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| Some Simple Questions For Theists by donnffd(m): 11:48am On Aug 21, 2016 |
Noone can deny the vastness of the galaxy and universe as a whole. There are about One trillion planets in our galaxy alone and even if a small fraction has life, it would be in the millions, so it is safe to say it is inevitable to have intelligent life on some of these worlds. With SETI(search for extraterrestrial intelligence) gaining more funds and better technology to scan the skies for intelligent signals. I want to ask you guys, in the event we do discover an intelligent signal from an alien world! - would these beings also be creatures of God? - would they look like us hence like God? - would they also need a saviour? - would we see them in heaven after we die? - would the sin that applies to us, also apply to them? - would they be created from dust like we were? - would jesus also go to that planet and die for their sins? I am just curious... 2 Likes |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by zzzzy: 12:07pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
we believe that christ came to die for man. There could be possibility for the existence of alien creatures and i see them just as how we see animals, for instance how we see a goat. It was created by God but we wouldn't say all those things listed there about it. 2 Likes |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by BloodOnMyHands: 12:17pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
[s] donnffd:You're seeking to build a premise on hypothesis? You want Christians to give you an answer.... a definite answer on facts scientists still find inconclusive? No alien myth proven yet and you want Christians to answer for them physically and metaphysically? Your desperation is not only nauseating, you need to settle your grudge with Mr. Logic first. 12 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by winner01(m): 12:26pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
donnffd:If you have faith that there might be aliens which we have never seen, is it safe to say you have blind faith? Is it also safe to say atheists have faith? donnffd:Of course, im aware of the billions of dollars spent on searching for extraterrestial life in the galaxies. I thoughts atheists were humanists, pro-life and various monikers they give themselves. Why not spend such billions of dollars on eradicating poverty and helping fellow humans. Remember, all you have is here and now, do you really want to help people within your short time on earth or do you just want to keep repeating the rhymes of atheist high priests? If atheists are who they say they are, they will try to protest against searching for extralife with billions of dollars while millions of their brothers and sisters are dying daily in poverty. donnffd:God who created the universe can create anything. If we find extraterrestial life which I seriously doubt, we wont need to ask questions, they will lead us to answers. You are chasing shadows with such questions, the same thing you accuse christians of doing. As Johnydon22 would say, why not focus on the here and now? Why not focus on helping millions of dying people rather than pouring millions of dollars into uncertainty. Atheists dont really question everything, do they? They only question religion. 1 Like |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by donnffd(m): 12:38pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
BloodOnMyHands: Build a premise?, are you kidding me?...i only asked some questions that would come up in the event we discover intelligent extraterrestrial life. You refusal to accept it as a valid question portrays you lack of confidence and fear. No alien myth proven yet and you want Christians to answer for them physically and metaphysically? It seems you did not read the piece, i asked in the event we find an intelligent signal which SETI is right now looking for, what would be the answers of these questions? Stop dodging and simply quench my curiosity |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by BloodOnMyHands: 12:44pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
donnffd:You're one funny person. You want an answer on 'if'   If we find alien life in other galaxies? The Bible is an exhaustive account of here and the otherworld. You don't "if", you stfu until you're certain. You want someone debating your lame imagination of wishful assumptions. What if "if" never comes? You're a tiro 1 Like |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by donnffd(m): 12:51pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
winner01: Saying it is very likely that intelligent aliens exist is not having faith but a calculated guess given the fact we have millions and millions of planets alone in our galaxy that is able to sustain life. Of course, im aware of the billions of dollars spent on searching for extraterrestial life in the galaxies. I guess we should also stop funding the large hadron collider also and many other researches that would further our knowledge about the universe in which we live in. This is why we say religion has a way of caging the mind and not allowing its proponents think outside their own sphere. What does funding the search of extraterrestrial life has to do with preventing children from eating? You are chasing shadows with such questions, the same thing you accuse christians of doing. Are you saying you dont know the answers to the question or are you purposely avoiding it because you know if we do infact discover those signals, it would undermine your beliefs? As Johnydon22 would say, why not focus on the here and now? Why not focus on helping millions of dying people rather than pouring millions of dollars into uncertainty. I dont know when you became an expert on what johnydon22 would say and what he would not say. Moreover, Searching for life outside earth doesnt mean we cant also help dying people, why not remove money from funding wars and weapons and use it to help people rather than attacking the search for extraterrestrial life which would add to our scientifical repository. Just admit that if we do find those signals, your beliefs are heading for the rocks!... 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by Nobody: 12:54pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
Religion will adapt; as usual. Christianity will be spun to depict Christ as the savior of the universe; not the world. The "Bible Scholars" will claim the Greek word had a figurative meaning; that Christ actually came for everyone and we have to SAVE them from sin and their wicked ways and other rhetoric like that. Islam will conquer and dominate part of that world and their own peculiar brand of Gospel will spread in a slave-master relationship. Buhdism? Depends on the populace and their reaction. What I'll be most fascinated to see; if we ever discover Extra-Terrestials; is whether they had a conflagration of religion like we do. 4 Likes |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by donnffd(m): 12:56pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
BloodOnMyHands: I would appreciate some civility please, thanks. If you dont know the answer, then you can as well just say so or keep shut. I really dont understand the defense you guys are putting up for these o, it shows how insecured you are in your own beliefs! |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by hahn(m): 1:00pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
BloodOnMyHands: It is just a thought test  |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by winner01(m): 1:08pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
donnffd:Its likely that intelligent aliens exist, but impossible that an Intelligent Supreme Being created life on earth  Life just started from nothing even though it negates every fact of science, right i get ur dishonesty. donnffd:Who are these "we" in post? Should money be spent on uncertainties while ignoring the certainties of millions of death from hunger and poverty? Thats a redline! donnffd:Nothing, but When some pastors buys jets, it suddenly has everything to do with hungry people right? The material world is your box, we think out of such little box. Thats how most of the fields of science we have today were founded. donnffd:Know the answer, wtf!!! I should give you answers on what you think might happen? Why not tell me what will happen to you when you die and find out that you become an inhabitant of pluto. see how it sounds? donnffd:Exactly my point, I'm not fighting anything, focus on the lives of people here, not neglect them for uncertainties. Those world powers who spend billions on warheads are equally guilty. donnffd:Lol. Calm your nerves and exist till then. |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by donnffd(m): 1:09pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
hahn: The fact he cannot see that shows how badly he doesnt want it to be true... Everyone of them has avoided the question by invalidating it... 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by winner01(m): 1:11pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
BloodOnMyHands:Exactly! He expects reasonable people to take his wishful thinking seriously jus because he added a question mark. So much stupidity! 3 Likes 2 Shares
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| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by Nobody: 1:18pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
BloodOnMyHands:Building premises on well calculated hypotheses is what has advanced science to this point. That phone you're using is one of the products. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by Nobody: 1:25pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
winner01:I know you'd not read it if I posted a link. So I'm posting it here for you to see. Proving ignorance. The epic letter 'why we explore space'. ***************** May 6, 1970 Dear Sister Mary Jucunda: Your letter was one of many which are reaching me every day, but it has touched me more deeply than all the others because it came so much from the depths of a searching mind and a compassionate heart. I will try to answer your question as best as I possibly can. First, however, I would like to express my great admiration for you, and for all your many brave sisters, because you are dedicating your lives to the noblest cause of man: help for his fellowmen who are in need. You asked in your letter how I could suggest the expenditures of billions of dollars for a voyage to Mars, at a time when many children on this Earth are starving to death. I know that you do not expect an answer such as "Oh, I did not know that there are children dying from hunger, but from now on I will desist from any kind of space research until mankind has solved that problem!" In fact, I have known of famined children long before I knew that a voyage to the planet Mars is technically feasible. However, I believe, like many of my friends, that travelling to the Moon and eventually to Mars and to other planets is a venture which we should undertake now, and I even believe that this project, in the long run, will contribute more to the solution of these grave problems we are facing here on Earth than many other potential projects of help which are debated and discussed year after year, and which are so extremely slow in yielding tangible results. Before trying to describe in more detail how our space program is contributing to the solution of our Earthly problems, I would like to relate briefly a supposedly true story, which may help support the argument. About 400 years ago, there lived a count in a small town in Germany. He was one of the benign counts, and he gave a large part of his income to the poor in his town. This was much appreciated, because poverty was abundant during medieval times, and there were epidemics of the plague which ravaged the country frequently. One day, the count met a strange man. He had a workbench and little laboratory in his house, and he labored hard during the daytime so that he could afford a few hours every evening to work in his laboratory. He ground small lenses from pieces of glass; he mounted the lenses in tubes, and he used these gadgets to look at very small objects. The count was particularly fascinated by the tiny creatures that could be observed with the strong magnification, and which he had never seen before. He invited the man to move with his laboratory to the castle, to become a member of the count's household, and to devote henceforth all his time to the development and perfection of his optical gadgets as a special employee of the count. The townspeople, however, became angry when they realized that the count was wasting his money, as they thought, on a stunt without purpose. "We are suffering from this plague," they said, "while he is paying that man for a useless hobby!" But the count remained firm. "I give you as much as I can afford," he said, "but I will also support this man and his work, because I know that someday something will come out of it!" Indeed, something very good came out of this work, and also out of similar work done by others at other places: the microscope. It is well known that the microscope has contributed more than any other invention to the progress of medicine, and that the elimination of the plague and many other contagious diseases from most parts of the world is largely a result of studies which the microscope made possible. The count, by retaining some of his spending money for research and discovery, contributed far more to the relief of human suffering than he could have contributed by giving all he could possibly spare to his plague-ridden community. The situation which we are facing today is similar in many respects. The President of the United States is spending about 200 billion dollars in his yearly budget. This money goes to health, education, welfare, urban renewal, highways, transportation, foreign aid, defense, conservation, science, agriculture and many installations inside and outside the country. About 1.6 percent of this national budget was allocated to space exploration this year. The space program includes Project Apollo, and many other smaller projects in space physics, space astronomy, space biology, planetary projects, Earth resources projects, and space engineering. To make this expenditure for the space program possible, the average American taxpayer with 10,000 dollars income per year is paying about 30 tax dollars for space. The rest of his income, 9,970 dollars, remains for his subsistence, his recreation, his savings, his other taxes, and all his other expenditures. You will probably ask now: "Why don't you take 5 or 3 or 1 dollar out of the 30 space dollars which the average American taxpayer is paying, and send these dollars to the hungry children?" To answer this question, I have to explain briefly how the economy of this country works. The situation is very similar in other countries. The government consists of a number of departments (Interior, Justice, Health, Education and Welfare, Transportation, Defense, and others) and the bureaus (National Science Foundation, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and others). All of them prepare their yearly budgets according to their assigned missions, and each of them must defend its budget against extremely severe screening by congressional committees, and against heavy pressure for economy from the Bureau of the Budget and the President. When the funds are finally appropriated by Congress, they can be spent only for the line items specified and approved in the budget. The budget of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, naturally, can contain only items directly related to aeronautics and space. If this budget were not approved by Congress, the funds proposed for it would not be available for something else; they would simply not be levied from the taxpayer, unless one of the other budgets had obtained approval for a specific increase which would then absorb the funds not spent for space. You realize from this brief discourse that support for hungry children, or rather a support in addition to what the United States is already contributing to this very worthy cause in the form of foreign aid, can be obtained only if the appropriate department submits a budget line item for this purpose, and if this line item is then approved by Congress. You may ask now whether I personally would be in favor of such a move by our government. My answer is an emphatic yes. Indeed, I would not mind at all if my annual taxes were increased by a number of dollars for the purpose of feeding hungry children, wherever they may live. I know that all of my friends feel the same way. However, we could not bring such a program to life merely by desisting from making plans for voyages to Mars. On the contrary, I even believe that by working for the space program I can make some contribution to the relief and eventual solution of such grave problems as poverty and hunger on Earth. Basic to the hunger problem are two functions: the production of food and the distribution of food. Food production by agriculture, cattle ranching, ocean fishing and other large-scale operations is efficient in some parts of the world, but drastically deficient in many others. For example, large areas of land could be utilized far better if efficient methods of watershed control, fertilizer use, weather forecasting, fertility assessment, plantation programming, field selection, planting habits, timing of cultivation, crop survey and harvest planning were applied. The best tool for the improvement of all these functions, undoubtedly, is the artificial Earth satellite. Circling the globe at a high altitude, it can screen wide areas of land within a short time; it can observe and measure a large variety of factors indicating the status and condition of crops, soil, droughts, rainfall, snow cover, etc., and it can radio this information to ground stations for appropriate use. It has been estimated that even a modest system of Earth satellites equipped with Earth resources, sensors, working within a program for worldwide agricultural improvements, will increase the yearly crops by an equivalent of many billions of dollars. The distribution of the food to the needy is a completely different problem. The question is not so much one of shipping volume, it is one of international cooperation. The ruler of a small nation may feel very uneasy about the prospect of having large quantities of food shipped into his country by a large nation, simply because he fears that along with the food there may also be an import of influence and foreign power. Efficient relief from hunger, I am afraid, will not come before the boundaries between nations have become less divisive than they are today. I do not believe that space flight will accomplish this miracle over night. However, the space program is certainly among the most promising and powerful agents working in this direction. Let me only remind you of the recent near-tragedy of Apollo 13. When the time of the crucial reentry of the astronauts approached, the Soviet Union discontinued all Russian radio transmissions in the frequency bands used by the Apollo Project in order to avoid any possible interference, and Russian ships stationed themselves in the Pacific and the Atlantic Oceans in case an emergency rescue would become necessary. Had the astronaut capsule touched down near a Russian ship, the Russians would undoubtedly have expended as much care and effort in their rescue as if Russian cosmonauts had returned from a space trip. If Russian space travelers should ever be in a similar emergency situation, Americans would do the same without any doubt. Higher food production through survey and assessment from orbit, and better food distribution through improved international relations, are only two examples of how profoundly the space program will impact life on Earth. I would like to quote two other examples: stimulation of technological development, and generation of scientific knowledge. The requirements for high precision and for extreme reliability which must be imposed upon the components of a moon-travelling spacecraft are entirely unprecedented in the history of engineering. The development of systems which meet these severe requirements has provided us a unique opportunity to find new material and methods, to invent better technical systems, to manufacturing procedures, to lengthen the lifetimes of instruments, and even to discover new laws of nature. All this newly acquired technical knowledge is also available for application to Earth-bound technologies. Every year, about a thousand technical innovations generated in the space program find their ways into our Earthly technology where they lead to better kitchen appliances and farm equipment, better sewing machines and radios, better ships and airplanes, better weather forecasting and storm warning, better communications, better medical instruments, better utensils and tools for everyday life. Presumably, you will ask now why we must develop first a life support system for our moon-travelling astronauts, before we can build a remote-reading sensor system for heart patients. The answer is simple: significant progress in the solutions of technical problems is frequently made not by a direct approach, but by first setting a goal of high challenge which offers a strong motivation for innovative work, which fires the imagination and spurs men to expend their best efforts, and which acts as a catalyst by including chains of other reactions. Spaceflight without any doubt is playing exactly this role. The voyage to Mars will certainly not be a direct source of food for the hungry. However, it will lead to so many new technologies and capabilities that the spin-offs from this project alone will be worth many times the cost of its implementation. Besides the need for new technologies, there is a continuing great need for new basic knowledge in the sciences if we wish to improve the conditions of human life on Earth. We need more knowledge in physics and chemistry, in biology and physiology, and very particularly in medicine to cope with all these problems which threaten man's life: hunger, disease, contamination of food and water, pollution of the environment. We need more young men and women who choose science as a career and we need better support for those scientists who have the talent and the determination to engage in fruitful research work. Challenging research objectives must be available, and sufficient support for research projects must be provided. Again, the space program with its wonderful opportunities to engage in truly magnificent research studies of moons and planets, of physics and astronomy, of biology and medicine is an almost ideal catalyst which induces the reaction between the motivation for scientific work, opportunities to observe exciting phenomena of nature, and material support needed to carry out the research effort. Among all the activities which are directed, controlled, and funded by the American government, the space program is certainly the most visible and probably the most debated activity, although it consumes only 1.6 percent of the total national budget, and 3 per mille (less than one-third of 1 percent) of the gross national product. As a stimulant and catalyst for the development of new technologies, and for research in the basic sciences, it is unparalleled by any other activity. In this respect, we may even say that the space program is taking over a function which for three or four thousand years has been the sad prerogative of wars. How much human suffering can be avoided if nations, instead of competing with their bomb-dropping fleets of airplanes and rockets, compete with their moon-travelling space ships! This competition is full of promise for brilliant victories, but it leaves no room for the bitter fate of the vanquished, which breeds nothing but revenge and new wars. Although our space program seems to lead us away from our Earth and out toward the moon, the sun, the planets, and the stars, I believe that none of these celestial objects will find as much attention and study by space scientists as our Earth. It will become a better Earth, not only because of all the new technological and scientific knowledge which we will apply to the betterment of life, but also because we are developing a far deeper appreciation of our Earth, of life, and of man. The photograph which I enclose with this letter shows a view of our Earth as seen from Apollo 8 when it orbited the moon at Christmas, 1968. Of all the many wonderful results of the space program so far, this picture may be the most important one. It opened our eyes to the fact that our Earth is a beautiful and most precious island in an unlimited void, and that there is no other place for us to live but the thin surface layer of our planet, bordered by the bleak nothingness of space. Never before did so many people recognize how limited our Earth really is, and how perilous it would be to tamper with its ecological balance. Ever since this picture was first published, voices have become louder and louder warning of the grave problems that confront man in our times: pollution, hunger, poverty, urban living, food production, water control, overpopulation. It is certainly not by accident that we begin to see the tremendous tasks waiting for us at a time when the young space age has provided us the first good look at our own planet. Very fortunately though, the space age not only holds out a mirror in which we can see ourselves, it also provides us with the technologies, the challenge, the motivation, and even with the optimism to attack these tasks with confidence. What we learn in our space program, I believe, is fully supporting what Albert Schweitzer had in mind when he said: "I am looking at the future with concern, but with good hope." My very best wishes will always be with you, and with your children. Very sincerely yours, Ernst Stuhlinger Associate Director for Science |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by winner01(m): 1:26pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
AnonyNymous:Atheists made phones right? |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by Nobody: 1:28pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
winner01:Why do you love making posts devoid of common sense? Is that what you picked from my own post? 1 Like |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by winner01(m): 1:29pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
AnonyNymous:And so Christians should give credence to his hypotheses. Why not just calm down till then? |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by Nobody: 1:30pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
Op nice one jare |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by Nobody: 1:32pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
winner01:If you refuse to provide explanations just because they're well calculated hypotheses, then you're admitting that Christianity is devoid of logic. One of the basic L's involved in logical reasoning is making calculated guesses and basing conclusions from them till more proof (e.g from practical demonstrations) is shown. 1 Like |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by donnffd(m): 1:32pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
winner01: We are not arguing about whether life started from nothing or was created by an intelligent supreme being. Infact the questions are presupposing your religion is correct and just asking simple and plain questions that would obviously be inevitable when we do infact detect those signals. If your God is true, and aliens are really out there, then you cant run from those questions because you would also have to explain that... Who are these "we" in post? You talk about not spending money on this feat as though as if it was some waste of money. First of all, the money SETI receives is extremely small compared to other budgets, and if not because of the private sector most recently Yuri muller who invested 100 million dollars in the breakthrough listen project, SETI would still be getting peanuts compared to other aspects of life. Also, The search would help us answer that age-long question of whether we are alone in the universe?. Nothing, but When some pastors buys jets, it suddenly has everything to do with hungry people right? Thank goodness, you said it yourself, SETI uses the small money they get to try to answer questions that has plagued man since he could gaze at the stars, while your pastors use the money to buy jets and build mansions. I really dont know how you can even begin to compare! Know the answer, wtf!!! Are you trying to say that when we do find alien life, people wont ask the questions i asked in the op? Lol. This is more of a lets cross the bridge when we get there scenerio, thus confirming what i have said all along, you dont know and you are waiting for science to progress so that you can also revise your understanding of your religion. |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by winner01(m): 1:34pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
AnonyNymous: Butthurt AnonyNymous:Its nice obviously. If a christian opened a similar thread, it won't be nice. smh! |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by winner01(m): 1:38pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
donnffd:Yawns!!! I dont have your time right now. I believe when the "aliens" are found, they will point us to the answer. If the answer is "God", would you admit your life-long stupidity? 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by Pidggin(f): 1:38pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
Aliens can't be made in God's image, the Bible talks of cosmic entities but doesn't liken then to God in any way. |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by winner01(m): 1:43pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
AnonyNymous:What do you call the Logic and proof that supports the existence of a trancesdent Cause again? Oh I remember illogical! 
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| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by winner01(m): 1:44pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
Pidggin:I dont think this joke of a thread deserves your answer. 1 Like |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by Nobody: 1:44pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
winner01:Your lack of common sense is amazing. I said phones were made by testing hypotheses. You said 'atheist made phones' I don't see the connection And now you're using the word 'butthurt'. Do you even know what that means? |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by winner01(m): 1:47pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
AnonyNymous:No I dont Educate me please'Do you have any other job on a religion section rather than preaching atheism? I was just being blunt. |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by Nobody: 1:47pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
winner01:Haha, winner, I have never stated there is no god. I just don't believe 'god' is an emotional sky daddy |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by donnffd(m): 1:48pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
Pidggin: Thanks for actually attempting the question. So why cant they be made in God's image? and do you infer that we are the only ones who were made in God's image? |
| Re: Some Simple Questions For Theists by Nobody: 1:48pm On Aug 21, 2016 |
winner01:You don't have anything to say jare Go siddon Let people that know what they're talking about come and debate 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Yookos Christian Who Smoke W E E D / Christians,honestly, Do You Think Yahweh And The God Of Jesus Might Be Different / Did She Loose Faith Or She Was Just A Church-goer?
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