raphieMontella:

the bolded...
Other species on other planets?

ValentineMary:

There were somethings in science that were once thought impossible to deduce eg the amount of Dark matter but by ingenuous methods we have actually unlocked those. By using already laid down procedures by our predecessors.
Now in the field of religion is there no way we can deducd the existence of this watchman people so claim with analytical method as laid down by predecessors ?

ValentineMary:

The argument of a first cause has been used a lot by theologians but modern science has shown that we can have reactions without actions especially in the quantum world where classical mechanics break down.

ValentineMary:
Over the years theist and atheist have argued about the possibility of us having a conscious watchman who looks over every of our activities. So this thread is for us to discuss how logical it is for us to claim to have a watchman. Pls only matured comments.

Cc Johnnydon22, Seun , Raphiemontella, Dorox, Doctoralien, Lordnicklaus, Shadeyinka, hopefullandlord, Hahn, Dakol, cloudgoddess, Donnffd, Ifenes, et al

raphieMontella:

thats new..
The possibility of such a God watching over and not interfering would be ''if we humans are not alone in the universe''

akintom:



Reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or might be imagined. In a wider definition, reality includes everything that is and has
been , whether or not it is observable or comprehensible . A still broader definition includes everything that has existed, exists, or will exist.
- dictionary.


Science: imagination, abstractions and assumptions are subjected to experiment, if the result confirms the assumption in an overwhelming and reproducible pattern, the ASSUMPTION becomes REALITY (truth, logical and exist).

Religion: imagination, abstractions and assumptions NEVER subjected to EXPERIMENT but CLAIMED to be REALITY (yes it's REALITY IN BROADER DEFINITION, because it finds existence in the mental processes of religious folks. This is possible because human brain functions that way).

Being humanist, conscious watchman (God) is illogical to the extent of scientific realities.

DoctorAlien:


Can you show me a reaction that does not have a cause?

DoctorAlien:


I'm pleased to inform you that nobody has ever observed dark matter. They only speculate about its properties. Suffice it to say that the whole notion of dark matter and dark energy was invented to explain certain phenomena which the whole matter-energy in the universe could not account for.

Religion is different from science, and religion ceases to be religion when you decided to apply skeptical empiricism to it.

Etesam:
I am learning. My problem now is which belief symtem shd i adopt among these? How can I be sure my chioce is accurate?

DeepSight:


Oh dammnn it!

Stop the italics you hear?

They hurt my eyes.

Now - tell me about reactions without actions in the quantum world.

Just a warning - don't you dare bring up virtual particles in a quantum vacuum - no perfect vacuum has ever been shown to exist anywhere - nor can one exist: following the very rational notions that nature abhors a vacuum and that no such thing as nothingness exists. So called virtual particles exist in so called vacuums which contain gaseous pressure. Thus these are not vacuums at all.

It is simple and rational to understand that things that begin or that move require causes or triggers. This flows with everything that we know, observe and have always known and always observed. It is not only irrational and contradictory to suggest the contrary, it is also counter-intuitive.

Do you not see how contradictory it is to even call something a reaction at all, if it is not triggered by a prior action? Why call it a reaction at all then?

And yet this is what you just did.

The truth is that this sort of deceitful so called quantum logic is far more nauseating in logical terms than all religious myths put together - and yet some people feel intellectually superior or more enlightened for spewing such gibberish.

Sad.

Seun:
Just call yourself an atheist and be done with it. 99% of atheists including all the popular names are "agnostic atheists" so it's largely redundant.

Seun:
Just call yourself an atheist and be done with it. 99% of atheists including all the popular names are "agnostic atheists" so it's largely redundant.

ValentineMary:

But is this logical to humans to believe this based on religious concept that are not open to scrutiny ?

Seun:
Just call yourself an atheist and be done with it. 99% of atheists including all the popular names are "agnostic atheists" so it's largely redundant.

iomoge2:
May God give you reasons to believe he exists in Jesus name. Amen.
Even if its extreme reasons.

Etesam:
Having been steeped in religion for 3 decades, how am I to be able to unentangle myself from religious mentality.
Say 'just dont believe' is not enough. I need tutorial.

Seun:
Just call yourself an atheist and be done with it. 99% of atheists including all the popular names are "agnostic atheists" so it's largely redundant.

Seun:
By extreme reasons you mean if God appears at my gate in a pillar of fire and refuses to let anyone enter or leave the compound until he speaks to me, right?

Etesam:
Having been steeped in religion for 3 decades, how am I to be able to unentangle myself from religious mentality.
Say 'just dont believe' is not enough. I need tutorial.

hopefulLandlord:

why do you want to leave "religious mentality"?...

Etesam:
I know I am derailing the thread.
I only wanted a place to obtain credible information.

Etesam:
So you want to enjoy freedom to disbelieve all alone?

Mimzyy:
I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is.
Albert Camus

Cc Seun

Etesam:
So you want to enjoy freedom to disbelieve all alone?

ValentineMary:

There are effects in the quantum world with no known cause. Eg quantum entanglement, quantum tunneling, etc. They just happen.

ValentineMary:

No body has observed dark matter but we can tell it's density by how much it bends space time around it and it's gravitational influence on ordinary matter.

But if we are not to be skeptic about it, how can we deduce its authenticity? and if it is not to be empirically deduced, on what basis is it true?

DoctorAlien:
ValentineMary,

A whole lot is wrong with modern science. The whole idea of dark matter exists because it is assumed that the spacetime is a geniune proposition. Please follow this link to find out that the idea of spacetime is a hoax that not only needs to be immediately retired, but also raises questions about the veracity of what most people hold as "truth" today, supposedly from the stables of science.

Lennycool:

Continue in your delusion but leave science alone. How easily you doubt the procedures that led to the device you now use to campaign for your non existent God, that led to most of the basic amenities you enjoy today.