To all, it is not enough to label an entity a label you desire, except there is a 100% proof, without a single proof to the contrary.

Eloi, is a god to the Atheist, but a True God to believers in existence of true God, because all of these known as creation does not just happen to be accidental, because it is too complex and very orderly. Even the idolaters know that there is a true God, except that they have a god, which they created, seen and felt, heard in most cases (can eat, etc), and not all of them are carvings, acting as mediator to those who believe in it.

However the True God is not created, rather He is the Creator, completely different and separate from the creations nothing is onto like Him. But Jesus has a beginning as far as being the "word", came to existence at best when the True God spoke, or at the absolute truth, when his mother was given the news of his impending birth. This makes him a creation.

But the True God does have succession of Messengers and prophets to mankind, mainly localized, regionalised, or national or tribal in all cases, except the last one: The Christians argue that Jesus was it, with post crucifixion argument, completely against the pre crucifixion many statement from Jesus making his ministry a tribal one exclusively for the Children of israel, while the emphasise was laid on "the lost" group among them.


The true God has Moses and many other prophets, Noah among them. Now who were the messengers and Prophets of God/god Jesus, for he should not be his own Messenger or prophet, because that will take him down to the same position that Buddha, making his own personal argument face to face at best, or some people just made him god, because of his message, without him saying so! I see the same process for the Christians, so I want them to extricate themselves in this case.


We see that the true God can not be seen by anyone, except such a person dies off, at least the physical death and i dare add the spiritual death to it, so that their place for the sight is Hell fire! But Jesus was seen, with naked eyes, for over 30 years, as a helpless child all he way through his messengership, and according to the accounts, even until he was lifted up.

Finally, the True God is always Ever Living, while Jesus was killed by the Jews the same people who killed his cousin by beheading the most gentle among the prophets of the Children of Israel, and no one complained about him, except the woman who had him beheaded for a simple "dance", while Jesus was hung, instead.


With all of these coupled with the fact that Jesus completely fit man and mankind in every respect, please who was the messenger of God like Moses for Jesus, and who was the son of God if God has one (I know that He does not have any, but just trying to awake the sleepy minds of the disbelievers), like Jesus for the God Jesus?


Remember that the prophet/messenger Moses was not the same for son Jesus to The Christian God, so the two situation must be different for God Jesus?

Let me start by introducing Jesus to you.

The birth, life and death of Jesus have been programmed as recorded in the bible. And the reason for his been born are also documented even before it all happened. The bible is made up of old and new testament. The Old Testament starts from Genesis to Malachi. While the New Testament starts from The Gospel as narrated by Matthew to the Revelations by John. The Old Testament contains the Law and the prophesies. Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Moses, Samuel, Isaiah, Elijah, David, Elisha, Daniel etc are some of the old testament prophets. God showed them different aspect or things about Jesus that when we put everything together , we could only conclude that they are divine. For we ask, how it that Jesus fulfilled exactly all these things written many years before his birth. For instance, being born in Bethlehem of Judea as prophesied by Prophet Micah.

He would be born in Bethlehem.

Micah 5:2

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small
among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are
from of old, from ancient times.”




He would be born of a virgin.

Isaiah 7:14

“Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The
virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son,
and will call him Immanuel.”

His lineage
Genesis 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, Nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, Until Shiloh come: And unto him shall the obedience of the peoples be.


His Life:


He was not violent
Isaiah 53:7-8
7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. 8By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who [among them] considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke [was due]?


Isaiah 42:1-3
1Behold, my servant, whom I uphold; my chosen, in whom my soul delighteth: I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street. 3A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth. 4He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.


His Death

Daniel 9-26
26And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.



The prophesies are so many. Moreover, it takes one who has God’s spirit to understand what the spirit is saying. If you have any question concerning Jesus deity, please ask them.

@ dexmond : true talk. MAY D LORD JESUS BLESS U

There is no such Prophecy, the christian editted and forced their word in it, why don't the jewish book have all this if u are truthful, atleast we know that u stole the OT from them. If ur pastors re lying should u be quiet

@Abuzola

You may not have heard about The Isaiah scrolls nor the cuneiform cylinder. Have you carried out a research on it? Don't rely on heresay.If christians edited there own old testament. The Jews would not edit theirs. Moreover, a good number of them don't believe that Jesus is the promised messiah. If it so, we should expect there own copy of the book to contain a different thing all together. Unfortunately, it is not like that. If Jesus says he is at the center of humanity, and there are proofs to show it, know that you don't have a cloak to cover yourself anymore.

Luke 12:47-48

And that servant, who knew his lord’s will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes];
but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. And to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom they commit much, of him will they ask the more.

Yap, the jewish believe that a God cannot be killed, hence they crucified the so called God in the way the use to crucified blasphemers. And their scripture is far different from what ur paul stole and editted. Which book will you consider good, pirated or original ? Did jesus narrated the OT to you

@abuzola, Thank God you are now believing in the death of the Messiah instead of that false account given in the koran that Judas was the one crucified. I believe Jesus is gradually leading you to redemption.

@ olabs

if you consider it appropriate to label Jesus as a prophet. . .why is it inappropriate to label allah as a DEMON!?

@Noetic15: Allah does not say anywhere in the Quran, that He is a Demon. But Jesus said in the pages of the Bible that he was a prophet. I have not said anything that those who followed Jesus, and knew him more than you or I did not say. The disciples said that he was a Servant. Now correct them, not me. I simply regurgitate what was said by these noble men. You can present your argument against what they say.

There is no Muslim that will say that Allah is a Demon. You know that already! If you know differenet, lets hear it. Just like every community, the Makkan's Creator; Allah, is the Ibadan's Creator; Olorun. Where has Demon entered the conversation, now?



@dexmond:

Luke 12:47-48

And that servant, who knew his lord’s will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes];
but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. And to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom they commit much, of him will they ask the more.

This is a good argument to support the Servantry of Jesus to his Lord God the Creator, and not anything else! Thank you.

olabowale:

@Noetic15: Allah does not say anywhere in the Quran, that He is a Demon. But Jesus said in the pages of the Bible that he was a prophet. I have not said anything that those who followed Jesus, and knew him more than you or I did not say. The disciples said that he was a Servant. Now correct them, not me. I simply regurgitate what was said by these noble men. You can present your argument against what they say.

There is no Muslim that will say that Allah is a Demon. You know that already! If you know differenet, lets hear it. Just like every community, the Makkan's Creator; Allah, is the Ibadan's Creator; Olorun. Where has Demon entered the conversation, now?



@dexmond:This is a good argument to support the Servantry of Jesus to his Lord God the Creator, and not anything else! Thank you.

1. why do u rely on the "corrupt" bible to make ur case. Jesus clearly stated in the bible that He is the Son of God.

2. We have both analysed and agreed that allah is not the God of the OT. . . . .if allah is not the God of the OT, who then is allah.
Allah is subsequently a DEMON. . . . . .

@dexmond:

Isaiah 42:1-3
1Behold, my servant, whom I uphold; my chosen, in whom my soul delighteth: I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street. 3A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth. 4He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.

And this also support the statement that Jesus was a servant! But then, how is it possible that he was to bring justice to the GENTILES when he uphold no single justice, except his statement to his people alone, concerning the issue of adultery which they rejected from him, as it opposed the Mosaic law which he said that he was going to fulfil and admonished others to live by it, on one hand and on the other hand saying that he was but sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

The only time he made any pronouncement after this was give to ceasar whats ceasar's and to God whats God's, and not to me whats mine as God! We need to know that he was advising his people who did not want to pay the Jizya or taxes levied on them by the pagan idolator Rome! Where is any proof that he was but a human, a son, a prophet?

And reading all the other Biblical verses in the same column, above, Mr. dexmond, the nonviolence qualities are more suited on Job who suffered much, or John who was finally beheaded than Jesus who as a youth showed signs of anger by overturning the table of the money changers, declaring later that he came with war and not peace and finally asking people to buy swords  And whats the purpose of thiese swords, if I may ask?

To call him a lamb is injustice to those who are actual lambs; Job, Zachariah and his son John, are better examples. Can you say they offended or caustic to anyone or anything?

@Noetic15: « #9 on: Today at 02:19:38 PM »

1. why do u rely on the "corrupt" bible to make your case. Jesus clearly stated in the bible that He is the Son of God.

To show your misunderstanding for one, since from it, I can point to him and his disciples who are the best authorities about his true self, more than Paul and or you, Noetic15, that you are wrong, since he was referred as man, prophet, servant! But you stubbornly call him God, but today you call him son of God! Noetic15, make up your mind, instead of going from pillar to post!

2. We have both analysed and agreed that allah is not the God of the OT. . . . .if allah is not the God of the OT, who then is allah.
Allah is subsequently a DEMON. . . . . .

You analysed and agreed with yourself, for the yorubas have God, and that God is the same Who created the everyone in the OT, and beyond and all that was before! The yorubas call that God in English Olorun in yoruba, Allah in arabia, and Eloi in Syriac! And the Quran says that when you are to begin recitation of Quran you seek the protection of Allah against the accursed Demon. Will say this if He is the Demon? Do you seek to deprive yourself authority over anything by keeping it in safety with you in your authority against your authority, especially if you an imposingly evil and greedy authority? That would have been the case if Allah is Demon, then this is not so, because Allah is Merciful, Compassionate, Forgiving, All encompassing. None of these is a value of Demon, unless you know other things about the Demon, more than humans know?

A true God can never die, not like xtians god.

chakula:

A true God can never die, not like xtians god.

Jesus is the resurrection and the life

Jesus is the resurrection and the life
[quote][/quote]

i reason with you that jesus is going to Revitalization again, but my question is who died on cross? please explain.

As a nominal muslim, I have come to realize that christianity is a living religion with their God, Yahweh taking constant interest in their affairs when necessary. Read Phillipians 2:6-11 to see the true nature of christ, at the mention of his name all powers must bow including allah wherever he may be.
JOHN 17:1-5 Note here that this is Christ's prayer before His arrest. And note that Christ says that He was with God before the world began.
JOHN 5:18-27 - Note here that Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of God about 10 times.
JOHN 8:36, JOHN 10:36, JOHN 11:4
MATT 17:5 - GOD HIMSELF calls Jesus His Son.
MATT 22:2 - Jesus alludes to Himself as the King's Son
MATT 26:63,64 - Jesus answers Pilate that he is the Son of God.



LUKE 3:22 - Again GOD HIMSELF calls Jesus His Son.



LUKE 1:35 - Even the Angel in talking to Mary says that her son will be the Son of God.

The Life of Jesus - Is Jesus God?

He lived in obscurity until He was thirty, and then began a public ministry that lasted three years. It was destined to change the course of history. He was a kindly person and we're told that "the common people heard Him gladly." And, "He taught as One who had authority, and not as their teachers of the Law."1

It soon became apparent, however, that He was making shocking and startling statements about Himself. He began to identify Himself as far more than a remarkable teacher or prophet. He began to say clearly that He was God. He made His identity the focal point of His teaching. The all-important question He put to those who followed Him was, "Who do you say I am?" When Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God"2, Jesus was not shocked, nor did He rebuke Peter. On the contrary, He commended him!

He made the claim explicitly, and His hearers got the full impact of His words. We are told, "The Jews tried all the harder to kill Him; not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."3

On another occasion he said, "I and My Father are One." Immediately the Jews wanted to stone Him. He asked them for which good work they wanted to kill Him. They replied, "We are not stoning You for any of these but for blasphemy, because You, a mere man, claim to be God."4
The Life of Jesus - His Identity Revealed

When a paralyzed man was let down through the roof wanting to be healed by Him, He said, "Son, your sins are forgiven you." This caused a great to-do among the religious leaders, who said in their hearts, "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

At the critical moment when His life was at stake, the high priest put the question to Him directly: "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"

"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

The high priest tore his clothes. "Why do we need any more witnesses?" he asked. "You have heard the blasphemy."5

So close was His connection with God that He equated a person's attitude to Himself with the person's attitude toward God. Thus, to know Him was to know God.6 To see Him was to see God.7 To believe in Him was to believe in God.8 To receive Him was to receive God.9 To hate Him was to hate God.10 And to honor Him was to honor God.11

The Life of Jesus - Four Possible Explanations
“As we face the claims of Christ, there are only four possibilities. He was either a liar, a lunatic, a legend, or the Truth.”

As we face the claims of Christ, there are only four possibilities. He was either a liar, a lunatic, a legend, or the Truth. If we say He is not the Truth, we are automatically affirming one of the other three alternatives, whether we realize it or not.

(1) One possibility is that Jesus lied when He said He was God -- that He knew He was not God, but deliberately deceived His hearers to lend authority to His teaching. Few, if any, seriously hold this position. Even those who deny His deity affirm that He was a great moral teacher. They fail to realize those two statements are a contradiction. Jesus could hardly be a great moral teacher if, on the most crucial point of His teaching -- His identity -- He was a deliberate liar.

(2) A kinder, though no less shocking possibility, is that He was sincere but self-deceived. We have a name for a person today who thinks he is God. That name is lunatic, and it certainly would apply to Christ if He were deceived on this all-important issue. But as we look at the life of Christ, we see no evidence of the abnormality and imbalance we find in a deranged person. Rather, we find the greatest composure under pressure.

(3) The third alternative is that all of the talk about His claiming to be God is a legend -- that what actually happened was that His enthusiastic followers, in the third and fourth centuries, put words into His mouth He would have been shocked to hear. Were He to return, He would immediately repudiate them.

The legend theory has been significantly refuted by many discoveries of modern archeology. These have conclusively shown that the four biographies of Christ were written within the lifetime of contemporaries of Christ. Some time ago Dr. William F. Albright, world-famous archaeologist now retired from Johns Hopkins University, said that there was no reason to believe that any of the Gospels were written later than A.D. 70. For a mere legend about Christ, in the form of the Gospel, to have gained the circulation and to have had the impact it had, without one shred of basis in fact, is incredible.

For this to have happened would be as fantastic as for someone in our own time to write a biography of the late John F. Kennedy and in it say he claimed to be God, to forgive people's sins, and to have risen from the dead. Such a story is so wild it would never get off the ground because there are still too many people around who knew Kennedy. The legend theory does not hold water in the light of the early date of the Gospel manuscripts.

(4) The only other alternative is that Jesus spoke the truth. From one point of view, however, claims don't mean much. Talk is cheap. Anyone can make claims. There have been others who have claimed to be God. I could claim to be God, and you could claim to be God, but the question all of us must answer is, "What credentials do we bring to substantiate our claim?" In my case it wouldn't take you five minutes to disprove my claim. It probably wouldn't take too much more to dispose of yours. But when it comes to Jesus of Nazareth, it's not so simple. He had the credentials to back up His claim. He said, "Even though you do not believe Me, believe the evidence of the miracles, that you may learn and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."12

NadiaMalik