It's actually one of the arguments I posted earlier on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/2353987/three-arguments-gods-existence

The argument from consciousness: Consciousness is not a physical thing. It's also called awareness and that's not physical. It's not a physical thing that you can observe and measure but is the means by which you observe and measure. It's critical to my argument that consciousness be understood as something immaterial, which it actually is, going by its definition. If you think about it all knowledge stems from consciousness because to truly know anything you must be aware of it. You cannot know what you are not aware of.

Now if atheists are right then there should be no consciousness at all. In a purely physical world consciousness would be the anathema, something strange. But there is consciousness and therefore the atheist is not correct. Consciousness being immaterial cannot be explained by physical means. It did not evolve since evolution applies to physical beings. It does not spontaenously emerge because emergence typically deals with how complex PHYSICAL systems arise from simpler precursors. Atheism being materialistic in nature has nothing to offer to explain mental awareness. But the theist believing in an eternal conscious God has a means to explain consciousness. And that my friends wraps up my argument.

Cc thehomer Seun cloudgoddess Blaqsmith dalaman ichommy HardMirror johnydon22 onetrack joseph1013 Kay17 plaetton Davien ValentineMary lepasharon reallest freecocoa K9blunt Amusaopeyemi

Gbam

olakareem1:
Gbam

Thanks.

UyiIredia:
It's actually one of the arguments I posted earlier on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/2353987/three-arguments-gods-existence

The argument from consciousness: Consciousness is not a physical thing. It's also called awareness and that's not physical. It's not a physical thing that you can observe and measure but is the means by which you observe and measure. It's critical to my argument that consciousness be understood as something immaterial, which it actually is, going by its definition. If you think about it all knowledge stems from consciousness because to truly know anything you must be aware of it. You cannot know what you are not aware of.

Now if atheists are right then there should be no consciousness at all. In a purely physical world consciousness would be the anathema, something strange. But there is consciousness and therefore the atheist is not correct. Consciousness being immaterial cannot be explained by physical means. It did not evolve since evolution applies to physical beings. It does not spontaenously emerge because emergence typically deals with how complex PHYSICAL systems arise from simpler precursors. Atheism being materialistic in nature has nothing to offer to explain mental awareness. But the theist believing in an eternal conscious God has a means to explain consciousness. And that my friends wraps up my argument.

Cc thehomer Seun cloudgoddess Blaqsmith dalaman ichommy

Right.

**spreads mat**

Waiting for jonydonn, onetrack, Joseph1013, plaetton, davien, cloudgodess, valentinemary, hardmirror, kay17, pastoraio, Seun osewA,...remind me those other atheist please.

This thread is sure gonna be interesting

Consciouness is absolutely beyond explanation. Even if man evolved at what point did man become conscious? Did consciouness evolve too? Since it isnt tangible it could not have evolved and if there is no consciouness there can be no morality. Conciousness is the bedrock of morality.

.

Op when you say God do you mean the Christian God or every other gods there are

Rilwon:
**spreads mat**

Waiting for jonydonn, onetrack, Joseph1013, plaetton, davien, cloudgodess, valentinemary, hardmirror, kay17, pastoraio, Seun osewA,...remind me those other atheist please.

This thread is sure gonna be interesting

I hope it gets interesting.

4evergod2:
Consciouness is absolutely beyond explanation. Even if man evolved at what point did man become conscious? Did consciouness evolve too? Since it isnt tangible it could not have evolved and if there is no consciouness there can be no morality. Conciousness is the bedrock of morality.

I think you are mistaken conscience for consciousness.

Consciousness evolves.Take yourself , for example, when did you become conscious?
While in the womb or after you were born? At exactly what stage in your biological growth did you become conscious and self aware?

Would you say that your level of consciousness at 6months, 1 yr, 5 yrs , 8 yrs and now through adulthood have remained the same, or has evolved along with you biological development, environment, culture, education and social exposures ?

Everything evolves, my friend.
Change ( evolution) is the only CONSTANT in the universe.

vincentico:
Op when you say God do you mean the Christian God or every other gods there are

God as generally defined the creator of the universe.

plaetton:


I think you are mistaken conscience for consciousness.

Consciousness evolves.Take yourself , for example, when did you become conscious?
While in the womb or after you were born? At exactly what stage in your biological growth did you become conscious and self aware?

Would you say that your level of consciousness at 6months, 1 yr, 5 yrs , 8 yrs and now through adulthood have remained the same, or has evolved along with you biological development, environment, culture, education and social exposures ?

Everything evolves, my friend.
Change ( evolution) is the only CONSTANT in the universe.

If this is gonna be your answer then I can only shake my head in pity. Didn't you just read the OP. I said consciousness can't evolve since it's not physical. Evolution applies only to physical things.

4evergod2:
Consciouness is absolutely beyond explanation.

Correction Sir.
That you don't know something ,or do not understand something, does not mean that it is beyond explanation.

Consciousness is the agglomeration of interactive information.

For example, at the most rudimentary level, once a cell begins to divide, copy and store genetic information, the information grows, interact, until a critical mathematical threshold is attained, whereupon, the cell exhibits forms of rudimentary consciousness.

A market is another example where consciousness evolves entirely on its own, once the interactive components (buyers and sellers) reach an interactive threshold.

plaetton:


I think you are mistaken conscience for consciousness.

Consciousness evolves.Take yourself , for example, when did you become conscious?
While in the womb or after you were born? At exactly what stage in your biological growth did you become conscious and self aware?

Would you say that your level of consciousness at 6months, 1 yr, 5 yrs , 8 yrs and now through adulthood have remained the same, or has evolved along with you biological development, environment, culture, education and social exposures ?

Everything evolves, my friend.
Change ( evolution) is the only CONSTANT in the universe.

I think you are the one mistaken consciousness with awareness.

Consciousness is not what makds u know you are a boy or girl or that you can drive. Its way beyond that. Consciousness is your wake up moment in life. Example.....sperm meetd egg and implants and begins the process of becoming a baby. In that process at a point the heart begins to beat and we say the baby is alive but without consciousness the baby may well still assume he or she is not alive.

Example again.....science itself has repeatedly shown that there is consciousness even after someone has been certified as clinically dead. In these cases people who died and were brought back to life told those who brought them back all they saw them doing while they lay dead. It was like seeing everything from above or from a corner of the room

So how could they have accurately seen and known all this even in death?

You need to read up bro. Science is in the dark regarding consciousness.

UyiIredia:


God as generally defined the creator of the universe.

science says otherwise

if there truly were a God why does every fact and figure in contrast with the idea

why would He leave so much evidence for man to question his existence

consciousness is a 'complex physical system' in your turanci. stop confusing yourself. and even if what you assert had any weight, and it clearly doesn't, how you get from there to god!? is beyond me. you have an unholy alliance there of god of the gaps and false equivalences, among other things...

4evergod2:



I think you are the one mistaken consciousness with awareness.

Consciousness is not what makds u know you are a boy or girl or that you can drive. Its way beyond that. Consciousness is your wake up moment in life. Example.....sperm meetd egg and implants and begins the process of becoming a baby. In that process at a point the heart begins to beat and we say the baby is alive but without consciousness the baby may well still assume he or she is not alive.

Example again.....science itself has repeatedly shown that there is consciousness even after someone has been certified as clinically dead. In these cases people who died and were brought back to life told those who brought them back all they saw them doing while they lay dead. It was like seeing everything from above or from a corner of the room

So how could they have accurately seen and known all this even in death?

You need to read up bro. Science is in the dark regarding consciousness.

Beautiful.

wiegraf:
consciousness is a 'complex physical system' in your turanci. stop confusing yourself. and even if what you assert had any weight, and it clearly doesn't, how you get from there to god!? is beyond me. you have an unholy alliance there of god of the gaps and false equivalences, among other things...

Read and digest the OP and get back to me. It's obvious to me you want to stubbornly cling to your atheism.

vincentico:

science says otherwise

if there truly were a God why does every fact and figure in contrast with the idea

why would He leave so much evidence for man to question his existence

Are you trying to take me down another tangent. I think it's best you address the OP.

UyiIredia:


Are you trying to take me down another tangent. I think it's best you address the OP.

ok

UyiIredia:
It's actually one of the arguments I posted earlier on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/2353987/three-arguments-gods-existence

The argument from consciousness: Consciousness is not a physical thing. It's also called awareness and that's not physical. It's not a physical thing that you can observe and measure but is the means by which you observe and measure. It's critical to my argument that consciousness be understood as something immaterial, which it actually is, going by its definition. If you think about it all knowledge stems from consciousness because to truly know anything you must be aware of it. You cannot know what you are not aware of.

Now if atheists are right then there should be no consciousness at all. In a purely physical world consciousness would be the anathema, something strange. But there is consciousness and therefore the atheist is not correct. Consciousness being immaterial cannot be explained by physical means. It did not evolve since evolution applies to physical beings. It does not spontaenously emerge because emergence typically deals with how complex PHYSICAL systems arise from simpler precursors. Atheism being materialistic in nature has nothing to offer to explain mental awareness. But the theist believing in an eternal conscious God has a means to explain consciousness. And that my friends wraps up my argument. i

op this cannot possibly be the most powerful argument on the existence of God

vincentico:

op this cannot possibly be the most powerful argument on the existence of God

Why not?

honourhim:


Beautiful.

Most of these guys have a registered assumption that science is limitless and the scientists themselves have exclusively perfect knowledge of everything but even with all this knowledge they still fall ill and die young or old. They cannot even explain why we degenerate physically as the years go by and ultimately die.

Science only asks more questions.

I asked someone earlier today that if a supposedly super intelligent scientist needs to make use of multi million dollar equipment and further consult other scientists in order to study and understand the workings of a beetle which according to them evolved through savage stone aged times then it shows that whatever or however made those beetles is a million times smarter than science is because it sometimes takes science 50 years to understand the workings of one creature. Even the workings of man has not been fully understood ever since science began.

UyiIredia:


Read and digest the OP and get back to me. It's obvious to me you want to stubbornly cling to your atheism.

projection? confusion? but lemme help you small small. beginnig with- what in the world gives you the idea that consciousness isn't physical??

wiegraf:
projection? confusion? but lemme help you small small. beginnig with- what in the world gives you the idea that consciousness isn't physical??

consciousness /ˈkɒnʃəsnɪs/
noun
1. the state of being aware of and responsive to one's
surroundings.

Does that look like a physical thing? Physical things have extension in space by definition. Consciousness is not extended in space and so is not physical.

UyiIredia:
It's actually one of the arguments I posted earlier on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/2353987/three-arguments-gods-existence

The argument from consciousness: Consciousness is not a physical thing. It's also called awareness and that's not physical. It's not a physical thing that you can observe and measure but is the means by which you observe and measure. It's critical to my argument that consciousness be understood as something immaterial, which it actually is, going by its definition. If you think about it all knowledge stems from consciousness because to truly know anything you must be aware of it. You cannot know what you are not aware of.

Now if atheists are right then there should be no consciousness at all. In a purely physical world consciousness would be the anathema, something strange. But there is consciousness and therefore the atheist is not correct. Consciousness being immaterial cannot be explained by physical means. It did not evolve since evolution applies to physical beings. It does not spontaenously emerge because emergence typically deals with how complex PHYSICAL systems arise from simpler precursors. Atheism being materialistic in nature has nothing to offer to explain mental awareness. But the theist believing in an eternal conscious God has a means to explain consciousness. And that my friends wraps up my argument.

Cc thehomer Seun cloudgoddess Blaqsmith dalaman ichommy HardMirror johnydon22 onetrack joseph1013 Kay17 plaetton Davien ValentineMary lepasharon reallest freecocoa K9blunt Amusaopeyemi

Wrong.
There is no consciousness without self awareness.

It makes more sense that a self evolved organism would be self aware than a designed organism.

Consciousness is as simple as feeling hungry, you feel hungry and you are conscious of it. What makes you know you are hungry? They are called the hunger hormones leptin and ghrelin are responsible for triggering hunger. This means even if you are not hungry and this hormones are artificially injected into you, you can deceive your consciousness into thinking you are hungry.

What makes you happy? Hormones
What makes you feel sexual urges? Hormones

Interaction of different hormones with our brains are responsible for our day to day consciousnesses.

Our striving for survival prompts curiosity about our environment, man has evolved enough to absorb, investigate and understand his environment than other animals. This does not in any way make other animals less conscious of themselves.

Again, it is more plausible for an organism to be self conscious (without which there can't be survival of the fittest (evolution)) than a designed organism to be conscious. If your mobile phone evolved by itself, it would be conscious, if your car evolved, it would be conscious, else how would it have survived on it's own.

So consciousness actually supports evolution, it in no way invalidate evolution. And it in no way validates God.

HardMirror:

Wrong.
There is no consciousness without self awareness.

It makes more sense that a self evolved organism would be self aware than a designed organism.

Didn't you read the OP. I said consciousness can't evolve because it isn't physical. So no self-evolved organism should be conscious.

UyiIredia:


consciousness /ˈkɒnʃəsnɪs/
noun
1. the state of being aware of and responsive to one's
surroundings.

Does that look like a physical thing? Physical things have extension in space by definition. Consciousness is not extended in space and so is not physical.

Thanks for the obvious, but please stop with the gymnastics.

How exactly does this being that is aware come to be aware? By which means? What is this being composed of? Magical fairy dust?

ValentineMary:
Saying consciousness is not a physical thing is a wrong move bro. Let me try to break it down. What makes us conscious? our brain also, many terrestrial animals have a brain. The brain function with the reaction of neurons and neurochemicals. That's to say we constantly depend on physical matter for our brain to work. Also because we don't fully know how the cerebrum works does not mean it's a spiritual thing. That's a very wrong move.

Let's make it easier by looking at a simple cell. A cell is conscious as a result of pH, salinty, etc of the environment in contrast to it's internal environment. eg Ameoba would not enter a solution that is too salty. Why the receptors at the pseudopodium would detect it and send a signal to the nucleus. So it desist from that solution.

The error u made is that u first considered a highly complex organism we are yet to fully understand rather than taking a simpler organism we can actually study properly.

Do u still think consciousness is spiritual

No one is discounting the brain here. To be conscious you need the brain. Consciousness can be defined as a state of awareness of self and one's environs. As defined, that is not physical. So I find the argument that consciosuness is not immaterial to be disingenuous. I still think consciousness is spiritual. Yes.

UyiIredia:
Why not?

the theory about consciousness alone is one among myriad of other argument in existence

wiegraf:


Thanks for the obvious, but please stop with the gymnastics.

How exactly does this being that is aware come to be aware? By which means? What is this being composed of? Magical fairy dust?

God does it through our brains.