Like a pearl, a gleaming jewel in the night of space it hangs. . .

Beauty beyond compare. . .

In her hills, in her seas, in her winds. . .

The bounty of life revere. . .



Just look at her. . . some very strange people declare she was made by nothing. . . and happened by chance. . . and for some very bizzare reason, they imagine every person who thinks otherwise is stupid. . . or has no reasons for thinking otherwise. . .

Really, let's define stupid.

Forward soldiers! The Deist war is here. . .! ! !

yeah the cell also emerged purely by chance . . . what a comforting "fact" to chew on.

Deep Sight:

Like a pearl, a gleaming jewel in the night of space it hangs. . .

Beauty beyond compare. . .

In her hills, in her seas, in her winds. . .

The bounty of life revere. . .
Just look at her. . . some very strange people declare she was made by nothing. . . and happened by chance. . . and for some very bizzare reason, they imagine every person who thinks otherwise is stupid.

Really, let's define stupid.

Forward soldiers! The Deist war is here. . .! ! !

Perfect in circumstance

every single inch of her

down to the deepest crater

like a symphony they play together

atomic notes testifying to a brilliant creator

the envy of her siblings in the universe

she the definition of excellence

some allege coincidence, something of a big bang

her children insist the absence of a shaping Hand

she laughs

in slient amusement

wondering if they ever considered the evidence

if they ever considered the facts

but they seem instead to prefer theories

apparently

harder it is to accept the existence of a God

than it is to not.

Deep Sight:

Lsome very strange people declare she was made by nothing. . . and happened by chance. . . and for some very bizzare reason, they imagine every person who thinks otherwise is stupid. . . or has no reasons for thinking otherwise. . .

It is possible to[b] marvel at the universe[/b], and the earth, without believing in a deity. Why those two things [b]must [/b]go hand in hand is what I would love to see u explain.  

Krayola:

It is possible to[b] marvel at the universe[/b], and the earth, without believing in a deity. Why those two things [b]must [/b]go hand in hand is what I would love to see u explain.  

So how would you explain the existence of a universe such as ours? Either of three things is possible:

1. chance

2. Deity

3. Man

which is it?

JeSoul:

Perfect in circumstance

every single inch of her

down to the deepest crater

like a symphony they play together

atomic notes testifying to a brilliant creator

the envy of her siblings in the universe

she the definition of excellence

some allege coincidence, something of a big bang

her children insist the absence of a shaping Hand

she laughs

in slient amusement

wondering if they ever considered the evidence

if they ever considered the facts

but they seem instead to prefer theories

apparently

harder it is to accept the existence of a God

than it is to not.

Jesoul. . . are you a writer, then, you write poetry?

Deep Sight:

Jesoul. . . are you a writer, then, you write poetry?

  Yes sir, I dabble a lil bit 

davidylan:

So how would you explain the existence of a universe such as ours? Either of three things is possible:

1. chance

2. Deity

3. Man

which is it?

I am very interested in seeing the responses to this question . . .

JeSoul:

  Yes sir, I dabble a lil bit 

Great,

Cool, I got it and will send it a second. Modify away . . . lol

davidylan:

So how would you explain the existence of a universe such as ours? Either of three things is possible:

1. chance

2. Deity

3. Man

which is it?

We do NOT know if the universe is only a universe. . .it could be a multi verse. . . It could be a part of a bigger system we just do NOT know. . .Saying that the universe can only come about as a result of only 3 options is just limiting your options. . .scientist do not even know what this thing is. . .They are just discovering more and more about it as time goes by. . .The universe as it is makes all the gods of man made religions look too insignificant. . .All the gods of man made religions do not talk about other parts of the universe. . .They only talk about the earth and dwell in the earth because to them the earth alone exist. . .

So what do you suppose the Quoran meant with its opening line - Praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds"

Notice the plural? ? ?

mazaje:

We do NOT know if the universe is only a universe. . .it could be a multi verse. . . It could be a part of a bigger system we just do NOT know. . .Saying that the universe can only come about as a result of only 3 options is just limiting your options. . .scientist do not even know what this thing is. . .They are just discovering more and more about it as time goes by. . .The universe as it is makes all the gods of man made religions look too insignificant. . .All the gods of man made religions do not talk about other parts of the universe. . .They only talk about the earth and dwell in the earth because to them the earth alone exist. . .

My friend you are merely beating about the bush, what other options can exist to explain the existence of the earth besides chance, man or deity? Air, sand or chemicals?

Not knowing whether the universe is actually uni- or multi- has NOTHING to do with anything presented here. The question is HOW did the universe we live in appear? That you do not know means we can rule man out . . . so we are left with 2 options:

1. chance

2. Deity

Now which is it?

I'm tired of chasing shadows.

^hehe my thots exactly.

mazaje:

We do NOT know if the universe is only a universe. . .it could be a multi verse. . . It could be a part of a bigger system we just do NOT know. . .Saying that the universe can only come about as a result of only 3 options is just limiting your options. . .scientist do not even know what this thing is. . .They are just discovering more and more about it as time goes by. . .The universe as it is makes all the gods of man made religions look too insignificant. . .All the gods of man made religions do not talk about other parts of the universe. . .They only talk about the earth and dwell in the earth because to them the earth alone exist. . .

 You have just done the electric slide around the question.

Even if science has not "discovered" this elusive cause, it would still fall under one of David's categories:

Either

1. Chance

or

2. Deity

 we can scratch man since we know he didn't, and lets add

3. Aliens

which is it?

JeSoul:

^hehe my thots exactly.
You have just done the electric slide around the question.

Even if science has not "discovered" this elusive cause, it would still fall under one of David's categories:

Either

1. Chance

or

2. Deity

we can scratch man since we know he didn't, and lets add

3. Aliens

which is it?

He's going to add a fourth option: an equation or principle inherent in existence. He'll forget to ponder the rationality of such an impersonal equation ever producing very personal feelings that humans have today: love, hatred, conscience, spiritual longing, to mention but a few.

Open your mind. What makes you so sure that there are only 2 possible explanations, chance or a god, or to be more precise your god out of the hundreds of other gods that people beleive in. The search for the true answer to the big question is not helped when you jump to the bronze age conclusion that yahweh did it. There are many more possibilities and like a detective we need to piece together the evidence and understand more about our universe and our history to come to a more rational answer.

Why do religious people think that they know the answer and are 100% certain that their answer is right. Do they not see that thousands of other religions claim to have the true answer. It is only the scientists who admit that they do not know and continue seaching, thus increasing our knowledge and understanding of this beautifull planet and awe inspiring universe.

"The heavens are proclaiming the glory of God, and of the work of his hands, the expanse is telling" - The Bible

I'm just wondering why of all the options, you choose to EXCLUDE the deistic option.

Why is it not an option?

JeSoul:

^hehe my thots exactly.
  You have just done the electric slide around the question.

Even if science has not "discovered" this elusive cause, it would still fall under one of David's categories:

Either

1. Chance

or

2. Deity

 we can scratch man since we know he didn't, and lets add

3. Aliens

which is it?

We do not know what the universe really is. . .so why assign limited options for its cause when we do NOT even know what it is?. . .The problem is that we always assume that the universe must behave like a human society. . .Chance, deities and aliens are all human conceptions. . .Its even possible that the universe is eternal like matter and was neither created and can not be destroyed completely. . .something that just keeps changing from one form to another eternally. . .we do not know. . .In fact we do not know if we are the only ones out here. . .

mantraa:

Open your mind. What makes you so sure that there are only 2 possible explanations, chance or a god, or to be more precise your god out of the hundreds of other gods that people beleive in. The search for the true answer to the big question is not helped when you jump to the bronze age conclusion that yahweh did it. There are many more possibilities and like a detective we need to piece together the evidence and understand more about our universe and our history to come to a more rational answer.

Why do religious people think that they know the answer and are 100% certain that their answer is right. Do they not see that thousands of other religions claim to have the true answer. It is only the scientists who admit that they do not know and continue seaching, thus increasing our knowledge and understanding of this beautifull planet and awe inspiring universe.

Now that you have "opened your mind", can you please share with us these "many more possibilities"?

Aliens  

Maybe it was the predators  

mazaje:

We do not know what the universe really is. . .so why assign limited options for its cause when we do NOT even know what it is?. . .The problem is that we always assume that the universe must behave like a human society. . .Chance, deities and aliens are all human conceptions. . .Its even possible that the universe is eternal like matter and was neither created and can not be destroyed completely. . .something that just keeps changing from one form to another eternally. . .we do not know. . .In fact we do not know if we are the only ones out here. . .

the problem is that the term "eternal" is itself a human concept! How you people cannot realise the folly of your own arguments amazes me.

Deep Sight:

[i]"The heavens are proclaiming the glory of God, and of the work of his hands, the expanse is telling" - The Bible[/i

You will find such statements in the koran, ancient geek religious books and other religious text of the hindus, buddist etc. . .Humans are very poetic and this kind of expression is not found only in the bible. . .The problem is that all the religions claim that their god is responsible for the existence of the heavens and the earth. . .

davidylan:

the problem is that the term "eternal" is itself a human concept! How you people cannot realise the folly of your own arguments amazes me.

I didn't expect you to understand the point I was trying to make so its no surprise. . . . . .your statement above does not even come close to what I was saying. . .I know you only wanted to just say something and embarrass yourself. . .

mazaje:

You will find such statements in the koran, ancient geek religious books and other religious text of the hindus, buddist etc. . .Humans are very poetic and this kind of expression is not found only in the bible. . .The problem is that all the religions claim that their god is responsible for the existence of the heavens and the earth. . .

Absolutely correct, you will find such statements everywhere. That in itself should make you think.

It is not a question of "my god" or "your god" - the truth is that every human tribe has always had a perception of a Universal Deity - a Creator, and they ascribe names to that Deity.

The mere fact that the names are different, and the characteristics differ, should only be expected given the diverse cultures and histories of the peoples.

You know very well that even if you and i saw a living person, we would likely give different descriptions of that person. How much more will the characterizations of the Creative Element differ from tribe to tribe!

Thus it really is a recognition that A CREATOR (name irrelevant) created the Universe. Period.

Now that you have "opened your mind", can you please share with us these "many more possibilities"?

Here are a few creation stories from africa as a small example;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth

Africa
[edit] Bakuba

In the Bakuba account of demiurge, the Earth was originally nothing but water and darkness, ruled by the giant Mbombo. This giant, after feeling an intense pain in his stomach one day, vomited up the sun, moon, and stars. The heat and light from the sun evaporated the water covering Earth, creating clouds, and after time, the dry hills emerged from the water. Mbombo vomited once more. Many things were contained in this second vomiting—people (the first man and the first woman), animals (the leopard, the eagle, and the monkey Fumu), trees, the falling star, the anvil, the firmament, the razor, medicine, and lighting. The woman of the waters, Nchienge, lived in the East, and her son, Woto, became the first king of the Bakuba. [2][3]
[edit] Maasai


The Maasai of Kenya in their creation narrative recount the origin of humanity to be fashioned by the Creator deity from a single tree or leg which split into three pieces. To the first father of the Maasai, he gave a stick. To the first father of the Kikuyu, he gave a hoe. To the first father of the Kamba, he gave a bow and arrow. Each son survived in the wild. The first father of the Maasai used his stick to herd animals. The first father of the Kikuyu used his hoe to cultivate the ground. The first father of the Kamba used his bow and arrow to hunt.
[edit] Mandinka

The traditional creation narrative of the Mandinka people of southern Mali begins with Mangala, a singular, powerful being who is perceived to be a round, energetic presence. Within Mangala existed four divisions, which were symbolic of, among many things, the four days of the week (time), the four elements (matter), and the four directions (space). Mangala also contained two sets of dual gendered twins. Mangala was tired of keeping all of this matter inside, so the god removed it and compiled it into a seed. The seed was his creation of the world. The seed however did not hold together well and blew up. Mangala was disappointed with this and destroyed the world he created.

Mangala did not lose hope; the creator began again, this time with two sets of twin seeds. Mangala planted the seeds in an egg shaped womb where they gestated. Mangala continued to put more sets of twin seeds in the womb until he had 8 sets of seeds. In the womb, the gestating seeds transformed themselves into fish. The fish is considered a symbol of fertility in the Mande world. This time, Mangala's creation was successful. This is important, because it illustrates the idea of dual gendered twinship, an idea that permeates Mande culture.

Mangala tried to maintain this perfect creation, but chaos crept in; one of the male twins became ambitious and tried to escape from the egg. This chaotic character is called Pemba. He is a trickster figure whose first trick was to steal a piece of the womb's placenta and throw it down. This action made the earth. Pemba then tried to refertilize what was left of the womb, committing incest against his mother, the womb.

Mangala decided to sacrifice Pemba's brother Farro to save what was left of his creation. He castrated him and then killed him in order to raise him from the dead. Mangala took what was left of the placenta and transformed it into the sun, thus associating Pemba with darkness and the night. Farro was transformed into a human being and was taught the language of creation by Mangala. Farro's knowledge of words is very powerful and the tool he used to defeat Pemba's mischief. Farro and his newly created twins came to Earth and got married (not to each other). This is the basis for the foundation of exogamy in Mande.

Next, a being named Sourakata arrived from the sky with the first sacred drum, hammer, and the sacrificed skull of Farro. Sourakata began to play on the drum and sang for the first rain to come. Sourakata is a magical being who can control nature, and he taught Farro and his followers.
[edit] Voodoo
Veve of Damballa

Damballah (Sky-serpent loa and wise and loving Father archetype) created all the waters of the earth. In the form of a serpent, the movement of his 7,000 coils formed hills and valleys on earth and brought forth stars and planets in the cosmos. He forged metals from heat and sent forth lightning bolts to form the sacred rocks and stones.

When he shed his skin in the sun, releasing all the waters over the land, the sun shone in the water and created the rainbow. Damballah loved the rainbow's beauty and made her his wife, Aida-Wedo. (Aida-Wedo represents the sky powers and is symbolized by the rainbow; wife of Damballah, she shares his function as cosmic protector and giver of blessing.)

The revelations of the loa (deity) descended upon the first faithful in Ifé, a legendary city located in Nigeria. Therefore, everything in life and all spiritual strength comes from Ifé. The homeland of all voodoo devotees, where Ifé is located, is Ginen, from where they were forced to flee in the African Diaspora. In death, the higher soul will return to Ginen (the world of the dead, said to be under the water below the earth) to reside with the loa and the ancestral spirits. Because of this, all practitioners of voodoo refer to themselves as ti guinin, sons or daughters of Ginen.
[edit] Yoruba

The Yoruba creator is called Olorun or Olodumare and is often assisted by the spirit, or "lesser god", Obatala. In the beginning, there was only water and chaos. The supreme being sent Obatala or Orishanla down from the sky to create some land out of the chaos. He descended on a long chain (umbilical cord) and brought with him a Chicken, Shell full of sand, and a palm kernel. First, he poured the sand from the shell onto the earth and the chicken on top of that. The chicken kicked at the sand and spread it out to create land. Then he planted the palm seed and from it grew the Earth's first kingdom, of which he was the first ruller and all of yoruba are his descendants. Olorun named earth "Ife" and the first city "Ile-Ife." Orishanla created humans out of the earth and got Olorun to blow life into them.
[edit] Zulu

The Ancient One, known as Unkulunkulu, is the Zulu creator. He came from the reeds and from them he brought forth the people and the cattle. He created everything that is: mountains, streams, snakes, etc. He taught the Zulu how to hunt, how to make fire, and how to grow food.



Do you respect the fact that your recent ancestors used to beleive that their answer is 100% correct until the white man came with his god, enslaved us and forced us to believe in jesus or be murdered as heathens.

This what i mean when i say open your mind.

respects

Good Mantraa, i actually agree with you - and for me this has nothing to do with Jesus or Mohammad.

ALL the traditions you have pointed out agree on the existence of a creator.

? ? ? ? ? ?

Deep Sight:

Absolutely correct, you will find such statements everywhere. That in itself should make you think.

It is not a question of "my god" or "your god" - the truth is that every human tribe has always had a perception of a Universal Deity - a Creator, and they ascribe names to that Deity.

The mere fact that the names are different, and the characteristics differ, should only be expected given the diverse cultures and histories of the peoples.

You know very well that even if you and i saw a living person, we would likely give different descriptions of that person. How much more will the characterizations of the Creative Element differ from tribe to tribe!

Thus it really is a recognition that A CREATOR (name irrelevant) created the Universe. Period.

The problem with you is that you present the universe as the evidence for your elusive god. . . Other religions at least do not do that. . they have gone further to try to tell us how their various god's created the universe. . .

There are so many creation myths out there. . .I at least give other religions credit for making such claims. . your deist on the other hand do not give any creation accounts for people to see and know if its true but just claim that everything that is in existence is as a result of your god. . .everything that exist is an evidence for the existince of that thing not an evidence for your god. . .

mazaje:


The problem with you is that you present the universe as the evidence for your elusive god. . . Other religions at least do not do that. . they have gone further to try to tell us how their various god's created the universe. . .

There are so many creation myths out there. . .I at least give other religions credit for making such claims. . your deist on the other hand do not give any creation accounts for people to see and know if its true but just claim that everything that is in existence is as a result of your god. . .everything that exist is an evidence for the existince of that thing not an evidence for your god. . .

I dont know what you mean by "your god"

I state: A CREATOR created the universe.

That is like stating: "x effect had a cause"

Tell me you have a problem with that? ? ? ? ?

Does this embody a thought? Who's thought, then?

Or does it appear "thoughtless"?

mantraa:

Do you respect the fact that your recent ancestors used to beleive that their answer is 100% correct until the white man came with his god, enslaved us and forced us to believe in jesus or be murdered as heathens.

This what i mean when i say open your mind.

respects

to be honest, i struggle to see what all this has to do with anything on this thread. How did the earth appear? Chance, man or Deity (whichever)?

You say to be "open minded" . . . i really dont see you as "open minded" at all . . . i see you as someone confused but determined NOT to believe in God. you talked about "many more possibilities" earlier on, it is quite telling that you have FAILED to provide just ONE example of one of such plausible possibilities. Rather you go around bringing accounts of creation from african mythology? What exactly does that explain?

davidylan:

to be honest, i struggle to see what all this has to do with anything on this thread. How did the earth appear? Chance, man or Deity (whichever)?

You say to be "open minded" . . . i really dont see you as "open minded" at all . . . [b]i see you as someone confused but determined NOT to believe in God. [/b]you talked about "many more possibilities" earlier on, it is quite telling that you have FAILED to provide just ONE example of one of such plausible possibilities. Rather you go around bringing accounts of creation from african mythology? What exactly does that explain?

If only you provide some evidence for him to show that your god exist outside the pages of the bible he might believe. . .As long as you haven't you can just shut up and be quite. . .

@deep sight
That is a truly beautiful photo.

Doesnt it make you think why? what caused it to exist? How did all those  billions of stars come together to form that amazing galaxy? How many planets are in there? Is there other life forms in there? are they intelligent?
We need to keep on searching for answers to understand this fantastic universe that we are a part of.
20 years ago we could not even have seen an image like this if it was not for the scientists who refused to stop searching for the answers and built the space telescopes. We are literally infants in our evolution on this planet and are just begining to find out about our universe like a child that has just left his house for the first time and realises he is in a huge city, with other cities and countries to discover and explore.

Who knows what we will find?
Why limit yourself to just 2 possibilities. Just be patient, and dont jump to conclusions.

the answer is out there

mazaje:

If only you provide some evidence for him to show that your god exist outside the pages of the bible he might believe. . .As long as you haven't you can just shut up and be quite. . .

you really shld keep quiet yourself, why you run around asking others to provide proof for your own spiritual insecurity is baffling.