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How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? - Religion (8) - Nairaland

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 3:33pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


Where is this lake of fire?
Revelations is silent, hence let's wait and see. Even the venue of the Great White Throne Judgement is not expressedly stated.

After the fire destroys the armies in Revelation 20:9, the earth also will be destroyed as 2 Peter 3:10-12 and after the judgement of the devil we are told in verse 11/12 that from the Presence of He that sat on the Throne the Earth (already destroyed ) and heavens (also torched) fled away!

So, the actual location is not given and for want of a reference, I will not speculate!

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 3:37pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


If the fire devours them, and they still remain to be cast into the lake of fire, then the fire didn't really devour them. eh?
The fire devours the flesh but the souls head hellwards, they will be among these:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelations 20:13

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 3:38pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


After burning them down to ashes, their ashes will be thrown into the lake of fire?
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

There you would find your answer.
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by goodnews201668: 3:43pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

Sir, consider this:
10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name
Revelations 14:10,11
I believe this is clear enough and agrees with both Matthew 10 and Revelations 20

This is not the first time the Bible is using that word torment but let me address your assertion.

But bear in mind that the book revelation uses figurative languages that are not to be understand literally.

Look at how Bible described the destruction of Babylon.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,


10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.


Take a closer look at this portion you'll see that

1: Bible mentioned she was burned with fire after God's judgement on her.

2: kings of the earth who committed fornication with her mourned her and lamented when they see the smoke from her or smoke burning her.

3: She was tormented and they couldn't help.
They were rather scared.

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

4: They can't help hut cry when they saw the smoke burning her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

5: An Angel cast a stone into sea and said the stone represent Babylon and that she will be found no more.

In other words she Babylon is destroyed and gone even when the Bible said she was been tormented.

So fire and torment are symbolical and Revelation's lake of fire is different from Gehenna where Jesus said one can cut body parts and throw into it.

So revelation shows torment can also mean destruction and that explains why death and hell are cast into the lake of fire.
Which means the second death or destruction!
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 3:51pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


The beast being talked about here is the Roman empire.
Daniel 7:17 talks about a king, I go with that. Daniel 7 also talks of the fact that the beasts were kingdoms meaning the Beast refers to both the king and his kingdom.
If you doubt this Daniel 2 describes Christ's Kingdom as a Rock and at the same time we know that Jesus is the Rock. Isaiah 28, Matthew 16.
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 3:53pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


Compare Malachi 4:1,3. Can the wicked be alive and still be ashes?
Scholar8200:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
There you would find your answer.
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 3:58pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:
The fire devours the flesh but the souls head hellwards, they will be among these:

Is that what the Bible says? That the fire will devour only their flesh? What about Satan that does not have flesh?

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:00pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:
The fire devours the flesh but the souls head hellwards, they will be among these:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelations 20:13

So you mean there are "living souls" now which are trapped in the sea, and which the sea will give up at the end?

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 4:04pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


In Jer. 17:27, GOD said that Jerusalem would burn with a fire that shall not be quenched. Is Jerusalem still burning today?
Jozzy4:

if you truly believe the bold , then lets examine a parallel passage with Rev 14:10,11
God warn the nation of Edom
"
And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch,
and her soil into sulfur;
her land shall become burning pitch.
Night and day it shall not be quenched;
its smoke shall go up forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
none shall pass through it forever and ever."
Isa 34: 9,10
was the Land of Edom thrown into hellfire? or was it destroyed ?
You are missing it! We talk of parallel passage that concern the topic at hand - final judgement of man when time is over.

This passage speaks:
I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Matt 22:32
Though physically dead, Jesus affirmed that those men were living!
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:05pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

There you would find your answer.

What question does that answer? Malachi 4:1,3 depicts what will happen at the last day. The wicked will be burnt to ashes. It does not say their flesh will be burnt, and souls spared. Where is that teaching from?

What about Satan who does not have flesh? What about him will be burnt to ashes on that terrible day?
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 4:06pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


If the fire devours them, and they still remain to be cast into the lake of fire, then the fire didn't really devour them. eh?
The rich man died and was buried and IN HELL he lifted up his eyes.

The armies were consumed and devoured by fire and in hell they were till Revelations 20:13

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:07pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:
You are missing it! We talk of parallel passage that concern the topic at hand - final judgement of man when time is over.

This passage speaks:
I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Matt 22:32
Though physically dead, Jesus affirmed that those men were living!

GOD said Jerusalem would burn with a fire that cannot be quenched. Is Jerusalem still burning?

The bolded part: where are they living now?

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 4:09pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


GOD said Jerusalem would burn with a fire that cannot be quenched. Is Jerusalem still burning?

The bolded part: where are they living now?
Does that passage relate to the final judgement? NO.

Jesus said as much-they are living-, there I stand.

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:11pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

The rich man died and was buried and IN HELL he lifted up his eyes.

The armies were consumed and devoured by fire and in hell they were till Revelations 20:13

The bolded part: what?! Is that what the Bible said?

The Bible said that the fire devoured them. No part of them were remaining. DEVOURED!

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:12pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

Does that passage relate to the final judgement? NO.

Jesus said as much-they are living-, there I stand.

If Malachi 4:1,3 is not talking about the final judgment, what then is it talking about?

Also, have you no idea where Abraham is supposedly living now eh?
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 4:14pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


What question does that answer? Malachi 4:1,3 depicts what will happen at the last day. The wicked will be burnt to ashes. It does not say their flesh will be burnt, and souls spared. Where is that teaching from?

What about Satan who does not have flesh? What about him will be burnt to ashes on that terrible day?
Good question!
Satan would not be devoured but taken and cast into the Lake of fire:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:10

Notice the last sentence, the beast and false prophet would still be there after 1000 years! That establishes the fact that annihilation is a fallacy and Eternal lake of fire is literal else why have they not been consumed after 1000 years?

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:22pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

Good question!
Satan would not be devoured but taken and cast into the Lake of fire:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:10

Notice the last sentence, the beast and false prophet would still be there after 1000 years! That establishes the fact that annihilation is a fallacy and Eternal lake of fire is literal else why have they not been consumed after 1000 years?

See Rev. 20:8,9. Satan mobilizes them against GOD. Fire descends and devours them. After devouring, is there anything remaining?

Also, Ezekiel 28:13-18 talks about Satan being burnt to ashes.

What are you saying?
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 4:23pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


If Malachi 4:1,3 is not talking about the final judgment, what then is it talking about?

Also, have you no idea where Abraham is supposedly living now eh?
The scene of Malachi is on earth and is further explained in Revelations 20.

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 4:26pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


The bolded part: what?! Is that what the Bible said?

The Bible said that the fire devoured them. No part of them were remaining. DEVOURED!
Jesus already clarified what happens at death in the story of Lazarus. Matt 22:32 reinforces this.

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:27pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

Good question!
Satan would not be devoured but taken and cast into the Lake of fire:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:10

Notice the last sentence, the beast and false prophet would still be there after 1000 years! That establishes the fact that annihilation is a fallacy and Eternal lake of fire is literal else why have they not been consumed after 1000 years?

The bolded part: really?

See Psalm 37:9,10. The wicked will be NO MORE! They will CEASE TO EXIST! Please, is this not the definition of annihilation?

sad
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:28pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

The scene of Malachi is on earth and is further explained in Revelations 20.


You have not answered my question: what scene is Malachi 4:1,3 talking about, if it is not the judgment day?

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:29pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

Jesus already clarified what happens at death in the story of Lazarus. Matt 22:32 reinforces this.

Where is Abraham supposedly living now?

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:32pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

Good question!
Satan would not be devoured but taken and cast into the Lake of fire:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:10

Notice the last sentence, the beast and false prophet would still be there after 1000 years! That establishes the fact that annihilation is a fallacy and Eternal lake of fire is literal else why have they not been consumed after 1000 years?

Psalm 37:9,10 talks about the obliteration of the wicked. How is it you say annihilation is a fallacy?

1 Like

Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:36pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

Good question!
Satan would not be devoured but taken and cast into the Lake of fire:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:10

Notice the last sentence, the beast and false prophet would still be there after 1000 years! That establishes the fact that annihilation is a fallacy and Eternal lake of fire is literal else why have they not been consumed after 1000 years?

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abideth on him" Jn.3:36

If you claim the wicked will be alive forever burning somewhere, how come the Bible says the wicked will not see life?

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:38pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:
Jesus already clarified what happens at death in the story of Lazarus. Matt 22:32 reinforces this.

If Jesus was talking about the fate of man at death in the story of Lazarus, does it mean righteous people are taken to Abraham's bosom at death?
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:39pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:
Jesus already clarified what happens at death in the story of Lazarus. Matt 22:32 reinforces this.

If Jesus was talking about the fate of man at death in the story of Lazarus, does it mean righteous people are taken to Abraham's bosom at death?

1 Like

Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:43pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

Jesus already clarified what happens at death in the story of Lazarus. Matt 22:32 reinforces this.

The Bible tells us where man (both righteous and wicked) goes at death. See Eccl. 9:10.

Is Abraham's bosom the grave?
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by goodnews201668: 4:43pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

Jesus already clarified what happens at death in the story of Lazarus. Matt 22:32 reinforces this.

This story is a parable not a real life event.

Jesus made use of many parables like the merchant, sowing of seed, virgirns.
All these weren't real or real events.

Concerning Jesus the Bible said:

Matthew 13:34-35English Standard Version (ESV)
Prophecy and Parables

34 All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. 35 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:[a]

“I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”
Footnotes:

Matthew 13:35 Some manuscripts Isaiah the prophet.

So we know why Jesus teaches with illustrations, word pictures and hyperbolic stories.

Now answer me this:
When Jesus said it will be easier for a camel to pass through the needles eye than for a rich man yo enter in God's kingdom,
Was Jesus saying that a camel can pass through the needle's eyes?

Again does it mean that a rich must wait for a Carmel to pass through the needle's eye before he can attain the kingdom?

Please i am waiting for answers.

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:55pm On Apr 21, 2016
goodnews201668:
Again does it mean that a rich must wait for a Carmel to pass through the needle's eye before he can attain the kingdom?

Ask am o grin

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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by goodnews201668: 5:01pm On Apr 21, 2016
DoctorAlien:


So you mean there are "living souls" now which are trapped in the sea, and which the sea will give up at the end?

Watch him avoid this question!
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Jozzy4: 6:03pm On Apr 21, 2016
Scholar8200:

You are missing it! We talk of parallel passage that concern the topic at hand - final judgement of man when time is over.


ur runaway tactic as usual grin ,

if u examine Isaiah 34:9,10 , you will see how much it parallels with Rev 14:10,11

both talk about burning day and night, and smoke ascending forever , which begs the question : was the Land of Edom cast into hellfire? or was it destroyed ? the knowledge of this can greatly help a bible student to understand the same context at Rev 14:10,11


This passage speaks:
I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Matt 22:32
Though physically dead, Jesus affirmed that those men were living!

what does this passage got to do with what is been discussed ? the context shows Jesus is discussing THE RESSURECTION. matt 22:31, therefore base on this hope, God could view his friends as alive though in reality they are dead

For those who insist this doesnt mean ressurection but that they are actual living , the question : they are exactly Alive , at where ?
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Jozzy4: 6:11pm On Apr 21, 2016
goodnews201668:


This story is a parable not a real life event.

Jesus made use of many parables like the merchant, sowing of seed, virgirns.
All these weren't real or real events.

Concerning Jesus the Bible said:

Matthew 13:34-35English Standard Version (ESV)
Prophecy and Parables

34 All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. 35 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:[a]

“I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”
Footnotes:

Matthew 13:35 Some manuscripts Isaiah the prophet.

So we know why Jesus teaches with illustrations, word pictures and hyperbolic stories.

Now answer me this:
When Jesus said it will be easier for a camel to pass through the needles eye than for a rich man yo enter in God's kingdom,
Was Jesus saying that a camel can pass through the needle's eyes?

Again does it mean that a rich must wait for a Carmel to pass through the needle's eye before he can attain the kingdom?

Please i am waiting for answers.

camel passing through a needles eye is just impossible, yet Jesus said it will be easier for a camel to do so , when I was still very young this part baffles me alot , I later came to realize that not everything Jesus said it to be taken at face value .

yet the so - called scholar82 might even tell u its possible , dont be surprised . someone who belive grave will be burned forever will accept anything no matter how unsensible and ridiculous it is . do u note where he said his imaginary soul have two eyes and two feet plus TONGUE ? when its clear this are human attribute. u begin to wonder what else his imaginary soul wont have , probably it might have genitals . why not ? afterall it drinks water, what stop this same fictional soul from eating, or even having intimacy .

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