ADAM & EVE

Contrary to popular belief, Adam and Eve were expelled
from Eden not because they ate the forbidden fruit of the
tree of knowledge of good and evil, but in order to prevent
them from eating from the tree of life (both forbidden trees
are in Genesis 2:9) which would have made them eternal.
God doesn’t like competition! Here is the verse (Genesis
3:22-23): “And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us,
knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put
forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and
live for ever. [23] And the Lord God sent him out of the
paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was
taken.”

----------------------

JONAH WAS NOT SWALLOWED UP BY A WHALE


We all know the tale of Jonah and the whale(since we were kids)… but how well
do we know it?
Well enough to know that he wasn’t eaten by
a whale? It was no mammal that ate Jonah – it was a huge
fish – though its type is not mentioned. Of course, I am
presuming that any smart xtian reading this list would wanna question my assertion.

Well, here is the eye opener: the book of jonah recorded it was a fish(tho of an unmentioned type). This confusing "whale" term came from the book of Matthew 12 vs 40 where it was used with reference to that story. The bone of contention here is the translation errors involved.

Yet again, I know some religious fanatic reading this( the types that would refuse to fault the bible for anything) would still disagree, in an attempt to debate that both bible references mean the same thing.
Just chill, Sir/Ma, A whale is not a fish. #Q.E.D

----------------

THERE's NO SUCH THING AS RAPTURE

The “Rapture” is not in the Bible! Despite being believed by a
large number of christians (many of whom also believe
that only that , which is in the Bible can be true; Yea rite! "Rapture" aint in the bible.)

it was actually invented in the 1600s by one Cotton Mather –
otherwise famous for murdering women by strangling them
to death (by hanging) in the Salem witch trials. The term in
the Bible commonly mistranslated to the word “rapture”
actually comes from the Greek ἁρπάζω (harpazo) which
actually means “caught up” or “taken away” and it refers to
one person only (Philip).

----------------

P.S: Opposing views are welcomed. Atleast open your bible and read thoroughly(and understand in context) before coming forward with a debate.

I understood the 1st nd 2nd, but not the 3rd. Do you mean the word "rapture" or the meaning it's taken for?

zzzzy:
I understood the 1st nd 2nd, but not the 3rd. Do you mean the word "rapture" or the meaning it's taken for?

The word doesn't appear anywhere. This does not need a discerning mind to grasp. That's settled as long as u open the nearest bible...

Now, the controversial part.
Even what rapture is taken for, doesn't appear in the bible, people mistake the 2nd coming of christ for their interpretation of rapture. Where the Good ones are taken up(caught up), while the bad ones are left behind. Nah!!

Error404.

I can give u detailed proof with scriptural evidences(if u want) to try convince u(if u would be) that "rapture" is a misnomer spread by religious fanatics, we, unfortunately, call christians.


P.S: if u don't exactly av some patience(at dis time) to read and understand a sort of long, but time-worthy write-up detailing why what we understand as "rapture" aint in the bible. To save ourselves some productive time; Kindly don't Request it from me. Tnx

0ubenji:
ADAM & EVE

Contrary to popular belief, Adam and Eve were expelled
from Eden not because they ate the forbidden fruit of the
tree of knowledge of good and evil, but in order to prevent
them from eating from the tree of life (both forbidden trees
are in Genesis 2:9) which would have made them eternal.
God doesn’t like competition! Here is the verse (Genesis
3:22-23): “And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us,
knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put
forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and
live for ever. [23] And the Lord God sent him out of the
paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was
taken.”

That is Love in display!!!!! If Adam and Eve had taken from that tree after the fall, there would be NO possibility of Redemption! They would have sealed their fate, hence God Who loved them prevented that from happening! Perfect Love you cant resist!!!

----------------------

JONAH WAS NOT SWALLOWED UP BY A WHALE


We all know the tale of Jonah and the whale(since we were kids)… but how well
do we know it?
Well enough to know that he wasn’t eaten by
a whale? It was no mammal that ate Jonah – it was a huge
fish – though its type is not mentioned. Of course, I am
presuming that any smart xtian reading this list would wanna question my assertion.

Well, here is the eye opener: the book of jonah recorded it was a fish(tho of an unmentioned type). This confusing "whale" term came from the book of Matthew 12 vs 40 where it was used with reference to that story. The bone of contention here is the translation errors involved.

Yet again, I know some religious fanatic reading this( the types that would refuse to fault the bible for anything) would still disagree, in an attempt to debate that both bible references mean the same thing.
Just chill, Sir/Ma, A whale is not a fish. #Q.E.D

But it is an acquatic animal! Besides, this shows the original- http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/12-40.htm. Before you scream, remember they were translating,not transliterating.
----------------

THERE's NO SUCH THING AS RAPTURE

The “Rapture” is not in the Bible! Despite being believed by a
large number of christians (many of whom also believe
that only that , which is in the Bible can be true; Yea rite! "Rapture" aint in the bible.)

it was actually invented in the 1600s by one Cotton Mather –
otherwise famous for murdering women by strangling them
to death (by hanging) in the Salem witch trials. The term in
the Bible commonly mistranslated to the word “rapture”
actually comes from the Greek ἁρπάζω (harpazo) which
actually means “caught up” or “taken away” and it refers to
one person only (Philip).

----------------

P.S: Opposing views are welcomed. Atleast open your bible and read thoroughly(and understand in context) before coming forward with a debate.

Read 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-17 There the rapture is described. Call it any name, that is the description. Just like some call it communion, holy communion, sacrament,Lord's supper but still all refer to the same thing!

Scholar8200:
That is Love in display!!!!! If Adam and Eve had taken from that tree after the fall, there would be NO possibility of Redemption! They would have sealed their fate, hence God Who loved them prevented that from happening! Perfect Love you cant resist!!!

----------------------
But it is an acquatic animal! Besides, this shows the original- http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/12-40.htm. Before you scream, remember they were translating,not transliterating.
----------------
Read 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-17 There the rapture is described. Call it any name, that is the description. Just like some call it communion, holy communion, sacrament,Lord's supper but still all refer to the same thing!

I like u broda...it Interests me to see som1 come 4ward with an opposing view. It means we both or one of us will surely learn.
Erm, so do u mind I dish u spicy piece that supports my "no rapture"(as we think) theory in the bible?
It's obvious u only read the bible passage u quoted above, but u dint understand it in context.

P.S: if u don't exactly av some patience(at dis time) to read
and understand a sort of long, but time-worthy write-up
detailing why what we understand as "rapture" aint in the
bible. To save ourselves some productive time; Kindly don't
Request it from me. Tnx

0ubenji:

I like u broda...it Interests me to see som1 come 4ward with an opposing view. It means we both or one of us will surely learn.
Erm, so do u mind I dish u spicy piece that supports my "no rapture"(as we think) theory in the bible?
It's obvious u only read the bible passage u quoted above, but u dint understand it in context.

P.S: if u don't exactly av some patience(at dis time) to read
and understand a sort of long, but time-worthy write-up
detailing why what we understand as "rapture" aint in the
bible. To save ourselves some productive time; Kindly don't
Request it from me. Tnx

Just explain the text in 1Thessalonians 4 viz a viz other parallel verses from Scripture that appear to support your view. However, note that 1 Thess talks about meeting the Lord in the air.

Scholar8200:
Just explain the text in 1Thessalonians 4 viz a viz other parallel verses from Scripture that appear to support your view. However, note that 1 Thess talks about meeting the Lord in the air.

Th piece I'm talking bou also examined 1thessalonians 4 in detail emphasizing on something u missed in that passage. Thrz an angle of understandin to that passage that eludes most peeps. That's my point

0ubenji:

Th piece I'm talking bou also examined 1thessalonians 4 in detail emphasizing on something u missed in that passage. Thrz an angle of understandin to that passage that eludes most peeps. That's my point

Kindly point it out since you have read the article.

Scholar8200:
Kindly point it out since you have read the article.

Aii..the whole concept that the "good ones" are gonna be "raptured" and the "bad ones" left behind, to be subjected to whatever suffering that follows, is totally false.
Enuf videos, movies and sermon circulating this misunderstood concept made it viral.
That's it.. U don't av to be interested in the article. I understand. Bigotry is not easy to deal with, when religion is involved.

0ubenji:
ADAM & EVE

Contrary to popular belief, Adam and Eve were expelled
from Eden not because they ate the forbidden fruit of the
tree of knowledge of good and evil, but in order to prevent
them from eating from the tree of life (both forbidden trees
are in Genesis 2:9) which would have made them eternal.
God doesn’t like competition! Here is the verse (Genesis
3:22-23): “And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us,
knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put
forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and
live for ever. [23] And the Lord God sent him out of the
paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was
taken.”

----------------------

JONAH WAS NOT SWALLOWED UP BY A WHALE


We all know the tale of Jonah and the whale(since we were kids)… but how well
do we know it?
Well enough to know that he wasn’t eaten by
a whale? It was no mammal that ate Jonah – it was a huge
fish – though its type is not mentioned. Of course, I am
presuming that any smart xtian reading this list would wanna question my assertion.

Well, here is the eye opener: the book of jonah recorded it was a fish(tho of an unmentioned type). This confusing "whale" term came from the book of Matthew 12 vs 40 where it was used with reference to that story. The bone of contention here is the translation errors involved.

Yet again, I know some religious fanatic reading this( the types that would refuse to fault the bible for anything) would still disagree, in an attempt to debate that both bible references mean the same thing.
Just chill, Sir/Ma, A whale is not a fish. #Q.E.D

----------------

THERE's NO SUCH THING AS RAPTURE

The “Rapture” is not in the Bible! Despite being believed by a
large number of christians (many of whom also believe
that only that , which is in the Bible can be true; Yea rite! "Rapture" aint in the bible.)

it was actually invented in the 1600s by one Cotton Mather –
otherwise famous for murdering women by strangling them
to death (by hanging) in the Salem witch trials. The term in
the Bible commonly mistranslated to the word “rapture”
actually comes from the Greek ἁρπάζω (harpazo) which
actually means “caught up” or “taken away” and it refers to
one person only (Philip).

----------------

P.S: Opposing views are welcomed. Atleast open your bible and read thoroughly(and understand in context) before coming forward with a debate.

Everything I state here is not in confirmation with your "theories"

So Adam and Eve got sacked from Eden to prevent them from whatever....
how does that help me worship God more?

Jonah was shallower by a whale,dolphin, tilapia? How does help, I would to know like to know that too.

Rapture, shouldnt we be concerned about serving God and humanity to the best of our abilities? Jesus rarely talked about Judgement and rapture and the likes, he was preview to all the info from the beginning of the world, that should tell us all something.

Let's get our priorities right and stop creating more needless divisions

Maybe a it was a shark that ate Jonah. And after ripping Jonah to bits Yahweh was able to miraculously put the pieces back together after bringing them out of the sharks intestines. Praise be to Yahweh

0ubenji:

Aii..the whole concept that the "good ones" are gonna be "raptured" and the "bad ones" left behind, to be subjected to whatever suffering that follows, is totally false.
Enuf videos, movies and sermon circulating this misunderstood concept made it viral.
That's it.. U don't av to be interested in the article. I understand. Bigotry is not easy to deal with, when religion is involved.

Now consider this in the light of this and kindly show me what there underscores your position:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to [size=13pt]meet the Lord in the air[/size]: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thesalonians 4:16-18
This was to happen only to those in Christ.

Scholar8200:
Now consider this in the light of this and kindly show me what there underscores your position:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to [size=13pt]meet the Lord in the air[/size]: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thesalonians 4:16-18
This was to happen only to those in Christ.

This is the very strong point that we xtians have held onto NARROWLY. Don't get me wrong, I dint dispute the meaning of this passage, but most of us av refused to look at d big picture somehow. Despite the fact that u've refused to consider my perspective at all on this delicate but technical passage that talks bou the rapture.
However, there r 2 or more bible references that are akin to this. Kindly quote them here(if u can) and make some comparison(in context) to 1 Thesalonians 4:16-18 that u pasted above. We r slowly attempting a close examination of the big picture now.

#YouAreEntitled2UrOpinion

0ubenji:

This is the very strong point that we xtians have held onto NARROWLY. Don't get me wrong, I dint dispute the meaning of this passage, but most of us av refused to look at d big picture somehow.

What meaning are you not disputing?

Despite the fact that u've refused to consider my perspective at all on this delicate but technical passage that talks bou the rapture.
However, there r 2 or more bible references that are akin to this. Kindly quote them here(if u can) and make some comparison(in context) to 1 Thesalonians 4:16-18 that u pasted above. We r slowly attempting a close examination of the big picture now.

I cannot read your mind, you quote the passages you are referring to!

#YouAreEntitled2UrOpinion

Rather, I have quoted a Bible passage that is clear enough, not opinions!

Scholar8200:
What meaning are you not disputing?

I cannot read your mind, you quote the passages you are referring to!


Rather, I have quoted a Bible passage that is clear enough, not opinions!

Oh..well..just what I needed to know: you aint well read on the concept of "rapture"..u merely presented a cliched bible reference and that's it.
I dint tell u to read my mind, being well read on a subject as vast as dis is evidential when u cud atleast provide anoda scriptural reference either similar in meaning or that complements it. If I tell u adultery is not a sin now, you'll surely bombard me with countless biblical references to tackle me. How is it u come to a debate with a single point(that even ur opponent knows), which U tend to over-emphasize til it is stripped-off of relevant meaning.
Aii..dat aside...I'd lend a helping hand, sinx that 1Thessalonians 4 is wah u got.
Luke 17:22-37.
Read(and understand) that and decipher whether it talks bou the rapture or not., before I proceed.

0ubenji:

Oh..well..just what I needed to know: you aint well read on the concept of "rapture"..u merely presented a cliched bible reference and that's it.
I dint tell u to read my mind, being well read on a subject as vast as dis is evidential when u cud atleast provide anoda scriptural reference either similar in meaning or that complements it. If I tell u adultery is not a sin now, you'll surely bombard me with countless biblical references to tackle me. How is it u come to a debate with a single point(that even ur opponent knows), which U tend to over-emphasize til it is stripped-off of relevant meaning.
Aii..dat aside...I'd lend a helping hand, sinx that 1Thessalonians 4 is wah u got.
Luke 17:22-37.
Read(and understand) that and decipher whether it talks bou the rapture or not., before I proceed.

Young man present your case and stop blabbing. U opened a thread and it's left for you to give details of the points you raised.

0ubenji:

Oh..well..just what I needed to know: you aint well read on the concept of "rapture"..u merely presented a cliched bible reference and that's it.
I dint tell u to read my mind, being well read on a subject as vast as dis is evidential when u cud atleast provide anoda scriptural reference either similar in meaning or that complements it. If I tell u adultery is not a sin now, you'll surely bombard me with countless biblical references to tackle me. How is it u come to a debate with a single point(that even ur opponent knows), which U tend to over-emphasize til it is stripped-off of relevant meaning.
Aii..dat aside...I'd lend a helping hand, sinx that 1Thessalonians 4 is wah u got.
Luke 17:22-37.
Read(and understand) that and decipher whether it talks bou the rapture or not., before I proceed.

Still waiting for your explanation on 1 Thessalonian 4:13-17!

honourhim:


Young man present your case and stop blabbing. U opened a thread and it's left for you to give details of the points you raised.

I wonder!

The “Rapture” being referred to in a passage in 1Thessalonians 4:16-18, where Christians are “caught up” in the
clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” have been largely misconcieved.

Many Christians believe,
and promote, that this being “caught
up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation
sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish(as we've always assumed),
meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him
to Heaven to await the end of time.
But notice, in 1Thessalonians 4:15, Paul says that “…we who are alive,
who are left,” shall be caught up.
This is a very important
point to stress to rapture enthusiasts.
Those who are “left”
get caught up to meet the Lord.

Keep that in mind as we look
at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The "rapture" concept got their ideology from a passage in
Luke 17:22-37(the very one scholar8200 refused to read up for understandable reasons), and a similar passage in Matthew 24:29-44, which
"strongly compares" the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and
the days of Lot.

Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the
days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man…[they
ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until
the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the
coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field,
one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill,
one is taken one is left.”

----------------------------

“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right?

Jesus takes
the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians!

That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages..

---------------

Well, there are however. Two problems with these "rapture” interpretation:

First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’
coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot.
Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was
left?

Noah and his family — "the good guys". The bad guys
were taken('caught up' in the flood) and the good guys were left behind!

-------------

After Sodom
and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left?

Lot and his
daughters — "the good guys". The bad guys were taken('caught up' in the fire) and
the good guys were left behind!.

------------------

The second problem with the dogmatic “rapture” interpretation,
has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4
says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air.

-----------------

You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left
behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth.

Again, when
you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and
Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are
the ones left behind to meet Jesus.

------------------

And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in
Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal.

Matthew
13:39-43, “…and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed]
is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the
reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and
burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son
of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His
kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers(the bad guys), and throw them
into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their
teeth. Then the righteous(the ones that remain after the bad ones have been taken and dealt with) will shine like the sun in the
kingdom of their Father.”

------------------------------

So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as
it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the
Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the
age(which we have translated to the rapture ideology, as evident in these sermon and xtian films).

The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are
the evildoers. The angels will take them and toss them
into the furnace of fire(somewhere else). So, the "rapture ideology" got it
wrong. The ones taken are not the good
guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind
are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet
Jesus in the air(to go nowhere actually) at His Second Coming, when He will bring all
of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new
Heaven and a new earth.

Ii is only when the bad guys have been taken away unto judgement, then the good guys left behind will be caught up with the lord upon arrival. There's nothing like "the good guys will vanish or get caught up, then the bad guys remain to suffer whatever stuff with the destruction of the earth". That is a misnomer, which in itself nullifies the ideology of rapture, to say, it's not anywhere in the bible.



In other words, there will be no Rapture like the ones you have always believed. The rapture ideology teach the
opposite of what Scripture actually says.


Cc: Scholar8200, honourhim, solite

--------------------------

You both should educate urselves by visiting the link below which has various bible translations of the Luke 17:22-37 and Matthew 24:29-44 where the "rapture" ideology actually came from. 1thessalonians 4:16-18 only buttress the idea, emphasizing on who are "left behind" after the judgment of the bad guys have taken place. Toggle different translations as u please.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17:22-37

0ubenji:
The “Rapture” being referred to in a passage in 1Thessalonians 4:16-18, where Christians are “caught up” in the
clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” have been largely misconcieved.

Many Christians believe,
and promote, that this being “caught
up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation
sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish(as we've always assumed),
meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him
to Heaven to await the end of time.
But notice, in 1Thessalonians 4:15, Paul says that “…we who are alive,
who are left,” shall be caught up.
This is a very important
point to stress to rapture enthusiasts.
Those who are “left”
get caught up to meet the Lord.

Keep that in mind as we look
at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The "rapture" concept got their ideology from a passage in
Luke 17:22-37(the very one scholar8200 refused to read up for understandable reasons), and a similar passage in Matthew 24:29-44, which
"strongly compares" the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and
the days of Lot.

Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the
days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man…[they
ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until
the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the
coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field,
one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill,
one is taken one is left.”

----------------------------

“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right?

Jesus takes
the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians!

That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages..

---------------

Well, there are however. Two problems with these "rapture” interpretation:

First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’
coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot.
Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was
left?

Noah and his family — "the good guys". The bad guys
were taken('caught up' in the flood) and the good guys were left behind!

-------------

After Sodom
and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left?

Lot and his
daughters — "the good guys". The bad guys were taken('caught up' in the fire) and
the good guys were left behind!.

------------------

The second problem with the dogmatic “rapture” interpretation,
has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4
says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air.

-----------------

You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left
behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth.

Again, when
you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and
Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are
the ones left behind to meet Jesus.

------------------

And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in
Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal.

Matthew
13:39-43, “…and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed]
is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the
reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and
burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son
of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His
kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers(the bad guys), and throw them
into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their
teeth. Then the righteous(the ones that remain after the bad ones have been taken and dealt with) will shine like the sun in the
kingdom of their Father.”

------------------------------

So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as
it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the
Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the
age(which we have translated to the rapture ideology, as evident in these sermon and xtian films).

The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are
the evildoers. The angels will take them and toss them
into the furnace of fire(somewhere else). So, the "rapture ideology" got it
wrong. The ones taken are not the good
guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind
are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet
Jesus in the air(to go nowhere actually) at His Second Coming, when He will bring all
of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new
Heaven and a new earth.

Ii is only when the bad guys have been taken away unto judgement, then the good guys left behind will be caught up with the lord upon arrival. There's nothing like "the good guys will vanish or get caught up, then the bad guys remain to suffer whatever stuff with the destruction of the earth". That is a misnomer, which in itself nullifies the ideology of rapture, to say, it's not anywhere in the bible.



In other words, there will be no Rapture like the ones you have always believed. The rapture ideology teach the
opposite of what Scripture actually says.


Cc: Scholar8200, honourhim

--------------------------

You both should educate urselves by visiting the link below which has various bible translations of the Luke 17:22-37 and Matthew 24:29-44 where the "rapture" ideology actually came from. 1thessalonians 4:16-18 only buttress the idea, emphasizing on who are "left behind" after the judgment of the bad guys have taken place. Toggle different translations as u please.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17:22-37

I think the major issue here is how you interpret ''caught up" , l would love you to explain your interpretation of the term better, if you don't mind.

kilo4sure:

I think the major issue here is how you interpret ''caught up" , l would love you to explain your interpretation of the term better, if you don't mind.

Bro...there's no issue of interpretation conflicts here..I strictly explained within the boundaries of context..it's the good ones that are left behind while the bad ones are taken away first... The problem here is the erroneous interpretation of "caught-up" for the "rapture" ideology. They are never the same.
The good ones being "caught up" in the air with the lord HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RAPTURE

-----------

The term in
the Bible commonly mistranslated to the word “rapture”
actually comes from the Greek ἁρπάζω (harpazo) which
actually means “caught up” or “taken away”

-------------

So, sinx they interchange "caught-up" with rapture, they assume that "a non-existent prophecy or situation" where the good ones are taken-off, leavin the bad guys behind to be destroyed with the earth is "rapture"...
Ironically, the bible, as I've proven it(which u quoted) never painted such scenario. The bone of contention here is a gross misconception of 1thessalonians 4:16-18. They good ones being with the lord in the air IS NOT RAPTURE. Sinx, they assume, the good ones being in the air have the bad guys left behind, hoping they cud join dem up above. Nah!

Kindly click the link to read these bible passages, well translated in different versions.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17:22-37
The online bible site indicated who'll be taken Away and who'll remain.
This sort of debate requires an individual to consult different translations of a text to get a bigger picture of the intended Meaning of a passage.

-------------

The people that invented this false "rapture" doctrine(that's a story for another day)..took the mistranslation when it was used in the context of being applied to philip being "caught away"(or raptured as they erroneously put it).
The sold out idea of rapture being originated from philips incident was that the saints(just as philip was) would be suddenly taken-way to heaven.
The strange issue here is, philip was actually not taken into heaven. He vanished from there, only to appear somehwhere else.
Kindly read Acts 8:39-40

Cc: solite

0ubenji:
The “Rapture” being referred to in a passage in 1Thessalonians 4:16-18, where Christians are “caught up” in the
clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” have been largely misconcieved.

Many Christians believe,
and promote, that this being “caught
up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation
sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish(as we've always assumed),
meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him
to Heaven to await the end of time.
But notice, in 1Thessalonians 4:15, Paul says that “…we who are alive,
who are left,” shall be caught up.
This is a very important
point to stress to rapture enthusiasts.
Those who are “left”
get caught up to meet the Lord.

Keep that in mind as we look
at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The "rapture" concept got their ideology from a passage in
Luke 17:22-37( the very one scholar8200 refused to read up for understandable reason)
, and a similar passage in Matthew 24:29-44, which
"strongly compares" the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and
the days of Lot.

unfortunate assumption.

Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the
days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man…[they
ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until
the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the
coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field,
one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill,
one is taken one is left.”

----------------------------

“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right?

Jesus takes
the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians!

That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages..

---------------

Well, there are however. Two problems with these "rapture” interpretation:

First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’
coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot.
Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was
left?

Noah and his family — "the good guys". The bad guys
were taken('caught up' in the flood) and the good guys were left behind!

The comparison to Noah and Lot is a reference to the sudden-ness of the destruction! Else, How about Noah? good ones taken and bad ones left?
-------------

After Sodom
and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left?

Lot and his
daughters — "the good guys". The bad guys were taken('caught up' in the fire) and
the good guys were left behind!.

And Noah?
------------------

The second problem with the dogmatic “rapture” interpretation,
has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4
says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air.

-----------------

You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left
behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth.

I dont find the word left in 1 Thessalonians 4! I hope it is not an attempt to confuse the readers as to which group exactly you are referring to?

Again, when
you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and
Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are
the ones left behind to meet Jesus.

Again I would exhort that the reader realises that Matthew 24 was an answer to 3 questions (Matthew 24:3)! Parallel verses and prophecies helps us know which is for which. Hence it will be wrong to attribute all the answers there to only one question!
------------------

And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in
Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal.

Matthew
13:39-43, “…and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed]
is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the
reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and
burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son
of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His
kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers(the bad guys), and throw them
into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their
teeth. Then the righteous(the ones that remain after the bad ones have been taken and dealt with) will shine like the sun in the
kingdom of their Father.”

This is a description of Revelation 19&20 when the false prophet, beast and armies and finally the post-Millenial reign world would be destroyed. Nothing here shows or suggests that those that will meet the Lord in the air are the sinners!



------------------------------

So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as
it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the
Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the
age(which we have translated to the rapture ideology, as evident in these sermon and xtian films).

Matthew 25 shows how the wise virgins were taken and the others left behind, when the Bridegroom came! Not the other way round! Besides, we know Jesus'Second coming will be to reign as a King with the Saints, not as a Bride Groom( Revelation 19:7-9 shows that there will be a Marriage Supper of the Lamb and this has NO CONNECTION with the Millenial reign!) meaning Matthew 25 depicts the Rapture!

The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are
the evildoers. The angels will take them and toss them
into the furnace of fire(somewhere else). So, the "rapture ideology" got it
wrong. The ones taken are not the good
guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind
are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet
Jesus in the air(to go nowhere actually) at His Second Coming, when He will bring all
of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new
Heaven and a new earth.

Here, folks, is a mixture that is extra-scriptural!!!

This is the scenario you are painting:
Jesus comes, sinners get caught up and tossed into hell!(who then are the ones satan deceives after millenial reign?)
Saints watch on (hands on head!) and suddenly get caught up too!!!(
Saints that are caught up and Jesus now descend together!!(to reign after 1000 years then why did Paul say the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death?)

This is wrong!!!!!!!!

First, realise that the Second Coming would bring deliverance to Israel from the antichrist and then Jesus and the saints reign. However, even during this time, there will still be people that are sinners (Zechariah 14:16). They are the ones that the devil, after he is loosed (Revelation 20) will go and deceive for the battle of Gog and Magog!

Ii is only when the bad guys have been taken away unto judgement, then the good guys left behind will be caught up with the lord upon arrival.

Caught up on arrival, not in the air? Then just who does satan deceive after the Millenial reign? Revelation 20:7-10)

There's nothing like "the good guys will vanish or get caught up, then the bad guys remain to suffer whatever stuff with the destruction of the earth". That is a misnomer, which in itself nullifies the ideology of rapture, to say, it's not anywhere in the bible.



In other words, there will be no Rapture like the ones you have always believed. The rapture ideology teach the
opposite of what Scripture actually says.


Cc: Scholar8200, honourhim

I perceive you dont understand that Israel has not been eternally cast off and that they have their part in eschatology and many prophecies that will still be fulfilled, prophecies and promises that do not concern the Church in their substance! read Daniel 7-12, Zechariah 12-14 and Revelations 19-22
--------------------------

You both should educate urselves by visiting the link below which has various bible translations of the Luke 17:22-37 and Matthew 24:29-44 where the "rapture" ideology actually came from. 1thessalonians 4:16-18 only buttress the idea, emphasizing on who are "left behind" after the judgment of the bad guys have taken place. Toggle different translations as u please.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17:22-37

I prefer a cross examination of Scripture with Scripture, promise and prophecies! Not a straining at words to extract self-serving albeit scripture-contradicting meanings!

Besides, Bible tells us Enoch was translated that he should not see death.

The word translate:

3346. metatithemi ►
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
carry over, change, translate
From meta and tithemi; to transfer, i.e. (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides

Similar to Elijah!

Before God destroyed the World, Noah and his were taken in a figure; before Sodom was destroyed, Lot and his were taken in a figure.

After His resurrection, Jesus ascended visibly, hence no true believer (even the dead) will be denied this hope, just as none will be denied His resurrection!

God's wrath will be poured out on the earth and its inhabitants during the GT. Since we (the Church) are delivered from wrath through Him, would not the Judge of the Earth do right?

Scholar8200:
I dont find the word left in 1 Thessalonians 4! I hope it is not
an attempt to confuse the readers as to which group exactly
you are referring to?

Lolz...yet again u just showed ur shallow understanding of subject matter...u don't just debate scriptural meanings and What they imply with one translation of the bible. That makes u reek of bigotry or ignorance.
If u're looking for "left"...go read the passage in ESV(english Standard Version), NET(new english translation) and ASV(American Standard Versions) bible Translations to mention a few. #CaseClosed

Scholar8200:
I prefer a cross examination of Scripture with Scripture,
promise and prophecies! Not a straining at words to extract
self-serving albeit scripture-contradicting meanings!

I gave u a detailed comparison of three scriptural references which were indeed prophecies and promises, u're stil askin for cross-examination of scripture with scripture, promise and prophecies..
Kindly open ur dictionary to check the meaning of words b4 u use them..
The funny thing is that u r yet to gimme any scriptural cross examination, u merely quoting various scriptures haphazardly to backup ur claims on rapture. U really have a loose perspective on this.
Not to worry, I'll help separate the RELEVANT seeds from the shaft.

Scholar8200:
Caught up on arrival, not in the air? Then just who does
satan deceive after the Millenial reign? Revelation 20:7-10)

Yet again, u quoted a scriptural reference u got no understanding of.
Sir, that passage actually talks bou the defeat of satan. I fink I'll not give u a cheap and direct answer on this. It'll come in form of a rhetoric
U asked me. Who does satan decieve after the Millenial reign"...I guess u don't want to assume it's the saints satan decieved.
Well, verse 9 tells us how satan was defeated, so on whose behalf was satan defeated by God?
The same sinners that he must have left on earth to suffer chey?

Scholar8200:
This is a description of Revelation 19&20 when the false
prophet, beast and armies and finally the post-Millenial
reign world would be destroyed. Nothing here shows or
suggests that those that will meet the Lord in the air are the
sinners!

I never implied directly or indirectly that those that wud meet the lord are sinners. U can quote me on any part of my writing where I said so..
My point is "getting caught up". To meet the lord has nothing to do with ur idea of rapture.
Obviously u'e been speaking but not listening sinx. #Strange

This is why l get bored with eschatology.

0ubenji:

ADAM & EVE

Contrary to popular belief, Adam and Eve were expelled
from Eden not because they ate the forbidden fruit of the
tree of knowledge of good and evil, but in order to prevent
them from eating from the tree of life (both forbidden trees
are in Genesis 2:9) which would have made them eternal.
God doesn’t like competition! Here is the verse (Genesis
3:22-23): “And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us,
knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put
forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and
live for ever. [23] And the Lord God sent him out of the
paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was
taken.”

----------------------

You started well but your conclusion is wrong. Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden NOT because God did not want a competition. No!

They were expelled so that they may NOT become ETERNAL Sinners and Unredeemable Souls like the fallen Angels who left their first estate.

A human being is a Spirit, hence he is Eternal NY nature. A man need to Die to be rebirthed.




----------------

0ubenji:


THERE's NO SUCH THING AS RAPTURE

The “Rapture” is not in the Bible! Despite being believed by a
large number of christians (many of whom also believe
that only that , which is in the Bible can be true; Yea rite! "Rapture" aint in the bible.)

it was actually invented in the 1600s by one Cotton Mather –
otherwise famous for murdering women by strangling them
to death (by hanging) in the Salem witch trials. The term in
the Bible commonly mistranslated to the word “rapture”
actually comes from the Greek ἁρπάζω (harpazo) which
actually means “caught up” or “taken away” and it refers to
one person only (Philip).

----------------

P.S: Opposing views are welcomed. Atleast open your bible and read thoroughly(and understand in context) before coming forward with a debate.

Scholar8200:
Besides, Bible tells us Enoch was translated that he should
not see death.
The word translate:
3346. metatithemi ►
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
carry over, change, translate
From meta and tithemi; to transfer, i.e. (literally)
transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change
sides
Similar to Elijah!
Before God destroyed the World, Noah and his were taken
in a figure; before Sodom was destroyed, Lot and his were
taken in a figure.
After His resurrection, Jesus ascended visibly, hence no true
believer (even the dead) will be denied this hope, just as
none will be denied His resurrection!
God's wrath will be poured out on the earth and its
inhabitants during the GT. Since we (the Church) are
delivered from wrath through Him, would not the Judge of
the Earth do right?

Hold on, sir, b4 u start doin copy and paste of some orthodox theological junk u don't understand. Do u intend to confuse readers with these mumbo-jumbo?
Let the audience learn in layman's terms. All these highly digressive perspectives of urs can't elude me. Keep that in Mind
Now, to the subject matter.
1. Enoch's case has nothing to do with rapture...in view of the fact that ur idea of rapture is the trasnport of saints into another state. U seem to forget Enoch wasn't the only saint on earth as at when he was taken up into heaven. So are u telling me there's "selective rapture" ?...lolz
2. Abeg, give a scriptural reference that implies the transfiguration of Noah and all other saved creatures b4 the flood and another evidence in the case of lot being taken into a figure.

P.S: Counter my points in context with or without scriptural backings(as u please), but don't come pasting stuffs here u obviously dint read Up b4 pressing the SUBMIT button. Remember, I know how to paste too.

0ubenji:

ADAM & EVE

Contrary to popular belief, Adam and Eve were expelled
from Eden not because they ate the forbidden fruit of the
tree of knowledge of good and evil, but in order to prevent
them from eating from the tree of life (both forbidden trees
are in Genesis 2:9) which would have made them eternal.
God doesn’t like competition! Here is the verse (Genesis
3:22-23): “And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us,
knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put
forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and
live for ever. [23] And the Lord God sent him out of the
paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was
taken.”

----------------------

You started well but your conclusion is wrong. Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden NOT because God did not want a competition. No!

They were expelled so that they may NOT become ETERNAL Sinners and Unredeemable Souls like the fallen Angels who left their first estate.

A human being is a Spirit, hence he is Eternal BY nature. A man need to Die to be rebirthed.




----------------

0ubenji:


THERE's NO SUCH THING AS RAPTURE

The “Rapture” is not in the Bible! Despite being believed by a
large number of christians (many of whom also believe
that only that , which is in the Bible can be true; Yea rite! "Rapture" aint in the bible.)

it was actually invented in the 1600s by one Cotton Mather –
otherwise famous for murdering women by strangling them
to death (by hanging) in the Salem witch trials. The term in
the Bible commonly mistranslated to the word “rapture”
actually comes from the Greek ἁρπάζω (harpazo) which
actually means “caught up” or “taken away” and it refers to
one person only (Philip).

----------------

P.S: Opposing views are welcomed. Atleast open your bible and read thoroughly(and understand in context) before coming forward with a debate.

I guess you mean that THERE IS NO WORD or TEXT as rapture in the Bible. The word RAPTURE describes the words “caught up” or “taken away” . So what?

shadeyinka:



You started well but your conclusion is wrong. Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden NOT because God did not want a competition. No!

They were expelled so that they may NOT become ETERNAL Sinners and Unredeemable Souls like the fallen Angels who left their first estate.

A human being is a Spirit, hence he is Eternal NY nature. A man need to Die to be rebirthed.




----------------

"Behold adam become as one of
us,
knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he
put
forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat,
and
live for ever"


If that passage don't come across to u as some sort of avoidance of competition, then I'd leave u to ur opinion. You should ask urself why "satan" who's in competition with God is the same person God warns Adam and Eve against, so as not to take upon themselves the sort of wisdom he promises dem if dey cud go against God's will.

Hmmmn...human being; a spirit, then needs to die again to be rebirthed, yet u say he is ETERNAL by nature. You are about to confuse urself with delicate terms sir.