Babrus. Thanks!

Babrus. Nice thread

to be sincere the building regulatory body should held responsible cos dey have fail in the cos of their duty because, if they are be doing their duty accordingly it would have be difficult to see quack pretending to be a professional handle construction. by doing this the client would no that building construction required professional not road side worker

It isnt always construction failures. Laymen tend to blame collapse on construction failure and use of poor quality materials. But we civil engineers know that most building collapse is as a result of lack of soil test data, no prior structural analysis and design done by a competent structural engr.

Ours is a country where we praise people who build blindly in the fraud of building by experience. Structural design prescibes the medicine needed to cure the disease of structural failure in the life span of the structure , this prescription states the exact size and arrangement of structural members, the grade of construction materials for the computed forces, bending and torsional moments the structure would undergo in its design life. The prescription is usually the most economic and safest solution and is contained in a document known as structural detailed drawing. It is with this document that the site engr is supposed to construct the building, any deviation without a written approval of the design engr makes the site engr culpable in the event of a structural failure. At least that is what is obtainable in saner climes but in ours you hear such rubbish like "na so we take build the other one and e dey stand" This is rubbish because no two structures are the same except they are an exact replica, sometimes a smaller structure is even more critical than a large one.

So if you ask me to rank the causes of building collapse, i would say

1, Absence of soil test data and prior structural design.
2. Lack of regulation and on ground supervision by COREN. COREN is abt the most toothless dog i know
3. Quackery or absence of a civil engr on project(most folks who parade themselves as engrs are not engrs, let alone civil engrs)
4. Deliberate use of poor quality materials inorder to make astronomical gains.
5. Incompetence(a good number of engrs are incompetent)
6. Hijacking of engineering projects by politicians, if you have worked in one of such you would know these guys dont care about doing things the right way.
7. Civil engineering is academically tasking and the real reading starts when you start practicing, unfortunately the pay isnt commiserate unless you are self employed. Even worst the society doesnt appreciate competence, often times we want competence and ridiculously cheap service, something only a quack can offer. Moreso, a good number of engrs were mentored by quacks and dont improve themselves or read, so the nations engineering capacity is largely a joke.

My advice to civil engr undergrads is dont fall for the lie that all those equations and theories you are being taught in school are meaningless and have no real life application. Every single one of them matters. When you graduate, you would wish you had known better, depending on if you are lucky to practice true engineering. Moreso work hard to bridge the gap between theories and preal life applications. We need you to, it is a mess out here. We need more competent engrs to help redeem the engineering sector.

Government needs to orientate the genaral public on how to executes project. E g Building team, follow due process. Many of them need to know it, they rather award their contract to artisans with no construction due process and general supervision. In summary nigerians like cheap things, with the mindset (To engage professionals will be too cost)

Very brilliant one einsteino

Seunolad1:
Government needs to orientate the genaral public on how to executes project. E g Building team, follow due process. Many of them need to know it, they rather award their contract to artisans with no construction due process and general supervision. In summary nigerians like cheap things, with the mindset (To engage professionals will be too cost)

Haha! Talking Government. You cannot give what you don't have.


Here's one thing with government. In order to reduce government spending, drive efficiency of delivery, decrease costs and recurring expenditures; government disbanded their design and construction agencies and migrated to the delivery of government projects via tender to the commercial sector.

This looks good in practice but places the government at disadvantage to be the example and model people ought to copy. Even government projects have their pitfalls because the same faulty system still operate.

opalu:
I am more comfortable looking for CAUSES rather than BLAMES. Because in most cases, those blamed are not responsible for the causes.

After taking a deep thought on most building collapse cases in Nigeria in recent years, I have ascertained and verified that the No1 Cause of Building collapse is GREED. No2 is NEGLIGENCE and No3: INCOMPETENCE.

GREED:
When the Client wants to build 3 storey structure on piles at Ifako with just 20M and he neglects those contractors who charged above N50m to choose one who quoted N19.5M. It's called greed. When the Contractor kicks out an artisan that charged 300k for casting to engage one that charged 100k, Greed. When you price down the quote to a level that the labour fees become peanuts, it attract only monkeys. Greed. When a developer sandfills the site this month and he insists that you start construction next month or 'I get another COREN Engineer to do it". It is called GREED. When a client who knows your reputation on Nairaland and in the industry withholds your outstanding payments and threatens to blackmail you if you do not stick to former quotes given before increase of fuel price, that is greed mixed with wickedness.

NEGLIGENCE:
Negligence is when apprentices from China will come to Nigeria as Experts and the professional bodies lack a Dora Akunyili and a Nuhu Ribadu who could make those dormant and toothless Bodies into Bull dogs to catch auch imported Quacks.
Negligence is when a client pays astronomical attention to plastering and does not give a damn whatever rubbish went into the concrete.
Negligence is when a Professional gets a huge contract and sends artisans to oversee what only he should check. Negligence is when people don't focus on the standards of materials but focus on only the prices. Etc

INCOMPETENCE :
When you give your job to someone who knows no jack about that type of work. In the hospital, you don't give an Ear infection to a Dentist to treat, also you don't give a brain surgery to a gynaecologist to treat. Because a gyna is incompetent to handle brain issues. And vice versa. It is inside Construction industry we see grandmothers of clients who claim they are experts since their husbands built house when they were in their twenties. It is in our own industry that everyone who can read and write is called an Engineer. Yet when buildings collapses, several people die at once and many are maimed for life. Everyone start to order you around as soon as they transfer a miserable 5mill into your account.
That is why I am so glad I decided to change from a contractor to a developer who also handles bridge and waterworks projects. Because on that frequencies hardly can you see the mix multitudes trying to tell you what they no nothing about.

Yeah! He is the one!








-----------
Great thinker out of wealth of experience!

n3xt:


Haha! Talking Government. You cannot give what you don't have.


Here's one thing with government. In order to reduce government spending, drive efficiency of delivery, decrease costs and recurring expenditures; government disbanded their design and construction agencies and migrated to the delivery of government projects via tender to the commercial sector.

This looks good in practice but places the government at disadvantage to be the example and model people ought to copy. Even government projects have their pitfalls because the same faulty system still operate.

corruPtion as spoilt everything, that belongs to urban and physical planing section.

@ Opalu, I think it's fair to discuss the actors alongside the causes so that everyone involved can take up active roles in curbing the menace.

What do you think?

n3xt:
When it comes to construction projects, all too often people start out with pretty cool 3D drawings and end up with shouting matches or - worse - avoidable lawsuits.

Project may be done in wood, steel and even concrete. But a “minor” mistake, like simple omission of important structural member, can turn it into a big crack or failure of some part of not all of the building - or lead to million-naira repair.

Everybody! Yes! Me, you, the government, the authorities and regulatory bodies, the professional bodies, and everybody has a fair share in this blame.

The Developers: whose primary duty is to engage certified professionals as consultants but failed to do so largely due to an unhealthy profit motivation.

Consultants: the so-called professionals/consultants whose duty is to advise their client on the various aspects of the project and to ensure that due process is followed during the entire project cycle but have failed to honestly advise clients on the pitfalls of shortcuts.

Government: through regulatory bodies charged with the duty of enforcing by-laws and ensuring that any development meets regulatory building standards. Weak technical capacity in local authorities; problems in the development approval process; corruption are all to blame for the problems we experience.

Contractor: who are expected to have the capacity and competence to undertake the specific tasks for the specified scope of works.

Clients: Yes, YOU! For aiding and abetting through wrong selection. You can't claim ignorance!

Manufacturers Association: For producing substandard building materials in order to stay afloat in ever competitive market. You know people prefer cheap and quantity over quality.

Who do you think should be blamed for this problem? Your inputs will be highly appreciated.

Recent study conducted have revealed that unqualified people carry out more than 70 percent of the development-related activities in Nigeria.


At the end of this discussion, we should be able to come up with solutions construction challenges and how to address them.

Too many words have been used, some meaning the same and others not having a direct responsibility. Its hard to compare a developer to a contractor.

A project developer usually has under its employ architects, engineers, builders, accountants, lawyers etc to the extent that the company is a stand alone project team. A developer may engage external professionals but still takes the entire liability as a client. A contractor could be employed by a developer or the developer could execute its own jobs as a contractor.

The government is usually not responsible unless its agents erred by aiding and abetting illegalities on the particular project. Example can be that of giving an approval for an illegal building. Ultimately, as long as there are laws guiding the industry, lack of enforcement cannot be an excuse for breaking the law just as ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law. Government should'nt be mentioned at all.

Talking about manufacturers, it is analogous to the arm robber and the reciever of stolen goods who are both criminals. So the manufacturer of a fake product and the user of the fake product are both culpable for the eventualities the product's failure. Even if the user can prove that the manufacturer/supplier didnt supply him what he ordered for, there are standard test for materials recieved so i wonder why the user should not be held for confirming his supplies. There are standard codes for testing cement and there is a shelf life for cement so no builder can make an excuse that he was supplied bad cement.

In construction, the client, consultant and the contractor and the main groups. All 3 have their project managers who in most cases does not carry direct liability on his person but his employer which is one of the three main groups. Note that a builder is the same as or a member of staff of a contractor or sub-contractor.

A project failure is investigated in 3 stages i.e approval, design, construction process/materials. At this stage, no one person or group is a suspect.

Approval for building permit and land use is checked at the relevant government agencies. This is to check if the client had fulfilled all laws regarding land use and also to have the approved building drawings which will be compared to as built drawings and existing/failed building. Any infringement here, the client is laible.

Design verification is carried out to make sure the design has passed through correct principles of design and passed minimum specifications. The liability is bored by the structural engineer whose name, signature and seal appears on the drawings. Depending on the type of contract, the engineer may be a staff of either the consultant or the contractor or maybe on his own.

Building use is also investigated to confirm if the approved land use has been adhered to. Building use is also checked to find out if the building has been used for other purposes that would cause the designed ultimate limit state is exceeded. For example if a high rise building was designed for residential purpose and it was converted to a high rise car parking lot, the change in loading pattern could be checked as a cause of failure. If building use is established to be different from the design use or land use, the client is 100% liable.

Lastly, the construction process and materials is tested at this stage. This is more complicated as it requires expertise of the investigating team. Portions of the structural members that have not been destroyed would be tested and material samples will be tested to determine their quality. This is where the builder usually gets caught and some or all responsibility may be shared by the client. The consultants usually easily get themselves out of this faults because we all know most times the client or the contractor have the motive of saving cost for themselves. The consultant has no cost liabilities on this stage so would always want things to be done right.

In the event of a developer, the chief executive and the structural engineer will face liabilities if found wanting.

adanny01:


Too many words have been used, some meaning the same and others not having a direct responsibility. Its hard to compare a developer to a contractor.

A project developer usually has under its employ architects, engineers, builders, accountants, lawyers etc to the extent that the company is a stand alone project team. A developer may engage external professionals but still takes the entire liability as a client. A contractor could be employed by a developer or the developer could execute its own jobs as a contractor.

The government is usually not responsible unless its agents erred by aiding and abetting illegalities on the particular project. Example can be that of giving an approval for an illegal building. Ultimately, as long as there are laws guiding the industry, lack of enforcement cannot be an excuse for breaking the law just as ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law. Government should'nt be mentioned at all.

Talking about manufacturers, it is anologous to the arm robber and the reciever of stolen goods who are both criminals. So the manufacturer of a fake product and the user of the fake product are both culpable for the eventualities the product's failure. Even if the user can prove that the manufacturer/supplier didnt supply him what he ordered for, there are standard test for materials recieved so i wonder why the user should not be held for confirming his supplies. There are standard codes for testing cement and there is a shelf life for cement so no builder can make an excuse that he was supplied bad cement.

In construction, the client, consultant and the contractor and the main groups. All 3 have their project managers who in most cases does not carry direct liability on his person but his employer which is one of the three main groups. Note that a builder is the same as or a member of staff of a contractor or sub-contractor.

A project failure is investigated in 3 stages i.e approval, design, construction process/materials. At this stage, no one person or group is a suspect.

Approval for building permit and land use is checked at the relevant government agencies. This is to check if the client had fulfilled all laws regarding land use and also to have the approved building drawings which will be compared to as built drawings and existing/failed building. Any infringement here, the client is laible.

Design verification is carried out to make sure the design has passed through correct principles of design and passed minimum specifications. The liability is bored by the structural engineer whose name, signature and seal appears on the drawings. Depending on the type of contract, the engineer may be a staff of either the consultant or the contractor or maybe on his own.

Building use is also investigated to confirm if the approved land use has been adhered to. Building use is also checked to find out if the building has been used for other purposes that would cause the designed ultimate limit state is exceeded. For example if a high rise building was designed for residential purpose and it was converted to a high rise car parking lot, the change in loading pattern could be checked as a cause of failure. If building use is established to be different from the design use or land use, the client is 100% liable.

Lastly, the construction process and materials is tested at this stage. This is more complicated as it requires expertise of the investigating team. Portions of the structural members that have not been destroyed would be tested and material samples will be tested to determine their quality. This is where the builder usually gets caught and some or all responsibility may be shared by the client. The consultants usually easily get themselves out of this faults because we all know most times the client or the contractor have the motive of saving cost for themselves. The consultant has no cost liabilities on this stage so would always want things to be done right.

In the event of a developer, the chief executive and the structural engineer will face liabilities if found wanting.

There's absolutely nothing more to add to this.


@AkinwunmiAmbode #ItesiwajuEko

einsteino:
It isnt always construction failures. Laymen tend to blame collapse on construction failure and use of poor quality materials. But we civil engineers know that most building collapse is as a result of lack of soil test data, no prior structural analysis and design done by a competent structural engr.

Ours is a country where we praise people who build blindly in the fraud of building by experience. Structural design prescibes the medicine needed to cure the disease of structural failure in the life span of the structure , this prescription states the exact size and arrangement of structural members, the grade of construction materials for the computed forces, bending and torsional moments the structure would undergo in its design life. The prescription is usually the most economic and safest solution and is contained in a document known as structural detailed drawing. It is with this document that the site engr is supposed to construct the building, any deviation without a written approval of the design engr makes the site engr culpable in the event of a structural failure. At least that is what is obtainable in saner climes but in ours you hear such rubbish like "na so we take build the other one and e dey stand" This is rubbish because no two structures are the same except they are an exact replica, sometimes a smaller structure is even more critical than a large one. Overseas buildings of over 100yrs old are still standing. It is embarrassing when nations build a hundred storey structure without any sad tale meanwhile in our nation a single storey building collapses, it makes us look like we are a joke.

So if you ask me to rank the causes of building collapse, i would say

1, Absence of soil test data and prior structural design.
2. Lack of regulation and on ground supervision by COREN. COREN is abt the most toothless dog i know
3. Quackery or absence of a civil engr on project(most folks who parade themselves as engrs are not engrs, let alone civil engrs)
4. Deliberate use of poor quality materials inorder to make astronomical gains.
5. Incompetence(a good number of engrs are incompetent)
6. Hijacking of engineering projects by politicians, if you have worked in one of such you would know these guys dont care about doing things the right way.
7. Civil engineering is academically tasking and the real reading starts when you start practicing, unfortunately the pay isnt commiserate unless you are self employed. Even worst the society doesnt appreciate competence, often times we want competence and ridiculously cheap service, something only a quack can offer. Moreso, a good number of engrs were mentored by quacks and dont improve themselves or read, so the nations engineering capacity is largely a joke.

My advice to civil engr undergrads is dont fall for the lie that all those equations and theories you are being taught in school are meaningless and have no real life application. Every single one of them matters. When you graduate, you would wish you had known better, depending on if you are lucky to practice true engineering. Moreso work hard to bridge the gap between theories and preal life applications. We need you to, it is a mess out here. We need more competent engrs to help redeem the engineering sector.

am presently working in a '' political construction company '' and it can be very frustrating. Someone who has no idea about engineering and construction is put over you as your boss simply because his bro holds one post or the other. Casting concrete that requires, say 300bags and when you are 130bags they start screaming that you are wasting cement. really frustrating my bro. Thought about resigning but no other options. .. I have to yell and defend any little work on site before good material is used and they all look at me like am a saboteur. If you are out there and you are an engineer, pls take this as my SAS.. My bearing capacity doesn't look like it can withstand this applied load.

mixratio:
am presently working in a '' political construction company '' and it can be very frustrating. Someone who has no idea about engineering and construction is put over you as your boss simply because his bro holds one post or the other. Casting concrete that requires, say 300bags and when you are 130bags they start screaming that you are wasting cement. really frustrating my bro. Thought about resigning but no other options. .. I have to yell and defend any little work on site before good material is used and they all look at me like am a saboteur. If you are out there and you are an engineer, pls take this as my SAS.. My bearing capacity doesn't look like it can withstand this applied load.

Tell us more about a political construction company.

From my little experience, I think the causes are many. Let me try and highlight some.

When a building collapse, most likely than not, it is because of structural problem(s).

In my own opinion, the structural engineer work is the most important in a building.

Many buildings don't even follow the recommendations of the structural engineer.

The other reason is adhering to concrete mix ratios of different structural members.

Like previously mentioned, can the land carry the intended live & dead load of the proposed building?

Was a soil test done and what type of foundation was recommended?

For most areas in Lagos where there are swamps / marshy lands, unless you are building a bungalow,
adequate geo technical soil analysis should be done.

The guys at the planning office, are they monitoring properly to look out for these anomalies?

Due to economic situation and many people want to do DIY, many people cut corners in terms of
materials they are supposed to use.

Columns that should have 16mm iron rods 12mm are used instead.

Are builders / engineers licensed or regulated properly, what happens when their work fails?

Everybody is to be blamed simply bcoz we are all corrupt.
When it is said to them, 'Do not corruption in the land', they say, 'We are only ones that put things right. Q2V11

Everybody is to be blamed simply bcoz we are all corrupt.
When it is said to them, 'Do not corruption in the land', they say, 'We are only ones that put things right. Q2V11

NAOBS

A timely thread and on the frontpage too - yay.

We should never underestimate the power of ineptness.

Even if we have the best drawn plans by a seasoned architect, soil test done, plan approved by an unshakable and unbribable approver, shyte could still hit the fan if there's an incompetent builder hired to carry out the job.

Some interesting reads are on this linked thread to show atrocities that are occurring right on this forum.

https://www.nairaland.com/3148782/how-select-good-builder

Please read this thread of many examples including a sinking house (pictured), storied houses with improper, misaligned and missing pillars. We can't blame the "guvmint" for that especially when the builder blindsided the client with a fake/forged approval on the building plan - FACT

Enjoy the read, it's eye opening. All materials and pictures came from Nairaland threads.

https://www.nairaland.com/3148782/how-select-good-builder

n3xt:


Tell us more about a political construction company.

a '' political construction company '' can be defined as that company that is mostly founded few weeks after election results are announced. In this type of company, you don't necessarily know the actual md/ceo neither do you know the members of the board of directors. Some one with a BSc in political science is most suitable as the project manager while the most powerful staff is the procurement manager and in most cases, he is the younger brother /cousin /nephew etc of one of the md/ceo. What ever he says is usually final, except if you have found yourself another job or you probably have enough in the bank that you don't need any salary that month.
As an engineer in this company, the BEME is the last document you must see. In fact, it is a taboo for you to see it. And you must watch how you talk if not, your matter would be tabled for discussion when the '' house '' meets and trust me you don't want that.
You are viewed as enemy number 1 because you alway have to shout and yell before a '' fair '' quantity of cement is used.
I hope I have been able to give a little insight to what a '' political construction company '' means.

More often than not, buildings fail not due to substandard building material but they fail due to substandard building engineering, because you wonder if its the sand, cement or reinforcement (Irons) or aggregate (stones) that is fake.

That said the issue of building failure with respect to who is responsible is not something that one entity can be totally responsible for.The different entities involved have their individual roles to promote structural integrity.

The government with appropriate enforced checks and regulation share a responsibility, In developed world the regulation is strict, to build a house or even repair or modify it, series of government approval and checks must be enforced.

The consultant for the project with appropriate professional advice to averting structural failure must share a responsibility.

The Contractor/Builder who has the responsibility in using appropriate engineering methods to build the structure.

The Client has a major responsibility for selecting a contractor and consultant to deliver a structurally safe building which should be done based on clear competence and safety antecedent of the contractor.

mixratio:
a '' political construction company '' can be defined as that company that is mostly founded few weeks after election results are announced. In this type of company, you don't necessarily know the actual md/ceo neither do you know the members of the board of directors. Some one with a BSc in political science is most suitable as the project manager while the most powerful staff is the procurement manager and in most cases, he is the younger brother /cousin /nephew etc of one of the md/ceo. What ever he says is usually final, except if you have found yourself another job or you probably have enough in the bank that you don't need any salary that month.
As an engineer in this company, the BEME is the last document you must see. In fact, it is a taboo for you to see it. And you must watch how you talk if not, your matter would be tabled for discussion when the '' house '' meets and trust me you don't want that.
You are viewed as enemy number 1 because you alway have to shout and yell before a '' fair '' quantity of cement is used.
I hope I have been able to give a little insight to what a '' political construction company '' means.

Political Construction Companies are the ones responsible for most of failed Federal Govt Borehole projects.

Further readings:

Architectural Designs and Problems that may occur
https://www.nairaland.com/3145483/architectural-designs-problems-may-occur

Building in Nigeria: Lessons learned
https://www.nairaland.com/1040620/building-nigeria-lessons-learned/1

Buy, Build or Renovate
https://www.nairaland.com/721174/build-buy-new-building-renovate

Interior Architecture in Nigeria is very Bad by Willow08
https://www.nairaland.com/1825339/interior-architecture-nigeria-very-bad

Beware! - Buying these lands may increase your construction cost astronimcally by Olumide4Christ
https://www.nairaland.com/2954604/beware-buying-these-lands-may

Ask All Your Building/Foundation Structural Questions by Opalu
https://www.nairaland.com/2406381/ask-all-questions-building-foundations

And more good topics on Nairaland Properties

n3xt:


Political Construction Companies are the ones responsible for most of failed Federal Govt Borehole projects.

I don't think it will be out of place if you include some roads in the north. Oops, maybe just some little more in the east. Yeah, that will be all. Ohhh, so sorry to bother you again, some more roads in the south and west. Let's cut the crap. Some roads almost every where.

You see, it baffles me when they embark on a 10km project and they don't complete it. I keep wondering why they didn't just build standard road even if it's 4km and leave the remaining 6km for another dispensation to continue.

Hmm nice and informative thread Oga @n3xt.
Oga @eisteino nailed the points head on.
Oga @mixratio I can quite relate with the political construction company (via a colleague's)

It is true many Engineers are mentored by quacks. @eisteino made a very valid point about rigorous academics involved in Civil Engineering and it begins with practice indeed.
I had got site engineer job for a site in Lekki, the client (Himself the Project Manager) was slightly eccentric and most inquisitive Electrical Engineer who took quite a few electives in Civil Engineering, studies and reads so much on construction on the Internet to prep quizes to daily bombard me and the Architect about the project WHY, WHAT IF/IS, WHY NOT, HOW IS/WILL, WHICH, WHEN.
This forced me to up my critical study like for academics to ensure no falling of hand. Answers he would get would usually form bases for the following day's quiz..
That site job was my ingress to Freelance, and I by far advanced myself professionally and intellectually than where I was coming from.
One Love brehs.

As we apportion blame, let's be fair and adjudicate properly.

Right on this forum is situation of a builder presenting a client with a building plan that has a fake approval.

Surely, the government is not to be blamed but individual greed.

This reminds me of the adage of not throwing stones when living in a glass house

kobenol:
Hmm nice and informative thread Oga @n3xt.
Oga @eisteino nailed the points head on.
Oga @mixratio I can quite relate with the political construction company (via a colleague's)

It is true many Engineers are mentored by quacks. @eisteino made a very valid point about rigorous academics involved in Civil Engineering and it begins with practice indeed.
I had got site engineer job for a site in Lekki, the client (Himself the Project Manager) was slightly eccentric and most inquisitive Electrical Engineer who took quite a few electives in Civil Engineering, studies and reads so much on construction on the Internet to prep quizes to daily bombard me and the Architect about the project WHY, WHAT IF/IS, WHY NOT, HOW IS/WILL, WHICH, WHEN.
This forced me to up my critical study like for academics to ensure no falling of hand. Answers he would get would usually form bases for the following day's quiz..
That site job was my ingress to Freelance, and I by far advanced myself professionally and intellectually than where I was coming from.
One Love brehs.

Good! You need to be constantly updated of new ways of getting things done.

The industry is constantly evolving and only the few who rise up to the challenge can stay relevant.