Zodiakzax
Now get this The Holy Spirit Hasn't been fully sent to the world yet, He was with the Father [color=red] and as such one with the Father. The Spirit of God is the same as Him

Zodiakzax
You are forcing me to say something that isn't there.. No that's not God the Father , that is you assuming it's God the Father,

Zodiakzax
Likewise The Spirit of God that was within God, who wasn't yet made Manifest to the Church was and is one with God...

TATIME:
That's the watchtower's system of following Jesus to the best of their own understanding , but it seems you're opposed to that so why not present the excellent way things ought to be done by pointing to the organization that's doing it right.

Barristter07:
To address point 2

During the course of discussion on Sum and Substance , A question was posed to Zodiakzax that did Jesus know the end ? He knowing Matt 24:36 said because Jesus is human . he didn't know. So it was asked if that excuse is genuine, Why didn't Holy spirit know?

Logically if holy spirit is a person, it should have been mentioned alongside son and Father at Matthew 24:36. Banker!

But it wasn't , Explaining this Zodiakzax posted that holy spirit hasn't been revealed before that time ( His purpose of saying this is to remove it from the nobody) , but while explaining he made a serious blunder that he cannot rectify without falling into different loopholes .

He said on 7:26pm on November 30



The identify of that HIM . is not something Zodiakzax can do easily , He said that him is not Hod the Father , and later posted

Barristter07:
To address point 2

During the course of discussion on Sum and Substance , A question was posed to Zodiakzax that did Jesus know the end ? He knowing Matt 24:36 said because Jesus is human . he didn't know. So it was asked if that excuse is genuine, Why didn't Holy spirit know?

Logically if holy spirit is a person, it should have been mentioned alongside son and Father at Matthew 24:36. Banker!

But it wasn't , Explaining this Zodiakzax posted that holy spirit hasn't been revealed before that time ( His purpose of saying this is to remove it from the nobody) , but while explaining he made a serious blunder that he cannot rectify without falling into different loopholes .

He said on 7:26pm on November 30



The identify of that HIM . is not something Zodiakzax can do easily , He said that him is not Hod the Father , and later posted

Gruni1234:


Sir, I think it is not in your place to make this claim. Everyone will be biased towards what he said. It is for your readers to ascertain truth and comment as such. Zodiakzax I know will also refute this, then we go back on and on and on again. So I will look at your points and your claims and evidence presented then as a reader and a third party come out with proper analyses of the arguments. Thank you.

Hairyrapunzel:


So at the end of the day all na assumption. Thank God it is watchtower way and not bible ways. Lol


Watchtower can choose how they want to distribute their magazines yet members of other religions who choose to follow Jesus the way they understand will be slaughtered by your all loving jehovah. Lol

Barristter07:
To address point 2

During the course of discussion on Sum and Substance , A question was posed to Zodiakzax that did Jesus know the end ? He knowing Matt 24:36 said because Jesus is human . he didn't know. So it was asked if that excuse is genuine, Why didn't Holy spirit know?

Logically if holy spirit is a person, it should have been mentioned alongside son and Father at Matthew 24:36. Banker!

But it wasn't , Explaining this Zodiakzax posted that holy spirit hasn't been revealed before that time ( His purpose of saying this is to remove it from the nobody) , but while explaining he made a serious blunder that he cannot rectify without falling into different loopholes .

He said on 7:26pm on November 30



The identify of that HIM . is not something Zodiakzax can do easily , He said that him is not Hod the Father , and later posted

TATIME:
There is nothing you can get from reading comments of argumentators on social media my friend. Because each person will just continue to quote the Bible mostly out of context.
If you want to know anything about Jesus of Nazareth, i'll implore you to consider reading through the Bible paying attention to His own utterances,think over what this young man had in mind before talking and then try to figure out those OBEYING His instructions around you today.
His name has survived the most powerful enemies of good reputation in human history so Satan(the principal enemy of truth) has changed his system from "if you can't beat them, join them" to "if you can't beat them, LEAD them" So today many are fighting hard against Jesus' true followers but they thought they're doing so for Jesus.
I'll only give you one single sign. Every religion that's promoting personal interests in the minds of adherents can't be Christians because Jesus is an advocate of selflessness. Matthew 10:39,16:25,Mark 8:35,36,Luke 9:24,17:33
As for your question regarding how humans came up with the idea of the existence of God, i'll like you to ask any questions that comes into your heart and please don't hide your feelings because that's the only way you can get to the root of the sacred secret. If you believe in the power of reasoning, that will be ideal for our discussion since you don't believe in a written document like the Bible so we can make use of our brains and intellect. All are gifts from JEHOVAH but for now let's concentrate on what you think we can use to solve the riddle "our human brains". Thank you!

Gruni1234:
@brocab, advice well received, i am not there yet but in time if he is really real then it shouldn't be a problem for him. Thank you.

Gruni1234:


I'm really shocked how simple truth is denied. I will address all relevant points soon. So many twists and turns. What's bothering me is why protect an organization when clearly has some flaws in their doctrine. Are you being paid for being there? The Jehovah witnesses here have totally disappointed me and has open my eyes to see their own deception. Just to say nothing anyone says will change the truth. I can from my own reading know and ascertain that Jesus Christ is not an angel. This is just the case. I will take all points all have made and write my final thoughts on all matters discussed so far.


@brocab, advice well received, i am not there yet but in time if he is really real then it shouldn't be a problem for him. Thank you.

Barristter07:
To address point 2

During the course of discussion on Sum and Substance , A question was posed to Zodiakzax that did Jesus know the end ? He knowing Matt 24:36 said because Jesus is human . he didn't know. So it was asked if that excuse is genuine, Why didn't Holy spirit know?

Logically if holy spirit is a person, it should have been mentioned alongside son and Father at Matthew 24:36. Banker!

But it wasn't , Explaining this Zodiakzax posted that holy spirit hasn't been revealed before that time ( His purpose of saying this is to remove it from the nobody) , but while explaining he made a serious blunder that he cannot rectify without falling into different loopholes .

He said on 7:26pm on November 30



The identify of that HIM . is not something Zodiakzax can do easily , He said that him is not God the Father 3:16am , December 1



Later it includes God the Father again : contradicting himself as posted on 7:26pm on November 30 forgetting I didn't assume but he has said holyspirit is within that Him and One with God which he later said was the Father above.



I want him to reconcile the above contradiction:

" One WITH God "
" one With the Father "


" within God "

Can't be within itself

Within something means that is another entity entirely.

Captivator , OneJ , Gruni1234

Point 2

brocab:
Now if you are really listening, then listen to these JW's! They will explain to you about their beloved organisation..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reSKMKkrb2s

Gruni1234:


Well that is for us to judge Sir, every side presents evidences of their claim. Don't think nothing is happening, we can ascertain truth in all write ups. It's just evident that Jehovah Witnesses are not straight forward when answering and defending a doctrine. They employ trickery, and prey on the minds of the unlearned. For instance OneJ clearly said Jesus was not an angel, later changed his mind, he said Jesus was begotten as the messianic king but was shown to him that teaching is even against his own organizations that Jesus was begotten before he came to this world before all creation.How did he defend that, he clearly wanted to deny he meant that, but we all saw what he wrote. So Sir, you might be amazed how many people read the debate between zodiakzax and barristter even from my end, . You wouldnt understabd now but when our book is out, you will know the relevance of all this. Clearly like I said not being a biased person, barristter,OneJ are struggling to confront the truth. And it is a shame really.

OneJ:


Komot that your lie lie ,corrupted KJV version jare.....

Let's consider these examples:

1a. This house was built through me.
1 b, This house was built by me
Both sentences are not saying exactly the same thing.
(1a) tells us that the house was built with joint effort or a partnership.
(1b) is saying that one person alone built it.

https://www.biblehub.com/john/1-3.htm
"God created everything THROUGH HIM (Jesus) and nothing was created except THROUGH HIM (Jesus)" John 1:3

NLT,GNT.NASB.CSB.ESV.WNT.YLT.ISV.GWT.HCSB.WEB.NIV etc.
"And although the world was made THROUGH. HIM the world did not recognize him " John 1:10.

"DIA AUTOU meaning THROUGH HIM
is a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; THROUGH."

https://biblehub.com/proverbs/8-22.htm

"Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation..." (Aramaic Bible in English)

" The Lord (Jehovah/Yahweh) created me first of all...." NHEB
Prov 8:30
"I was a skilled craftsman at His (Yahweh's) side, His delight day by day, rejoicing always in His prescence"
" Christ is the wisdom of God" 1 cor 1:21,24.
The truth is crystal clear.

Gruni1234:


Marvelously done, Yes Thomas indeed called Him God and Lord. You and the others are doing a great job defending the trinity, even though i don't believe in the existence of a God, I rightly appreciate logicians.
Now does God exist? What makes you think so?

OneJ:


@ brocab, the SERIAL LIAR (& his crew) ;
who said. " the word Jesus Christ wasn't created and has always been"

Prov 8:22
"Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation" (Aramaic Bible in English).

"Giving thanks to the Father (Jehovah/Yahweh) who... brought us into the kingdom of the son He loves,.... the first born over ALL CREATION."
Col 1:12-15.
This truth has no duplicate.

That's the ogbunigwe that blows the trinity to pieces as well as the NL posts of the trinity crew with their twisted, LIE ,LIE interpretations of the holy scriptures

Gruni1234, your trinity friends have entered one chance.....

They will come here to vent their frustrations ,resort to name calling & insults rather than accept the truth.

TATIME:
Don't bother yourself about the Gruni guy, he is a pretender. An honest and neutral reader will only ask questions to know who truly understand what they're claiming, not praising a side and condemning the other during a debate. And according to him(Gruni1234) he is preparing to go on declaring a religious group false whereas he claims to be an atheist as in NEUTRAL!
If he truly is an atheist, what's his interest in a debate that's based on a written document(Bible) that he and other atheists believe was fabricated?
Is he now convinced that there is a God and that this same God is three in one?
Whoever wants to learn can only do so by asking thought provoking questions from preachers who comes to them in the name of the Lord, not dabbling into what his faculty strongly assert is nonsense and start passing judgement on what he himself don't even value.
Hypocrites can't fool all the people all the time. So if he wants to argue in support of Trinity, let him and his other friends go out there to preach,teach and convince people that Jesus is the same person who sent himself period!

brocab:
Now if you are really seeking which side of the fence you need to be on-then try watching this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN8lJPCNRxw

Don't ever think you are here on your own free will-you are not here on your own free will-most people would run from sights like this-I ran away from everything to do with religion-my flesh would war against His Spirit--before I came to know the Lord, but God had His hand on me-He sends in the big guns, "Christians, I didn't know why at first-but He was leading me to make my choice-and what a choice I had made, I wouldn't turn back to my old self-my old self was dead in it tracks! "so If Christ isn't real-then why are you here? I will tell you why? Christ brought you here, because He is real..

Gruni1234:


The previous video was quite shocking, does the bible really teach to disown your own who doesnt believe in What you believe in? This is strange. Honestly, I never knew the bible taught hatred, to the point of disowning your very flesh and blood. This is absurd, Christianity is absurd. I thought Jesus taught about forgiveness and Love. I thought he said what good is it to do good to others who returns same good to you. Wow, I'm beyond speech. Speechless. Many of my friends are Christians but we go out together do stuff together, eat together, drink together, work together, they never rejected me. Are they ignorant of their own religion? So what good is there then in Christianity?

Gruni1234:


Sir, I think it is not in your place to make this claim. Everyone will be biased towards what he said. It is for your readers to ascertain truth and comment as such. Did zodiakzax really say hebrews was irrelevant without any explaination? No Sir, he told you you were going out of context and that Hebrews wasnt written in same context as philipians where the comparison was made. why pick some of his words and leave the rest out? I believe is a bad way of presenting a case obviously geared towards misquoting and misapplying your opponents ideology and and Zodiakzax I know will also refute this, then we go back on and on and on again. So I will look at your points and your claims and evidence presented then as a reader and a third party come out with proper analyses of the arguments. Thank you.

TATIME:
Obviously you just want to argue but it's a pity i'm not trained to argue fruitlessly. So if you feel the watchtower aren't getting it right just PRESENT the group that's doing it right and allow me to meditate on your presentation just as i did when Jehovah's Witnesses presented their own to me.
But if you can't do that i'll just assume you are a noise maker who has nothing as in NOTHING tangible to say other than causing an uproar with agitations!

brocab:
Now if you are really seeking which side of the fence you need to be on-then try watching this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN8lJPCNRxw

Don't ever think you are here on your own free will-you are not here on your own free will-most people would run from sights like this-I ran away from everything to do with religion-my flesh would war against His Spirit--before I came to know the Lord, but God had His hand on me-He sends in the big guns, "Christians, I didn't know why at first-but He was leading me to make my choice-and what a choice I had made, I wouldn't turn back to my old self-my old self was dead in it tracks! "so If Christ isn't real-then why are you here? I will tell you why? Christ brought you here, because He is real..

Hairyrapunzel:


Coming from someone who believes his all loving jehovah will slaughter people cos they chose not to join the new York publishing company called watchtower organization.

You are still yet to give the name of the group Christians in the Bible were called. You think I have forgotten.

TATIME:

Barristter07:
Point 3

As the discussion progresses, It was stated that Jesus was begotten as Son of God , How was he begotten ?

Evidence reveal that he was reffered to as the Father's Firstborn .. How was he born ? By virtue of Creation

Psalm 90;2 was presented to zodiakzax and his crew but rather than acknowledge that Born in this verse means Create , he kept playing with words. What does the evidence reveal ?

Act 4:24 Gave evidence that Mountains are created as part of the Everything on earth. This Zodiakzax can't deny and thus proved false his assertion that To interpret born at Psalm 90:2 aa create is an assumption. Evidence Reveal its not.


Regarding Jesus been Born by virtue of Creation too ... Revelation 3 vs 14 says Jesus is the beginning OF THE CREATION Of God. Straight to the point and clear . that explains why he was First BORN.

Any objection ?

OneJ:


@ brocab, the SERIAL LIAR (& his crew) ;
who said. " the word Jesus Christ wasn't created and has always been"

Prov 8:22
"Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation" (Aramaic Bible in English).

"Giving thanks to the Father (Jehovah/Yahweh) who... brought us into the kingdom of the son He loves,.... the first born over ALL CREATION."
Col 1:12-15.
This truth has no duplicate.

That's the ogbunigwe that blows the trinity to pieces as well as the NL posts of the trinity crew with their twisted, LIE ,LIE interpretations of the holy scriptures

Gruni1234, Thomas called Jesus "my Lord, my God" yet the holy Bible confirmed that Jesus himself was created by Yahweh /Jehovah.
Therefore, in consonance with Psalm 82:6, John 10:34-36, Acts 28:6, Acts 12:22, Jesus, " the word is a god" (John 1:1, NWT, Sahidic Coptic Bible, that's the authentic rendition).

Your trinity friends have entered one chance.....

They will come here to vent their frustrations ,resort to name calling & insults rather than accept the truth.

Hairyrapunzel:


So last last the Christians in the Bible did not have another name for their group. Eya
So they were not even called Jehovah's witnesses? How sad

I follow Bible words not magazine words.

Gruni1234:


Barrister Sir, I think you need to do a little study on what the trinity is and the truine God as believed by zodiakzax and the mainstream Christians.

One with God, means being part of the Godhead He the Holy Spirit is God.


One with the Father

The Father here is part of the trinity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and these three are ONE

One in what? Nature and essence. I believe is their point including zodiakzax

So if these three are ONE in nature and essence then the Holy Spirit is One with the Son and one with the Father.


So He is absolutely right to say The Holy Spirit is One with the Father.

If he said "same as the Father" then that's where the problem willl be. I think he explained this already. So can you leave this analyses to a third party? I will present your case and his and from analyses see whose is valid or not.

TATIME:
If i'm to be in the audience, of course i'll be shocked that a religious group is teaching it's members to be cold towards their family members who aren't members of their religious group.
But whoever reads and meditate thoroughly on the words from Jesus will have a different opinion. (Matthew 12:47-49) It's either you hate Jesus who started all these or you demand for a reason to grasp the practical applications of what Jesus taught and it's benefits!
So if you choose the first option you'll definitely hate those following His instructions since Jesus is no more here in the flesh and you can't slap Him,arrest Him or kill Him. John 17:14
But you dare not choose the second option (asking for the practical applications of what Jesus taught and it's benefits) because if you do, i bet you you will end up becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses!

Gruni1234:


Barrister Sir, I think you need to do a little study on what the trinity is and the truine God as believed by zodiakzax and the mainstream Christians.

One with God, means being part of the Godhead He the Holy Spirit is God.


One with the Father

The Father here is part of the trinity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and these three are ONE

One in what? Nature and essence. I believe is their point including zodiakzax

So if these three are ONE in nature and essence then the Holy Spirit is One with the Son and one with the Father.


So He is absolutely right to say The Holy Spirit is One with the Father.

If he said "same as the Father" then that's where the problem willl be. I think he explained this already. So can you leave this analyses to a third party? I will present your case and his and from analyses see whose is valid or not.

so what did he say ? Same as who ? Lolzzzzzzzz

Gruni1234:


Barrister Sir, I think you need to do a little study on what the trinity is and the truine God as believed by zodiakzax and the mainstream Christians.

One with God, means being part of the Godhead He the Holy Spirit is God.


One with the Father

The Father here is part of the trinity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and these three are ONE

One in what? Nature and essence. I believe is their point including zodiakzax

So if these three are ONE in nature and essence then the Holy Spirit is One with the Son and one with the Father.


So He is absolutely right to say The Holy Spirit is One with the Father.

If he said "same as the Father" then that's where the problem willl be. I think he explained this already. So can you leave this analyses to a third party? I will present your case and his and from analyses see whose is valid or not.

look at this undercover trinitarian ooooo so what did he say ? Same as who ? Lolzzzzzzzz