This is the verse.

I have created the jinn and humankind only that they might serve Me.
Qur'an 51.56

Who is being emotional?  Christians?  You have no clue.  Christianity gives you all the logic in the world and the basis of salvation.  It traces the fall, the consequences, the remedy, the solution and then salvation.  Every action is validated by other scriptures with a thread that links it all up from genesis to Revelation.  
Islam is more of the emotional.  Emotion against what you perceive aint right in Christianity.  You assume if chirtianity is wrong, then Islam must be the right one.  Though you find no plan of salvation in the Qu'ran, yet you'd rather gamble with your life based on one man's visions and revelations.  I wonder how many people saw Angel Gabriel appear and talk to Mohammed.  "In the mouth of two or 3 witnesse, let every word be established" is what the Bible says.

Logical:

Yeah its logical, because I am afraid of hell, which justifies my reason for belief Atleast its better than been emotional? Dont you think?

¤yaaaaaawwwn!!¤

Sorry, I don't mean to be discourteous, but you're going round in circles. Your logic is weak and has added nothing to the discussion so far. If you earlier taunted the idea of going to hell, how come that same ridicule has become the raison d'etre of your believing in God? You've stayed long on the PC for the day - do you want to take a nap and come back refreshed? Enjoy.

Divine laws represent guidance for humankind in all walks of life. They define right and wrong for them and offer human beings a complete system governing all of their affairs. The Creator alone knows best what is beneficial for His creation and what is not. The divine laws command and prohibit various acts and substances to protect the human spirit, the human body and human society from harm. In order for human beings to fulfill their potential by living righteous lives, they need to worship God through obedience to His commandments.


Someone died for me so I worship God is not emotional? I worship God because I don't want to face the consequence of disobeying him is that which is emotional and not logical rather? Strange I must say

Worshipping God because of fear of going to hell is called FEAR, and you know what? God is Love and perfect law casts out fear. In other words, there aint no God in what you say.
I worship God because I love Him, and I love Him because He first loved me.

Logical:

     because I am afraid of hell, which justifies my reason for belief Atleast its better than been emotional? Dont you think?. . .100% of God believers are afraid of hell? Well if you are not THen maybe i can work on that statistic.

How long will you continue to live in fear and torment? Don't you see what you're missing in life? How do you suppose the one reason why God would create us to believe in and worship Him is because we should be afraid of going to hell? Haa, please!! This is why I shared earlier that in my heart now, I have no fear or torment of anything - not hell, not disaster, not death! That fear was taken out of my heart when I believed in Christ; and sure, that's not an unfounded claim.

Hahahaha so you are saying that you are not scared of hell? And when you preach to others you don't mention hell Honesty please

So from what you are saying, can I assume that hell doesnt exist? And humans are free from the punishment for not believing? Since its all love, there is no strings, its your choice

I would really prefer if I wont account for anything, When I die, thats it.

I primarily don't preach to people first from the point of Hell. No. I tell them God's plan for salvation and God witnesses the truth to their heart. The Bible says in Romans 2:4 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? "
How many people have quit smoking from fear of cancer? Men, will always be men. Even in Naija today, many still claim that AIDS does not exist and go on to care less. A former south african leader was just acquited of rape charges on a woman who happens to be HIV positive. He knew she was HIV positive but still had unprotected sex with her. Tell me, how does fear of death help such a man?

@TayoD you are saying what exactly? I didnt get that post?

You know what, I got an idea, you are not scared of hell right? Pray to God that you dont want any rewards for your belief, and its all out of love and you just want to die and turn to ashes. That would show love.

It is God's goodness that leads to repentance, not His wrath.

Logical:

Hahahaha so you are saying that you are not scared of hell? And when you preach to others you don't mention hell Honesty please
So from what you are saying, can I assume that hell doesnt exist? And humans are free from the punishment for not believing? Since its all love, there is no strings, its your choice

Yes, I warn of the consequences of hell - but hell is not an offer as the grace we present. The point is, as a believer, I'm not a candidate of hell - and as long as you don't know peace by faith in your heart, the torment will continue to throb there. Sorry, but that's a fact - and you've severally demonstrated that. Hell is real - but I don't go about my days focusing on that; rather, there's a better place to look forward to - and that's why I don't cringe under fear or torment of hell. If you define the parameters of your life by torment and fear of hell, good for you.

Logical:

I worship God because I don't want to face the consequence of disobeying him is that which is emotional and not logical rather? Strange I must say

You can obey commandments in a number of ways: when you do so out of fear and torment, that's no longer logic but - TORMENT!! Not everyone under communist rule willingly obey the communist manifesto; but they have no choice. So, you tell me - what kind of life do you define by that kind of obedience? And if that's all there is to your view and understanding obedience, how then do I seek to understand your faith?

In Christ, obedience to God's word is not out of torment, but out of love. When I worship and serve in my Christian faith, I don't go about carrying a torment in my heart. So, you'd better start applying your logic to your position - are you obeying because you have nothing better than fear and torment? No wonder!

Acknowledging a possible wrath does not mean, you think about it every single second of your life. But the point is, it is there for a reason, and thus you are supposed to seek refuge from its wrath by believing in him. I perfectly see it that way.

If you don't believe in him, what would happen?

I have fear for God in my heart, and I stand by that till the day I die

and by the way, how does your fear guarantee that you will avoid hell since your allah has said he "will fill hell with men and jinn"?

Allah did not say he will fill hell with men and Jinn. He said he who does not believe in him, serve him and do good works would face the consequences of his choice which would be the wrath in the grave and hell thereafter.

Its very simple and understandeable.

Logical:

Ackowledging a possible wrath does not mean, you think about it every single second of your life. But the point is, it is there for a reason, and thus you are supposed to seek refuge from its wrath by believing in him. I perfectly see it that way.

Good. So, you concede that your logic is failing you by the minute. I warned you of syllogism, didn't I? But sorry, I don't see my faith as viable or sustained because of a fear that hell exists: that is a place "prepared for the devil and his angels" and all who drink from his cask (Matt. 25:41). Since my name is written in the Lamb's book of life, what is my headache with a place not meant for me?

Logical:

If you don't believe in him, what would happen?

Whoever said I don't or didn't believe in God? Forgetting so soon or you're sweating in your palms already?

hmm and what you just said is logical or am I missing something? please rephrase and stop quoting the bible please, we are having an intellectual discussion here.

You belief in something for a reason. Always no matter what the consequence of not believing might be.

Its like telling me that you wont walk in front of a moving car because you love the person driving the car because he happens to be someone you know. And that is the basis of your belief. Honesty friends. Honesty.

You're confirming my sneaky suspicions - sweating in your palms already, eh? lol. I take the teasing back back - just relieving the tensions

Even if I didn't quote the Bible, how does that take away from my points?

I just wish people can be a little bit honest with their real feelings not just too suit a discussion. You are afraid of hell. I am very very sure. I can bet my life on it.

Well, since you're always editting and rephrasing, I couldn'r have seen the last two lines of your last post before mine. So, here -

Logical:

You belief in something for a reason. Always no matter what the consequence of not believing might be.

Its like telling me that you wont walk in front of a moving car because you love the person driving the car because he happens to be someone you know. And that is the basis of your belief. Honesty friends. Honesty.

How does that apply to an analogy of the love of God to a person - that God is driving something at whoever with an intention to 'jam' him/her or what? That just shows that you don't understand the love of God at all - and wait: I don't remember that I was taught about God loving anyone in Islam. Well, God's love is real; and no - He's not driving at injuring anyone. Warnings are not the same things as love and perfect peace to the heart.

You might love God for his grace in this world, but that does not outwith the main purpose.

You might love God for making your dealings in this world a worthwhile. Answering your prayers etc.

But that does not necessarily mean you don't fear God !!!

Are you telling me you cant love and fear someone at the same time? And come to think of it, I never said I dont love God? So what is all the insinuations?

Logical:

I just wish people can be a little bit honest with their real feelings not just too suit a discussion. You are afraid of hell. I am very very sure. I can bet my life on it.

I really wish you knew me more than on this Forum - no I am NOT afraid of hell. And I told you why - because I have perfect peace in my heart and the assurance of God's living power that I am not going to hell!! Why? Because I am one of His children (by faith in Christ), and He does not send His children to hell! Think: what kind of father would have his children live their lives in any kind of torment? In the same way: how do you suppose that a loving God holds out the torment of hell or anything else as part of our faith and existence? Only those who don't know the love of God live their lives in fear - I've said so umpteen times.

No, I don't have any fear of torment in my heart - not of hell, the devil or anything else. It doesn't mean that I live my life carelessly and be exposed to danger; but it just simply mean that my life makes more meaning now because of the perfect peace that has taken away my fears: and that's as sincerelyas I can tell you, believe it or not.

Logical:

Are you telling me you can't love and fear someone at the same time? And come to think of it, I never said I don't love God? So what is all the insinuations?

I never inferred that I don't have a reverential fear for God - but that is God and not hell! Note the difference: I fear God and love Him; but I don't fear hell - and I think that torment and fear of hell has been the discussion all the while?

You can fear and love hell, can you? So, keep the issues clear enough so I can follow your strain of thought.

I just asked a pastor friend. He claims it is a contradiction for a christian not to fear HELL. I rest my case.

There are lots of pastors who will mislead you. Ask him to tell you about the love of God and what the Bible says in I John 4:18 - ask him if one can 'love' and still have 'torment'.

Key Facts About Eternity

(1) Everyone will exist eternally either in heaven or hell (Daniel 12:2,3; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28; Revelation 20:14,15).

(2) Everyone has only one life in which to determine their destiny (Hebrews 9:27).

(3) Heaven or hell is determined by whether a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them (John 3:16, 36, etc.).

Key Passages About Hell

(1) Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).

(2) Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:.

(3) Hell is conscious torment.

* Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”
* Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”
* Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”

(4) Hell is eternal and irreversible.

* Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”
* Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”
* Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”

Erroneous Views of Hell

(1) The second chance view – After death there is still a way to escape hell.

Answer: “It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).

(2) Universalism – All are eternally saved.

Answer: It denies the truth of salvation through Christ which means that a person decides to either trust in Christ or else he/she rejects Christ and goes to hell (John 3:16;3:36).

(3) Annihilationism – Hell means a person dies like an animal – ceases to exist.

Answer: It denies the resurrection of the unsaved (John 5:28, etc. – see above). It denies conscious torment (see above).
Objections to the Biblical View of Hell

(1) A loving God would not send people to a horrible hell.

Response: God is just (Romans 2:11).

* God has provided the way of salvation to all (John 3:16,17; 2 Corinthians 5:14,15; 1 Timothy 2:6; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Peter 3:9).
* Even those who haven’t heard of Christ are accountable for God’s revelation in nature (Romans 1:20). God will seek those who seek Him (Matthew 7:7; Luke 19:10).
* Therefore God doesn’t send people to hell, they choose it (Romans 1:18,21,25).

(2) Hell is too severe a punishment for man’s sin.

Response: God is holy-perfect (1 Peter 1:14,15).

* Sin is willful opposition to God our creator (Romans 1:18-32).
* Our sin does merit hell (Romans 1:32; 2:2,5,6).
* What is unfair and amazing is that Christ died for our sin and freely offers salvation to all (Romans 2:4; 3:22-24; 4:7,8; 5:8,9).

Appreciate all the verses. But what then - do they say that hell was meant for the believer who has received Christ as Saviour and Lord? Go through again and check it out: if there's any verse that says Christians should live in fear or torment, please post it - I'm open to learning.

Noticed a few typos as well, but I know they were not intentional:

Logical:

(3) Heaven or hell is determined by whether a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them (John 3:16, 36, etc.).

That should have read somthing like:
"Heaven or hell is determined by whether or not a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them. . ."

The verses show clearly that Hell is something to be feared. It doesnt have to say, Believers fear hell. But with this verses it says, you are forwarned.

Here, let me help with a guiding verse:

Rev 21:8 - "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Did you notice that the first class of people listed in that verse are the fearful? Do you see where I'm coming from now? Why should we live in torment after receiving Jesus Christ whose peace fills the soul and removes torments and fears (I John 4:18)? Torment and fear rest in the bosom of those who don't know the peace Christ gives - fear which was tangible to me before I became a Christian. This is why a "pastor friend" is no guarantee for Biblical truth unless such a person knows God and the Word well enough. If this doesn't help, I'll humbly wait for the Bible verse that says a Christian should live in fear or torment of hell.

@ Reverend,
What's wrong? How can a learned person like you turn this way? It made no sense at all. You're the only one asking questions and simultaneously answering them.

Here we go:


1. Does the Qur’an define the word "Allah"? No.

The answer is Yes! Allah -- the One and Only!

  2. Was the name "Allah" revealed for the first time in the Qur’an? No

Unclear. What did you mean by this?

3. Does the Qur’an assume that its readers have already heard of "Allah"? Yes

 Of course, inasmuch as the Qur'an is the Word of Allah, we believe we have heard from Him. What's your problem with that?

  4. Should we look into pre-Islamic Arabian history to see who "Allah" was before Muhammad? Yes.  

It's no secret. Throughout the history of Arabia, Allah has always been the name of The Most High -- The Sublime. Read more, man.

5. According to Muslim tradition, was Muhammad born into a Christian family and tribe? No

Everybody knew that Muhammad was born into a community immersed in total idolatry.

  6. Was he born into a Jewish family or tribe? No

See what I mean. Laughable!

7. What religion was his family and tribe? Pagans

Of course, that's not new.

  8. What was the name of his pagan father? Abdullah (Abd + Allah)

Abd means "slave" Abd Allah (a slave of Allah). I, Ajisafe, am an obedient slave of Allah.

  9. Did Muhammad participate in the pagan ceremonies of Mecca? Yes

No. Never! That was why he would retreat to the Cave Hira on Jab al-Hud (Mount Hud) to meditate until one day when  the Arch-Angel eventually visited him with the Glad Tidings.

 10. Did the Arabs in pre-Islamic times worship 360 gods? Yes

Somebody, please, call this man an ambulance. Read Seerat al-Nabw (Lifestory of the Prophet) -- you'll see that he was against all of these things you have mentioned. That was why the pagans wanted to kill him.  Honestly, I have to stop answering you. You are sick -- just going round and round about paganism. Everyone knows Prophet Muhammad's life-story and that of the early Arabia. Yes, the whole of Arabia was into paganism before Muhammad cleansed them of it.

Maybe, I should ask you the followings:

Were your forefathers in England cave-dwellers or not?

Were they not so ignorant and backward (as at the time of African Civilization) that they ate raw food: uncooked yam tuber and blood-soaked meat? Until the Africans showed them how to cook?

What was the pagan background of your forefathers called? If you don't know I'll tell you. Druidism. You're a product of the accursed Druids.

Ecclesiates 12:13: "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

I thought that apostate said something like: "The nature of faith does not suppose fear - that's what you may believe or hold onto in Islam, but fear is not connected to faith in anyway"?

If you're quoting and addressing me as an apostate, that's mild - if Islam has nothing better than to offer fear and torment, please read Revelation 21:8. The context of the fear you just quoted is what will drag many down to the second death. Follow the context of the discussion. The "fear of God" does not drive someone away from God - it drives one towards God in loving fellowship. The "fear of hell" is not connected to faith in any way. Got any more amazing apostate questions?