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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? (43187 Views)
Poll: Does the New Testament require us to tithe?Yes: 38% (28 votes)No: 61% (44 votes) This poll has ended |
Who Says God Can Not Change Your Story (photo) / Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant / The Truth Your Pastor Would Not Tell You About Tithes: Tithing Is Unscriptural U (2) (3) (4)
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Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 11:35am On Aug 10, 2009 |
I tell folks that titheing remains one of the very genuine injuctions of the bible, its never me to stress on some issues when i know that humans are always dual-parallel in discretions. But no doubt when i see an avenue for peeps to be blessed what use will it be to be selfish ehn? You can either believe in titheing when you read a true life experience of a tither: STORY: been born-again way back 2001 and ever since i have made a path to pay tithes, believe me friends life has never been this sweeter, my choice for following this path was based on some personal conviction i got while reading thru' the scriptures, beleive me no pastor or whomsoever ever stressed on me its in my nature to consider things b4 doin them. all thru' this past 8yrs, i truly see myself increasing steadily in my income, at just a tender age within my twenties, i know how things soared for me such that even the aged marvel and i often get so amazed, am in my mid-twenties now and can boost of owning 2 landed properties, a fast car and a great job and believe me i dont sweat to get them.i boost in God my source. Sometime march this yr, i came across some post made by some fellow nairalanders on this issue of titheing, and guess what i oblidged and i swear ever since then, things havent got so bad in my life like it did for just this barely 5mths, i became so broke and frustrated so much that i even had to beg for lil change to eat daily, all the pay i get monthly only God knows where it tolls, and guess what i never got to recall my fault until last wk, after all said and done, i asked for forgiveness and things are beginning to pick up considerably with this i want to state that most infos we get here are actually made to mar us and not make us, i am a true evidence to this. before we read and get things absorbed pls try and compare them with the true word of GOD,"the bible",i dont ever believe titheing was aborted in the scriptures, just because a thing is been abused doesnt make it bad afterall from my experience on titheing issues here, alot of folks base there not titheing simpy because of how our MOGs use this money for selfish reasons, but why should what another man does affect what God says you and I should do for our personal blessings i ask? i know every folk has right to express what they feel abt certain issues in the bible here on this forum, but for the true xtians you might be amazed that while you're trying to defend you seemingly right character you might ignorantly be blinding many sheep from God's covenant and kingdom i have come to truely believe irrespective of what any folk think that titheing is a SPIRITUAL THING and will never i repeat never be understood by a CARNAL MIND (Icor.1:25-29, 2:11-15) though i might sound foolish but i rather be foolish in the things of God than wise in the things of the world God bless ya'll This is what i have come up with Tithe - The Definition: The “Ma`aser”- In the time of Abraham “Bikkurim, Terumah, Ma'aser Rishon and Terumat Ma'aser” -In the time of Moses and Under Mosaic Law Tithing – The Purpose Tithing – The Law debate [color=#990000]Tithing – Money or Agricultural produce? Tithing – Once in a Lifetime or Daily or Weekly or Monthly or Yearly? Tithing – Has it been abolished? Tithing – The Priesthood Significance [U]Tithing - what did Jesus and Paul say?[/U] Tithe – can it be substituted for freewill offering? Tithe – An Injunction or Suggestion Tithe – Why should I give when the clergies make a mess of it? 1 Like |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 11:55am On Aug 10, 2009 |
Why dont you start offering burnt offferings ,it might also work for you. I suggest in place of grains and animals ,you can place like N100,000 and offer as an acceptable offering to the Lord. |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 12:23pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
Let me begin by saying today many "christians" in quote are not brethren. Jesus did not call us christians, unbelievers did. He called us brethren i.e brothers and sisters because we are co heirs with him. He is the only begotten of the father and we (brethren, now popularly called christians) are adopted children of the father. Hence we are children of God, and Christ is the firstborn. Now to whether tithing is necessary or not, I would like to do a little exposition on the subject, tithe. Abraham was the first person to give tithe as recorded in the bible. He was not commanded to do so. He just gave it to the King of Salem, an act of gratitude to God However at a time God commanded that Isrealites must pay their tithe of everything to the Priest ( the levites) so that there may be food in His house. And until Jesus died the law of tithing was valid. Now that Jesus had died, and has given us the grace of sonship, should we still pay tithe? To answer this question, I would like to inform you that there are dispensations in the human cycle. Many believe we have 7 dispensations others claims it's 3 dispensations. However whether 3 or 7 one thing is generally agreed upon; we are in the dispensation of grace preceeding the dispensation of the Kingdom. In the new testament church tithe was not an issue infact one may want to conclude that they didnt pay tithes. What is emphasised in the dispensation of grace is that we owe our ALL to God. If we pay our tithe it is good and God would accept it. However the scriptures teaches us to give as we have purposed in our hearts. If I may say God expects us to give more than our tithe. And since we are no longer under the law tithe doesnt make us more righteous if we pay it because our righteousness is not made of the law it is of Christ. If a believer gives God a 5% ,God would accept it, if it's 10% he would accept it, if it's 100% he would accept it. I know in many churches today just like the financial institutions may pastors have financial targets and thus are saying all they can to get money of their members pockets. But note that in the new testament all believers ( brethren) are priests and Christ is our high priest. i.e we all have access to the father 1Pet. 2:9 Let us not be quick to attribute God's blessings to money it is an act of belittling God afterall he blesses even the unbelievers who don't pay tithe. Being a christian doesnt necessarily mean you will enjoy financial riches. There are a lot of factors that contribute to that. I dont like typing long stories, but really there are a lot of things to say. In conclusion, you probably had bad experience because you broke covenant with God ( not necessarily because you didnt pay your tithe), but because you left what you had purposed in your heart to give to him just because somebody says don't give. If you pay your tithe, it's a good practice, and if you dont pay "tithe" you are not condemned as long as you worship God with your substance ( whatever you have purposed in your heart to give) God bless you 1 Like |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by PastorAIO: 12:29pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
chukwudi44: Are you sure that God will find the smell of burning naira notes as pleasing an odour as the smell of a cows burning carcass? If you can vouch for that I am ready to empty out my account and set fire to it. @Tonye-t. Please can you show us where we can verify that the story of the blessed tither is real. We have the evidence shown here by many that non-tithers actually make up the 50 richest people on earth. The evidence was presented and anybody can go and verify. Please can you do the same for us. No. Name Net worth(USD) Age Citizenship Residence Sources of wealth Ref. 1▲ Bill Gates $40.0 billion ▼ 53 United States United States Microsoft [3] 2▼ Warren Buffett $37.0 billion ▼ 78 United States United States Berkshire Hathaway [3] 3▼ Carlos Slim Helú $35.0 billion ▼ 69 Mexico Mexico Telmex, América Móvil [3] 4▲ Lawrence Ellison $22.5 billion ▼ 64 United States United States Oracle Corporation [3] 5▲ Ingvar Kamprad and family $22.0 billion ▼ 82 Sweden Switzerland IKEA [4] 6▲ Karl Albrecht $21.5 billion ▼ 89 Germany Germany Aldi Süd [4] 7▼ Mukesh Ambani $19.5 billion ▼ 51 India India Reliance Industries [4] 8▼ Lakshmi Mittal $19.3 billion ▼ 58 India United Kingdom Arcelor Mittal [4] 9▲ Theo Albrecht $18.8 billion ▼ 86 Germany Germany ALDI Nord, Trader Joe's [5] 10▲ Amancio Ortega $18.3 billion ▼ 73 Spain Spain Inditex Group [6] 11▲ Jim Walton $17.8 billion ▼ 61 United States United States Wal-Mart [7] 12▲ Alice Walton $17.6 billion ▼ 59 United States United States Wal-Mart [7] 12▲ Christy Walton $17.6 billion ▼ 54 United States United States Wal-Mart [7] 12▲ S. Robson Walton $17.6 billion ▼ 65 United States United States Wal-Mart [7] 15▼ Bernard Arnault $16.5 billion ▼ 60 France France LVMH Moët Hennessy • Louis Vuitton [8] 16▼ Li Ka-shing $16.2 billion ▼ 80 Hong Kong Hong Kong Cheung Kong Holdings, Hutchison Whampoa [9] 17▲ Michael Bloomberg $16.0 billion ▲ 67 United States United States Bloomberg L.P. [6] 18▲ Stefan Persson $14.5 billion ▼ 61 Sweden Sweden Hennes & Mauritz 19▲ Charles Koch $14.0 billion ▼ 73 United States United States Koch Industries [10] 19▲ David H. Koch $14.0 billion ▼ 68 United States United States Koch Industries [10] 21▼ Liliane Bettencourt $13.4 billion ▼ 86 France France L'Oréal [3] 22▼ Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud $13.3 billion ▼ 54 Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia Kingdom Holding Company, Citigroup [11] 23▲ Michael Otto and family $13.2 billion ▼ 65 Germany Germany Otto GmbH 24▲ David Thomson and family $13.0 billion ▼ 51 Canada Canada The Thomson Corporation [12] 25▼ Michael Dell $12.3 billion ▼ 44 United States United States Dell 26▲ Donald Bren $12.0 billion ▼ 76 United States United States Irvine Company 26▲ Sergey Brin $12.0 billion ▼ 35 United States United States Google [3] 26▲ Larry Page $12.0 billion ▼ 36 United States United States Google [3] 29▲ Steven Ballmer $11.0 billion ▼ 53 United States United States Microsoft [13] 29▲ Gerald Cavendish Grosvenor and family $11.0 billion ▼ 57 United Kingdom United Kingdom Grosvenor Group [14] 29▲ George Soros $11.0 billion ▲ 78 United States United States Soros Fund Management 32▲ Paul Allen $10.5 billion ▼ 56 United States United States Microsoft [11] 32▼ Raymond Kwok, Thomas Kwok, andWalter Kwok $10.5 billion ▼ 57, 58, and 59 Hong Kong Hong Kong Sun Hung Kai 34▼ Anil Ambani $10.1 billion ▼ 49 India India Anil Dhirubhai Ambani Group [4] 35▲ Abigail Johnson $10.0 billion ▼ 47 United States United States Fidelity Investments 35▲ Susanne Klatten $10.0 billion ▼ 46 Germany Germany BMW 35▲ Ronald Perelman $10.0 billion ▲ 66 United States United States Revlon 35▲ Hans Rausing $10.0 billion ▬ 83 Sweden United Kingdom Tetra Laval [14] 39▲ Birgit Rausing and family $9.9 billion ▼ 85 Sweden Switzerland Tetra Laval 40▲ Michele Ferrero and family $9.5 billion ▼ 82 Italy Monaco Ferrero SpA 40▼ Mikhail Prokhorov $9.5 billion ▼ 43 Russia Russia Interros [15] 40▲ Jack C. Taylor and family $9.5 billion ▼ 86 United States United States Enterprise Rent-A-Car 43▲ Mohammed Al Amoudi $9.0 billion ▬ 63 Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia Corral Petroleum Holdings 43▼ Anne Cox Chambers $9.0 billion ▼ 89 United States United States Cox Enterprises 43▲ Carl Icahn $9.0 billion ▼ 73 United States United States American Car and Foundry Company [16] 43▲ George Kaiser $9.0 billion ▼ 66 United States United States BOK Financial Corporation 43▼ Lee Shau Kee $9.0 billion ▼ 81 Hong Kong Hong Kong Henderson Land Development 43▲ Forrest Edward Mars, Jr. $9.0 billion ▼ 77 United States United States Mars, Incorporated [16] 43▲ Jacqueline Mars $9.0 billion ▼ 69 United States United States Mars, Incorporated [16] 43▲ John Mars $9.0 billion ▼ 72 United States United States Mars, Incorporated [16] 51▼ Roman Abramovich $8.5 billion ▼ 42 Russia Russia Millhouse Capital [17] |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 12:31pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
Let me begin by saying today many "christians" in quote are not brethren. Jesus did not call us christians, unbelievers did. He called us brethren i.e brothers and sisters because we are co heirs with him. He is the only begotten of the father and we (brethren, now popularly called christians) are adopted children of the father. Hence we are children of God, and Christ is the firstborn. Now to whether tithing is necessary or not, I would like to do a little exposition on the subject, tithe. Abraham was the first person to give tithe as recorded in the bible. He was not commanded to do so. He just gave it to the King of Salem, an act of gratitude to God However at a time God commanded that Isrealites must pay their tithe of everything to the Priest ( the levites) so that there may be food in His house. And until Jesus died the law of tithing was valid. Now that Jesus had died, and has given us the grace of sonship, should we still pay tithe? To answer this question, I would like to inform you that there are dispensations in the human cycle. Many believe we have 7 dispensations others claims it's 3 dispensations. However whether 3 or 7 one thing is generally agreed upon; we are in the dispensation of grace preceeding the dispensation of the Kingdom. In the new testament church tithe was not an issue infact one may want to conclude that they didnt pay tithes. What is emphasised in the dispensation of grace is that we owe our ALL to God. If we pay our tithe it is good and God would accept it. However the scriptures teaches us to give as we have purposed in our hearts. If I may say God expects us to give more than our tithe. And since we are no longer under the law tithe doesnt make us more righteous if we pay it because our righteousness is not made of the law it is of Christ. If a believer gives God a 5% ,God would accept it, if it's 10% he would accept it, if it's 100% he would accept it. I know in many churches today just like the financial institutions may pastors have financial targets and thus are saying all they can to get money of their members pockets. But note that in the new testament all believers ( brethren) are priests and Christ is our high priest. i.e we all have access to the father 1Pet. 2:9 Let us not be quick to attribute God's blessings to money it is an act of belittling God afterall he blesses even the unbelievers who don't pay tithe. Being a christian doesnt necessarily mean you will enjoy financial riches. There are a lot of factors that contribute to that. I dont like typing long stories, but really there are a lot of things to say. In conclusion, you probably had bad experience because you broke covenant with God ( not necessarily because you didnt pay your tithe), but because you left what you had purposed in your heart to give to him just because somebody says don't give. If you pay your tithe, it's a good practice, and if you dont pay "tithe" you are not condemned as long as you worship God with your substance ( whatever you have purposed in your heart to give) God bless you 1 Like |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tudor6(f): 12:45pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
I didnt see anywhere you proved that titheing is "New testamental" - the only thing i see is a baseless fable, this is Nairaland not Nollywood. tonye-t:That is caused by the credit crunch and not because you refused to pay |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 1:41pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
chukwudi44: Bro, you make me laff a little with ur humors, now lemme make you get this clear, Mr. Chukwudi dont tell me you aint conversant with the portion of the bible that said something about exchanging your livestocks for moneys if the distance we will offer our gifts and tokens are afar? needless showing you the portion as am yet to know your spiritual stance here God bless you! |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 4:27pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
tonye-t: Mr man what am trying to prove to you is that the jewish laws have been fulfilled ,they no longer apply to christians. If you make a personal commitment with God to contribute 10% of your income to God ,it is encouraged but it should have nothing to do with malachi 3:8. People have dedicated their virginity to God ,such sacrifices are borne out of their own freewill,it is not a requirement for prosperity or salvation.2 cor 9:7 clearly tell us to give ouit of freewill and not out of pressure.Tithing as preached in most churches today is a negation of christian principles and ideals ,it has led to so much corruption in the system and is begining to threaten the christian faith. The quotation you quoted earlier on was from deutoronomy 14:22-39 Remember there the tither was expected to eat his tithes with his family,even after converting the livestock to money and getting to the temple he was still required to re-convert the money to food items for himself and his family. That passage also told us when to pay our tithes ,it made mention of 1 .At the end of every year-for the tither and his family to eat their tithes and share with widows and orphans 2.Every third year- For levites ,widows and orphans |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by PastorAIO: 5:52pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
tonye-t: Please tonye-t what did the passage then tell us to do with the money once we have arrived at the distant location where we are to make tithe offering? |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by mamagee6(f): 6:07pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
ehm who said so? |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 1:09pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
@tonye-t ol boy na run u don run come answer the questions na |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 4:17pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
belabela: There is nothing one wont see on nairaland, how will someone say that Brethren aint the same as Xtians. Christian gives even a better qualification of the followers of Christ, Christians meant "Christ-Like". well back to the topic again Abraham was the first person to give tithe as recorded in the bible. He was not commanded to do so. He just gave it to the King of Salem, an act of gratitude to God i'll correct you sir on some of your mistakes here, pardon the word "mistakes" 1. Abraham did not give tithe as an act of gratitude, but as a standard, read on the origin of tithe, and you'll come to understand that heathens paid tithe too (as a tenth portion of their spoils), did any spirit or angel come to tell them to do so?, answer is no, now that it why i said tithe is a spiritual thing that sprools up from a carnal thing, its like looking at a 9mths baby dancing at the sound of a song, who taught them to shake themselves i ask you, its like seeing them directing their hand to their mouths when a substance in on it (hand), for your correction, we give OFFERINGS as a act of gratitude and not TITHE.and again Abraham did not just give, nothing happens by chance but choice. get it! 2. Read more Egyptian ariticles and their view of titheing and you'll come to understand that they gave tithe even when Israel was still captives in their land to their own gods and idols and israel paid too, now when God brought the israelites out, this practise was to continue but this time to their SOVEREIGN GOD, who wanted total worship and nothing less and that included their tithes and even mental image of a god. you recall the golden calf they created?its got an egyptian origin research on this gods (sacred cows) called"isis" and "athor"? 3. Titheing was never a law, but an instruction/injuction/standard, recall that a law goes with a punishment, while the later are based on choice, bible put it this way- "then the lord commanded,. . . ," and not "the lord gave a law. . ., " and that is why titheing doesnt have any eternal consequence but personal. |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 4:29pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
Now that Jesus had died, and has given us the grace of sonship, should we still pay tithe? Alot of times, many xtians use words that they dont really understand very well, do you really understand the word GRACE and its spiritual implication? just because Jesus died and we are living in the grace dispensation doesnt mean the old testament becomes obsolete, why dont you go and steal and even have sex, because Christ has died and given us grace. afterall the law of not stealing and furthers were given before the GRACE DISPENSATION. read topics better my friend! check this post link maybe it will give you better understanding of the significance of the OLD TESTAMENT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT! |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 4:48pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
Pastor AIO: Pastor AIO, 1. Titheing is an act of worship based on instructions, do you know that even occultist pay tithes to their deities, yes i said tithe and give offerings too!, Read with an unbiased mindset the scripture Matt.23: from vs. 1 -23 Matt 23:23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices — mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. NIV Recall that this scripture was cited from the new testament, today alot of critics say that christ never gave tithe as a standard, but reading carefully, you'll find it plainly said "you should practise the latter, [size=18pt]without neglecting the former[/size], Pastor AIO now i ask you, aint that word an injuction?just try guess the gesture and mood at which christ made this statement and maybe it'll solve the question. 2. For the list of billionaires you just cut and pasted on ur post goes a long way to show me how some folks mistake LOGICAL KNOWLEDGE with SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE. hmmm pathetic i say! very pathetic! well thats a story for another day |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 4:54pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
Tudór: when will nurses learn to just stick to their syringes and needles when DOCTORS perform surgery. hmmmm well thanks for the most hillarious human right "freedom of speech" |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 5:00pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
Matt 23:23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices — mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. Mr tonye -t ,I think the bold part says it all,tithe was part of the jewish law. When Jesus made that statement,he had not yet died ,so tithe and other jewish rites of the law were still valid. The only way you can validate tithe in contemporary christianity is to show where in the Bible tithe was practised after the death of Jesus christ. Do you mean to tell me that Jesus was too weak to punish these rich occultists for not paying their tithes,while he dealth with you for defaulting for only six months what double standard |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 5:04pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
chukwudi44: Chukwudi my friend, i'll ask you questions based on your post, maybe i'll be able to know ur spiritual maturity 1. What are the jewish laws 2. Who fulfilled it? and How 3. what is the significance of the fulfillment of the Jewish laws? 4. do you understand the difference btw LAWS and COMMANDMENTS? 5. why do we abstain from stealing, lying, fighting, adultery, idolatry, covetousness when they were all given in the old testaments and not the new testaments? u make me laugh! shouldnt we just go ahead and do the opp. since christ has already "PAID THE PRICE"? and afterall we are living in the GRACE ERA like someone stated here lol 6. who are the benefactors of the commonwealth of Israel, and what is God's plan for the Israelites in these times bro, if you're able to answer just 60% of this, i guarantee you are THERE, believe me! pls try and answer this questions, bible refrences will be appreciated too. thanks |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 5:28pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
@tonye-t Answers to your questions 1.Thej ewish laws were the laws given by moses,it also included in the law ancient laws that preceded moses like burnt offering ,circumcision e.t.c 2.Jesus Christ fulfilled it by dying on the cross and paying for our sins by that act 3.The significant of the fulfillment was that we are no longer uder the law but under grace.Under the law any sin you commit you must immediately pay for it ,that explains what happened to the isrealites anytime the sinned against God.The had to suffer because the laws came with a curse ,that curse was what Jesus took away from us and was explained properly in Galatians 3. 4.The laws refer the ancient jewish instructions given to the isrealites by moses,there wrer actually more than 500 of them mentioned among them was that of det 14:22-29 that Malachi was refering to in Mal 3:10. The commandments on the other hand refer to then 10 coomandments God gave to moses that were inscribed on the tablets that tithe was conspicously missing in that list 5 Because these were re-iterated several times in the NT that we should abstain from them,am too busy now to give you bible passages but I shall assure you that I wiill come back with container load of NT passages were they were re-iterated even after the death of Jesus. 6.You make me laugh ,why on earh do you think Jesus came ?Ephesians 2:15 tells us that he died on the cross and abolished the jewish law ,by destroying the enmity between the jews and the gentiles thereby making the two races one. Mr tonye -t ,are you sure you actually undertstand the difference b/w christianity and judaism,your puerile questions makes me begin to wonder ? Why did you think the council of Jerusalem in Acts15 was convoked ? why did paul write to the Galatians ? You make want to begin to cry |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by BlackRevo: 6:02pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
@tonye-t Some question for you. 1) Who did God specifically instruct to collect the Tithe? 2) What was this tithe made to be used for? What ever happened during the time of jesus christ were mostly under Judaism. Example is naming new born babies on the 8th day. |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 6:45pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
@poster So how have you been able to establish by all your rantings and fables that tithing is part of the new testament? |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 7:51am On Aug 13, 2009 |
5. why do we abstain from stealing, lying, fighting, adultery, idolatry, covetousness when they were all given in the old testaments and not the new testaments? u make me laugh! shouldnt we just go ahead and do the opp. since christ has already "PAID THE PRICE"? and afterall we are living in the GRACE ERA like someone stated here lol [quote][/quote] I told you I was going to come back with container load of bible passsages from the NT were christians were admonished to desist from the aboved mentioned practices 1 cor 6 :9-10 Sure you know that the wicked will not posses the kingdom of God. Do not fool yourselves ,people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or are thieves ,none of these will posses the kingdom of God. gal 5 :19-21 What human nature does is quite plain,it shows itself in immoral,filthy and indecent actions ,in worship of idols and withcraft.People become enemies and they fight .They become jealous ,angry ,ambitious ,they seperate into parties and groups,there are envious get drunken,have orgies and do other things liken this .I warn you as I have done before that those who do things like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. I can go on and on ,the bible is actually has more passages thta condemn the above practices in the Nt. It is now obvious you dont read ur bible but only listen to your pastors what a pity |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 9:22am On Aug 13, 2009 |
@ Chukwudi44, Brother, reading thru ur posts here shows me how sensitive and personal you tend to take things, simply because the other doesnt wish to see ur way hasnt called for reasons to mudsling or make u cry, should it? chukwudi44: chukwudi44: |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 10:09am On Aug 13, 2009 |
Now back to the topic: chukwudi44: Chukwudi my Brother, 1. First of all, where you tend to be getting it a lil twisted is the failure to actually understand if TITHEING was given as a LAW OR AN ORDINANCE, when you read the OT, you'll find out that God specifically gave LAWS and he made them understand it was a LAW, hence it goes clearly stated - Ex.12:49 - " The LAW of the 1st born" - Lev.6:14 - " The LAW of the cereal offering" - Lev. 6:25- " The LAW of the sin offering" - Lev.7:7 - " The LAW of the sacrifice of peace offering" - Lev.7:37- " The LAW of the burnt offering" Law of jealousy, leprousy disease, law of fluid discharge and it goes on and on, never was it mentioned enywhere of the LAW of TITHE/TITHEING as the case may be, rather the very first place you'll come across the word TITHE as regarding the israelites exodus from egypt was in Lev.27, reading from verse 1 it goes on like this -1. And the Lord said,. . . vs. 30: it stated TITHE and on it goes Now my case is that many xtians today really tend to approach the scriptures with biased mindset, and the scripture being dynamic for what it is, will sooth the rebellious/wicked motives (the heart of man is desperately wicked)of the wicked man, and likewise good and easy for the simple but prudent man. There is a difference btw LAWS and STANDARDS (e.g. Precepts, Ordinances, Statutories,Commandments), What then are LAWS? Hint: its defined as a decree, principle,act or ruling guiding a thing/people/standard (u can also check it for yourself) Take note of the word standard in a law, recall i said Titheing is a standard, therefore the role of the Law was to show how Tithes/Titheings should be administered, and not that it was in itself a LAW - Chuwkudi44 and co., you guys keep saying LAW has been abolished, but do you know that there is the LAW OF CHRIST? also refered to as THE LAW OF GRACE (1cor.9:20,Col.2:9-10, and lots more) what the LAW of Grace(CHRIST) did was not to abolish but fulfill the LAWS of MOSES (do you also want scriptures to back this?) and in doing so,become a NEW LAW where all the standards and ordinances as given in the OT was to be followed ritually. I quoted Matt.23:23, and clearly showed you that Christ plainly stated that both standards of religious living should not be neglected for the other, and all you could say was that HE(Christ) said that before His death, now if am to hold you on that, didnt christ made mentions of Jusitce, Mercy and Faithfulness b4 His death in that scripture?, if yes, then we should as well forget them becos he has abolished the Law, hello? pls i'll pause here and attend to some clients while we continue later God bless you, especially Chuwudi my friend 1 Like |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 11:29am On Aug 13, 2009 |
The extent some people would go to defend this tithing scam. |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by nuraabi: 12:24pm On Aug 13, 2009 |
me |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 12:51pm On Aug 13, 2009 |
@TONYE-T Why don't you show me were in the NT the aposles received tithes or asked people to pay tithes after the death and ressurection of Jesus. How st Paul was fending for himself as he told us in 1 thes 3:8,when he cold have helped himself with tithes |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 2:14pm On Aug 13, 2009 |
St Paul actually fended for himself and encouraged others to do same,take a look at the quotation below and the other underlisted verses. Acts 20:33-35 I ve never covetedany one's money or fine clothings .You know that these hands of mine have worked to pay my own way and I have even supplied the needs of those who were with me .And I have been a constant example of how uyou can help the poor by working hard.You should remember the words of the Lord Jesus: It is more blessed to give than to receive Similar quotes can be found in 1thes 2:9,2thes 3:7-10 Ask your pastors to go and fend for themselves if there are not contended with their freewill collections.There are not even asked to work for themselves. Bunch of greedy thieves |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 2:28pm On Aug 13, 2009 |
@ Chukwudi44, chukwudi44: You keep making me laugh all the more, while i tend to be making you cry, what a point, anyways, I'LL TURN YOUR GUN BACK AT YOU, please 1. Why don't you show me where in the NT the apostles fasted or asked people to fast after the death and ressurection of Jesus Yet why do we fast afterall since they never mentioned it after Jesus' death why then should we fast? you're very sensitive and its beginning to show on your post, believe me i know. calm down and see the scriptures unbiased. chukwudi44: 2. Check your bible ref. again, you misquoted because there aint nothing in 1Thes.3:8 that shows anything about paul nor his fending for himself, but to answer your question i'll try and type a passage in the scriptures and pls read it so that you know why Paul would not collect alms or anything and how its not a crime or act of stealing if MOGs do so: 1 Cor 9:1-18 The problem here is that ,just because you guys see how bad shepherds fake and exploit the sheep you come out open and condemn a standard, i often say to folks that "JUST BECAUSE A THING HAS BEEN EXPLOITED AND ABUSED, DOESNT MEAN IT BAD" the bad there is how the MOGs use it. period! Do you understand? God bless you where are all the ANTI-TITHERS come out! 1 Like |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 2:42pm On Aug 13, 2009 |
1. Why don't you show me where in the NT the apostles fasted or asked people to fast after the death and ressurection of Jesus [\quote] Has anybody said that everyone should fast every month or that fasting is very fundamental to salvation. 2 I actually meant 1thes: 3 7-10 11 If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ. 13 Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. What has this got to do with tithes ,don't people give freewill collections to support their pastors?,where does it say it must be 10%? Show me where the Apostles asked us to pay tithes(10%) or any where in the Bible where tithes was paid,monthly,daily ,weekly or with money. Tithe was never money and can never be money |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 2:47pm On Aug 13, 2009 |
chukwudi44: no no not again, whats up with ur emotions man? |
Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 3:17pm On Aug 13, 2009 |
@tonye t Why are you wasting your time on this tithe issue? It as already been clearly established on this forum several times that tithing is not a true christian doctrine a it was introduced to christianity as a result of greed on the part of preachers thru distortion of scriptures. |
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