frank317:
In as much as it is true that everyone has a right to his life and can decide to take it but what about ur loved ones who u might deny a lot of things once u are gone.

I believe we have the responsibility to live happily in a community where pain is reduced to its nearest minimum.

We are here to help each other and understand that the decision we make might affect the life of others especially when these decisions are selfish and irrational.

If a father commits suicide he leaves his wife loveless and children orphans... I would there advise him not to and together as humans we try to resplolve the problem that is leading to suicide.

Everyone loves life, whatever may cause one to take his precious life must be checked. A society where people kill themselves easily is a sign that something is wrong with that society. Death is something everyone fears. It's am uncertainty that's a mystery to man. For one to willing opt for this uncertainty is only a sign that he must be very uncomfortable in life. This is why we owe each other the responsibility of making each other comfortable.

We owe our life just as we have the responsibility to make this world a better place. We owe our life that's why we must ensure we are happy all the time and not destroy it.

vooks:

Love, responsibility, 'precious life', 'better place'

WHO CARES?
WHY?

And does it mean that if there was no 'pain' in the world occasioned by our suicide then it is a perfect option?

frank317:


We care... Humans care. We are that way as humans.

Anything that would make us feel pain... We avoid it. If my friend will kill himself and I will be sad becasue of his absence then its my responsibility to help him not kill himself so that I will not be sad.

To be sincere... I know of only a life with pain. Pain, surprisingly has its function (both negative and positive). In a bid to avoid pain we make our selves feel better. Don't u like feeling good? Do u like pain?

Honestly I have no idea how human morality would have been without pain. How we would act in a painless world is beyond my imagination.

vooks:

I'm asking what's so special about you, another mass of flesh to make you care?

All animals are averse to pain. So you mean if somebody's death would not cause any 'pain' then suicide is an option?

Meaning if suicide caused no pain it is a perfect option?

Honestly I have no idea why an atheist would give a damn about abstract human constructs which are hopelessly subjective as morality

frank317:

There is nothing special about me or another mass of flesh.I just hate pain and I will avod it if I can. If the death of my sister will make me feel sad I will stop it if I can.

Are u looking for answers based on hypothetical world? Is that why u are here. The reality is: death causes pain to anyone affected, either directly or indirectly and we, as humans act based in that.
Besides pain leads to suicide... If there was no pain do u think I am u would be discussing about suicide?

Pain (in every way u see it) or discomfort causes suicide and suicide causes pain. If u eliminate pain in this world we would have a totalluly different world. Are planing on creating ur own world. Don't ask me irrelevant questions of u have no point.

Atheists feel pain bro... We feel unhappy, sad and all that...and in the bid to avoid pain, morality is created.

Unfortunately u theists, when slapped, will first, rush to go look into ur holy book and read to find out if ur God concept wrote in his letter that u should feel pain when slapped before actually knowing if it is wrong or if another will feel pain when u slap him.. This is how ur own morality is built... Based on what is written in a book. No wonder ya all feel it's right that Abraham should attempt killing his son. U think its moral for Abraham to kill his son in response to a voice in his head?

vooks:

You have avoided my question
It is true nobody likes pain, but my question is, is pain to others your only incentive against suicide?

Not necessarily. Some commit suicide just because they can.
And I'm not questioning the motives of suicide victims, I'm wondering why you care

Not necessarily, some discomfort may cause suicide but not all. Your postulate is basically suicide for fun, and without pain to nobody is cool. Is this what you are saying?

Suicide can be an escape from pain. Did you know that?
We have a suicide victim cornered and in deep pain. Then there is the pain of grief of those they leave behind if at all. Should they care about others before themselves?

All humans feel pain.
Morality is pain avoidance attempt in short,isn't it? Suicide as well is a pain avoidance mechanism
But it is highly subjective you must admit

Let's stick to atheism for now. Needless digression won't help

frank317:

No... Like I said earlier, an occurance of suicide is an indication that there is something wrong with the environment. I wouldn't advise anyone to commit suicide, becasue it sends a negative message of hopelessness. It also creates a vacuum, its somewhat selfish too. But the cause of a suicidal act can never be over looked. One wouldn't just got commit suicide if he is happy, would he?




Lol... U seriously think people commit suicide becasue they can? Where did u get that. People commit suicide becasue of something undesirable and unbearable happening to them. I care becasue of all the above mentioned.



I have never heard that suicide could be for fun... Pain, discomfort, delusion, are usually the cause of suicide. Without pain, the world will be a different place. We wouldn't have this discussion. This is my honest position. I am yet to understand how suicide can be without pain, so I cannot answer that question.


Glad u know this. If one's pain is so unbearable that he fails to care about how others feel, it shows it shows something is missing in that environment. They lack the empathy to care about how others feel, that's a problem of its own and I am not comfortable with it...


No one is an island... It is selfish to avoid pain only to cause pain to others. It's like saying if one feels hungry (pain) its okay for him to steal from others (hurting others) to feel satisfied (avoid pain).
However some people lack the empathy to understand how others feel when they steal from them. Just as some people lack the empathy to understand how others feel when they create a vauume in other's life.
Morality is avoiding pain both for u and for concerned others, not just avoiding pain. Empathy drives morality.


Ok

vooks:


Thank you sir for attempting to explain your position.

I'm trying to look at life as an atheist. It is a product of chance,time plus matter. Matter is non-moral, non-reasoning....
Morals and reason are a facade.
An atheist may be moral,but they lack ANY logical basis for morality. They can't explain they subscribe to a belief and not the other. This is why you are so much persuaded suicide is 'wrong'. You know it is 'wrong' because it is caused by and causes pain.
But who said humans MUST minimize pain?

frank317:


Ur problem is that u are trying to see atheism from ur own point if view and u just believe morality must come from what ever creator u think created this world.

Matter is none moral? What ever that means. How we came to this world has nothing to do with morality. Having moral is how we have chosen to be long after we came here.

Any one who has conscience can be moral. U erroneously think atheist don't have conscience just becasue they don't believe in a creator? That's actually lame.

Why to do think subscribing to a belief is a logical basis for morality? How can u say atheists lack logical basis for morality. Perhaps u have a different view of what morality is.

It's just simple.. If john slaps me, and i feel pain, I as human will instantly know that if I slap another, he will feel pain. This how empathy is developed. Knowing what others feel in a certain situations. It needs no creator to understand.

Who said humans must not minimize pain? The bottom line is we just cannot help acting like humans. Our personality is built on our inherited traits plus our socialization process... It has nothing to do with any man made creator concept.

vooks:

Nope, you have never interrogated atheism logical conclusions, just like most ankle-deep atheists. That's all I'm helping you do

And you can also choose your own morality seeing morality is a CHOICE!

Conscience?
What is conscience? Care explaining what that is?

Because there simply is no OBJECTIVE basis for picking something over the other as being moral or immoral

You are missing the point; human beings can CHOOSE not to empathize. Empathy is conditioning. Just like suicide. Human beings are the ONLY known animals which deliberately rise against all instincts and inflict lethal harm on themselves. Humans can rise above ANY conditioning. Why should they not?

None of this is cast in steel. You are socialized to shun eating human flesh. But you can still explore human delicacies. You are socialized not to sleep with animals, you can still hump a donkey. In short, there is no any sensible reason why not

vooks:

Nope, you have never interrogated atheism logical conclusions, just like most ankle-deep atheists. That's all I'm helping you do

And you can also choose your own morality seeing morality is a CHOICE!

Conscience?
What is conscience? Care explaining what that is?

Because there simply is no OBJECTIVE basis for picking something over the other as being moral or immoral

You are missing the point; human beings can CHOOSE not to empathize. Empathy is conditioning. Just like suicide. Human beings are the ONLY known animals which deliberately rise against all instincts and inflict lethal harm on themselves. Humans can rise above ANY conditioning. Why should they not?

None of this is cast in steel. You are socialized to shun eating human flesh. But you can still explore human delicacies. You are socialized not to sleep with animals, you can still hump a donkey. In short, there is no any sensible reason why not

KingEbukasBlog:


He keeps creating more problems for himself . See him talking of conscience like it came out from thin air ... well , he believes it did

frank317:


Who be this one? What the hell is wrong with this guys? Where did conscience come from? Do u know where conscience came from?

How did i talk about conscience like it came from thin air? Can u explain that statement.

I have clearly explained my take on suicide. I have explained why I think it's bad. It's just the same way I feel stealing is bad - becasue of the general nagative effect it has in the society.

Did we talk about the origin or conscience in our conversation? Do u even reason at all.I have always said it... U are the noisiest dumbest fellow I have ever seen in this forum.

Did u hear vooks talking about objective basis for morality like it matters? What has objective basis for morality got to do with the fact that I can differentiate evil from good? Do atheist go around killing people? Are they the ones deceiving people in church? Are they the ones defending the wickedness in the Bible? Are they boko haram? Don't we have charity organization owned by atheist? So what's has objective moral basis got to do with anything?

frank317:


Who be this one? What the hell is wrong with this guys? Where did conscience come from? Do u know where conscience came from?

How did i talk about conscience like it came from thin air? Can u explain that statement.

I have clearly explained my take on suicide. I have explained why I think it's bad. It's just the same way I feel stealing is bad - becasue of the general nagative effect it has in the society.

Did we talk about the origin or conscience in our conversation? Do u even reason at all.I have always said it... U are the noisiest dumbest fellow I have ever seen in this forum.

Did u hear vooks talking about objective basis for morality like it matters? What has objective basis for morality got to do with the fact that I can differentiate evil from good? Do atheist go around killing people? Are they the ones deceiving people in church? Are they the ones defending the wickedness in the Bible? Are they boko haram? Don't we have charity organization owned by atheist? So what's has objective moral basis got to do with anything?

vooks:


Objectivity in morality is important my brother. If you can't objectively explain why you prefer one course of action to the other, then your behavior is arbitrary, and you have no right calling out who don't do what you do. Let me illustrate. If you were given shirts of different colors and you chose yellow, and another guy chose green, if you can't explain the objective rationale of your choice, then you should not look down on the guy who chose differently. Yellow is as good as green.

KingEbukasBlog:


Reeetard

frank317:


I don't expect anything less do u. U never disappoint always on point with ur stupidity.

frank317:


Listen to ur self. U have clearly and explicitly explained to you why I think suicide is wrong. But no, my reason for thinking suicide is wrong must be what u have in mind even if it does not make sense.

Why don't u tell me what u have in mind should be one's objective morality for explaining an action.

What did u find missing in my explanation? I have giving u explanation on why stealing or suicide is bad given all negativity it carries in its baggage.

Don't give me the impression that u really have no idea why u opened this thread.

Let's listen to others as well. Thanks
Pls don't get influence by Ebuka who has resolved to opening dumb threads just to feel relevant.

jayriginal:
There are certain traits that make us human. Those traits border on the emotional /sentimental. I guess that's what Frank was trying to explain and that's why he brought in pain and regards for the feelings of others.

When we talk of something being dehumanizing, we know exactly what it means. Without sentiments, we are just walking robots. Software if you like.

Vooks, is your take on uninstalling software the same as your take on suicide? I don't think so. Software may not be the perfect analogy but unless you wish to split hairs. . .

vooks:

Would I be right to say that these 'certain traits that make us humans' baseless?
What are they founded on? Conditioning?

jayriginal:


Kindly rephrase.

vooks:
1. Would you consider it? Or have you considered it yet?
2. Do you have anything for/against it?
3. Briefly substantiate your #2 answer

sonOfLucifer:

1. Considered it once. One pretty tough time in my life.
2. Matters of life are not so easily explained. There are some situations in which suicide can be liberating.
3. Mostly health related. Apart from these, I won't advice anyone to commit suicide no matter how tough/difficult a person's situation might be. Hope for the best, stay positive, keep grinding.

vooks:

I'm sorry.
The 'certain traits that make us human', are we slaves to them or can we rise above them?
Could you please list them

vooks:

Negro,
You have some Houdini genes? Quit disappearing antics..not cool

Excellent and precise answer. What's your IQ?