right. Our focus is not to worry about keeping the law, because we cannot do it in our own strength, but as we allow Jesus to live within us His Spirit will empower us by grace. Jesus said that He has not come to abolish the moral law but to fulfil them, Jesus gave the proper interpretation of these laws (See Matt.5) where He said that our righteousness must be more than that of the Pharisees if we are to please the Father. We do not disagree on that at all, but we need to realize that grace doesn't nullify our obedience to God's requirements, and that was part of the argument put forward by Jesus. He expects us to keep His commandments as He expressed in John 15:16 As Christians we have higher standards than the religious Pharisees who were under the law but if we walk in the spirit we will be free from the law of sin and death because the spirit of the law of life has set us free to do the will of God. So, if you are in Christ, you do not have to fulfil what Christ has already done all you need to do is to walk in the spirit and you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Read Gal.31-29 for a clearer understanding. I am not quite sure what you mean by the above, but in either case let us deal with the issue of the covenant for now without going too far off the topic. Remain blessed. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by huxley(m): 9:39am On Mar 20, 2009 |
Bobbyaf: Why is it the task of humans to come up with a definition of what the old/new covenants are? Why did god leave such things in such a state that they could be easily conflated? By the way, this is what your god said, in Matt 5; 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. What does this say about the doctrine of old/new covenants? |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by KunleOshob(m): 10:05am On Mar 20, 2009 |
Bobbyaf: Sorry i only posted one side of the convenant, i didn't want the post to be too long i would repost the whole passage which reflects both parts of the convenant. Please not that although God had other convenants with the children of Israel, the original convenant was with Abraham and it was the convenant with Abraham that was fufilled in the new testament(Galatians 3:15-20) Genesis 17:1-12: Genesis 17 1WHEN ABRAM was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, I am the Almighty God; walk and live habitually before Me and be perfect (blameless, wholehearted, complete). 2And I will make My covenant (solemn pledge) between Me and you and will multiply you exceedingly. 3Then Abram fell on his face, and God said to him, 4As for Me, behold, My[b] covenant (solemn pledge) is with you, and you shall be the father of many nations.[/b] 5Nor shall your name any longer be Abram [high, exalted father]; but your name shall be Abraham [father of a multitude], for I have made you the father of many nations. 6And I will make you exceedingly fruitful and I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting, solemn pledge, to be a God to you and to your posterity after you. 8And I will give to you and to your posterity after you the land in which you are a stranger [going from place to place], all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9And God said to Abraham, As for you, you shall therefore keep[b] My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations.[/b] 10This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your posterity after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be a token or sign of the covenant (the promise or pledge ) between Me and you. 12He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male throughout your generations, whether born in [your] house or bought with [your] money from any foreigner not of your offspring. Also galatians sheds more light on the topic: Galatians 3:15-20: The Law and God’s Promise 15 Dear brothers and sisters, here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. 16 God gave the promises to Abraham and his child. And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ. 17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. 18 For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise. 19[b] Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. [/b] God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. 20 Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by cbjonstage(m): 11:48am On Mar 20, 2009 |
@ poster, i must confess that dis is an interesting topic which every individual needs to know. but where do i begin my own opinion. I KNOW THIS HAS TO DO WITH LAW OF GOD. Old testament present us where God instructed Moses to "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments." Exo. 34: 27-28 this literally rings a bell about about what God's hates (the do's and dont's). The law given to Moses has to do with morality of the pple of Israel to live in accordance to His will but instead they break and turned their back on him thats y provided another alternative living according His standard. Hebrews 10:15-17 clearly presents us a superb covenant which took God and His son Jesus Christ to bring to fulfilment after considering man's transgression to his laws that goes a long way to save him. He look for an alternative to REDEEM MAN FROM SIN [i][/i] because of love He has for his creation and therefore says: "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." In my own point of view, it means, before an evil scheme by Man be actualise , there is tendency of this two spirits giving man opinions, which he has to apply economic law: evaluate or making choice and forgone d other. these spirits are the spirit of God and that of the devil, i think what reads next in your mind will explain where i am going, GOD BLESS i have a question here to ask, which typifies d kinda lifestyle d then pple of Israel was living. WHEN WAS UR LAST TIME U WERE WITH GOD ? |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:01pm On Mar 20, 2009 |
This is the Moral Law of God, what it is and how we can appropriate it to our lives by faith today in the New Covenant. The decalogue, as it applies to us today THEN GOD spoke all these words: I am the Lord your God, Who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before or besides Me. You shall not make yourself any graven image [to worship it] or any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; You shall not bow down yourself to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me, But showing mercy and steadfast love to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments. You shall not use or repeat the name of the Lord your God in vain [that is, lightly or frivolously, in false affirmations or profanely]; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. [Earnestly] remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy (withdrawn from common employment and dedicated to God). Six days you shall labor and do all your work, But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, your daughter, your manservant, your maidservant, your domestic animals, or the sojourner within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it [set it apart for His purposes]. Regard (treat with honor, due obedience, and courtesy) your father and mother, that your days may be long in the land the Lord your God gives you. You shall not commit murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not witness falsely against your neighbor. You shall not covet your neighbor's house, your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's. (Exodus 20:1-17 Amplified Bible). The Decalogue naturally falls into 2 divisions; the 1st and 2nd tables. The first table contains the 1st to the 4th commandments while the 2nd table consists of the 5th to the 10th commandments. The 1st table teaches us about the personality of God and the true notions we should form of His divine nature. It teaches us of our duty to God who is our filial relation and to love Him with a heart-felt affection that gives no room for any rivalry. He should be the one object of our devotion and also the only object of our love. We love Him because He first loved us. The 2nd table teaches us about a complete system of ethics and moral duties which every man owes his neighbour, who is his fraternal relation. Our love for fellow men acts as a 2 dimensional key that maintains good human relationship and prevents all forms of moral decadence. This means that we will not do any ill against our fellows who we really love as ourselves (Rom.13:8-10) 5 ways that we can personally apply the laws by faith in the new testament; [list] [li]#1 The law highlights our sins, while faith shows us the way out. God's moral law brings our consciences under conviction and by faith we seek pardon, grace and salvation through Jesus Christ.[/li] [/list] [list] [li]#2 The law is established through faith in Christ's substitutionary death. When we believe in Christ we are counted as righteous through His vicarious death. We (our old man) are baptised into His death and also buried with Him that we might be dead to sin. Rom.6:1-19.[/li] [/list] [list] [li]#3 Through faith the indwelling Christ grants us the power and inward strength to live righteously and to fulfil the letter and the spirit of the law Rom 8:2-4. As we reckon ourselves dead to sin we also believe that we are alive to God since Jesus has risen from the dead Rom 8:10-14. We are therefore free to choose what God would choose for us Rom. 8:2; 5:18;6:18. [/li] [/list] [list] [li]#4 God's love in our hearts at salvation helps us to obey God willingly and not out of constraint Rom 5:5.[/li] [/list] [list] [li]#5 Through faith, the indwelling Christ writes His law on the table of our hearts as we read, meditate, confess it and pray Heb.10:16, so that we will not be forgetful of His commandments.[/li] [/list] Through Moses came the law but Jesus brought grace and truth so that we can keep His commandments which is that we should believe On the name of the Son of God and that we should love one another Matt.5:17-19;Rom.3:31;Jn.1:17;1Jn.3:23. The Limitations of the 10 commandments: [list] [li]1. A school master pointing us to Christ.[/li] [/list] [list] [li]2. It reveals our sins and leaves us at the point of conviction.[/li] [/list] [list] [li]3. It is not a means of salvation but rules for guidance to measure our conformity to God's holiness and standard.[/li] [/list] [list] [li]4. It is unalterable and remains in force today. Matt.5:17[/li] [/list] [list] [li]5. It is a hedge to keep us within the bounds of sobriety and piety.[/li] [/list] [list] [li]6. It is a reflection of what is in our consciences that tells us what is right and wrong.[/li] [/list] |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:09pm On Mar 20, 2009 |
Watch how the Law can be practically appropriated today. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by Recognise: 10:44pm On Mar 20, 2009 |
Bobbyaf: Allow me to drop in some sparklers and fan the flames to stir up this bonfire. - We are going to skirt around the deep end a bit.  Right! Here is me, putting two cents in, real quick just like OLAADEGBU, gotta run  - couldn't upload this posting last night 'cos the site was continually having a downtime, better late than never eh? i) What was God before He became a/our Father? ii) What is LAW? iii) What is the LAW? Plainly, a KING. What's more, any and/or every word that proceeds from the KING (i.e. GOD) is LAW, is the law (i.e. the KING's word is LAW) Based on PSALM 138:2's scriptural fact, we know that GOD magnifies His Word above all His name. Actually God respects His word above himself (PS: a perfect example to emulate or follow) Isaiah 55:11: The above references, on the surface, likely explains the reason for GOD’s word economy (i.e. His carefulness with uttering or word use/choice) We can notice that the King’s word is potent, very potent and so an insight to why God does not talk much, talk too much, or better still often does not talk at all. What preceded the other? The law(s) or covenant(s)? - The answer is obvious This question begs asking, coining Jesus’ “In the beginning . . . “ phrase/style, “In the beginning was there a need for a covenant?” - The answer equally obvious. In the beginning we always had the law(s) . . . Consensual laws - entered into by mutual consent void of any formal agreement between Adam and God the King. - Remember only one of the laws was prohibiting. At any rate, presently the Law and covenant are mutually inclusive; like a hand in a glove we can’t have one without the other? The Brb. Time for a KitKat, don't cha think . . . |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by Bobbyaf(m): 8:25pm On Mar 21, 2009 |
@ cbjonstage @ poster, Thanks for your response. You see my friend the problem was not with the covenant per se, and neither was the problem with the law of the covenant, or even the book of the covenant. The problem was with the people. It was the people who promised God that they would obey all he had said. Was there anything wrong with God's part of the agreement? Absolutely not! Was there anything wrong with the people's side of the agreement? Absolutely yes! No sooner than Moses had gone for the law of the covenant on the mountain, that Aaron succumbed to the impatience of the people to set up an idol. The 400 or so years that they had spent in Egypt in which they had learned its ways and pagan practices were being displayed before the face of Aaron. They in their unconverted state had failed their own agreement. The difference with the New Covenant is that it has been made on better promises. This time around the covenant is not dependent on our promises, but on the assurance given us by God the Father, and His Son Jesus Christ. Listen as Jeremiah explains: Jeremiah 31:31-33 "31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." In this covenant God is doing everything and all we need do is to be willing. We have to use the will He has given us to allow His Spirit to work in our lives. The Hebrew people used their strength to keep the law and failed, whether through ignorance or whatever reason, but today Jesus has promised us success if only we believe. That is the first step. If you read Hebrews Paul explains the problem. We see clearly that it was not possible for the people to live in accordance with God's divine law because of their condition. Paul says in Romans 8:3 the "law was weak through the flesh, " It was going to take more than human promises to keep the agreement. Apart from that there was no Holy Spirit promised to them to empower them to do good, but as you are aware all that has changed under the New Covenant. The only issue remaining now is whether or not God under the New Covenant abolished His divine law. If we fail to respond to this question honestly then our salvation is at stake. I cannot over emphasize this point. It is crucial that we persoally answer this question, and the only way to do it carefully is to search the scriptures prayerfully and diligently. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by Bobbyaf(m): 8:31pm On Mar 21, 2009 |
@ Huxley What does this say about the doctrine of old/new covenants? Tell us what you know first, before you get my response. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by huxley(m): 1:37am On Mar 22, 2009 |
Bobbyaf: What does it matter what I know? You are the one making a distinction between old and new covenant, a view which is hardly supported by the bible. I suppose you could start by first defining what a covenant is and how a people is said to be bound by a covenant. How is a covenant similar or different from a law or legal agreement? |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by Bobbyaf(m): 5:50am On Mar 22, 2009 |
What does it matter what I know? It matters to me that you get the truth about the covenant, and that is why I started this thread. You are the one making a distinction between old and new covenant, a view which is hardly supported by the bible. Yes there is a mighty distinction, but you don't have to agree with me. I suppose you could start by first defining what a covenant is and how a people is said to be bound by a covenant. I already did that. How is a covenant similar or different from a law or legal agreement? You said it. A covenant is an agreement. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:35am On Mar 24, 2009 |
Spot the New from the Old  [list] 1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any other gods before me . I'm God. Don't play me. [/list] [list] 2. Thou shalt not have any graven images Don't be makin no hood ornaments and charms out of me, or like me. [/list] [list] 3. Thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God in vain Don't be callin' me for no reason. [/list] [list] 4. Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy Y'all betta be in church on Sunday, and not just the Sundays when it's Mother's day, Easter and Christmas [/list] [list] 5. Honour thy father and thy mother Don't Diss or cuss out yo momma, and if you know who ya daddy is, don't Diss him neither. [/list] [list] 6. Thou shalt not kill Don't be goin' on no drive bys. [/list] [list] 7. Thou shalt not commit adultery Stick to ya own Boo. [/list] [list] 8. Thou shalt not steal Don't be borrow'n stuff and don't give it back. [/list] [list] 9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy brother Don't be snitchin' on the otha' man to save your behind. [/list] [list] 10. Thou shalt not covet anything that belongs to thy brother. Don't be eyein' (skeeming) yo homie's crib, ride, woman, or nuffin. [/list] |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by Bobbyaf(m): 4:32am On Mar 25, 2009 |
I wish you wouldn't trivialize the subject like that. |
| Re: What Are The Old And New Covenants? by aracsorgulamarehberi(m): 5:21pm On Feb 13, 2012 |
Arkadaslar Ben internete girmek icin internet explorer kullanmaktayim. Ancak internet explorerda birden cok sayfa actigimda firefox cokmekte. Bu tarz bir problemle karsilasan arkadaslar varsa ve bana yardimci olurlarsa cok sevinirim. saygilarimla, |
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