900warriorz:


now, i see the height of your stupidity! I said i am not a christian doexnt mean i aiint one! What i meant was ''even the righteousness of man is a filthy rag to God'' who are we? Mortal men in a sinful nature and you say you are righteous? Lolz.....you dont even know what you were preaching/mispreaching. I am a christian but i aiint fit to be called one coz being a christain meanz being ''God-like'' are you one? Judge yourself...are you even righteous? I think i that call myself a none christain iz even better than you that goes about decieveing the onez that carry the faith! Bastard oshi! Ala ye baje..oloriburuku omo, ti alaaor ba ni ki o da fun e, ala le oni je ki o dan fun e! If by mistake i can get where you reside, dont be suprised i will come and murder you! If thatz the only thing that will send me to my grave, i believe itz worth doing before you mislead God's elect...

900warriorz:
You can go ahead and quote me again ooo! All i ask, iz your number, i dont mind burning airtime...just to rain curses on you. I may not be righteous ooo....but i know i am better off than you coz you are claiming to be righteous! Believe me, your name iz nowhere near the book of life....only if you know the criteria of getting to heaven, you will fall on your kneelz and start asking for mercy! Been pleading to God for long now just to have an encounter with him but i keep falling in sin! Am not happy about such a situation...but you that claim to be in the faith, i still believe God can pardon me but cast you outta hiz presence coz you are just misleading hiz people! Of what diference are you and the prophetz of baal? Guy, watch your tongue...and i dare you to give me your home address and see what happenz to you before weekend! Will destroy you before you do that to otherz spiritual life and post your 'graphicz' on this same nairaland!
You can dare me and see...

LEGALAide:

again, I just couldn't afford enough time to read through, but I think I saw where you said I called myself righteous!
Chai!
Please show me where I can find it!

LEGALAide:
Chai!
Why do you want to send me a mail?
Taking it personally?

900warriorz:

what else do you need to see that you said that? You said i aiint a christain...meaning, you are! To be a christain, you have to be righteous! Coz christainity iz a lifestyle within God's arena...so, you said i aiint a christain(not righteous), definately, you are(righteous).....chairman, stop all these coz itz realy not funny! The word of God is for us to digest not to antagonize with what we think itz saying! The true interpretation of the scripture is only gotten throught the holyspirit and i can tell you the holy spirit never told you drinking is good! You interpreted it with your knowledge...

900warriorz:

you should have seen it that i took it personally from the onset! And i was never joking with all my wordz! You still can dare me and see what becomes of you....many towed the path but are nowhere today! Just give me your address if what you wanna continue doing iz misquoting the bible...

LEGALAide:

that's what I'm talking about.
Tired because you've got no point.
Did you even back your point with any biblical authority?
Smh.

tunde233:


Tired because no point? Nope. It was because you failed to see the reason with others
What you are holding is a POISONOUS THEOLOGY!
What other authority do you expect after quoting the Scripture?

PastorandMentor:
All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. 1 Corinthians 10:23

So the question you should ask yourself; Does it build me up or destroy me?
Does it make me want lust after the opposite sex? Does it make me abuse people and disobey traffic and governed rules of the land? When you answer that questions, judge yourself deep inside of you. Alcohol is a mocker. Be not drunk with wine but be filled with the spirit. God bless you.

jealous91:
.................

You can as well ask yourself the same question about money.Love of money can also mislead you.... MODERATION IS THE KEY

So4baba:

Sir you quoted 1 Tim 3:3,,did you check 1 Tim 3:8....check and let's discuss it

Splashy007:
BRO. Dont talk urself to Hell. U'll answer for d souls u propel to hell with bold answers.

LEGALAide:

Smh. And you failed to read verse 6, “Do not let the hair of your heads hang loose, and do not tear your clothes, lest you die..."
You won't stop being funny.
Just like the passage telling John the Baptiser not to take strong wine.
With due respect, that passage is addressing a particular set of persons my guy.
If you don't agree with me, then I guess it's a sin for you to "Let your hair hang loose" as seen in verse 6. And if you "tear your clothes" as seen in the same verse 6, you've sinned too.
You see, I understood you when you said: "I was doing dope, and local gin-alcohol, dope wrapped up in psalm 23 soaked in gin, while reading, studying Scriptures, and I thought I knew what the Scriptures were saying", brother I guess you haven't stopped.
You said the word of God cannot be argued, what are you doing right now my friend?
You expect me to read that verse you brought up (hiding the whole chapter though). Funny.
Calm your self down brother.
Go back and read the whole Leviticus 10 in it's entirety and tell me what you understand.
Bless.

GRACEGLORY:


Well... I see it's beginning to get to you.
You can drink, twist all the Scriptures you want, and drink all you want. You've made your decision. And a couple of good persons have learnt the truth too, that's the most important part of it all. People creates threads, they refuse to learn, the wise ones browsing by end up absorbing the wisdom. GOD bless their hearts.
Since you have chosen a way to moderate disobedience, that's fantastic!!!
Have a good life.

gradeA:
Am glad you quoted Luke 1:15 in your write-up. The reason John the Baptist was forbidden from taking alcohol was because he would be filled with the Holy Spirit from birth.

Now alcohol was permitted in the dispensation of old, but we are now in the dispensation of the Holy Spirit, and it is forbidden.

Once we have the new birth in Christ, and are baptised in the Holy Ghost, we get to the stage John the Baptist was at birth and what applied to him becomes applicable to us.

Guys the conclusion remains once you are born again, and filled with the Spirit of God, you have no business with alcohol, be it a sip, gulp or total consumption.

cc; LEGALAide.

GRACEGLORY:


That's cos you don't know that book was written by Solomon after he had lost the wisdom of GOD due to immoralities. So, all became vanity to him. You think God wasted His time to create vanity, and still wasting His time to restore vanity, or you think Jesus, died for vanity sake?

Image123:
For those who are too inebriated to see clearly that taking gulder,33 and alomo is not a fruit of the Spirit or a revelation of rhema, please find time to go through the well detailed study in this book.
http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html

Image123:


When are you going to get serious and read this instead?

LEGALAide:

If you think that article is so important, why not create a thread for it?
Ain't nobody got no time to make no diss on nobody.

Image123:


This is a FORUM meant for discussion. Your OP is shredded by the counter perspective provided in the link. What you ought to do is readjust your viewpoint or tell us what is wrong with the counterperspective. When you come on a forum claiming and acting in you've arrived in omniscience with the truth, you shouldn't be too shy to hear a solid counter perspective.

LEGALAide:

Solid counter perspective my foot. Funny ain't it?
I was waiting for you to say that, too bad!
You think I didn't research, going through a lot of work (online stuffs as the one you're talking about)?
My friend, no one paid you to be this funny.
I've read that stuff of yours the umpteent time.
So don't blow your roof already.
Yes you said I should tell you what's wrong with the link you provided?
I need not tell you what's wrong with the so called link you rolled out.
Something is already trending.
Now, what you have to do - assuming you're schooled in the art of debate a little bit - is to do something positive.
Destroy my own points by a positive act not by some lazy link dropping!
Like I said early on, I guarantee you didn't read what's contained in the link to the end.
If you did, you might have seen it didn't tilt the pendulum away from my side.
Remember the issue for determination is: whether the Bible says taking any quantity of alcohol is a sin, your favourite link didn't prove that.
When next you wanna debate, read your "link", bring out whatever point you think is in the link, and summarize it.
Dropping it here smacks of laziness.
In debates as this, the burden of proof lies on the one who asserts.
You asserted that the contents of the link bested my points.
You tell me how, that's your duty.
You got me ROTF when you said "shredded"!
Smh.

Image123:


i don't intend to " debate ", I've been there done that many times on this forum and don't have time for that. i simply presented it on this thread as the solid counter perspective that it is, for you the omniscient and for other readers to make an informed and balanced decision. As you claim to have read it many times, good luck to you and your conclusion. No need to subtly drive it away to another thread like you earlier did, a forum doesn't work that way. There are people who have also read the Bible several times without fruit, it takes nothing away from the truth.

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html

Image123:


i don't intend to " debate ", I've been there done that many times on this forum and don't have time for that. i simply presented it on this thread as the solid counter perspective that it is, for you the omniscient and for other readers to make an informed and balanced decision. As you claim to have read it many times, good luck to you and your conclusion. No need to subtly drive it away to another thread like you earlier did, a forum doesn't work that way. There are people who have also read the Bible several times without fruit, it takes nothing away from the truth.

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html

LEGALAide:

I'm glad you now understand me.
It's about time!

LEGALAide:

...not minding that your question is neither here nor there, I'll answer.
Cannabis even in moderation is bad for you.
Stop taking it already!

LEGALAide:

...not minding that your question is neither here nor there, I'll answer.
Cannabis even in moderation is bad for you.
Stop taking it already!

EggovinMma:
"Drink and forget your sorrow"
There's absolutely nothing wrong in taking alcohol and weed.Weed is a natural gift from the almighty God. If God doesn't want us to smoke it, he wouldn't have created it.We should learn to do things in moderation, because the bible condemns too much of everything.

As far wine, I take as much as I can carry. It doesn't move me to commit sin, so I don't see the reason why shouldn't.

khia:


How is cannabis bad for you?

LEGALAide:

do you want cannabis?

LEGALAide:
WINE: GOOD OR EVIL?

(What does the Bible teach?)

answers from the Bible



The English word "wine" comes from the Proto-Germanic "winam", an early borrowing from the Latin "vinum".

Wine is an alcoholic beverage made from fermented grapes or other fruits. Fermentation in wine making turns grape juice (or other fruits) into an alcoholic beverage. During fermentation, yeasts transform sugars present in the juice into ethanol and carbon dioxide (as a by-product). The natural chemical balance of grapes lets them ferment without the addition of sugars, acids, enzymes, water, or other nutrients. Yeast consumes the sugars in the grapes and converts them into alcohol and carbon dioxide. Different varieties of grapes and strains of yeasts produce different styles of wine. The well-known variations result from the very complex interactions between the biochemical development of the fruit, reactions involved in fermentation, terroir and subsequent appellation, along with human intervention in the overall process.
Wines made from produce besides grapes are usually named after the product from which they are produced (for example, rice wine, pomegranate wine, apple wine and elderberry wine) and are generically called fruit wine.

One of the first mentions of wine in Scripture is by Melchizedek, priest of the Most High God at Salem (Jerusalem) during the time of Abram, whose name was later changed to Abraham. Melchizedek “brought forth bread and wine”for Abram and his companions - Genesis 14:18. The Hebrew word translated wine in Genesis 14:18 is yayin. This word is used over 130 times in the Hebrew Bible to mean fermented wine, not grape juice.

Genesis 9:21 says that Noah drank too much yayin and became drunk. Lot also became drunk on this beverage - Genesis 19:30-36, and so did Nabal - 1 Samuel 25:36.
Nevertheless, God told his people to enjoy yayin at the yearly festivals - Deuteronomy 14:26. In addition to using wine as a beverage, God also commanded the Levitical priests to include in the sacrifices a portion of wine(yayin) as a drink offering - Exodus 29:40. A blessing of wine was prophesied as a heritage to the chosen people in Genesis 27:28: “May God give you heaven’s dew and earth’s richness — an abundance of grain and new wine[tirosh].”
The Hebrew word tirosh,meaning “new wine,” is used in 38 places in the Old Testament. People sometimes conclude that this word means grape juice, or fresh-pressed juice of the vine. However, Hosea 4:11 states: “Old wine [yayin] and new wine [tirosh] take away their understanding.” Grape juice could not have this effect.
These scriptures make it clear that there can be a right and a wrong use of wine.

Scripture has much to say regarding the drinking of alcohol. Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3;Deuteronomy 29:6 ; ...encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”
The Bible says that God gave wine to make men glad - Psalm 104:15.
What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness - Ephesians 5:18. The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects - Proverbs 23:29-35. Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything - 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19. Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive. Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or encourage them to sin against their conscience - 1 Corinthians 8:9-13. In light of these principles, it would be extremely difficult for any Christian to say he is drinking alcohol in excess to the glory of God - 1 Corinthians 10:31.

Jesus changed water into wine. It even seems that Jesus drank wine on occasion - John 2:1-11; Matthew 26:29.
John the Baptist did not drink wine (oinos in the Greek) or any other form of alcohol because it was prophesied that he wouldn’t (being a Nazarite) - Luke 1:15. However, Jesus Christ did drink oinos (wine) - Matthew 11:19: "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”; Luke 7:34. Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he did like most other Jews of his day. He drank wine in moderation.
In ancient times it was normally diluted with water for drinking, and was one of the principal beverages at that time — as it is today.

Jesus gave a parable involving the fermenting process of oinos in Matthew 9:17. At that time, instead of having metal or glass bottles to enclose wine, the skins of animals were used. The fermentation of the wine could burst an old skin, but it would not break a new stretchable skin.

In New Testament times, the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was often filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. The same is true in many third-world countries today. As a result, people often drank wine (or grape juice) because it was far less likely to be contaminated. In 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul was instructing Timothy to stop drinking the water (which was probably causing his stomach problems) and instead drink wine. In that day, wine was fermented (containing alcohol), but not necessarily to the degree it is today. It is incorrect to say that it was grape juice, but it is also incorrect to say that it was the same thing as the wine commonly used today.

THE QUESTION PEOPLE KEEP ASKING IS: "DID JESUS TURN WATER INTO WINE OR GRAPE JUICE"?

John chapter 2 records Jesus performing a miracle at a wedding in Cana of Galilee. The point of the account is summarized in John 2:11, "He thus revealed His glory, and His disciples put their faith in Him." Usually, though, when this passage is studied, a side issue becomes the main issue. Did Jesus transform the water into wine (fermented, alcoholic) or into grape juice (non-alcoholic)?

Throughout the passage, the Greek word translated "wine" is oinos, which was the common Greek word for normal wine, wine that was fermented/alcoholic. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is the same word for the wine the wedding feast ran out of. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is also the same word that is used in Ephesians 5:18, "...do not get drunk on wine..." Obviously, getting drunk from drinking wine requires the presence of alcohol. Everything, from the context of a wedding feast, to the usage of oinos in 1st century Greek literature (in the New Testament and outside the New Testament), argues for the wine that Jesus created to be normal, ordinary wine, containing alcohol. There is simply no solid historical, cultural, exegetical, contextual, or lexical reason to understand it to have been grape juice.

Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. Some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms.
Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.”
Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.”
Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing.
Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”
From these and other Scriptures, it is clear that alcohol itself is not inherently sinful. Rather, it is the abuse of alcohol, drunkenness and/or addiction, that is sinful - Ephesians 5:18; Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19. Therefore, it would not have been a sin for Jesus to create a drink that contained alcohol.

A second related argument is that by creating alcoholic wine, Jesus would have been promoting drunkenness, which the Bible clearly identifies as sinful. This is not a valid argument. Was Jesus promoting gluttony when He multiplied the fishes and loaves far beyond what the people needed? Of course not. Creating a substance that can be abused does not make one responsible when another person foolishly chooses to abuse it. Jesus creating alcoholic wine was in no sense encouraging drunkenness.

The belief that Jesus created alcoholic wine is definitely more in agreement with the context and the definition/usage of oinos. The primary reasons for interpreting it as grape juice, that alcohol is inherently sinful or that the creation of alcohol would have been encouraging drunkenness, are unbiblical and invalid. There is simply no good biblical reason to understand John:2 as anything other than Jesus performing an amazing miracle by turning water into real wine.

Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is drunkenness an addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from - Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 6:12.
Alcohol, consumed in small quantities, is neither harmful nor addictive. In fact, some doctors advocate drinking small amounts of red wine for its health benefits, especially for the heart. Consumption of small quantities of alcohol is a matter of Christian freedom. Drunkenness and addiction are sinful. However, due to the biblical concerns regarding alcohol and its effects, due to the easy temptation to consume alcohol in excess, and due to the possibility of causing offense and/or stumbling of others, it is often best for a Christian to abstain from drinking alcohol.

There is only one group of people who are explicitly told in the Bible to never drink wine/alcohol, and that is the Nazirites - Numbers 6:1–4. Jesus was not a Nazirite; He was a “Nazarene,” a native of the town of Nazareth - Luke 18:37. Jesus never took the Nazirite vow.

Christ’s first miracle of turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana almost certainly involved a fermented beverage. According to Jewish wedding tradition, fermented wine was always served at weddings; if Jesus had provided only grape juice, the master of the feast would have complained. Instead, he said the wine was better than what was previously served; it was apparently a “fine” wine - John 2:10–11.

The Greek word for “drunk” in John 2:10 is methuo, which means “to be drunken” or intoxicated. It is the same word used in Acts 2:15 where Peter is defending the apostles against accusations of drunkenness. The testimony of the master of the feast is that the wine Christ produced was able to intoxicate.

Of course, just because Jesus turned water into wine doesn’t prove that He drank the wine at the wedding, but it would have been normal for Him to do so. What it does prove is that Jesus doesn’t condemn drinking wine any more than He condemns eating bread. Sinful people abuse what is not inherently sinful. Bread and wine are not sinful, but gluttony and drunkenness are - Proverbs 23:2; Ephesians 5:18.


In Luke 7:33–44, Jesus said, “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!". In verse 33 Jesus is making a contrast between John the Baptist’s “drinking no wine” and His own practice. Jesus goes on to say the religious leaders accused Him (falsely) of being a drunkard. Jesus was never a drunkard, any more than He was a glutton. He lived a completely sinless life - 1 Peter 2:22; however Luke 7 strongly suggests that Jesus did indeed partake of alcoholic wine.

The Passover celebration would also have commonly included fermented wine. The Scriptures use the term “fruit of the vine” - Matthew 26:27–29; Mark 14:23–25; Luke 22:17–18. Of course, Christ participated in drinking from the Passover cup - Mark 14:23).

All Christians would agree drunkenness is sinful, and Christ Himself warns against it - Luke 12:45. However, a biblical view of wine is that it is given as something to delight in - Psalm 104:14–15. There are plenty of warnings against alcohol abuse, in texts like Proverbs 20:1, because sinful men are more likely to abuse wine than to use it in moderation. Those who try to use Jesus’ probable use of wine to excuse their drunkenness should heed the warning in Luke 12:45. Christians who want to keep a biblical view of drinking wine should either drink in moderation, never to drunkenness, or abstain totally.
The Lord be with you.

- O.S. Emejulu

CC Lalasticlala