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Re: Is Jesus God? by babs787(m): 8:51am On Apr 30, 2007
@pilgrims



By posting that excerpt above, are you trying to convince readers that the GNOSTIC Jesus of the Essene is the very one YOU believe in - the very same one that the QUR'AN proclaims??


I should be the one asking you that. I thought you were a muslim and you might have read his story in my book. Are you telling me that the Gospel with you now is the one given to Jesus?


It is such a pity that you take pleasure in deriding Jesus Christ at just about any instance and in any way that suits your calumny. Little do you realize that, not only are your efforts counter-productive, they are also anti-Islamic, anti-Qur'anic, and anti-hadithic.

Point of correction, I am not deriding Jesus. I am not doing anything anti-Islamic unless you want to deceive yourself. You would have read his story in my book, compare the story in my book to that of your book. We muslims believe in all prophets including Jesus in which you are aware of. I dont want to go far cos it seems I have received nairalandian handshake but will still welcome any question as far as Islam is concerned.



May God lead your heart to true repentance from your ungodliness, and help you see that Jesus Christ the Son of God is the ONLY Saviour and hope for your soul.


Sister, stop deceiving yourself. I already believe in Jesus as the prophet and messenger of God sent to the Israelite wit the Gospel.
Re: Is Jesus God? by stimulus(m): 9:57am On Apr 30, 2007
@babs787,

babs787:

I should be the one asking you that. I thought you were a muslim and you might have read his story in my book. Are you telling me that the Gospel with you now is the one given to Jesus?

I should applaud pilgrims.1's concise rejoinder to that rubbish you posted there. You very well know that neither Christians nor Muslims pander to the so-called GNOSTIC Christ. When you reposted that excerpt, your opening comments were: "Read more about Jesus", and one should not be surprised that Islam promotes GNOSTICISM. And for all that, Muhammad yet did not know what to do with his tales of the 'christ' you copped out from the Essene.

babs787:

Point of correction, I am not deriding Jesus. I am not doing anything anti-Islamic unless you want to deceive yourself. You would have read his story in my book, compare the story in my book to that of your book. We muslims believe in all prophets including Jesus in which you are aware of. I don't want to go far because it seems I have received nairalandian handshake but will still welcome any question as far as Islam is concerned.

Nope, you Muslims believe in LOST books! You are the same person who claimed that the TORAH, INJIL and PSALMS of the Qur'an are lost; and you still are yet to address the question of where you get your stories from. Just take style stop deceiving yourself - there are no prophets you believe in; and that claim that you believe in "all the prophets" is a sham for your apologetic "lost" books. It is now obvious that you're on a godless adventure to deliberately calumnize Jesus Christ, which is only a reaction to the exposure of the cover-up that pilgrim.1 has been carefully offering readers. Glad to know that her posts are reaching you where you least expected.

babs787:

Sister, stop deceiving yourself. I already believe in Jesus as the prophet and messenger of God sent to the Israelite wit the Gospel.

That is why Muhammad didn't know what 'allah' would do to him after he died. What a pity.
Re: Is Jesus God? by babs787(m): 12:27pm On Apr 30, 2007
@stimulus




I should applaud pilgrims.1's concise rejoinder to that rubbish you posted there. You very well know that neither Christians nor Muslims pander to the so-called GNOSTIC Christ. When you reposted that excerpt, your opening comments were: "Read more about Jesus", and one should not be surprised that Islam promotes GNOSTICISM. And for all that, Muhammad yet did not know what to do with his tales of the 'christ' you copped out from the Essene.

Beating about the bush, defending the indefendable. Let me ask you, which came first, the Essenes or christianity?




Nope, you Muslims believe in LOST books! You are the same person who claimed that the TORAH, INJIL and PSALMS of the Qur'an are lost; and you still are yet to address the question of where you get your stories from. Just take style stop deceiving yourself - there are no prophets you believe in; and that claim that you believe in "all the prophets" is a sham for your apologetic "lost" books. It is now obvious that you're on a godless adventure to deliberately calumnize Jesus Christ, which is only a reaction to the exposure of the cover-up that pilgrim.1 has been carefully offering readers. Glad to know that her posts are reaching you where you least expected.

grin grin still making no sense. Trying to cover up the loopholes. It has been established, your bible is incomplete and not 100% the word of God. cheesy cheesy.




That is why Muhammad didn't know what 'allah' would do to him after he died. What a pity.

grin grin still not making sense,. Read more on the above and on the hadith you quoted therein
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-48586.32.html


grin
Re: Is Jesus God? by stimulus(m): 12:41pm On Apr 30, 2007
babs787:

Beating about the bush, defending the indefendable. Let me ask you, which came first, the Essenes or christianity?

What beating about the bush? Let me ask you: where did Muhammad take his version of religion from - Christianity or Essene?

babs787:

grin grin still making no sense. Trying to cover up the loopholes. It has been established, your bible is incomplete and not 100% the word of God cheesy cheesy

Still dribbling around the fact that your claim for the LOST injil, torah and Psalms have been exposed? If you have an ounce of honesty in your soul, why not admit to your contradiction of claiming the LOST injil while running to the Bible to quote Genesis, Deuteronomy, and those other books? If Muhammad's claim of prophethood is in the lost books, then that claim is LOST; and any attempt to quote the Bible is plain dishonesty.

babs787:

grin grin still not making sense,. Read more on the above and on the hadith you quoted therein
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-48586.32.html

What hadith? You guys make me laugh! How many issues have been offered to expose the fallacies in Muhammad's claims? The only thing you have been offering in your replies are endless denials of glaring evidence. We are used to the al-taqiyya of Islam, so there's nothing new in your typical responses.
Re: Is Jesus God? by gbadex1(m): 1:44pm On Apr 30, 2007
@ stimulus:

you just don't worry, blabs would be back again in a micro-second! That dude pulls more tricks than Nigerian Governors on Public Looting Schemes!!! cheesy
Re: Is Jesus God? by pilgrim1(f): 1:54pm On Apr 30, 2007
@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrims



By posting that excerpt above, are you trying to convince readers that the GNOSTIC Jesus of the Essene is the very one YOU believe in - the very same one that the QUR'AN proclaims??


I should be the one asking you that. I thought you were a muslim and you might have read his story in my book. Are you telling me that the Gospel with you now is the one given to Jesus?


It is such a pity that you take pleasure in deriding Jesus Christ at just about any instance and in any way that suits your calumny. Little do you realize that, not only are your efforts counter-productive, they are also anti-Islamic, anti-Qur'anic, and anti-hadithic.

Point of correction, I am not deriding Jesus. I am not doing anything anti-Islamic unless you want to deceive yourself. You would have read his story in my book, compare the story in my book to that of your book. We muslims believe in all prophets including Jesus in which you are aware of. I don't want to go far because it seems I have received nairalandian handshake but will still welcome any question as far as Islam is concerned.



May God lead your heart to true repentance from your ungodliness, and help you see that Jesus Christ the Son of God is the ONLY Saviour and hope for your soul.


Sister, stop deceiving yourself. I already believe in Jesus as the prophet and messenger of God sent to the Israelite wit the Gospel.

To be sure, I'm not deceiving myself; and I know exactly what I've been posting. The only thing you keep doing when presently with issues is to drivel on with pages of contradictions and denials, as if those help your cause at all.

It's okay to weep - I've actually see men do that. And if you churned for my pointing out to you that your post of the Essene doctrine of Christ is neither Christian nor Islamic, then my point is made. It only confirmed that you don't believe in Jesus Christ, and the verses you've been quoting from the Qur'an are mere cover-ups for your loopholes.

May God bring your to see who Jesus Christ truly is, so that your soul might be saved.
Re: Is Jesus God? by babs787(m): 4:19pm On Apr 30, 2007
@pilgrims

It's okay to weep - I've actually see men do that. And if you churned for my pointing out to you that your post of the Essene doctrine of Christ is neither Christian nor Islamic, then my point is made. It only confirmed that you don't believe in Jesus Christ, and the verses you've been quoting from the Qur'an are mere cover-ups for your loopholes.

Okay, I dont huh but the fact remains that the bible in incomplete huh.

Take care and please am extending friendship handshake to you, make you accept o. grin grin


@stimulus

Biko. I hit you real hard huh? I am laying the thread to rest, it has been established that the bible is 100% complete (yes ke), so no more drama, give Jesus a big handsssssssssssssssssssssssss, halleluiah grin grin grin

Sombode shout amen, oay extension of handshake grin grin
Re: Is Jesus God? by stimulus(m): 8:02pm On Apr 30, 2007
babs787:

Biko. I hit you real hard huh? I am laying the thread to rest, it has been established that the bible is 100% complete (yes ke), so no more drama

Hit me hard ke? No bros. My boss just happen to change the rules in the office - on a Monday morning fa!! To make matters worse, he's Muslim (with a golden tooth like a returnee from Hajj) grin cheesy Never mind, we get along very well. . . and I mean "very. . em, . . very very well!" grin

There's another kind of 'shaking' I'm extending to you too. If I hear one more word from you, woo. . . our usernames go change for Nairaland!! I go become stimulant for chemical reaction (Iran will be too slow); and you go turn to blasts787 (Kim Jong III??). cheesy

Fair enuf?? Enjoy!!
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 9:31pm On Apr 30, 2007
Jesus is the Son of God and not God himself. That is the problem we always have with our muslim brethren because we often say that Jesus i God.Let it be clear to all kiss
Re: Is Jesus God? by stimulus(m): 10:03pm On Apr 30, 2007
topefisayo:

Jesus is the Son of God and not God himself. That is the problem we always have with our muslim brethren because we often say that Jesus i God.Let it be clear to all kiss

Even the confession of Jesus as the Son of God is still a huge problem with Muslims.
Re: Is Jesus God? by babs787(m): 9:01am On May 02, 2007
@stimulus

lipsrsealed lipsrsealed lipsrsealed

grin grin
grin grin
Re: Is Jesus God? by alimat2(f): 3:51pm On Feb 23, 2009
Hello, Babs, i think i have little suggestion and its this,leave those that are calling Jesus GOD to continue,on the judgment day who shall all know the truth.Because Jesus himself said that is his sent by his father so how can the sent become the sender at the same time,and again is like they have 3 Gods that are working as one.BOBO GET IS RIGHT JESUS IS NOT GOD AND WILL NEVER BE GOD.
Re: Is Jesus God? by aboroma: 5:02pm On Feb 26, 2009
Jesus cannot be God. You comfutionist. It seems you dont know much or anything about the religion you follow. Kindly see how you are deceived .Copyright © By Dr. Adel Elsaie, Book Title: "History of Truth, The Truth about God and Religions"


6.9 The Ecumenical Councils of Church

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The First Council in Nicaea I - 325

The Second Council in Constantinople I - 381

The Third Council in Ephesus - 431

The Fourth Council in Chalcedon - 451

The Fifth Council in Constantinople II - 553

The Sixth Council of Constantinople III - 680-81

The Seventh Council of Nicaea II - 787

The word Ecumenical means the whole Catholic Church. The arguments of Fathers of the Church lead to confusing the average Christians about the relationship of the Father with the Son. A fierce theological passion occurred in the Churches of Egypt, Syria and Asia Minor. Gregory, Bishop of Nyssa complained that he could not obtain a straight answer to a simple question "If you ask someone to give you change, he philosophizes about the begotten and the unbegotten. If you say to an attendant: Is my bath ready, he will tell you that the Son was made out of nothing." Buying bread from a bakery turns to a heated argument about whether or not the Father is greater than the Son. These kinds of Byzantine arguments were heating up everywhere and on all levels of intellect. Is the Son of the same substance as the Father, or is it a similar substance? Does Jesus have one or two natures? Is the Son co-eternal with God or not? What is the relation of Christ to God the father? In what sense can God be the father, son, and the holy spirit, and yet still be one? How can there be a God with true unity combined with true diversity? During that time, no one can possibly prove anything definitively one way or another. The whole Byzantine Empire transformed into scholarly theologians! It is interesting to note that in the present day Egypt, the expression Byzantine argument means a useless argument in which each opposing party could never prove their point of views!

At the middle of the third century, political crises, inflation, civil war, drastic trade recession, and barbarian invasions almost brought the collapse of the Roman Empire. In 284, the emperor Diocletian took power with the army’s support. For the first nineteen years of his reign, persecution of the Church was not supported and the Church prospered in numbers. But the infiltration of Christianity in high places was strong, mainly through the governor’s wives. Diocletian died in 306, and the army chose his son Constantine as his successor. Constantine’s mother may have had Christian sympathies.

The average Christian may not know that councils of senior pastors established the Christian doctrine. Those pastors were arguing about theological subjects that Jesus himself did not introduce. A prerequisite for the appointment of an official in the councils was to have "charisma" which means that he was filled with the Holy Ghost. So when councils with famous members met, the Holy Ghost was among them, omnipotent and active!

The assembly of the first seven Ecumenical Councils of the early Christian world would establish the standards of the doctrine and hierarchy of the new religion. Usually pastors that represented the opposition to the final agreement of the council were fired or transferred to smaller churches. It is worthwhile to pause and take a look at how the Councils came into being and what decisions were made by them - presumably for all eternity. It is also important to examine the political background that surrounded the decision making process that changed Christianity forever.


The First Council in Nicaea I - 325

The first Ecumenical Council took place in Nicaea. Constantine sought to exploit the rapidly expanding religion, with its great potential, to strengthen the Roman Empire. Constantine was persuaded that the disunity of the church was destabilizing the empire. In 324 he felt sure that soon he would go to the Holy Land to see the sacred sites, and to be baptized in Jordan. But his plan was abruptly aborted. He found the Greek churches in Egypt, Palestine, Syria and Asia Minor boiling with controversy about the nature of Jesus. The intense theological emotion started in Alexandria by the charismatic presbyter Arius, who had a soft and impressive voice. He issued a challenge to his bishop Alexander, that the latter found impossible to ignore and even more difficult to argue: how could Jesus have been God of the same substance like God the father? Arius argued that it was blasphemous to think that Jesus was divine by nature. Jesus had specifically said that the father was greater than he. Alexander and his assistant Athanasius immediately realized the theological problem. Arius was asking vital questions about the nature of Jesus and his relationship to God. Arius followed the concept of the divine trinity as Origen had taught. It was not easy to endorse that the son and the father as being identical or of one substance without fairly complicated clarifications. Origen had felt the difficulty himself. He avoided the problem by saying that Jesus’ relation to God is a characteristic of divine life. Arius reasoned that Jesus, who was physically born of Mary, grew in wisdom "Logos", suffered failure and death must be less than the unbegotten, deathless, and eternal father. He believed that God is beyond Jesus, and that Jesus coming on Earth was by the will of God, and not by the will of Jesus. Arius therefore clashed with a principle strongly stated by Irenaeus: "Through God alone can God be known."

Arius was not an idiot; he received the support from scholarly and politically powerful bishops. He knew the scriptures well and produced many texts to support his claim that Jesus, the Word, could only be a creature like us. The Logos had been the instrument used by God to bring all creatures into existence. The Word or the Logos had to be entirely different from God. He believed that Jesus had lived a perfect life; he had obeyed God even unto his death on the cross, notwithstanding the last words of Jesus on the cross according to Matthew. He contended that humans by imitating Jesus, the perfect creature, they too would be perfect creatures of God. Alexander and Athanasius harassed Arius. They had a different view regarding the weakness of humanity. Athanasius saw the need for God Himself to descent on earth and be crucified to save humanity because God alone is the Perfect Being. So a domestic dispute in Alexandria became a wide crisis in the Byzantine Empire!

When Constantine selected and brought together 318 bishops for the Council, it was a military and political decision. He needed the support of the new religion in his battles. He claimed that he saw a vision of the Cross in the middle of the sun, his god before converting to Christianity in his last day. Even the bishops had no illusion about that, for not only did the Emperor preside over the Council, he also proclaimed that his will was a divine law. The senior pastors accepted him as a "Universal Bishop" even though he was not baptized, and they let him take part in votes on church doctrine. Constantine was completely ignorant of Jesus’ teachings. He was a follower of the solar monotheism of Mithras (the ancient Iranian god of light), who was portrayed on coins as the "invincible sun". When Constantine gave his name to the old Greek commercial city of Byzantium and made Constantinople in 330, five years after the Council, the capital of the Roman Empire, he had a mighty column erected for the ceremonial opening with the Emperor and the "invincible sun god" on the top of it.

When the bishops gathered to resolve the crisis, very few bishops shared Athanasius’ view of Christ. Most held position between Arius and Athanasius. Nevertheless, Athanasius used his powerful skills of argument to impose his theology on the bishops with the support of the atheist emperor. Only Arius and two companions refused to sign this creed. The creed stated, "the Creator, God the father, and the Redeemer, Son of God, were of the same nature, and that Jesus is the only begotten of the father." This absolutely vital Christian law became the church’s canon by imperial decree. That is how Jesus became identical with God. With this as a foundation, the bishops took Pauline Christianity to another level.

After the council, the bishops went on teaching the new creed, and the Arian crisis continued for another sixty years. Arius and his followers fought back and managed to regain imperial favor. Athanasius was exiled about five times. It was still very difficult to explain this creed because it was not in the scriptures and had pagan association. To an outsider or to an average Christian, these theological arguments seemed a waste of time: no one can possibly prove anything definitively one way or another, and the dispute simply proved to be divisive. No one disagreed about the special place that Christ holds, but the question remained in very many minds: What is Jesus Christ? Pauline Christianity had always been an inconsistent faith. Now at the first council, the church had added another paradox of incarnation, despite its apparent incompatibility with monotheism.

The atheist Constantine did the church another enormous favor. He was led by "divine inspiration" to discover the grave of Jesus, who had just become of the same substance of God. However, in spite of his spiritual inspiration and moral Christian values, Constantine did not stop murdering his close relatives during the same year: his son, his wife whom he had plunged into boiling water, and his father in law whom he forced to commit suicide. This is the image of the emperor and the Universal Bishop who managed the Nicene Creed, and who, when the council was over, told the Christians that the agreement was "the decision of God."

The Second Council in Constantinople I - 381

The first council provided the duality of God, while the second Ecumenical council extended the duality to the trinity. The emperor Theodosius I (347-395), who was appreciated when he made the Christian doctrine as the state religion, convened the second council at Constantinople. The church gave him the name "the Great". This Roman emperor was an oppressor of the poor. He overwhelmed the people with intolerable taxes. With his full imperial power, he prevented anyone to give refuge to his oppressed people. If they did so, he had all the inhabitants of the offending village slaughtered. In the year 390, he had seven thousand rebellious citizens murdered in a frightful blood bath; at the same time the "Halleluiah" came to be used in the Christian churches.

In this council, the dogma of the trinity of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost was introduced and agreed upon as the church doctrine. Theodosius instructed the recognition of the "Nicene Creed," and the Council extended the worshipping to the Holy Ghost beside the Father and the Son. Also, the council declared the Holy Ghost to be made of the same substance of God. Today the church still feeds on this dogma of trinity that was added under Theodosius the Great.

The Third Council in Ephesus - 431

During this second phase of the next four councils, the center of interest shifted from the trinity to the identity of Christ. If Christ is truly God, then in what sense is he also human? And if at the same time God and man are the same, how can he be one? To answer these difficult questions, the Virgin Mary had to be brought in the picture. Notice the step by step formulation of the Christian doctrine that was never mentioned in the scriptures, even though their authenticity is highly questionable.

The East Roman emperor Theodosius II (408-450) and the West Roman emperor Valentianus III (425-455) convened this third Ecumenical Council. These two emperors were not really interested in religion or complicated theology. They were young and fun loving. Theodosius II devoted himself wholly to his hobbies, and tyrannically levied taxes on his subjects to pay for his extravagant way of life. It is no wonder that Theodosius was completely under the influence of his power hungry elder sister Pulcheria (399-453). For some time she acted as a regent for her brother and publicized herself as a virgin. After her brother’s death, she had his rival murdered. As for the West Roman Empire, Valentianus was controlled by his mother, and ultimately was assassinated.

This council declared that the Virgin Mary is "God’s bearer" or "Mother of God." The council stated that what Mary bore, was not a human closely united with God, but a single and undivided entity who is God and man at the same time. One attendant who expressed reservation on the title "God’s bearer" was condemned for making a big deal of contrast between Jesus the God and Jesus the man. The council of Ephesus led to a lasting division between the East and the West. The Christians in east Syria and Mesopotamia, living mainly in the Persian Empire and outside the Byzantine borders, felt unable to accept that definition of Mary. While in the West, it was believed that the Church of the East divided Christ into two different entities.


The Fourth Council in Chalcedon - 451

Unable to obtain a fair hearing at the third council, the Christians from Antioch were, to some extent, reinstated at the fourth ecumenical council at Chalcedon. This council was formally convened by the Byzantine emperor Marcianus (396-457), but in reality it was run by the virgin Pulcheria, who had married Marcianus after the death of her brother Theodosius. She knew far better than the bishops what she wanted. She convened the council against the will of the various churches, and she held the deliberations firmly in her hand.

Pope Leo I initiated the dogmatic formula that Jesus had two natures. The council proclaimed the doctrine that divine and human nature are inseparably united in the person Jesus. This was an attempt to compromise and strike a balance between the Alexandrine and Antiochene approaches, allowing for both the diversity and the unity within the incarnate Christ. However, in Alexandria they felt that Antioch had imposed their approach on them, and this further increased the division between the churches. They were willing to say that Christ is "from two natures" but not that he is "in two natures." This double nature still persists as the Chalcedon creed. The council also entrusted the preservation of the unity of the doctrine to the Pope, who would intervene when he saw fit. This is how the religious dominance of Rome started. Today the Vatican people must still be grateful to Pulcheria for pushing through the council of Chalcedon.

The Fifth Council in Constantinople II - 553

The East Roman emperor Justinian I (483-565) staged this council. The bishops of this council had virtually nothing major to do. Anything that Justinian had in mind had been achieved long before by imperial decrees and laws. It is not without irony that this assembly is described in the theological literature as the "council of acclamation." Justinian summoned Pope Vigilius (537-555) who was later quoted by opponents of Papal infallibility to prove their case. Vigilius and the bishops submitted themselves to the powerful political interest of the emperor, who found his place in history books because of his savage laws against heretics. Therefore, a heretic was defined as anyone who denied the Christian doctrine, and was subject to savage punishment, or death. An army of Roman officials tracked down dissenters, rounding them up in droves and forcing them to accept the Christian baptism on Justinian’s orders. The third council proclaimed that "God was born", and this council stated that "God died", and the lord was "crucified in flesh." This council also condemned the critical examination of the Bible by Origen for his deviations as unorthodox. When the council took this decision, persecution was not confined to Origen’s numerous followers; it also included many others who were not following all the decrees of the councils.


The Sixth Council of Constantinople III - 680-81

The saga of the dual nature of Jesus continued in this council. The council researched the question that if Jesus had two natures; did he have one or two wills? If Jesus was genuinely human, then he must have possessed authentic human freedom. The fourth council gave Jesus two natures, and the sixth council gave him two wills; a divine will as well as a human will. This was a compromise between two opposing parties. Both parties agreed that Christ was truly divine as well as truly human. It was ironic that in the two centuries following the fourth council a lasting agreement between the two sides proved impossible.


The Seventh Council of Nicaea II - 787


The next stage of the Christian era of the seventh council was another controversy about icons. By icons is meant an image, visual representation, or a statue of Christ, the Virgin Mary, the Angels, and saints. It may take the form of a painted panel of wood, but could be a mosaic on the church’s wall, a portrait in metal, or a statue, although statues were extremely rare in the East Christian art. The first attack on the use of icons lasted from 726 until 780. This conflict, as usual, needed imperial politics, and the Empress Irene brought it to an end. Therefore the council convened by the Empress, and stated that it was theologically correct to depict Jesus, Mary, and the saints as icons. In 843, Empress Theodora ordered the restoration of the holy icons. It is interesting that the imperial champions of icon adoration should both have been women, who happened to like art. This seventh council finally transformed the monotheistic religion of Jesus Christ to a polytheistic and pagan religion.

It is important to know the history of the evolution of Christian doctrines that was developed by humans and not by Jesus. Humans developed serious and complex fundamental Christian concepts. If these concepts were true, they should have been spelled out plainly by Jesus in the clearest way. They should not have been left to human interpretations of the Fathers of the Church or the Ecumenical Councils of Church. The job of the messenger of God is to deliver clearly the message of God and live as a role model of the teachings of the religion. This is what Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad did. The messages of Moses and Jesus were blurred and smeared by tribal feud and outrageous incorrect interpretations. On the other hand, Muhammad kept the message of God faithfully and steadfastly.


Consequently, it is important to remember the story of the people of Noah, and how the devil convinced them to commemorate the righteous people by making pictures of them. The next step was to persuade the people to make statues for those righteous people. The last step was to worship the statues, and that was when God sent Noah to them. These stories of the past, we see in churches today. And there is no difference between a Christian church, and a Buddhist or Hindu temple; they all have statues that people worship. Christians, in churches, are presented by the pure moral teachings of Jesus Christ, Peace and Blessing of Allah be upon him, mixed with polytheism and paganism. The memories of moral values affect anyone and make them feel good, while the Emperors and Empresses smile from beyond!

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eceived.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 5:06pm On Feb 26, 2009
alimat 2:

Hello, Babs, i think i have little suggestion and its this,leave those that are calling Jesus GOD to continue,on the judgment day who shall all know the truth.Because Jesus himself said that is his sent by his father so how can the sent become the sender at the same time,and again is like they have 3 Gods that are working as one.BOBO GET IS RIGHT JESUS IS NOT GOD AND WILL NEVER BE GOD.

which automatically means He wasnt "sent" by Allah because islam says allah begets no one and you are all nothing but his slaves.
Re: Is Jesus God? by aboroma: 5:42pm On Feb 26, 2009
More for you to ponder on:
See how the Noble Quran addressed all of them (the trinities).





Introduction:

Both the Noble Quran and the Bible claim that GOD Almighty is an Absolute One and only One:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4)"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. (From the NIV Bible, Mark 12:29)"

Notice also how Jesus said "our God", which included him to be under GOD Almighty's creation and Divine Authority, and not someone or an entity that is equal to GOD Almighty.



The Bible's New Testament also records Jesus saying: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"



If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?

I have yet to see a good answer to this one by any polytheist trinitarian.



Also, another important point to notice in Mark 10:18 is the word "alone": ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"

Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to GOD Almighty when he said "alone". If Jesus was truly part of GOD Almighty and/or the trinity lie was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that.



My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's absurdities regarding Mark 10:18 where Jesus said he was not "good".







1- Answering Trinity:

*** Trinitarian Christians often refer to trinity as the "Holy Trinity". A very powerful statement indeed for a satanic word that doesn't even exist, not even once, in the Bible!!



(a) The Absolute Oneness of GOD Almighty in the Bible:

The early Christians rejected Trinity. Early Christians had major problems and disagreements about who truly Jesus was and whether or not he got crucified or not.

Early Christians' Doctrines confirm Jesus DID NOT GET crucified. See proofs that the early Christians' scriptures during the 1st and 2nd centuries claimed that GOD Almighty Saved Jesus from crucifixion.

The New Testament confirms the Apocalypse (Revelation in Greek) of Peter which claims that Jesus never died on the cross!

The "God" title in the Bible was given to others in the Old and New Testaments. Answering Isaiah 9:6. The "El" (God) title that was given to Jesus in the Old Testament, and the "HOTHEOS" (God) title in the New Testament, were given to others before and after Jesus in the Bible. The only UNIQUE title that exists in the Bible is "Yahweh", which means "The Eternal".

Emanuel, Emmanuel, Yahshua, Yeshua, Yashua, Immanuel and Imanuel. These were all "Godly" names given to others before and after Jesus in the Bible. None of them is unique. Only "Yahweh" was GOD Almighty's Unique Name.


My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "How can Jesus be God when the Hebrew Bible says God is not a man?" article.




Jesus had no Divine Will according to the New Testament. How could he be our Creator?
Ten detailed sub sections in this article:
1- Jesus said he had no Divine Will.
2- Jesus' repetitive Prayers contradicted his very own teachings.
3- Jesus begged GOD Almighty for Mercy.
4- Jesus prostrated to GOD Almighty only once during his most desperate times! This is hypocrisy by the way.
5- GOD Almighty Created pain and death, and yet, Jesus feared them.
6- The GOD of the O.T. Punishes to death those who cursed HIS HOLY NAME. How could Jesus escape to Egypt from King Herod and still be this Mighty and Arrogant GOD?
7- In original Hebrew, "son of GOD" literally means "SERVANT OF GOD". See proofs.
8- What about the authority in Heaven and Earth that was given to Jesus?
9- None of Jesus' Miracles were unique in the Bible.
10- Conclusion.



History of the Bible's Corruption! None of Jesus' disciples witnessed the crucifixion. They "all fled" and "deserted" Jesus. This further proves Islam's claims!
No one knows who wrote the Bible's books and gospels. None of Jesus' disciples wrote any of the gospels! See comments from the NIV Bible's theologians, and historical and archeological proofs that clearly prove this.

Are these Paul's words or GOD Almighty's Divine and UNCOMPROMISED Revelations??!!


For a lot more details and proofs, please visit: Contradictions and Detailed History of the Bible's Corruption.





Anyway, continuing on,

Obvious mistranslations of the Hebrew Manuscripts. See proofs of alterations and deceptions done by the Jews and Christians to disprove Islam in the Bible.

Answering Trinity- A full proof from the Bible that Jesus is not GOD.

The Hidden Truth: Trinity.

The absolute Oneness of GOD Almighty in the Bible's Old Testament.

Texts referring to GOD as "One, Alone, None Other, None Else".

Principles of Bible Interpretation about GOD Almighty.

The word "LORD" in the Bible referring to the Almighty GOD alone.

The word "Elohim" proves Trinity?

More on absolute Oneness of GOD Almighty in the Bible's Old Testament.

****** The "God" title in the Bible was given to others in the OT and NT. Answering Isaiah 9:6. The "El" (God) title that was given to Jesus in the Old Testament, and the "HOTHEOS" (God) title in the New Testament, were given to others before and after Jesus in the Bible. The only UNIQUE title that exists in the Bible is "Yahweh", which means "The Eternal".


Emanuel, Emmanuel, Yahshua, Yeshua, Yashua, Immanuel and Imanuel. These were all "Godly" names given to others before and after Jesus in the Bible. None of them is unique. Only "Yahweh" was GOD Almighty's Unique Name.



My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "How can Jesus be God when the Hebrew Bible says God is not a man?" article.

Answering Jeremiah 23:5-6: A big blow to Sam Shamoun's trinity nonsense existing in the Old Testament.

My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "Refuting Osama Abdallah on Jeremiah 23:5-6" article.

The Bible directly claims that ANY "Son of GOD" is a "God"! (Refutation to Jesus' being God meaning that he is GOD Almighty).


"Let us create" in Genesis 1:26-27 doesn't prove trinity. See how the Bible clearly defines "our likeness" and "our image" as having the knowledge of Good and evil, and not physically looking like GOD Almighty, which soundly refutes the lie of trinity.

Genesis 1:26 Re-interpreted.


Does GOD's spirit in Jesus prove that Jesus is GOD? Others had it too. GOD's Spirit came upon many others beside Jesus.

Jesus being at GOD Almighty's "Right Hand" is only SYMBOLIC and not literal in the Bible.

"Jesus is my lord and savior" actually CONTRADICTS the Old Testament. The Old Testament clearly talks about Believing in One GOD Almighty and doing Righteousness saving you. No need for mediators (Jesus or idols) between you and GOD Almighty, your Creator.

Did GOD Almighty really appear in A FORM OF A MAN to Abraham in Genesis 17 and 18 (specifically in Genesis 18:2)?

The figurative speech in the Bible proves that Jesus must not be MAGNIFIED to the level of the Creator!

Evolution of the Deity Of Christ Throughout the Gospels.

Rebuttal to Answering Islam's Article "Why Did God Become Human?"

Rebuttal to Answering Islam's Article "On The Philosophical Necessity of the Trinity Based On The Attributes Of God".

Trinitarians do Worship Three God's.

Trinity is false according to many Biblical verses in both the Old and New Testaments. By Pierre Leverette.

Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "The Incomprehensible Nature of God and his Son" article. Thoroughly refuting and exposing Sam Shamoun's trinity-lies and absurdities in Proverbs 30:4 where he tried to falsely prove trinity through it.







(b) Jesus and his personal claims:


A serious forgery in Luke 24:44-48 about Jesus' "resurrection on the third day" claiming that it was foretold in the OT when it wasn't!

Forgery of Matthew 23.

Psalm 22 and 88 confirm Islam's claim about Jesus never got crucified.

What does "Jesus is the heir" really mean? Does it mean he is the heir of GOD Almighty, or is this just another trinitarian lie?

Was Jesus really sinless? AUDIO session.

Jesus is a hypocrite for bowing down to GOD only during his desperate times. See another proof in the Bible that Jesus can not be the Creator of the Universe.

Jesus using the word "Muslim" in Luke 6:40.

Jesus said: I do not know, only GOD Almighty Knows, when he was asked about the Hour.

10 Reasons why Jesus is not God!

Did Jesus really forgive sins? Or is this another trinity lie?

Jesus had no Divine Will according to the New Testament. How could he be our Creator?
Ten detailed sub sections in this article:
1- Jesus said he had no Divine Will.
2- Jesus' repetitive Prayers contradicted his very own teachings.
3- Jesus begged GOD Almighty for Mercy.
4- Jesus prostrated to GOD Almighty only once during his most desperate times! This is hypocrisy by the way.
5- GOD Almighty Created pain and death, and yet, Jesus feared them.
6- The GOD of the O.T. Punishes to death those who cursed HIS HOLY NAME. How could Jesus escape to Egypt from King Herod and still be this Mighty and Arrogant GOD?
7- In original Hebrew, "son of GOD" literally means "SERVANT OF GOD". See proofs.
8- What about the authority in Heaven and Earth that was given to Jesus?
9- None of Jesus' Miracles were unique in the Bible.
10- Conclusion.



Is Jesus God in the Quran?

Is Jesus God Because Satan Called Him "The Holy One Of God"?

Would you take this man as God?

God has God?

Dead men walking.

Satan's temptations for 40 days to Jesus and his cause of SUFFERING to him prove that Jesus is not and can not be GOD.

"Brother MENJ's paper on Jesus obeying satan. How can Jesus be the Creator of the Universe when he was tempted by satan and obeyed him for a little while? This clearly takes away Jesus' perfection and the false claim about him being the Creator of the Universe.

How could satan offer Jesus the earth if he knew that Jesus was his and the earth's Creator?

Jesus in the Bible GUARANTEED Paradise to non-Trinitarians and even non-Christians who are Monotheists. I further proved that the Bible's interpretation by trinitarian Christians is bogus. According to the verses mentioned in the article, Jesus in the NT is clearly not the only salvation to GOD Almighty. Otherwise, we are left with a major CONTRADICTION in the Bible between Jesus being the only salvation to GOD Almighty, and Jesus not being the only one. At any rate, the most ironic thing of all is that trinity is all based on man's interpretation. The word itself, "trinity", does not even exist in the Bible. Not even once! Yet, it is the central faith to most Christians today.

"Jesus is my lord and savior" actually CONTRADICTS the Old Testament. The Old Testament clearly talks about Believing in One GOD Almighty and doing Righteousness saving you. No need for mediators (Jesus or idols) between you and GOD Almighty, your Creator.

Questions about Jesus and Trinity that Trinitarian Christians don't have logical answers for.

Jesus is the "Word" in both the Bible and the Noble Quran.

The Sahih Muslim Hadiths say that Jesus is GOD Almighty's Word and Spirit - Does this mean that Jesus is Allah Almighty?

Jesus' Miracles were not unique in the Bible.

The Bible directly claims that ANY "Son of GOD" is a "God"! (Refutation to Jesus' being God meaning that he is GOD Almighty).

The definition of "Son of God" in Islam.

Son of GOD: Some Muslims' Misconception.

"Son of Man" does not mean "GOD" or "Son of GOD"

Can we trust the Son of Man?


"Son of God" literally means "Servant of God" in Hebrew. Bible agrees with Islam, not with pagan trinity and today's wrong and twisted translations of "Son of God".

Obvious mistranslations of the Hebrew Manuscripts. See proofs of alterations and deceptions done by the Jews and Christians to disprove Islam in the Bible.


How can Jesus be GOD Almighty when he asked for GOD's Forgiveness?

Jesus the "Alpha and Omega". Not only this quote doesn't prove Jesus as GOD, but it was also written in a book that is unreliable in later bibles. In the original Bibles, the quote doesn't even exist!!

Arche of the Creation of God as Alpha and Omega. The "Alpha and Omega" doesn't even exist in the original Bibles! It's a lie that was later inserted by trinitarians. See the historical proofs in the article. If their site is down, then you can read the article at this link ON MY SITE.

Does Jesus saying "I am" prove that he is GOD? See how the Hebrew "I am" that Jesus said is different than the Hebrew "I am" that GOD Almighty said in the OT.

Jesus Said He Was God?

Do People and Angels bowing down to Jesus in Worship really prove that he is the Creator of the Universe? See how the word "Worship" used for Jesus doesn't even exist in the original Greek Bibles. The Trinitarian English translations are nothing but hoaxes and deceptions. The article responds to Matthew 15:9 and other English mistranslated verses in the Bible. Also, what about when David "prostrated" with his face down to the ground to Saul? Was David worshiping Saul?

Is the Prophet Daniel God?

Answering John 1:1.

Examining John 1:1 - Part I.
- Part II.

Doesn’t John 1:1 prove that Jesus is God?

Hebrews 5:7-8 confirm Islam's claim about Jesus never got crucified and contradicts the Bible! According to the documentary film, "Banned from the Bible", which I watched on the History Channel, some of Saint Peter's apocalypse were banned from the current Bible, and these Epistles contain what Islam claims - that Jesus didn't get crucified on the cross and it only appeared that he was. This banned part also says that Jesus was standing next to the cross laughing. These are the parts of the Bible that only few people in the world know about.

According to the documentary film, the apocalypse was very popular among Christians during the 2nd century. They believed "it was spiritually inspired" by GOD Almighty to Saint Peter. They actually had doubts about "John's apocalypse", which is known today as "the Book of Revelation". Interestingly also, this apocalypse says that after GOD Almighty fills both Heaven and Hell with inhabitants from Mankind, and the people of Hell get tortured for a long period of time, the People of Heaven will ask and Pray to GOD Almighty to Forgive the people of Hell. GOD Almighty will then eventually listen to their Prayers, and will order the "Gates and the Steel Bars of Hell" to be opened and allow the people of Hell to enter Heaven for Good. This apocalypse of Peter seems to also perfectly fit Noble Verse 7:40 in the Noble Quran where Allah Almighty Promised that He will eventually open the Gates of Heaven to all disbelievers and empty Hell. Please visit: Hell will eventually be empty according to Islam.

Chapter Psalm 91 clearly and indisputably confirms that Jesus never got crucified!


Did Isaiah 53 really prophesies about the crucifixion of Jesus?
It supports Islam's claims about Jesus peace be upon him never died on the cross. I also addressed John 19:36-37 from the Bible and proved that Jesus never got crucified, since GOD Almighty promised that he will protect Jesus' body and not let even a single bone be broken. My question to all Christians is: How in the world is it possible for the feet to get nailed on the cross without any penetration to the bones by the nails, hence breaking part of the feet's bones?! I also added refutations to Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12, Zechariah 12:10 and Psalm 34:20, which supposedly prove the Christians' belief about Jesus crucifixion. I proved that this dogma has no truth what so ever and exposed the wrong Trinitarian English translation of Zechariah 12:10. I also showed in Isaiah 52:13 ", he will be raised and lifted up, ", which clearly and perfectly agrees with Islam about Jesus never died on the cross. "Raised and lifted" suggests that Jesus will be picked up right from the cross, or saved right from the cross by Allah Almighty. It suggests that Jesus will not die, nor get crucified, but rather be raised and lifted by GOD Almighty to Heavens.


Brother Abdullah Smith wrote an excellent on Isaiah 53 article at:

The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53.
- Part II.
- Part III.


None of Jesus' disciples witnessed the crucifixion. They "all fled" and "deserted" Jesus. This further confirms Islam's claims.

Jesus was never "disfigured beyond human recognition" in the New Testament as the Old Testament predicted!

Did Jews continually try to stone Jesus prove that he claimed to be GOD?

Is Jesus God because some of the Jews accused him of making himself as God?

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Does that make him GOD?

Did Jesus ever claim to be "Mighty God" or "God"? Responding to the "I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)" claim.

John 10:30, I and My Father are One.

Jesus claimed that whoever saw him saw the Father. Wouldn't that prove that Jesus is GOD Himself (i.e., the Creator of the Universe)?

Thomas is misunderstood in verse John 20:28.

Do chapter Psalm 110 and Matthew 22:41-46 ("The LORD said to my Lord"wink prove that Jesus is the Creator of the Universe?

My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "Examining Psalm 110:1" article.

Is Jesus Yahweh?

Jesus' crucifixion and the end of the World.

Christians Use of Jesus Being Called The Lamb Of God And Him Taking Away The Sins Of The World.

Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's article on Jesus admitting that only the Father is the only true GOD.

The Evolution on the character of Jesus in the New Testament Gospels.

Is Jesus God Because He Said That His Words Will Never Pass Away?

Why Didn't Jesus Plainly Say He Was God?

Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's Article "Thomas's Confession 'My Lord and my God!'"

Who is Jesus?

Is Jesus God because He said Honor him as you Honor the Father?

Is Jesus God because He Forgave Sins?

Paul the Prisoner of Jesus Christ.







(c) Other "Trinity?" Verses:

Pat Robertson is a perfect example of how trinity causes brain damage to its deceived followers!

The Beliefs of Christians is Similar to that of the Pagans according to Saint Justin Martyr.

Does calling Jesus "Son of God" prove that he is GOD?

Does Psalm 16:8-11 refer to Jesus' resurrection as the book of Acts suggest?

Does Psalm 2:7 refer to Jesus or King David?

"Son of Man" does not mean "GOD" or "Son of GOD"

Can we trust the Son of Man?

Does Genesis 1:1-3 really refer to Trinity?

Does Genesis 19:24 really prove Trinity?

Philippians 2 is not a Trinity "Proof Text".

Proverbs 8 contains no proof of Trinity!

Does Baptizing prove Trinity?

"Jesus" does not mean "God saves".

Does the word "Messiah" really mean GOD?

Rebuttal to the lie about the Arabic name "Eesa (Jesus)" originating from Hindu and Pagan gods.

Jesus' original name is Eesa. See detailed proofs from Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic.

Jacob does not mean "fought with GOD" as many Christians believe.





(d) Other verses on paganism in Christianity:

Persecution of Early Unitarian Churches in Malabar, Abyssinia and Ireland.

The pagan Christianity's Trinity is the same as the Hindu's Trinity.

Chapter 3: The Christian Holidays and the Christian Calendar.

Who are we to please?

Some Christians do worship Mary!

Is the Noble Quran wrong regarding Mary?

Contradictions in Trinity.

The Nature of Jesus in the Bible refutes Trinity.

The Trinity belief fails the exam.

Historical background of the Trinity.

The Creed of St. Athanasius.

The Doctrine of the TRINITY, Mystery or Confusion?

Jewish and Muslim sites that disprove Trinity.

Contradictions In the Resurrection Story.

What language did Jesus really speak during his ministry?

Funny Trinity. Some humor about Trinity that is true.

Jesus was never crucified according to the Gospel of Barnabas.





2- History of Man's Corruption in the Bible:

* Christians believe that the Gospels of John, Matthew, Luke and Mark are GOD Almighty's Revelations/Inspirations. Where does it say so in their Gospels? And where do we see anyone claiming ownership of those Gospels?

History of Man's Corruption in the Bible. The Bible was not even written by the Prophets of GOD and the Disciples of Jesus.

Is the entire Bible truly the Word of GOD?

The lie of 1 John 5:7.

The lie of 1 John 5:7 and Timothy 3:16.

Contradicting translations on 1 John 5:7.

The invalidity of the Trinity belief from the Theologians' views.

Christian Scholars refuting the status of the NT as an inspired scripture. (19 detailed sections filled with many quotes).

Who were the real authors of the Bible?

The original Bible was lost! See comments from the NIV Bible itself. No one ever claimed ownership of the current Gospels. The owners/writers are unknown.

Books mentioned in the Bible that are not part of the "Today's Bible".

Contradictions in 2 Timothy 3:16.

Is the Bible 100% faultless and unhampered with by the Church?

Where did our modern Bibles come from? Grave defects in the Bible.

Where did the discarded verses come from in the first place?

How many books of the Bible are 'truly inspired'?

How did the Church handle the "differences in the Bibles" problem?

Where did the King James Bible come from?

How did the Church explain all these centuries of tampering?

82% of the words of Jesus are not his.

Did mankind tamper with the Old Testament?

When is a book an 'inspired' book?

Ancient paganism and the dangers of compromise.

Pagans influence in the Christians' methods of worship today.

Famous Theologians and Historians believe that Paul was not truthful.

The authors of the New Testament have conflicts with each others. How about for Paul to punch Peter on the face?? That would've been "inspired", wouldn't it?

The Gospel of John: Gospel or Gossip?

Why do Muslims only believe in Jesus' personal quotes from the Bible?

A dangerous forgery was inserted at the end of the so-called "Gospel of Mark"

"Son of GOD" conflict between the Bible and the Noble Quran.

Are most Christians of today idol worshipers?

The Bible says: The earth is flat!

Textual Variants of the Bible.







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Re: Is Jesus God? by babs787(m): 7:43pm On Feb 27, 2009
shocked shocked shocked
Re: Is Jesus God? by Pelumiv(m): 5:54pm On Feb 28, 2009
its a well known fact dat trinity comes from pagan teachins and nt frm d bible.even d word trinity can nt b found anywhere in d bible.2 prove 2 d trinitarians dat their belief is nt biblelical,i will start will dis bible verse john 17:3. ) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.This bible verse clearly shows dat God is distinctly different 4rm Jesus dat he sent 2 earth.consider:if Jesus is d same with God,hw will it b possible 4 him 2 die and still wake up on d third day.when will all no dat God cant die.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Pelumiv(m): 6:09pm On Feb 28, 2009
How Did the Trinity Doctrine Develop?

AT THIS point you might ask: ‘If the Trinity is not a Biblical teaching, how did it become a doctrine of Christendom?’ Many think that it was formulated at the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E.

That is not totally correct, however. The Council of Nicaea did assert that Christ was of the same substance as God, which laid the groundwork for later Trinitarian theology. But it did not establish the Trinity, for at that council there was no mention of the holy spirit as the third person of a triune Godhead.

Constantine’s Role at Nicaea

FOR many years, there had been much opposition on Biblical grounds to the developing idea that Jesus was God. To try to solve the dispute, Roman emperor Constantine summoned all bishops to Nicaea. About 300, a fraction of the total, actually attended.

Constantine was not a Christian. Supposedly, he converted later in life, but he was not baptized until he lay dying. Regarding him, Henry Chadwick says in The Early Church: “Constantine, like his father, worshipped the Unconquered Sun; . . . his conversion should not be interpreted as an inward experience of grace . . . It was a military matter. His comprehension of Christian doctrine was never very clear, but he was sure that victory in battle lay in the gift of the God of the Christians.”

What role did this unbaptized emperor play at the Council of Nicaea? The Encyclopædia Britannica relates: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, ‘of one substance with the Father’ . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.”

Hence, Constantine’s role was crucial. After two months of furious religious debate, this pagan politician intervened and decided in favor of those who said that Jesus was God. But why? Certainly not because of any Biblical conviction. “Constantine had basically no understanding whatsoever of the questions that were being asked in Greek theology,” says A Short History of Christian Doctrine. What he did understand was that religious division was a threat to his empire, and he wanted to solidify his domain.

None of the bishops at Nicaea promoted a Trinity, however. They decided only the nature of Jesus but not the role of the holy spirit. If a Trinity had been a clear Bible truth, should they not have proposed it at that time?

Further Development

AFTER Nicaea, debates on the subject continued for decades. Those who believed that Jesus was not equal to God even came back into favor for a time. But later Emperor Theodosius decided against them. He established the creed of the Council of Nicaea as the standard for his realm and convened the Council of Constantinople in 381 C.E. to clarify the formula.

That council agreed to place the holy spirit on the same level as God and Christ. For the first time, Christendom’s Trinity began to come into focus.

Yet, even after the Council of Constantinople, the Trinity did not become a widely accepted creed. Many opposed it and thus brought on themselves violent persecution. It was only in later centuries that the Trinity was formulated into set creeds. The Encyclopedia Americana notes: “The full development of Trinitarianism took place in the West, in the Scholasticism of the Middle Ages, when an explanation was undertaken in terms of philosophy and psychology.”

The Athanasian Creed

THE Trinity was defined more fully in the Athanasian Creed. Athanasius was a clergyman who supported Constantine at Nicaea. The creed that bears his name declares: “We worship one God in Trinity . . . The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet they are not three gods, but one God.”

Well-informed scholars agree, however, that Athanasius did not compose this creed. The New Encyclopædia Britannica comments: “The creed was unknown to the Eastern Church until the 12th century. Since the 17th century, scholars have generally agreed that the Athanasian Creed was not written by Athanasius (died 373) but was probably composed in southern France during the 5th century. . . . The creed’s influence seems to have been primarily in southern France and Spain in the 6th and 7th centuries. It was used in the liturgy of the church in Germany in the 9th century and somewhat later in Rome.”

So it took centuries from the time of Christ for the Trinity to become widely accepted in Christendom. And in all of this, what guided the decisions? Was it the Word of God, or was it clerical and political considerations? In Origin and Evolution of Religion, E. W. Hopkins answers: “The final orthodox definition of the trinity was largely a matter of church politics.”

Apostasy Foretold

THIS disreputable history of the Trinity fits in with what Jesus and his apostles foretold would follow their time. They said that there would be an apostasy, a deviation, a falling away from true worship until Christ’s return, when true worship would be restored before God’s day of destruction of this system of things.

Regarding that “day,” the apostle Paul said: “It will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 7) Later, he foretold: “When I have gone fierce wolves will invade you and will have no mercy on the flock. Even from your own ranks there will be men coming forward with a travesty of the truth on their lips to induce the disciples to follow them.” (Acts 20:29, 30, JB) Other disciples of Jesus also wrote of this apostasy with its ‘lawless’ clergy class.—See, for example, 2 Peter 2:1; 1 John 4:1-3; Jude 3, 4.

Paul also wrote: “The time is sure to come when, far from being content with sound teaching, people will be avid for the latest novelty and collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes; and then, instead of listening to the truth, they will turn to myths.”—2 Timothy 4:3, 4, JB.

Jesus himself explained what was behind this falling away from true worship. He said that he had sowed good seeds but that the enemy, Satan, would oversow the field with weeds. So along with the first blades of wheat, the weeds appeared also. Thus, a deviation from pure Christianity was to be expected until the harvest, when Christ would set matters right. (Matthew 13:24-43) The Encyclopedia Americana comments: “Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.” Where, then, did this deviation originate?—1 Timothy 1:6.

What Influenced It

THROUGHOUT the ancient world, as far back as Babylonia, the worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads, was common. That influence was also prevalent in Egypt, Greece, and Rome in the centuries before, during, and after Christ. And after the death of the apostles, such pagan beliefs began to invade Christianity.

Historian Will Durant observed: “Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. . . . From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity.” And in the book Egyptian Religion, Siegfried Morenz notes: “The trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians . . . Three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology.”

Thus, in Alexandria, Egypt, churchmen of the late third and early fourth centuries, such as Athanasius, reflected this influence as they formulated ideas that led to the Trinity. Their own influence spread, so that Morenz considers “Alexandrian theology as the intermediary between the Egyptian religious heritage and Christianity.”

In the preface to Edward Gibbon’s History of Christianity, we read: “If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism of the first Christians . . . was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief.”

A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge notes that many say that the Trinity “is a corruption borrowed from the heathen religions, and ingrafted on the Christian faith.” And The Paganism in Our Christianity declares: “The origin of the [Trinity] is entirely pagan.”

That is why, in the Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics, James Hastings wrote: “In Indian religion, e.g., we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahmā, Siva, and Viṣṇu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus . . . Nor is it only in historical religions that we find God viewed as a Trinity. One recalls in particular the Neo-Platonic view of the Supreme or Ultimate Reality,” which is “triadically represented.” What does the Greek philosopher Plato have to do with the Trinity?

Platonism

PLATO, it is thought, lived from 428 to 347 before Christ. While he did not teach the Trinity in its present form, his philosophies paved the way for it. Later, philosophical movements that included triadic beliefs sprang up, and these were influenced by Plato’s ideas of God and nature.

The French Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (New Universal Dictionary) says of Plato’s influence: “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge shows the influence of this Greek philosophy: “The doctrines of the Logos and the Trinity received their shape from Greek Fathers, who . . . were much influenced, directly or indirectly, by the Platonic philosophy . . . That errors and corruptions crept into the Church from this source can not be denied.”

The Church of the First Three Centuries says: “The doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation; . . . it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures; . . . it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity, through the hands of the Platonizing Fathers.”

By the end of the third century C.E., “Christianity” and the new Platonic philosophies became inseparably united. As Adolf Harnack states in Outlines of the History of Dogma, church doctrine became “firmly rooted in the soil of Hellenism [pagan Greek thought]. Thereby it became a mystery to the great majority of Christians.”

The church claimed that its new doctrines were based on the Bible. But Harnack says: “In reality it legitimized in its midst the Hellenic speculation, the superstitious views and customs of pagan mystery-worship.”

In the book A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton says of the Trinity: “We can trace the history of this doctrine, and discover its source, not in the Christian revelation, but in the Platonic philosophy . . . The Trinity is not a doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, but a fiction of the school of the later Platonists.”

Thus, in the fourth century C.E., the apostasy foretold by Jesus and the apostles came into full bloom. Development of the Trinity was just one evidence of this. The apostate churches also began embracing other pagan ideas, such as hellfire, immortality of the soul, and idolatry. Spiritually speaking, Christendom had entered its foretold dark ages, dominated by a growing “man of lawlessness” clergy class.—2 Thessalonians 2:3, 7.

Why Did God’s Prophets Not Teach It?

WHY, for thousands of years, did none of God’s prophets teach his people about the Trinity? At the latest, would Jesus not use his ability as the Great Teacher to make the Trinity clear to his followers? Would God inspire hundreds of pages of Scripture and yet not use any of this instruction to teach the Trinity if it were the “central doctrine” of faith?

Are Christians to believe that centuries after Christ and after having inspired the writing of the Bible, God would back the formulation of a doctrine that was unknown to his servants for thousands of years, one that is an “inscrutable mystery” “beyond the grasp of human reason,” one that admittedly had a pagan background and was “largely a matter of church politics”?

The testimony of history is clear: The Trinity teaching is a deviation from the truth, an apostatizing from it.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Horus(m): 1:06pm On Mar 28, 2009
If Jesus Is God Who Was Jesus Calling On In Matthews 27:46, When He Said Eli, Eli Lama Sabachtani, My God, My God Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?
Re: Is Jesus God? by IDINRETE: 1:16pm On Mar 28, 2009
Horus:

If Jesus Is God Who Was Jesus Calling On In Matthews 27:46, When He Said Eli, Eli Lama Sabachtani, My God, My God Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?


very simple, he was calling unto himself saying:

me! me! why has thou forsaken me grin grin grin grin
Re: Is Jesus God? by okgerald(m): 7:58pm On Mar 29, 2009
Jesus acepts God as his lord and personal saviour. He called on him on the cross although i dont believe that guy on the cross was Jesus. Jesus even prayed to God in the bible and also said he doesnt know the hour that only God knows the hour. Jesus is proud to be Gods serant.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Goshen360(m): 3:32am On Dec 08, 2011
@ poster, I do not intend to debate this post with you because the canal man cannot understand spiritual things. There is God, Jesus the son of GOD and the Holy Spirit and these three is GOD. They are three as UNITS but GOD as UNITY. Go to Amoeba, how it reproduces and learn the greatness of God. Also learn from yourself as a man: you are a spirit, you have a soul and living in body(flesh), How much more our God and creator. God can manifest Himself into whatever He pleases as He is Omnipresent, everywhere at the same time.
Re: Is Jesus God? by sunkoye: 9:08pm On Feb 21, 2012
JESUS IS GOD
Throughout the Scriptures Jesus Christ is not only referred to as the Son of God, but also is clearly shown to be God Himself.

   I Am 


(Exodus 3:14)

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM' has sent me to you. "
(John 8:58)

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid Himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
 
Mighty/Almighty 


(Isaiah 9:6)

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.
(Isaiah 10:21)

A remnant will return, a remnant of Jacob will return to the Mighty God.
(Matthew 28:18)

"All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me."
(Revelation 1:cool

I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
 
King of kings and Lord of lords 


(1 Timothy 6:13-15)

In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time - God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. (for further reference to God as King of kings, see Ps 136:3 and Deut 10:17)
(Revelation 17:14)

They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
Alpha and Omega / First and Last



(Revelation 1:7-cool

Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen. "I am the Alpha and Omega," says the Lord God, " who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
(Revelation1:17-18)

,  "I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One, I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!
(Revelation 22:12-13)

"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
(Revelation 22:20)

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
(Revelation 2:cool

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.
Isaiah 48:12)

"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last."
(Isaiah 44:6)

"This is what the Lord says - Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."
(Isaiah 43:10-11)

"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior."


In Revelation 1:7-8, the Lord God (Jehovah) states He is the Alpha and Omega. Yet in that same verse the speaker, God (Jehovah), says He was pierced. Who was it that was actually pierced? Jesus. In Revelation 22:12-20 it is Jesus who claims He is the Alpha and Omega. In Isaiah 48:12 and 44:6 God, Jehovah says He is the first and the last. Yet again in Revelation 2:8, Jesus says He is the first and the last. Finally, Both God, Jehovah, and Jesus are described as "coming soon".



   The Scriptures Confirm 


(John 5:39-40)

"You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
(John 5:46)

If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.
In the old testament, Moses was clearly writing about The Lord God (Jehovah). Yet Jesus clearly states Moses was writing about himself.

     Cannot see God's face and live



(Exodus 33:20)

"But", he said (God speaking to Moses), "You cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
(Numbers 12:6-cool

(God speaking to Aaron and Miriam)
"When a prophet of the Lord is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams. But this is not true of my servant Moses; he is faithful in all my house. With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the Lord.
God says no one may see His face and live. Yet He also says He speaks to Moses "face to face". How can this be? We cannot see God the father but we can see God the son, Jesus, God manifested in flesh. Jesus said Moses wrote about Him, Moses saw Him, Moses talked to Him.

     Glory of the Lord



(Isaiah 42:cool

"I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols."
(Isaiah 40:5)

"And the glory of the Lord will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the Lord has spoken."
   Jesus was in the wilderness with the Israelites



(1 Corinthians 10:1-4)

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
(Hebrews 11:24-26)

By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time. He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.
(Jude 1:5)

Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
     The one they pierced 


(Zechariah 12:10)

"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son."
     30 pieces of silver 


(Zechariah 11:12-13)

I told them, "if you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potter" - the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord to the potter.
(Matthew 26:14)

Then one of the Twelve - the one called Judas Iscariot - went to the chief priests and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins.
      Salvation 


(Isaiah 43:11)

"I, even I, am the Lord Jehovah, and apart from me there is no Savior."
(Acts 4:12)

Salvation is found in no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
This Scripture is referring to Jesus, even though in Isaiah Scriptures clearly say no other name but Jehovah God can save us.

     Forgiveness of Sin 


(Isaiah 43:25)

I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.
(Mark 2:5-7)

When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven". Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves "Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
      God says it was His blood that was shed 


(Acts 20:28)

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
(2 Peter 2:1)

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them - bringing swift destruction on themselves.
     Jesus claims Himself to be God. 


When Philip asked Jesus, "show us the Father, " Jesus replied, 

(John 14:9)

"Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."
(John 20:28)

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus did not rebuke him.
     Jesus is the Creator (the beginning) 


(Colossians 1:15-17)

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
(Isaiah 44:24)

"This is what the Lord says - your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb; I am the Lord, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, 
(Genesis 1:1)

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Clearly in Genesis, we are told God is the Creator. However in Colossians, clearly Jesus is identified as the Creator. Also note in Gen. 1:26, God refers to us.

(John 1:1)

In the beginning was the Word, 
The Greek word used in both Genesis and John is en arche.

      Eternal 


(Micah 5:2)

"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose going forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity."
The Hebrew word here for "eternity" is owlam. No creature is ever described with this word - only God. It is used of YHWH in Psalm 90:2. Yet here it is being used in a passage clearly referring to Jesus. Jesus is eternal.

     Full Deity 


(Colossians 2:9)

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.
(1 Timothy 1:15-17)

Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners - of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
In Timothy 1:15-17, Paul is speaking of Jesus. Since he continues in the very next sentence in the same paragraph "Now to the King, , it stands to reason Paul is still speaking of Jesus.

     Worship 


(Matthew 28:17)

And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshipped Him.
(Philippians 2:5-11)

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death - even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus very knee should bow, in heaven and on earth tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Isaiah 45:22-23)

"Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked; Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear."
 

Thomas said to Him" my Lord and my God"

Peter said to Him.", You know ALL THINGS"

.Heb. 1:8 - "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions."
Re: Is Jesus God? by bsjay(m): 1:22am On Dec 28, 2014
Jaybaba:
Dear Nairalanders,
No matter what we think or how we reason, the truth remains the same:
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
There are so many other scriptures that point and agree on trinity, This one though speaks about God being Jesus himself.
But we must not confuse trinity to mean Three Gods in One like we were taught to believe as children. We now know today that it is One God in three manifestations, as God the Father and Creator of the Universe. As the Son of God who is the saviour and redeemer of the world. He also manifest today (the latter days as the Holy Spirit of God).

Take this Gospel and you will be blessed by it in the name of Jesus.
I quote you because you sound knowledgeable. Before the creation of Spiritual Substantiality, God was One! When this creation was to begin, God severed a Part of Himself and placed It at the boundary of the Divine facing the void in order to radiate light into it before God issued the decree "let there be light". With this act, God started acting in Two Folds. 1 God the Father in His Unsubstantiality and as the highest and starting point of all that exist down through Divine Realms. 2 God the Holy Spirit(Imanuel). The eternal Mediator between God and His work. The starting point of all that exist in Spiritual Creation down to the earth. At the time man as part of God's work sinned and was at the verge of destruction, out of love, God severed another Part of Himself, this time a Part of His Love and incarnated It in the body of flesh and blood in order to bring help to erring mankind in the word that He Himself was and is. Hence Jesus of Nazareth. Making the Holy Trinity. Jesus is the Inborn Son of God because He came directly from God and thus returned to Him after His mission of help. He is the Love of God. While the Holy Spirit is the Outborn Son of God because He remains permanently detached from God and yet directly connected to Him. Hence His name (Imanuel) cos He alone is with man in Creation and also why He is called the (Son of Man) meaning, that Son of God through Whom man came into existence. He is the Will and Justice of God. He is the one Jesus called the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit, the Son of Man. His name is Imanuel!
Re: Is Jesus God? by bsjay(m): 1:33am On Dec 28, 2014
Jaybaba:
Dear Nairalanders,
No matter what we think or how we reason, the truth remains the same:
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
There are so many other scriptures that point and agree on trinity, This one though speaks about God being Jesus himself.
But we must not confuse trinity to mean Three Gods in One like we were taught to believe as children. We now know today that it is One God in three manifestations, as God the Father and Creator of the Universe. As the Son of God who is the saviour and redeemer of the world. He also manifest today (the latter days as the Holy Spirit of God).

Take this Gospel and you will be blessed by it in the name of Jesus.
I quote you because you sound knowledgeable. Before the creation of Spiritual Substantiality, God was One! When this creation was to begin, God severed a Part of Himself and placed It at the boundary of the Divine facing the void in order to radiate light into it before God issued the decree "let there be light". With this act, God started acting in Two Folds. 1 God the Father in His Unsubstantiality and as the highest and starting point of all that exist down through Divine Realms. 2 God the Holy Spirit(Imanuel). The eternal Mediator between God and His work. The starting point of all that exist in Spiritual Creation down to the earth. At the time man as part of God's work sinned and was at the verge of destruction, out of love, God severed another Part of Himself, this time a Part of His Love and incarnated It in the body of flesh and blood in order to bring help to erring mankind in the word that He Himself was and is. Hence Jesus of Nazareth. Making the Holy Trinity. Jesus is the Inborn Son of God because He came directly from God and thus returned to Him after His mission of help. He is the Love of God. While the Holy Spirit is the Outborn Son of God because He remains permanently detached from God and yet directly connected to Him. Hence His name (Imanuel) cos He alone is with man in Creation and also why He is called the (Son of Man) meaning, that Son of God through Whom man came into existence. He is the Will and Justice of God. He is the one Jesus called the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit, the Son of Man. His name is Imanuel!

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